Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

Cork Trucker

I have asked Jerry Buttimer & Marcia Dalton the following question:

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/1033662785710968832


I won't hold my breath.

AugustusMinimus

It’s alarming how much support Jerry Buttimer is providing them. The road is of huge importance to the city and its staggering that a man looking to get his seat back is pandering to a group of in reality less than 500.

There are 10,000 or more living in Carrigaline alone who are baying for this to be built.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s alarming how much support Jerry Buttimer is providing them. The road is of huge importance to the city and its staggering that a man looking to get his seat back is pandering to a group of in reality less than 500.

There are 10,000 or more living in Carrigaline alone who are baying for this to be built.

What's worse is that his party have repeatedly been promoting the project in Cork, and it's a core element of their Capital Investment Plan

The usual reply is "I support the project but not the routing" even though it has been repeatedly made clear that there are no appropriate alternative routes

MrDerp

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s alarming how much support Jerry Buttimer is providing them. The road is of huge importance to the city and its staggering that a man looking to get his seat back is pandering to a group of in reality less than 500.

There are 10,000 or more living in Carrigaline alone who are baying for this to be built.

It’s a poor miscalculation, but he won’t unseat McGrath, Coveney or Martin and I’d expect SF to hold a seat so it was worth a punt probably.

I’m hoping the silence is telling too, I would have thought there would have been some triumphalist delivery of papers to the high court.

That examiner story was weird claiming they had the funds to proceed. No doubt they spent the money on a retainer for their solicitors, who prepared papers ready to lodge.

However, I’d expect the action to be dependent on receiving a further retainer, which they may not have provided. Otherwise, the solicitors may have advised them they had no case when they dug into the paperwork (at the steering group’s expense)

Cork Trucker

Just been on Facebook and I have been told they HAVE NOT RAISED THE REQUIRED FUNDS for a judicial review but that this may take several days to filter through.

MrDerp

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Just been on Facebook and I have been told they HAVE NOT RAISED THE REQUIRED FUNDS for a judicial review but that this may take several days to filter through.

Will be interesting if donors look for their money back.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s alarming how much support Jerry Buttimer is providing them. The road is of huge importance to the city and its staggering that a man looking to get his seat back is pandering to a group of in reality less than 500.

There are 10,000 or more living in Carrigaline alone who are baying for this to be built.

Buttimer is doing all his can to try and drum up support to get back into the Dail and what better place to target voters than in Rochestown/Douglas.

If the 10,000 number was a reality he would be guaranteed to get back in, but as most who know Cork South Central will know it is the constituency of death.

Martin is a major player and leader of the opposition.

Conveney the current Tanaiste.

McGrath the current finance spokesperson for the opposition

O'Laoghaire is the new kid on the block for Sinn Fein.


How JB thinks he can unseat any of those 4 I will never know unless one of them leaves unexpectedly and is replaced by a virtual unknown.

Cork Trucker

MrDerp wrote: »

Will be interesting if donors look for their money back.

This is where the backlash will really kick in.

How does one prove how much they donated will only fuel the fire.

AugustusMinimus

MrDerp wrote: »

Will be interesting if donors look for their money back.

My thoughts too. Some of it will already to buried in sink solicitor fees and 7% taken as commission on that go fund me website they are using.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

What's worse is that his party have repeatedly been promoting the project in Cork, and it's a core element of their Capital Investment Plan

The usual reply is "I support the project but not the routing" even though it has been repeatedly made clear that there are no appropriate alternative routes

You know yourself he is getting desperate for votes.

The alternative put forward by the group is complete madness and Cork would grind to a halt even outside rush hour.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

My thoughts too. Some of it will already to buried in sink solicitor fees and 7% taken as commission on that go fund me website they are using.

Who was the cute hoor behind the go fund me thingy with the commission attached? They made a nice few quid I would imagine.

Any idea as to the rough guesstimate on legal fees to date for them?

highwaymaniac

They could still seek to make a judicial review application of the Compulsory Purchase Order which is a separate process. The local authority are obliged to send a confirmation notice to each affected landowner and also puplish the confirmation notice in a newspaper within 12 weeks of the ABP decision to confirm the CPO. The 8 weeks for judicial review of the CPO only commences after publication of the notice.

AFAIK they haven't published the notice yet so we could be waiting another 12 weeks approx. I assuming here that they will pass the sufficient interest threshold or find a landowner to route the JR application through.

Having said all that I can't see what legitimate grounds they could come up with. I would be surprised if they got past the application stage to a full hearing. Even if they did I think it very surprised if they were successful in overturning the CPO decision.

kub

My own thoughts on this is, some people were taken in by the spoofers down right lies and drama.
It is one thing for these facebook type people to be liking lies and following rubbish just to be keeping up with the Jonses.
It is however a different matter for these people to be putting their hands in their purses and wallets to throw money at this, it gets serious then and support begins to wain.
Granted as a fellow poster here mentioned witnessing money going into the collection box at the meeting in RPH lately, but i reckon some degree of peer pressure there.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

My own thoughts on this is, some people were taken in by the spoofers down right lies and drama.
It is one thing for these facebook type people to be liking lies and following rubbish just to be keeping up with the Jonses.
It is however a different matter for these people to be putting their hands in their purses and wallets to throw money at this, it gets serious then and support begins to wain.
Granted as a fellow poster here mentioned witnessing money going into the collection box at the meeting in RPH lately, but i reckon some degree of peer pressure there.

People outside the steering group opposing the motorway is one thing, when it comes to people funding this judicial review it is quite another.

You can be guaranteed you will find less people putting money forward than there were opponents in general.

Do you think their next ploy now is to find a landowner who will side with their nonsense and try and use the donations gathered so far to fund an objection to a CPO on the route itself?

I'm still baffled why there wasn't this level of opposition in the 1990's to building the N28 but then again there was no Mount Oval etc.

ianobrien

Well, as someone who has to use the N28 over the past few weeks (my usual route west is closed at Ballygarvin) I pity those who have to use it every day. The time wasted sitting in traffic is crazy. It took me half a hour to get from the Monkstown turn to the Shannonpark Roundabout.

Imagine how much it costs businesses to have drivers sitting in that traffic everyday. Also, imagine the difference it will make to the local roads in the area. At the moment, people are using the local roads as rat runs to avoid the traffic on Carrs Hill and Shannonpark Roundabout.

All I can say is that I hope the Ballygarvin road opens soon so I can leave the current mess behind

AugustusMinimus

ianobrien wrote: »

Well, as someone who has to use the N28 over the past few weeks (my usual route west is closed at Ballygarvin) I pity those who have to use it every day. The time wasted sitting in traffic is crazy. It took me half a hour to get from the Monkstown turn to the Shannonpark Roundabout.

Imagine how much it costs businesses to have drivers sitting in that traffic everyday. Also, imagine the difference it will make to the local roads in the area. At the moment, people are using the local roads as rat runs to avoid the traffic on Carrs Hill and Shannonpark Roundabout.

All I can say is that I hope the Ballygarvin road opens soon so I can leave the current mess behind

Weirdly enough, the Steering Group believes the new road will INCREASE rat run traffic. It’s complete and utter nonsense of course.

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'm still baffled why there wasn't this level of opposition in the 1990's to building the N28 but then again there was no Mount Oval etc.

Facebook didn't exist back then. Spreading lies and polarising the community took a huge amount of time and money in the early 90s. Now Facebook does all that for you, for free, and makes its profit off the ensuing clicks.

Cork Trucker

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Facebook didn't exist back then. Spreading lies and polarising the community took a huge amount of time and money in the early 90s. Now Facebook does all that for you, for free, and makes its profit off the ensuing clicks.

Why didn't they march the streets though? There was printed media back then.

Again yes it involved cost unlike today with Facebook, but they don't appear active at all on twitter with only 16 people following them.

The steering group ship is sinking fast though and no one knows who the captain is that will go down with it.

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Why didn't they march the streets though? There was printed media back then.

Sure, and big important causes that concentrated public opinion (anti-apartheid marches, etc) received lots of attention and funding. But organising such resistance took huge amounts of planning, coordination, time, and, of course, money.

Think about how much effort it would take to organise a march against the M28 without social media - organising and paying for permits, arranging transportation, raising awareness door to door, organising fundraising events etc. Now compare that to sitting at home one evening and typing out a few lines warning about daily chemical truck explosions, or photoshopping a truck overlooking someone's back garden, then putting in a link for donations, and heading off to bed while Facebook directs as many viewers as possible to your page.

We can both be thankful though that the steering group appears to have failed in its attempt to delay the M28.

kub

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Why didn't they march the streets though? There was printed media back then.

Again yes it involved cost unlike today with Facebook, but they don't appear active at all on twitter with only 16 people following them.

The steering group ship is sinking fast though and no one knows who the captain is that will go down with it.

Back then there were cows in the fields where Mount Oval is now and indeed in most of the housing estates up that way.
Most of the spoofers are blown in's, when the Mulcon Valley ( N28 ) project was being undertaken in the early 90's people welcomed the development. These same people were residents up that very area where these bluffers now reside, but long term residents.
These long term residents welcome this vital infrastructure.

JohnC.

An article gone up about the high court challenge being launched. Adjourned until later this week.

Kevwoody

Hmm.

The barristers name is Collins, same surname as the partner of the steering groups chairman.

I wonder have they got someone to take it on for no charge?

kub

Now we know, thank you.

So it is environmental stuff and it seems they are grasping at straws.

Anyway the sooner this farce is over the better.
Now they are dealing with the High Court and unlike their Facebook followers there will be no bluffing accepted there.

Cork Trucker

If the barrister is a relation of the lady who is the partner of the chairman I reckon it will be taken on for free.

Essentially going by the back door as no mention has been made of the monies raised via various methods.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

Now we know, thank you.

So it is environmental stuff and it seems they are grasping at straws.

Anyway the sooner this farce is over the better.
Now they are dealing with the High Court and unlike their Facebook followers there will be no bluffing accepted there.

Will it be the same judge on the next occasion?

I know Judge Peter Charleton never took any rubbish from anyone.

Aontachtoir

kub wrote: »

Now we know, thank you.

So it is environmental stuff and it seems they are grasping at straws.

Anyway the sooner this farce is over the better.
Now they are dealing with the High Court and unlike their Facebook followers there will be no bluffing accepted there.

Start the clock. If it's like the Apple Athenry project we'll still all be here in two years time waiting for the Supreme Court to confirm the findings of the Court of Appeal and the High Court that ABP acted correctly...

Cork Trucker

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Start the clock. If it's like the Apple Athenry project we'll still all be here in two years time waiting for the Supreme Court to confirm the findings of the Court of Appeal and the High Court that ABP acted correctly...

They said they'll take it to Europe. How long will that take? about another 7 years from now to then?

kub

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Start the clock. If it's like the Apple Athenry project we'll still all be here in two years time waiting for the Supreme Court to confirm the findings of the Court of Appeal and the High Court that ABP acted correctly...

I hope that the EU is still prepared to pay for this road after this pointless exercise is over.
In recent Brexit comments by the EU it specifically said that ferry and trade links would be concentrated from Dublin and Cork ports. Obviously this farce could very well see this becoming Dublin and Rosslare.

D Trent

http://www.thejournal.ie/cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-plan-4204611-Aug2018/

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

They said they'll take it to Europe. How long will that take? about another 7 years from now to then?

Don't know to be honest. It can take years. The €13bn Apple tax finding was appealed back in 2016 and isn't due to be heard for another two to three years I believe.

My layperson understanding is that the Steering Group need High Court permission to appeal to Luxembourg. I don't know what type of bar has to be reached to get that permission.

Let's hope the High Court shut them down, but if they have a pet barrister working for free then I don't see what's stopping them appealing every last step, over and over all the way to the Supreme Court and then on to Europe.