Indoor food hall planned for Market Street

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

The English market is a thriving business today.

Because it's well established, everyone in the country knows it's there now. That doesn't mean you can just throw up a similar market anywhere and expect the same results. The Galway market would be starting from scratch, they need to take the modern world into account.

I'm not saying it will fail or that people won't go to it, I'm just saying they're not making things easy for themselves. If it's awkward to get to in a car they've already lost thousands of people from the city, nevermind the county. It will be a novelty for a lot of people and not the staple that the Cork one has become over hundreds of years.

They will have to hit the ground running with essential businesses that people are willing to travel to get to. I really don't think they'll be able to support themselves on whoever is within walking distance. I want to see a English market like Cork in Galway, I think it's perfectly suited to the city. but I know for a fact I wouldn't be using that one much if it's going to be a pain to get to it. I just wouldn't be able to justify driving into Galway and paying for parking just to buy a shopping bags worth of stuff.

If it's not financially viable it's going to fail. Bottom line.

xckjoo

ScumLord wrote: »

Because it's well established, everyone in the country knows it's there now. That doesn't mean you can just throw up a similar market anywhere and expect the same results. The Galway market would be starting from scratch, they need to take the modern world into account.

I'm not saying it will fail or that people won't go to it, I'm just saying they're not making things easy for themselves. If it's awkward to get to in a car they've already lost thousands of people from the city, nevermind the county. It will be a novelty for a lot of people and not the staple that the Cork one has become over hundreds of years.

They will have to hit the ground running with essential businesses that people are willing to travel to get to. I really don't think they'll be able to support themselves on whoever is within walking distance. I want to see a English market like Cork in Galway, I think it's perfectly suited to the city. but I know for a fact I wouldn't be using that one much if it's going to be a pain to get to it. I just wouldn't be able to justify driving into Galway and paying for parking just to buy a shopping bags worth of stuff.

If it's not financially viable it's going to fail. Bottom line.

It's already going to be a awkward to get to in a car because roads in Galway are completely choked with traffic because so many people drive absolutely everywhere.

Park in the Dyke Road car park and walk in. Baring a physical disability there's no excuse.

Mrs OBumble

J o e wrote: »

The English market is a thriving business today.

Your uncle has already solved the problem so...

I suspect that the Department of Social Protection (Free travel pass) department have a lot to do with that.

A new market wont thrive on pensioners alone.

And if it's planned to be year-round, it won't survive on tourists alone, either.

I don't think that market shoppers need to come almost all the way by car. But to justify using central city land for a market there will need to be some building overheard. And it's like that whatever goes into that building will need some vehicle access.

martinkop

Is this just putting the existing market under a roof and making it a bit bigger to accommodate the waiting list for spaces??
If so, then access will be as it currently is??

ScumLord

xckjoo wrote: »

Park in the Dyke Road car park and walk in. Baring a physical disability there's no excuse.

I can use whatever excuse I want, that's the thing, people will have a list of reasons why they wont go, it's up to the business to deal with those issues if they want people to come through the door.. You can't just expect people to show up.

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them. They can't just tell people to come and start saying things like only disabled people wouldn't be able to walk to us, that isn't going to get them any customers.

If they want it to be more than a temporary fad they need to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible. No amount of telling people they should be willing to park here or get a train there is going to overcome that.

joeKel73

ScumLord wrote: »

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them.

They have the big advantage of being in the city centre. They are 120m from Shop Street, a very busy pedestrian street. They are also surrounded by loads of businesses with staff who will be looking for a tasty lunch.

Like any food market I'm sure they'll not be targeting the €150 trolley crowd, where you need a car nearby to offload the weekly haul.

xckjoo

ScumLord wrote: »

I can use whatever excuse I want, that's the thing, people will have a list of reasons why they wont go, it's up to the business to deal with those issues if they want people to come through the door.. You can't just expect people to show up.

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them. They can't just tell people to come and start saying things like only disabled people wouldn't be able to walk to us, that isn't going to get them any customers.

If they want it to be more than a temporary fad they need to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible. No amount of telling people they should be willing to park here or get a train there is going to overcome that.

But it is easily accessible. Have a look at the amount of people on Shop Street any given weekend. They are all there on foot, walking around and shopping. You're just looking at it from your own point of view and assuming the everyone else is the same. Trying to shoe horn more cars into the area will only reduce accessibility to everyone.

There's research to show that reducing cars in an area causes an increase in footfall and corresponding increase in spending in shops. I'll try and dig it out later and post if required. Unless someone else does it for me

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

They have the big advantage of being in the city centre. They are 120m from Shop Street, a very busy pedestrian street. They are also surrounded by loads of businesses with staff who will be looking for a tasty lunch.

There are those people but if it's anything like the place in Cork they're not really looking for a lunch crowd, the coffee shop in Cork is tiny, and any stall that sells food also has only enough room for 3 or 4 people. It's not a place to go to for lunch. It's a place to go to to buy delicatessen foods you cook at home.

xckjoo wrote: »

But it is easily accessible. Have a look at the amount of people on Shop Street any given weekend. They are all there on foot, walking around and shopping. You're just looking at it from your own point of view and assuming the everyone else is the same.

As far as I know the crowd shopping on shop street isn't really shopping for food, it's more clothes and other things. I don't think there's always a crossover in those kind of shoppers.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really do think they're cutting themselves off from a lot of business. Maybe they have research that there's enough locals that will purchase expensive food items to support them. Because if there isn't this will open for a few months and then collapse from lack of customers and there will be nothing they can do about it at that stage. If they end up costing the vendors a load of money those vendors may be unwilling to try this kind of market again in a hurry.

ben.schlomo

Scumlord you're really over-thinking this. People can park in many different areas in town and get to the proposed location. Much like they do for every other errand they run or shop they shop in in town. Mccambridges would have a very similar customer type to that of the proposed market and they don't struggle for custom. Thousands of people shop in town on a daily basis and manage to do so quite easily, I can't see people needing to be hauling ten ton of produce from the market to a car either, shoppers in these kinds of places are looking for specific small ingredients / produce,not furniture sized goods.

joeKel73

ScumLord wrote: »

There are those people but if it's anything like the place in Cork they're not really looking for a lunch crowd, the coffee shop in Cork is tiny, and any stall that sells food also has only enough room for 3 or 4 people. It's not a place to go to for lunch. It's a place to go to to buy delicatessen foods you cook at home.

Cork is just one example. Look at the likes of Borough Market in London (not fully indoor and not daily) which has a great range of different hot take-away food options.

It would be a great place to test out a new food offering before progressing to a new cafe in the city. Just look at the Falafel Bar and the Dough Bros.

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Mccambridges would have a very similar customer type to that of the proposed market and they don't struggle for custom.

^ great example

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

Cork is just one example. Look at the likes of Borough Market in London (not fully indoor and not daily) which has a great range of different hot take-away food options.

You're talking about two completely different scales. London is a densely packed city, it's also a well planned city, you wouldn't be let build something without proper access. You also have a wide range of transport options, car (and you will likely have proper car access if it's built in the past 50 years), bus, taxi, underground, train, London is a city you can easily get by in without a car. But the bottom line is they have a huge population, you can plonk a business anywhere in London and have thousands and thousands of people within walking distance.

I'd love for our planners to be a bit more like the English, they know how to plan something in advance so that it will work and work well into the future.

It would be a great place to test out a new food offering before progressing to a new cafe in the city. Just look at the Falafel Bar and the Dough Bros.

If there are people there. The guys that are paying rent probably won't want blow ins stealing their customers before they even walk in the door either.

^ great example

It's a small shop that gets tourist trade as an add on. it's not hard to support a small shop, it's very different from the needs of a market.

Where would you put it ScumLord?
Or would you allow it at all?

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Where would you put it ScumLord?
Or would you allow it at all?

I've already said I want a market like this is Galway.

The worry I have is they'll throw up this building without putting the proper research into making it a viable business. It will go well for a while but as it's just frustrating to get to people will lose interest in it. The market will fail and everyone that invested time and money it it (the vendors) will be turned off these types of markets.

If it's not done properly it will not only fail but make people believe that galway can't support one and vendors wouldn't take a chance on one again.

I'd put it somewhere that has easy access, both by car, bus, bicycle and maybe even somewhere there's the possibility of a train being connected at some stage. There's no reason why it couldn't be the centrepiece of a new shopping district, there's no need to cram everything into the shop street area.

Webbs

Cardiff whilst obviously bigger has a thriving indoor market and has done for a long time (100 years +). Access to the city by car there is pretty awful and incredibly expensive if you have to park a car. Public transport is ok at best.
Yet its a great place with majority of stalls being food but a wide range of others books, arts, homeware etc etc.

Its the sort of market as is all these markets that people pop into for a small bag of items. They work in other places without parking so why not Galway

ScumLord

Webbs wrote: »

Its the sort of market as is all these markets that people pop into for a small bag of items. They work in other places without parking so why not Galway

I don't think we can compare a well established market that's been in constant use for 100+ years to a start up. A new start up is going to be like any other business, there's no guarantee it's going to be an instant success.

People aren't going to go out of their way for an unknown, an established market comes with all kinds of nostalgia, people grew up going to it and wouldn't apply the same standards as they would for a new market.

Celestial12

Where would you have it then? I think it's an ideal location. Traffic is horrendous all over the city, if the market was in a more obscure location outside of the centre it would also create traffic problems, and lose out on being within walking vicinity for people who head in and out of town.

Galway needs new developments. It would be great for the area.

ScumLord

Celestial12 wrote: »

Where would you have it then?

I can't say, I'd need to do proper research, you'd need to have experience in shops, supermarkets, and other big consumer centres, you'd need to have some experts that could give projections of traffic, a breakdown of consumer types in the area, me picking a place that I like wouldn't do any good.

Webbs

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can compare a well established market that's been in constant use for 100+ years to a start up. A new start up is going to be like any other business, there's no guarantee it's going to be an instant success.

People aren't going to go out of their way for an unknown, an established market comes with all kinds of nostalgia, people grew up going to it and wouldn't apply the same standards as they would for a new market.

I would have thought people incl tourists, visitors to the city and those who are residents would expect a covered indoor food/art/etc market to have a city centre location. People are well traveled now and would have experience of similar in other towns and cities worldwide.
An out of town location makes no sense for this type of project, it needs to be in the heart of a place.

ScumLord

I hope it works out, the location is nice, it will bring more life to the city centre. But I really hope they've thought this out properly and know what they're doing. If they get it wrong they could take down some small producers if they invest in a space and it fails.

I do genuinely think this is something that's perfectly suited to Galway, I just don't want to see the opportunity squandered, because if it is, it will probably be years before someone has another go.

topcat77

I'd really like to see this work, I love calling into markets in the various cities i've visited. i think it gives a great insight to the city you're visiting. They're sometimes the only place where you get to see some personality of the city rather than the same high street names everywhere.

I can't recall seeing any parking facilities at any of these markets but then the city they're in does have a decent transport infrastructure (Sort it out Galway city council).

i'd say it could work if the market was split into 2 areas.

The first being produce only (Fruit veg, Butchers, Bakery, Various world foods. etc...........

The second would be a licensed food hall open till 10pm like:
http://www.timeoutmarket.com/en/concept/

which is fantastic!!!!

ScumLord

topcat77 wrote: »

i'd say it could work if the market was split into 2 areas.

The first being produce only (Fruit veg, Butchers, Bakery, Various world foods. etc...........

The second would be a licensed food hall open till 10pm like:
http://www.timeoutmarket.com/en/concept/

which is fantastic!!!!

I haven't been to a lot of markets internationally, a few in the UK but quality varies massively, I've been to none that match Cork for quality, diversity and size.

Cork has the upstairs coffee shop which isn't really big enough to serve the venue, I think there's also a restaurant but I didn't go into it. The problem for the Galway market is they may be very stuck for space, upstairs is probably going to be the hotel, I don't know if they'll be able to do the high ceilings like Cork and stick a hotel on top of that.

What I really liked about Cork was how some vendors were also serving food. They could only accommodate 3 or 4 people but it had the feeling of a cramped Asian market and was pretty cool. Obviously it's not a solution for serving everybody but it's nice to allow some to do it

But yeah, I think it's definitely going to need some sort of place selling meals, walking around all that food is going to make you hungry.

Cheshire Cat

Something like the market / food hall in Lisbon that topcat77 linked to would be fantastic. Was there and adored it. Top notch food and a great vibe!

Cheshire Cat

ScumLord wrote: »

Cork has the upstairs coffee shop which isn't really big enough to serve the venue, I think there's also a restaurant but I didn't go into it. The problem for the Galway market is they may be very stuck for space, upstairs is probably going to be the hotel, I don't know if they'll be able to do the high ceilings like Cork and stick a hotel on top of that.

Looking at the picture in the first post, I would guess that the proposed market is the square building with the skylight on the left. That looks like double height to me and no hotel above.
They could have a gallery/mezzanine upstairs.

Bobeagleburger

Fantastic ideaa.

Hope it happens.

holygoaliefc

ScumLord wrote: »

I can't say, I'd need to do proper research, you'd need to have experience in shops, supermarkets, and other big consumer centres, you'd need to have some experts that could give projections of traffic, a breakdown of consumer types in the area, me picking a place that I like wouldn't do any good.

So to put it somewhere you'd need to do "proper research", but your reasons for NOT putting it where it is being proposed don't require the same.......interesting

Daisy78

Webbs wrote: »

An out of town location makes no sense for this type of project, it needs to be in the heart of a place.

I dread to think that it would end up in a retail park on the edge of town which is totally against the spirit of a project like this. Let's face it there are practically no sites within the city environs which are easily accessible by car. Somebody mentioned Silkes, I always thought it had great potential as a public amenity such as a market but it is no more accessible than the proposed location. I would liken this project to Fallon and Byrne in Dublin which is the closest thing we have here to a good market, people go there to pick up a few bits and pieces in the food hall and have a quick bite to eat in the cafe, they don't do their weekly shop, it's not that kind of venue. It's also not what you would call accessible by car, unless you are willing to pay the eye wateringly expensive parking charges for the car park nearby. And it relies heavily on tourists. Galway is a pedestrian orientated city. It has to be, the physical constraints of the city just don't allow for high volume traffic. I dont think it is too much of a hardship for residents (and tourists) to have to park a little further away and walk the short distance to get to these places. And the long term planning and transportation strategy for the city will need to take account of this but I won't hold my breath on that one...

ScumLord

holygoaliefc wrote: »

So to put it somewhere you'd need to do "proper research", but your reasons for NOT putting it where it is being proposed don't require the same.......interesting

I never made any assertions that it should go anywhere. Someone pointed out that there would be big traffic issues with this location, I agreed. I also pointed out that if it's not easy to access by car they're making it less likely they'll get shoppers that are not within walking distance, location and access are always two major concerns for anyone opening a business, that's common sense.

I'm asking questions, I'm not dictating anything, they can put it where they want. Like I've already said I want this to work.

Boggy Turf

Cool. I think a decent food market in town will absolutely clean up. About time really.

what_traffic

Potential for a lot of the Restuarnats and Cafes in the City Centre to source food supplies from a Central City Centre Market.