Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

facehugger99

It's absolutely crazy in this country how small groups of people are able to frustrate and delay strategic national infrastructure by months/years.

namloc1980

NIMBYs around the country will be reinvigorated by the Metrolink farce. Here we go again

Topgear on Dave

Interesting report from Paschal Sheehy on this on Morning Ireland this morning.

Its coming as close as 3 metres to some houses apparently. Im not surprised they are annoyed.

Traffic, air and noise pollution, industrial traffic passing through a residential area.

is_that_so

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Interesting report from Paschal Sheehy on this on Morning Ireland this morning.

Its coming as close as 3 metres to some houses apparently. Im not surprised they are annoyed.

Traffic, air and noise pollution, industrial traffic passing through a residential area.

Whatever about the pollution, the noise you get used to, bizarrely. Lived very close to a motorway for a year and the lack of noise used to wake me up. As for the objection it does sound more like anywhere but here. I'd assume there would some kind of noise reduction measures.

kub

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Interesting report from Paschal Sheehy on this on Morning Ireland this morning.

Its coming as close as 3 metres to some houses apparently. Im not surprised they are annoyed.

Traffic, air and noise pollution, industrial traffic passing through a residential area.

Where did the 8 lane motorway cone from? As mentioned by that Newlyn Vale resident.
I wonder do these nice folk think that the existing N28 will be closed down or something like that because they certainly had lots to say about the existing road.

I also had to laugh at Harringtons comment about the M28 being dreamed up during the drunken times of the Celtic Tiger, most of the housing estates up that way were also dreamed of and built during that era.

Baldilocks

Can you please post a link to the article.

The steering group have been claiming that the 10,000 people in the area are all aligned with their view of the world......
The marches through Douglas/Rochestown have been powerful - Oh wait, that never happened.

namloc1980

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Interesting report from Paschal Sheehy on this on Morning Ireland this morning.

Its coming as close as 3 metres to some houses apparently. Im not surprised they are annoyed.

Traffic, air and noise pollution, industrial traffic passing through a residential area.

The existing road, which is heavily trafficked with vehicles going to the port and pharma factories, ALREADY comes as close as 3m to sone houses. It's just sensationalism by the NIMBYs involved to come out and act like this road is being transported in from outer space to their quiet NIMBY neighborhood.

hans aus dtschl

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Interesting report from Paschal Sheehy on this on Morning Ireland this morning.

Its coming as close as 3 metres to some houses apparently. Im not surprised they are annoyed.

AFAIK existing traffic is as close to houses as it will ever be, I don't see how they can justify being annoyed at a plan that doesn't change their current situation in any way. In fact the plan in some ways improves their quality of life, with a safer access to their homes, a safer road for the industrial traffic, sound barriers, less standing traffic and air pollution.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

"Traffic, air and noise pollution, industrial traffic passing through a residential area"

You've described the current situation perfectly there. The road upgrade seeks to remove some of the standing traffic and air pollution.

shortcircuitie

I love how they give the rationalization for routing the traffic to the Bandon Road Roundabout: "It will give easy access to the Northern Orbital Road"

So we should re-route a critical piece of national infrastructure so that the traffic can access a fictional road that may or may not exist in ten years time?

Thankfully, these people don't seem to have any political backing, unlike the Ranelagh residents who had a kindred spirit in Lord Ross of Stepaside

shortcircuitie

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Well, once the High Court hears the case, we just have to wait another few months for the verdict, and then another few months for the Steering Group to appeal to the Court of Appeal, and then a few more months for the Steering Group to appeal the Court of Appeal's decision to the Supreme Court. Or, if we're really lucky, any of these courts will quash ABP's decision and we get to start the whole planning process from the beginning.

Reminder: the application for planning permission for this twelve-kilometre stretch of road was submitted in May 2017. It is now February 2019 and we still do not have planning permission secured.

Our planning system is reprehensibly bad. After ABP there should be only be recourse to one appeal which could overturn the ABP decision if there was a major abuse of process.

This thing of being able to appeal the ABP decision to the High Court, and then the Court of Appeal and possibly the Supreme Court and Europe is crazy. The progress of the country as a whole can be held to ransom by a band of snobs living on Maryborough Hill.

It's such an example of people with money being able to exert undue influence. If the motorway was going through Knocknaheeny or Mahon would there be a steering group with a high-end legal team bringing cases to the High court?

AugustusMinimus

shortcircuitie wrote: »

I love how they give the rationalization for routing the traffic to the Bandon Road Roundabout: "It will give easy access to the Northern Orbital Road"

So we should re-route a critical piece of national infrastructure so that the traffic can access a fictional road that may or may not exist in ten years time?

Thankfully, these people don't seem to have any political backing, unlike the Ranelagh residents who had a kindred spirit in Lord Ross of Stepaside

The proposed North Ring Road doesn’t even commence at the Bandon Road Roundabout. No one will go 20 miles out of their way. They’ll just continue using the old over capacity road.

Bloomfield is next to the tunnel and a few hundred metres from the Airport access.

That's where the link should go. Vast majority of the traffic will be passing through the tunnel.

AugustusMinimus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bloomfield is next to the tunnel and a few hundred metres from the Airport access.

That's where the link should go. Vast majority of the traffic will be passing through the tunnel.

Bloomfield is also a trumpet junction with the highest capacity of any junction on the SRR.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Bloomfield is also a trumpet junction with the highest capacity of any junction on the SRR.

The merge westbound is a disaster there to be fair, only because the merging lane is insanely short.

Eastbound is grand (or would be without blocked up tunnel traffic from the roundabout).

AugustusMinimus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The merge westbound is a disaster there to be fair, only because the merging lane is insanely short.

Eastbound is grand (or would be without blocked up tunnel traffic from the roundabout).

The junction is fine. The Douglas flyover needs to be widened to 3 lanes however.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Whatever about the pollution, the noise you get used to, bizarrely. Lived very close to a motorway for a year and the lack of noise used to wake me up. As for the objection it does sound more like anywhere but here. I'd assume there would some kind of noise reduction measures.

You might get used to it but you will find that you will take a massive hit to the value of your property.

I could not care about the noise but a massive hit to capital like that, or being pushed into negative equity would more than annoy the **** out of me.
But I, personally, would simply ask to mitigate that by getting valuation assessments pre/post build and getting compensation to match. That may annoy the hell out of people here but to me would be a fair compromise. Yes it will cost money but how much are we losing by not having the work done.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The junction is fine. The Douglas flyover needs to be widened to 3 lanes however.

Exactly, that's why I qualified with the merging lane comment. There should be three lanes between Bloomfield and Kinsale Rd

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

You might get used to it but you will find that you will take a massive hit to the value of your property.

I could not care about the noise but a massive hit to capital like that, or being pushed into negative equity would more than annoy the **** out of me.
But I, personally, would simply ask to mitigate that by getting valuation assessments pre/post build and getting compensation to match. That may annoy the hell out of people here but to me would be a fair compromise. Yes it will cost money but how much are we losing by not having the work done.

That's nonsense. Should the people whose property values soared after the Luas was built next to them have to pony up the difference and pay it to the state??

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's nonsense. Should the people whose property values soared after the Luas was built next to them have to pony up the difference and pay it to the state??

The government should not be in the business of forcing people into NE or wiping out their house prices.
Simply put, would you just take it or would you fight it if it were happening to you?

There is a bit of "feck em, they're rich" attitude to those affected but I can well understand it. I am also not at all saying that everyone but there are people who are going to be stuck in houses that they can never sell, or now are unable to cover mortgages by a sale if needed.

Cookiemunster

Deleted User wrote: »

The government should not be in the business of forcing people into NE or wiping out their house prices.
Simply put, would you just take it or would you fight it if it were happening to you?

There is a bit of "feck em, they're rich" attitude to those affected but I can well understand it. I am also not at all saying that everyone but there are people who are going to be stuck in houses that they can never sell, or now are unable to cover mortgages by a sale if needed.

Could you explain how this road will put people into negative equity? There's already a heavily trafficked, congested road in situ. How will a road improvement that will reduce congestion have this affect?

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Could you explain how this road will put people into negative equity? There's already a heavily trafficked, congested road in situ. How will a road improvement that will reduce congestion have this affect?

Traffic noise on a motorway can be much more than a normal road, dampners or no.

Depends on the route proposed, if the road now comes closer to houses it will cause issues with resale price.
I was looking at a house towards Watergrasshill about 2 years back and it was motorway noise that killed it for me (agent said it was causing issues for a lot of potential purchasers) and otherwise it was a banker purchase.

Some people won't mind but other purchasers will and will offer less based on that.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Traffic noise on a motorway can be much more than a normal road, dampners or no.

Depends on the route proposed, if the road now comes closer to houses it will cause issues with resale price.
I was looking at a house towards Watergrasshill about 2 years back and it was motorway noise that killed it for me (agent said it was causing issues for a lot of potential purchasers) and otherwise it was a banker purchase.

Some people won't mind but other purchasers will and will offer less based on that.

The road will be no closer to the already extremely busy and congested road that is there already. The state should definitely not be held to ransom by NIMBYs looking for a payoff.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

The road will be no closer to the already extremely busy and congested road that is there already. The state should definitely not be held to ransom by NIMBYs looking for a payoff.

If it won't be closer then fine but if it was I would not be worried about them looking for the difference in a verified valuation pre/post.

danny004

I swear Ill be sorry when this road is sorted because this is the thread that keeps on giving. NIMBY this that the other.We certainly have a lot of social angels in this thread who wouldnt bat an eyelid about their own backyard if it was for the common good or for the of fat cats looking to redevelop the docklands into miserable apartment blocks lol. A motorway wont affect anyone's property value and if it does so what because its for the common good. Serious discussions about the airport route that is never going happen or be taken seriously ,I suspect there has been more discussion about it here than in TII. All the things the steering group would never get done like actually get to a JR ,raise the money ,there was one post that the solicitors representing them must be related because of a common surname. The volume of people who support the steering group being questioned ,all irrelevant.
The only thing that is relevant today is did the CCC and TII follow correct process and was bord planeala correct in interpreting that. If the answer is no then it will be passed back to Bord Planeala to look at again ,if the answer is yes then the planning stands.

Baldilocks

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2019/0225/1032621-n28/

Cork Trucker

The leader of the NIMBY's objectors is to appear on RTE six one news this evening it seems.

Sam Russell

Mod:
Can we go easy on the NIMBY name calling. Objectors might be a less pejorative term. Those who are taking judicial challenge to the project are taking a financial risk with their own money, and should be heard. They are within their rights, and deserve to be given respect, whether others agree with them or not.

So less of the NIMBY and more of the Objectors.

Cork Trucker

The funding raised in respect of the quarry is interesting, a total failure if anything based on the target and the reality.

https://gogetfunding.com/save-raffeen-quarry/?fbclid=IwAR3a8z2H2wsrQ2pUjBQ_Ih4kXQEo9dGabAK5y7ipRWIba-hsROxuXbHUUro

danny004

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The funding raised in respect of the quarry is interesting, a total failure if anything based on the target and the reality.

https://gogetfunding.com/save-raffeen-quarry/?fbclid=IwAR3a8z2H2wsrQ2pUjBQ_Ih4kXQEo9dGabAK5y7ipRWIba-hsROxuXbHUUro

A reality of being in the high court with a judicial review which was their objective ,Id take failures in life like that all day long.

Sam Russell

danny004 wrote: »

A reality of being in the high court with a judicial review which was their objective ,Id take failures in life like that all day long.

The funding really matters if they lose and get costs against them.