Update on the Quays cycle route

magicbastarder

actually, is there anyone on here who knows how long it takes for DCC (as in the dublin cycling campaign) to mail out your membership card?

Moflojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, is there anyone on here who knows how long it takes for DCC (as in the dublin cycling campaign) to mail out your membership card?

It can take a couple of weeks I think. It's all voluntary so can take the relevant person some time to get around to sending out new batches.

magicbastarder

yep, i guessed that would be the case, which is why i didn't want to mail them to pester them.

Moflojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, i guessed that would be the case, which is why i didn't want to mail them to pester them.

Are you waiting to get a 10% discount in your LBS???

magicbastarder

gosh, why would you think that?

axer

matc66 wrote: »

I was a bit surprised by the amount of support for option 7. Three councillors supported it, Hand, Smyth, and Horgan-Jones.

IIRC McHugh was in favour of option 7 - he was just confused as to the numbering at times. The sectoral members will get a vote on it so it means that the Irish Parking Association, Irish Road Haulage Association and Dublin City Business Improvement District will vote for option 8 probably no matter what. Dublin Cycling Campaign for option 7 and I'd say National Council for the Blind of Ireland will vote option 7 too as option 8 is bad for the visually impaired considering it mixes cyclists and pedestrians.

Sectoral Members:
Derek Peppard, Dublin Cycling Campaign
Frank Mulligan Irish Road Haulage Association
Mr Keith Gavin, Irish Parking Association
Fiona Kelty, National Council for the Blind of Ireland
Richard Guiney, Dublin City Business Improvement District

This means that it will have to be a majority of council members plus 1 extra for option 7 to win. All the more reason people need to get on to them.

magicbastarder

ciaran cuffe, on newstalk, mentioned twice that the bus lane carries 10 times as many people as a car lane - have there been any actual calculations about the carrying capacity of the quays in various configurations?

e.g. if they're able to make buses 10% more efficient (and that might not even involve buying more rolling stock, it may be that that figure is achievable by simply reducing the return journey time of existing stock), that means they've added more capacity to the bus network than the entire capacity of private cars. you'd think the retailers in the city centre would be seizing on that?

Moflojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

ciaran cuffe, on newstalk, mentioned twice that the bus lane carries 10 times as many people as a car lane - have there been any actual calculations about the carrying capacity of the quays in various configurations?

e.g. if they're able to make buses 10% more efficient (and that might not even involve buying more rolling stock, it may be that that figure is achievable by simply reducing the return journey time of existing stock), that means they've added more capacity to the bus network than the entire capacity of private cars. you'd think the retailers in the city centre would be seizing on that?

Brendan O'Brien, the city manager, made some good points on that issue at yesterday's meeting. He said the data indicated that the main blockages for buses were on the Quays and in the city centre. Because most bus routes are crossing the entire city, and picking up and distributing multiple loads along the way, the city centre blockages have an inordinate effect on the efficiency of the entire bus network.

Colm Ryder, of the Dublin Cycling Campaign, referenced a DIT study which found that buses travelling along the North Quays have an hourly capacity of 8,000 people. The known occupancy of cars on the North Quays is 1.2 people/car, which puts the capacity of the North Quays for private cars at 600-800 people per hour.

A wide two-way cycle path has the potential to transport 7,500 people per hour. (https://nacto.org/)

magicbastarder

you'd have to wonder what are the retailers actually asking for. they're focussing on the less than 20% of their business which comes from cars, but don't see the overall increase of people coming into the city by designing the quays sensibly?
e.g. halve the number of cars - so a drop of 300 people per hour on the quays, and you might be looking at an increase of bus passengers of 1000 or 2000 or whatever.

they complain about the fact they're competing with the likes of dundrum, liffey valley, and blanchardstown which are easier to drive to - but you're not going to tempt that 'car based' business away from those centres simply because the city centre has no more capacity.

amcalester

magicbastarder wrote: »

you'd have to wonder what are the retailers actually asking for. they're focussing on the less than 20% of their business which comes from cars, but don't see the overall increase of people coming into the city by designing the quays sensibly?
e.g. halve the number of cars - so a drop of 300 people per hour on the quays, and you might be looking at an increase of bus passengers of 1000 or 2000 or whatever.

they complain about the fact they're competing with the likes of dundrum, liffey valley, and blanchardstown which are easier to drive to - but you're not going to tempt that 'car based' business away from those centres simply because the city centre has no more capacity.

Stop thinking outside the box.

Car = good. Everything else = bad.

Annie get your Run

magicbastarder wrote: »

they complain about the fact they're competing with the likes of dundrum, liffey valley, and blanchardstown which are easier to drive to - but you're not going to tempt that 'car based' business away from those centres simply because the city centre has no more capacity.

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I steer well clear of those shopping centres unless I have no choice, (and then I make sure I'm there very early in the morning) precisely because they are car based, how people waste several hours of their weekend sitting in a traffic jam trying to get into or out of Blanchardstown is beyond me!! I work in the city so any retail shopping I need to do I do at lunch and carry home on the bike.

Moflojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

you'd have to wonder what are the retailers actually asking for. they're focussing on the less than 20% of their business which comes from cars, but don't see the overall increase of people coming into the city by designing the quays sensibly?
e.g. halve the number of cars - so a drop of 300 people per hour on the quays, and you might be looking at an increase of bus passengers of 1000 or 2000 or whatever.

they complain about the fact they're competing with the likes of dundrum, liffey valley, and blanchardstown which are easier to drive to - but you're not going to tempt that 'car based' business away from those centres simply because the city centre has no more capacity.

Retailers perceive cars as providing a disproportionately large share of their customers. Multiple perception vs. reality studies (including one in Dublin City Centre by DIT) show that retailers overestimate how many of their customers travel by car, and underestimate how many customers walk, cycle, and use public transport. Below is an example of one such study, which isn't too far away from the Dublin figures IIRC:

magicbastarder

actually, we were in airfield beside dundrum the other day - and i was thinking it must be incredibly frustrating for locals who live along the road linking the M50 to the shopping centre. at least blanch and liffey valley are closer to N roads.

magicbastarder

Moflojo wrote: »

Below is an example of one such study, which isn't too far away from the Dublin figures IIRC:

i assume the shoppers were able to tick more than one box?

AlanG

Weepsie wrote: »

Ffs, the plan was far from perfect but objections from convention center and the point were taken seriously? Most attendees to both arrive by LUAS or on foot.

Backwards country

Yes for the convention center but certainly not for the Point - nearly everyone I know realises you have little chance of getting home from the Point on public transport so they get a lift or drive. Its all well and good waiting around for a Luas back to town but when you get there most buses and trains have stopped running. This needs to be sorted out first. Last train to Blanchardstown and maynooth is 11:10, on sunday its 8:45. You would be mad to rely on public transport to get home.
Regarding the convention center they also have to consider exhibitors and the key decision makers in business who generally arrive by car or van, without them there are no conventions.
I would love to see most of the original plan implemented but they need to increase public transport frequency first. Not everyone lives within easy cycling distance of town.

magicbastarder

i think that point (pun unintended) was made on the pat kenny show by a listener - if you live in maynooth, there's no way of getting home on PT after a gig.

that said, i don't think we should be designing traffic flows on the quays for gig goers who will be making at least one of those journeys long outside rush hour.

HivemindXX

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think that point (pun unintended) was made on the pat kenny show by a listener - if you live in maynooth, there's no way of getting home on PT after a gig.

What is wrong with Luas to the Red Cow, pick up your car from the Park and Ride, M50, M4 and home. Are people not even thinking about solutions that don't allow them to drive door to door?

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, we were in airfield beside dundrum the other day - and i was thinking it must be incredibly frustrating for locals who live along the road linking the M50 to the shopping centre. at least blanch and liffey valley are closer to N roads.

Theres another way of looking at that for Blanch. Blanch sits between the locals and the N road. So Everyone has to drive through or past it, to get to the N road even of you are not going to the shopping center. Or they take a much longer diversion around it. It effects local traffic in all directions around it.

magicbastarder

HivemindXX wrote: »

What is wrong with Luas to the Red Cow, pick up your car from the Park and Ride, M50, M4 and home. Are people not even thinking about solutions that don't allow them to drive door to door?

you mean i have to drive my car AND use public transport? what is this, the 20th century?

beauf

HivemindXX wrote: »

What is wrong with Luas to the Red Cow, pick up your car from the Park and Ride, M50, M4 and home. Are people not even thinking about solutions that don't allow them to drive door to door?

Would that not cost the same but take twice as long?

HivemindXX

beauf wrote: »

Would that not cost the same but take twice as long?

I think that's good progress. We've already moved from "impossible" to "not quick enough".

magicbastarder

anyway, it's a valid criticism of the lack of joined up thinking on public transport. and the car/PT approach is not much good for people who don't own a car.

also, part of the benefit of public transport is being able to leave the car at home. you get the hassles of PT and the hassles of car driving with the two pronged approach.

Moflojo

HivemindXX wrote: »

What is wrong with Luas to the Red Cow, pick up your car from the Park and Ride, M50, M4 and home. Are people not even thinking about solutions that don't allow them to drive door to door?

To be honest, that should be an option when booking a ticket for any event in the Point. A 'tick the box' option offering discounted park & ride rates from the Red Cow. A fiver.

ThisRegard

Any regular gig goer will tell you there's slim chance of getting on a Luas within a reasonable time period after an event. Usually you're still quicker walking back into the city centre.

markpb

ThisRegard wrote:

Any regular gig goer will tell you there's slim chance of getting on a Luas within a reasonable time period after an event. Usually you're still quicker walking back into the city centre.

Oddly enough I've been to several events there and never had any problems. I just wander out, shuffle along with the crowd and get straight onto a luas.

beauf

HivemindXX wrote: »

I think that's good progress. We've already moved from "impossible" to "not quick enough".

I think that's along the lines of how many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light blub. None they just refine darkness as light.

No one is going to pick the slowest route if there's that much of a difference in time and little difference in cost.

All the dots have to join up and make sense. I say that as a long time user of multi modal transport.

magicbastarder

If I'm going to a gig, it'd be nice to have a pint or two.

PPC

What if the route was bus only during rush hours as it is on College Green? Even 0700-1900 would be a nice compromise for the Point.

magicbastarder

i'm scratching my head here a little. a suggestion is made that it'd be ideal to have decent public transport for the likes of people who live in the commuter belt, and the response is to use a system which requires a private car - or to give up the idea of getting home at midnight and book a hotel?

is the notion that irish rail could put on a special train to maynooth from docklands at midnight, when there's a big gig on in the point, that radical?

magicbastarder

still scratching my head.