Deer Renewals and HCAP questionnaire

Hunter456

Cass wrote: »

I don't believe it.

Even after numerous posts here and talking on Facebook people are still convinced that the HCAP is now mandatory for all people seeking a deer license.

It's NOT

It's a proposals from some groups that will benefit financially from the introduction of such a law. The fact that people are accepting this is dangerous not to mention ignorant.

By accepting this as a given it eases the way for the proposals to come into effect without opposition. Then be made law. When that happened people won't be surprised as they thought it was already in.


I hear some saying "sure once you have it that'll be the end". How f**king naive can you be. When in the history of shooting in this country have the Government ever said " You know what, those shooting guys have enough law, i think we'll stop there".

Not to mention we have our own lot always inventing new ways to screw us for money at every turn.

I'm genuinely livid that people think :

• The HCAP is worth a stocking of piss
• Is already a "done deal"
• Is actually a current legal requirement
• Will be brought in
• Are not opposing them

Same thing applies to tags. The topic comes up here from time to time and i've seen now tht people believe these are being brought in and even asking where they can buy them.

See the danger of rumor and ignorance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

first time applicant of a deer license was a approved 4 weeks ago got a cover letter stating the license was approved and will arrive in due course. the biggest problem to date within the hunting community we have people who think they know it all and spread their made up ****e.

Cass

Hunter456 wrote: »

the biggest problem to date within the hunting community we have people who think they know it all and spread their made up ****e.

What shíte have i made up?

Hunter456

Cass wrote: »

What shíte have i made up?

not you lad the people who are spreading these rumors.

Cass

Ah, thought you meant me when you quoted my post.

While i'm annoyed at how easily people believe these things, they are not really at fault. They ones i blame, other than the authors of the proposals, are those that don't understand that they are just proposals and then spread the word (and they do believe it's happening) that it's now law or going to be shortly. No one thinks to confirm, ask, or check it out. They take it at face value.

Some people have read the proposals, thought it was going to be law or is law, and then tell others. Then the rumor mill starts. So it's not everyone's fault, just the few that send out the word with the wrong message attached.

That is why i use the word ignorance. They don't understand, but still spread the word. If i don't understand something i ask or keep quiet. When this topic and the night shooting issue came up i contacted my local reps, and my Rep on the FCP. I got what was going on from the horse's mouth.

I now have a better understanding of what was done and by whom.

Hunter456

Cass wrote: »

Ah, thought you meant me when you quoted my post.

While i'm annoyed at how easily people believe these things, they are not really at fault. They ones i blame, other than the authors of the proposals, are those that don't understand that they are just proposals and then spread the word (and they do believe it's happening) that it's now law or going to be shortly. No one thinks to confirm, ask, or check it out. They take it at face value.

Some people have read the proposals, thought it was going to be law or is law, and then tell others. Then the rumor mill starts. So it's not everyone's fault, just the few that send out the word with the wrong message attached.

That is why i use the word ignorance. They don't understand, but still spread the word. If i don't understand something i ask or keep quiet. When this topic and the night shooting issue came up i contacted my local reps, and my Rep on the FCP. I got what was going on from the horse's mouth.

I now have a better understanding of what was done and by whom.

i done alot of reading before i made up my own mind about these proposals, I came to the conclusion of a man trying to fill his pocket from ordinary shooters, i got a text from a friend the other day '' o your lamping days are over and the hcap is needed for your license '' i spent an hour explaining both subjects are only proposals and they are NOT stoned into law, People have a habit of making their own assumptions and trying to feed you ****e. i only hope that people see the real reason these FCP proposals have came into play and y they are pushing it.

Cass

I'm not out to insult anyone, but that is exactly what is happening.

In the age of social media there really is no excuse for so many people not to know. Whether it's from reading it, being told about it, hearing it, etc. The problem is the same medium can spread the wrong information quicker.

Grizzly 45

"A lie is half way around the world,before the truth is out of bed"
Winston Churchill
This is why I keep saying to people.CONFIRM from at least two sources whatever rumour or scuttle butt you hear or are told by whomever before passing it on.This is an utter killer in the Irish shooting community hearing fourth hand info and passing it on as gospel,because your best mate heard it off some guy in the pub,or your local Garda said so,so it must be true! And if it is in writing like this situation,read the damn thing,read it again and again and if you still don't get it,ask a grown up to help you..:p No rocket science involved of what's been asked.

I have written DECLINE TO ANSWER on the form at this question and am including the following explanation on another sheet
To whom it may concern.
In Ref to the question of my qualifications to hunt deer on this years application form I am declining to answer on the following reasons;

1] There is no statutory obligation to have any such qualification under the Wildlife acts at this present time. All pertinent info as required under the wildlife acts I have included in this form.

2] HCAP is a programme for people who wish to hunt on state lands owned/leased by Coilte,as such it is for mostly insurance purposes.It has no legal standing or or statutory bearing outside Coilte property.Therefore it is not a legal requirement under statutory law.

3]Under EU legislation,recognition of EU qualifications on the same subject from other EU states are now a mandatory part of EU protocol.Ergo whoever is proposing this is breaking EU law by demanding "irish recognised qualifications"EG We cannot refuse to recognise other hunting liscenses from EU member states as a qualification.

4] The proposed time frame for this introduction is utterly bizarre and flying in the face of political reality as it will require amendments to the Wildlife acts.

5] It is of no busisness of NPWS or any 3rd party as to my security arrangements of my firearms or my ability to shoot them straight! Such information on the latter is of concern to the Chief Super or Superintendant of my district.It is a pre requisite of granting my liscense that he/she satisfies him/herself of my security arrangements for secure storage of my firearms. If they are satisfied and issue me a current firearms cert,NPWS can rest assured my security is satisfactory.As to the former,again no beeswax of NPWS or any other 3rd party. I would be also concerned und er the data protection act as to whom and which 3rd party NPWS is sharing this information and is this 3rd party qualified and able to safe store my information under data protection rules??

6]I am declining to participate in the survey form of the Irish deer management forum for the same reasons as stated.

7] Ref the land limitation of over 200 acres.There is no mention in the wildlife acts as to minimum ground to shoot over before a deer liscense is to be considerd.This seems to be some "makey up" law by NPWS? If so I might recommend consultation with An Garda Siochanna in relation to numerous firearms cases in previous years that went thru the district courts and high courts and were won in 95% of cases by gun owners due to made up law by AGS.

Sincerely.
Please feel free to add or discuss as you see fit here.
I think a good few of those type of letters arriving in with the applications might give NPWS and whomever is involved pause for thought??
Thoughts?

gunny123

You're becoming one of the awkward squad Grizzly45 !

Hunter456

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"A lie is half way around the world,before the truth is out of bed"
Winston Churchill
This is why I keep saying to people.CONFIRM from at least two sources whatever rumour or scuttle butt you hear or are told by whomever before passing it on.This is an utter killer in the Irish shooting community hearing fourth hand info and passing it on as gospel,because your best mate heard it off some guy in the pub,or your local Garda said so,so it must be true! And if it is in writing like this situation,read the damn thing,read it again and again and if you still don't get it,ask a grown up to help you..:p No rocket science involved of what's been asked.

I have written DECLINE TO ANSWER on the form at this question and am including the following explanation on another sheet
To whom it may concern.
In Ref to the question of my qualifications to hunt deer on this years application form I am declining to answer on the following reasons;

1] There is no statutory obligation to have any such qualification under the Wildlife acts at this present time. All pertinent info as required under the wildlife acts I have included in this form.

2] HCAP is a programme for people who wish to hunt on state lands owned/leased by Coilte,as such it is for mostly insurance purposes.It has no legal standing or or statutory bearing outside Coilte property.Therefore it is not a legal requirement under statutory law.

3]Under EU legislation,recognition of EU qualifications on the same subject from other EU states are now a mandatory part of EU protocol.Ergo whoever is proposing this is breaking EU law by demanding "irish recognised qualifications"EG We cannot refuse to recognise other hunting liscenses from EU member states as a qualification.

4] The proposed time frame for this introduction is utterly bizarre and flying in the face of political reality as it will require amendments to the Wildlife acts.

5] It is of no busisness of NPWS or any 3rd party as to my security arrangements of my firearms or my ability to shoot them straight! Such information on the latter is of concern to the Chief Super or Superintendant of my district.It is a pre requisite of granting my liscense that he/she satisfies him/herself of my security arrangements for secure storage of my firearms. If they are satisfied and issue me a current firearms cert,NPWS can rest assured my security is satisfactory.As to the former,again no beeswax of NPWS or any other 3rd party. I would be also concerned und er the data protection act as to whom and which 3rd party NPWS is sharing this information and is this 3rd party qualified and able to safe store my information under data protection rules??

6]I am declining to participate in the survey form of the Irish deer management forum for the same reasons as stated.

7] Ref the land limitation of over 200 acres.There is no mention in the wildlife acts as to minimum ground to shoot over before a deer liscense is to be considerd.This seems to be some "makey up" law by NPWS? If so I might recommend consultation with An Garda Siochanna in relation to numerous firearms cases in previous years that went thru the district courts and high courts and were won in 95% of cases by gun owners due to made up law by AGS.

Sincerely.
Please feel free to add or discuss as you see fit here.
I think a good few of those type of letters arriving in with the applications might give NPWS and whomever is involved pause for thought??
Thoughts?

The best possible response you could have given a few letters like that wouldn't do any harm.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

You're becoming one of the awkward squad Grizzly45 !

ALWAYS when it comes to people thinking they can get away with curtailing my privilidges as a citizen.

Grizzly 45

Back in 2015,NARGC conducted a survey on deer stalking as well..What ever became of those results,or were any conclusions drawn??

Cass

Just a reminder for those still to receive or who have just received their renewals.

I got the renewals some weeks back. Filled in the "standard" parts, but refused the questionnaire, and never answered the new questions on the renewal.

I reckon they thought by putting them on the renewal people would think they have to answer them. I sent it back with a short note saying:

"I refuse to answer the new questions on the renewal as they are not a prerequisite for renewing a deer license. By answering those questions i would be supporting the proposals as submitted by the NPWS in liaison with the Sports Coalition to the review committee on firearms.

I DO NOT support the proposals as laid out in that working group document."

It's up to you what you do, but anyone that answers the new questions or the questionnaire is simply giving them ammo to use against us in the future.

Sheep breeder

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Back in 2015,NARGC conducted a survey on deer stalking as well..What ever became of those results,or were any conclusions drawn??

Surveys can be made to fit what people want as results to help their side of the story, in Wicklow the dept done a couple of culls on deer for TB and one set of results had to be binned due to high TB returns,
Can anybody on here tell me where in Ireland that deer have become scarce due to shooting, and the biggest problem is the amount of fellas with guns who do not shoot any amount of deer but want to stop everybody else from shooting in there area and are not land owners and are paying for the right to shoot.

Zxthinger

richiedel123 wrote: »

As far as i know this has been stopped for the last year or so and has not been ran

It was stopped alright.. i had inquired after it but there was insufficient numbers of patrons who had committed via a payment of 250 big one.. Therefore it was shelved for that season.. Nothing was mentioned about permanently removing it.

Zxthinger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

WHO is ticking this box or not and who is filling in this included questionare from Irish deer management forum??

I'm not ,none of their beeswax what my qualifications are and not revelant to issuing a liscense under the SI.Nor do I feel obliged to assist in the rope making for my own hanging. Will include a note to that effect when I return the form.
Anyone else with me for a spot of civil disobedience?:pac:

Perhaps we should all submit last years application form.. as a protest..

Also Im not happy over the 'deer hunting permission slips, that have been included by NPWS. The place legal "frighteners" on those offering hunters permission when in my opinion it is the hunter or firearm holder who is imo responsible for their actions.. Im going to for go these too in my application and re-hatch my original rendition..
Ye'd swear that they were trying to scare land owners form giving lads permission to enjoy access to private lands..

Cass

Zxthinger wrote: »

It was stopped alright.. i had inquired after it but there was insufficient numbers of patrons who had committed via a payment of 250 big one.. Therefore it was shelved for that season.. Nothing was mentioned about permanently removing it.

Not what i heard. Again not official, but whispers/rumors, etc.

The course was "loosing money" and so was shelved as it didn't pay. I don't know how this can happen. I've no idea how many were on each class/course, but at €250 per head if you have 20 lads then it's €5,000. For a day.

How can you loose money on that? What are the instructors getting paid? What are the expenses? (room hire, travel, food, etc).

Zxthinger

Cass wrote: »

Not what i heard. Again not official, but whispers/rumors, etc.

The course was "loosing money" and so was shelved as it didn't pay. I don't know how this can happen. I've no idea how many were on each class/course, but at €250 per head if you have 20 lads then it's €5,000. For a day.

How can you loose money on that? What are the instructors getting paid? What are the expenses? (room hire, travel, food, etc).

'loosing money' is the same as not make enough profit..

Cass

You said "insufficient number of patrons". That is not enough people wanting to do it.

I said "loosing money". That is the course being ran but not only is it not making a profit but loosing money.

If that is what you meant then yes it's the same. However it's not what you said. Also my point still stands. If it was stopped due to lack of profits or being run at a loss how did this occur?

Cass

Wonder if this will be discussed. The ban on night shooting has taken precedence but this is also a very real threat.

Hunter456

could this be the lot that are pushing this.

https://ifhta.ie/mission-vision/


EMAIL
info@ifhta.ie
CALL
+353 (86) 358 6131
FIND US
Registered office: Courtlough Shooting Grounds, Balbriggan, Co. Dublin, Ireland

wirehairmax

C###s is the only word that describes what i think of that crowd. Working from the inside to feather their own nest. Some people should be ****ed off the FCP

Walter Mittys Brother

Speaking of boycott...............Courtlough should be on the list so

Cass

Lads this is what i mean.

You cannot throw out names. If you think someone or some group has caused a problem post with what they done, why, how it's a problem and any other relevant details.

Throwing out a name explains nothing and leads us right into the territory i wanted to avoid as discussed above.