Update on the Quays cycle route

magicbastarder

anyway, it's a valid criticism of the lack of joined up thinking on public transport. and the car/PT approach is not much good for people who don't own a car.

also, part of the benefit of public transport is being able to leave the car at home. you get the hassles of PT and the hassles of car driving with the two pronged approach.

Moflojo

HivemindXX wrote: »

What is wrong with Luas to the Red Cow, pick up your car from the Park and Ride, M50, M4 and home. Are people not even thinking about solutions that don't allow them to drive door to door?

To be honest, that should be an option when booking a ticket for any event in the Point. A 'tick the box' option offering discounted park & ride rates from the Red Cow. A fiver.

ThisRegard

Any regular gig goer will tell you there's slim chance of getting on a Luas within a reasonable time period after an event. Usually you're still quicker walking back into the city centre.

markpb

ThisRegard wrote:

Any regular gig goer will tell you there's slim chance of getting on a Luas within a reasonable time period after an event. Usually you're still quicker walking back into the city centre.

Oddly enough I've been to several events there and never had any problems. I just wander out, shuffle along with the crowd and get straight onto a luas.

beauf

HivemindXX wrote: »

I think that's good progress. We've already moved from "impossible" to "not quick enough".

I think that's along the lines of how many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light blub. None they just refine darkness as light.

No one is going to pick the slowest route if there's that much of a difference in time and little difference in cost.

All the dots have to join up and make sense. I say that as a long time user of multi modal transport.

magicbastarder

If I'm going to a gig, it'd be nice to have a pint or two.

PPC

What if the route was bus only during rush hours as it is on College Green? Even 0700-1900 would be a nice compromise for the Point.

magicbastarder

i'm scratching my head here a little. a suggestion is made that it'd be ideal to have decent public transport for the likes of people who live in the commuter belt, and the response is to use a system which requires a private car - or to give up the idea of getting home at midnight and book a hotel?

is the notion that irish rail could put on a special train to maynooth from docklands at midnight, when there's a big gig on in the point, that radical?

magicbastarder

still scratching my head.

Corca Baiscinn

AlanG wrote: »

Yes for the convention center but certainly not for the Point - nearly everyone I know realises you have little chance of getting home from the Point on public transport so they get a lift or drive. Its all well and good waiting around for a Luas back to town but when you get there most buses and trains have stopped running. This needs to be sorted out first. Last train to Blanchardstown and maynooth is 11:10, on sunday its 8:45. You would be mad to rely on public transport to get home.
Regarding the convention center they also have to consider exhibitors and the key decision makers in business who generally arrive by car or van, without them there are no conventions.
I would love to see most of the original plan implemented but they need to increase public transport frequency first. Not everyone lives within easy cycling distance of town.

Think you're right re need for better PT in particular at night. if I lived in Maynooth I'd drive to Point too as Luas to Red cow is very slow and then I'd still have to drive. But the point is neither Option 7 of the Liffey Cycle Route nor the original plan to ban cars from going straight from Bachelor's Walk to Eden Quay would prevent cars accessing the Point, they would just have to take a diversion to do so. Ditto Convention Centre re set up etc. As Oivia Kelly says in her piece in today's IT DCC is obsessed with trying to keep everybody happy but it's not going to work

Chuchote

PPC wrote: »

What if the route was bus only during rush hours as it is on College Green? Even 0700-1900 would be a nice compromise for the Point.

Not bus only; it is the government's stated intention to move a mass of people on to bikes for shorter journeys. Cutting off bike access during rush hour would cut off access to most bike commuters.

magicbastarder

one point ciaran cuffe made a couple of times today was about people driving into free parking spaces in the city centre (something which pat kenny did not pick up on) - i can't remember if he specifically said civil servants.
has this ever been quantified?

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

one point ciaran cuffe made a couple of times today was about people driving into free parking spaces in the city centre (something which pat kenny did not pick up on) - i can't remember if he specifically said civil servants.
has this ever been quantified?

There was a brief row in 2012 about this

http://www.thejournal.ie/parking-levy-department-of-finance-budget-public-service-opw-427408-Apr2012/

Government paying €10m a year on parking for public servants
OPW says that renting a Dublin parking space costs the state an average €2,428 a year.

Apr 24th 2012
CORRESPONDENCE FROM from the OPW to the Public Accounts Committee last week showed that the government owns 9,479 parking spaces, of which 3,291 are in Dublin and the remaining 6,188 are “regional owned”.
The document also shows that state rented 2,967 spaces in Dublin in February 2012, at an average cost per space of €2,428 a year.
The OPW says these spaces carry an annual cost of €7.2 million. A further 1,608 spaces are being leased by the government outside of Dublin at an average cost per space of €710 and an annual cost of €1.14 million, bringing the total annual bill for parking space leasing to €8.34 million.
However, the OPW also notes that it estimates that a further €2 million a year is spent on car parking costs
(snip)

Going back further, to 2008:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/civil-service-parking-ban-in-city-urged-1.1267620

Civil service parking ban in city urged
Mon, Jun 16, 2008
Fiona Gartland

SOME 60 per cent of cars parked in Dublin city centre’s shopping districts belong to civil servants, according to a study carried out by the Dublin City Business Association (DCBA).
(snip)
Tom Coffey, CEO of DCBA says traffic problems in the city centre would be solved if civil servants left their cars behind.

AndrewJRenko

AlanG wrote: »

Yes for the convention center but certainly not for the Point

A friend suffered a nasty injury when her bike was interfered with while locked to a lamppost at the Convention Centre. There is no provision for bike parking at that recently built venue - should have been a planning requirement.

For Maynooth, the last 66 is 23.20 and a Nitelink runs on Friday and Saturday.

Kaisr Sose

What's Maynooth or any suburban location for that matter, got to do with the discussion of a revised traffic plan / cycle lane for the North Quays?

beauf

I assume the assumption is those without direct public transport links. drive. Those will be who is effected by the reduced car capacity on the quays.

beauf

I mainly use the train and a lot of the time people struggle to get standing room on it. No way could it handle any sort of increased demand.

Chuchote

Again from five years ago - can't find anyone writing about the public service parking spaces this year

https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/government-spends-e10m-on-parking-spaces-35257

Anyway, according to data that was sent to the Public Accounts Committee by the Office of Public Works, the State already owns a decent 9,500 parking spaces. However, the Government has said that this number is not enough, so to remedy the problem, 2,967 spaces are being rented in Dublin at a cost of €2,428 EACH.

Wow. Forget the car – for that amount of money you could just pay someone to carry you to work. You’d get there without any strenuous effort on your part and you wouldn’t be doing any damage to the environment with all those deadly CO2 emissions.

The State is also planning to rent another 1,608 parking spaces in various other parts of the country at a cost of €710 each.

If these plans go forward, the total bill will be in the €8.34million range. Another €2million is reportedly set aside to improve already-existing parking facilities.

Again, that’s a LOT of money on parking.

PPC

Chuchote wrote: »

Not bus only; it is the government's stated intention to move a mass of people on to bikes for shorter journeys. Cutting off bike access during rush hour would cut off access to most bike commuters.

I was just talking about motorised vehicles, as per College Green.
Cyclists would continue as normal.

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

What's Maynooth or any suburban location for that matter, got to do with the discussion of a revised traffic plan / cycle lane for the North Quays?

because that's part of the argument about who the north quays should cater to.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

Again from five years ago - can't find anyone writing about the public service parking spaces this year

https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/government-spends-e10m-on-parking-spaces-35257

I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.

HivemindXX

magicbastarder wrote: »

because that's part of the argument about who the north quays should cater to.

The north quays should be kept as it is so that people who want to get home to Maynooth from the point late at night without having to use a park and ride or take a detour? Sorry, no.

magicbastarder

exactly. but it plays into the hands of the point depot. it strengthens their hand - whether you agree with them on it or not - when their customers are legitimately able to claim that PT is not a viable (or not as viable an) option for them, so they have to drive.

Corca Baiscinn

HivemindXX wrote: »

I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.

I think there is a difference between private companies providing free parking and Government Departments doing the same.
The difference is particularly acute just now. The Government already had policies (Smarter Travel 2009) that are supposedly aimed at changing travel behaviour in urban areas to favour public transport and active travel. Not only that, but since the passing of the Climate Bill in December 2015 and ratification of the Paris Agreement in November 2016 it has a legal obligation to reduce emissions or face substantial fines from the EU. The Draft Climate Mitigation Bill was published on March 15th and Minister Naughten said on RTE this am that the actual bill will be published in the next few weeks. We are legally obliged to have it enacted by mid-June.
The Draft said that LONG-TERM there was a need for a National Parking Policy so I guess those Civil Servants and Car-Park owners are safe for a while yet but there is certainly a contradiction between saying on one hand, "Yes , we must reduce CO2 emissions" and on the other hand saying "of course we're happy to pay €X million per annum for staff parking". That's, leaving out the fact that thee are also Gov policies on air-pollution!

Chuchote

HivemindXX wrote: »

I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.

I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.

mr spuckler

Chuchote wrote: »

I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.

i currently do and would get a free parking space if i requested it. it was also the case in my prior workplace. most of the people who currently have them live within an easy public transport commute with a couple pretty much following the luas route by car...

Chuchote

And it's not taxed as Benefit-in-Kind?

mr spuckler

I just asked someone who has one and was told no.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.

I'm surprised. Every company I have worked for has had free parking and lots of it. This is not to say that they have enough parking for every employee but certainly for a large percentage if not all of them. I guess not every civil servant gets a space either. Who do you think parks in all those spaces under every office building in the city centre?

Chuchote

It really seems a no-brainer for a carbon action to either stop providing free parking spaces, or tax them as benefit-in-kind.