Contact councillors for Liffey Cycleway today/tomorrow

Chuchote

Tomorrow is the Transport Meeting of Dublin City Council, when the councillors debate whether to choose Option 7 for the Liffey Cycleway (just bicycles and buses) or the more expensive and kludgy Option 8 (bicycles, buses and cars).

Email and/or text your councillors to ask them to choose Option 7.

You'll find their contact details here (choose your area and you'll get all your local councillors):

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgFindMember.aspx

Here's a piece on why Option 8 isn't a good choice:

http://liffeycycle.com/

Annie get your Run

Done. Am not hopeful though.... Was tempted to tell them where they could shove their boardwalk!!!

tomasrojo

Yeah, sent off an email to the committee members. Least I could do. Option 8 is bad.

There's no way those boardwalks aren't going to be used by pedestrians either (the other boardwalks along the Liffey are for pedestrians), which would make an awful lot of the route de facto shared space.

Chuchote

A boardwalk is kind of an insane idea. Used to cycle along the current boardwalk in the early morning to get to work a few years ago, always meditatively mooching the idea that if the boards were slippy enough I could go over the rail and land in the water, if water indeed is what the Liffey is at that point.

mcgratheoin

Got email from Ciaran Cuffe about this - looks like he's in favour of the clunky boardwalk option - if that's what it ends up being I'll still be using the bus lane...

Chuchote

Here's the emails - you have to break them up into three lots as here to send them:

Chris Andrews <chris.andrews@dublincity.ie>, Chris Binchy <Kieran.Binchy@dublincity.ie>, Paddy Bourke <pbourkelabour@eircom.net>, Janice Boylan <janice.boylan@dublincity.ie>, Tom Brabazon <tom.brabazon@dublincity.ie>, Christy Burke <christy.burke@dublincity.ie>, Cathleen Carney-Boud <cathleen.boud@dublincity.ie>, Brendan Carr <brendan.carr@dublincity.ie>, Aine Clancy <aine.clancy1@gmail.com>, Anthony Connaghan <cllranthony.connaghan@dublincity.ie>, Patrick Costello <patrick.costello@dublincity.ie>, David Costello <davidpcostello@gmail.com>, Ciaran Cuffe <ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie>, Hazel De Nortuin <hazel.denortuin@dublincity.ie>, Daithi De Roiste <daithi.deroiste@dublincity.ie>, Daithi Doolan <daithi.doolan@dublincity.ie>, Pat Dunne <pat.dunne1@dublincity.ie>, Gaye Fagan <gaye.fagan@dublincity.ie>, Anne Feeney <anne.feeney@dublincity.ie>, Declan Flanagan <declan.flanagan@dublincity.ie>, Mannix Flynn <mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie>, Mary Freehill <freehill@eircom.net>,

Gary Gannon <gary.gannon@dublincity.ie>, Alison Gilliland <alison.gilliland@dublincity.ie>, Paul Hand <phand@dublincity.ie>, Deirdre Heney <heneydm@gmail.com>, Jane Horgan Jones <horganjones.jane@gmail.com>, Vincent Jackson <vincent.jackson@dublincity.ie>, Andrew Keegan <andrew.keegan@dublincity.ie>, Teresa Keegan <teresa.keegan@dublincity.ie>, Greg Kelly <gregkelly1916@gmail.com>, Frank Kennedy <frank.kennedy@dublincity.ie>, Dermot Lacey <dermot.lacey@labour.ie>, Micheal Mac Donncha <mmacdonncha@gmail.com>, Tina MacVeigh <tina.macveigh@dublincity.ie>, Sean Paul Mahon <seanpaul.mahon@dublincity.ie>, Ray McAdam <raymcadam@gmail.com>, Paul McAuliffe <paul.mcauliffe@dublincity.ie>, Paddy McCartan <cllrpatmccartan@gmail.com>, Ruairi McGinley <ruairi.mcginley@dublincity.ie>, Seamus McGrattan <seamus.mcgrattan@dublincity.ie>, Ray McHugh <ray.mchugh@dublincity.ie>, Andrew Montague <andrewmontague@eircom.net>,

Edel Moran <edel.moran@dublincity.ie>, Rebecca Moynihan <rebecca.moynihan@votelabour.ie>, Michael Mullooly <Michael.mullooly@dublincity.ie>, Emma Murphy <emma.murphy@dublincity.ie>, Criona Ni Dhalaigh <criona.nidhalaigh@dublincity.ie>, Naoise O Muiri <campaign@naoise.ie>, Michael O'Brien <mobrien@dublincity.ie>, Claire O'Connor <claire.oconnor@dublincity.ie>, Damien O'Farrell <damianofarrell@gmail.com>, Ciaran O'Moore <ciaran.omoore@dublincity.ie>, Larry O'Toole <larry.otoole@dublincity.ie>, Cieran Perry <cieran.perry@dublincity.ie>, Noeleen Reilly <noeleen.reilly@dublincity.ie>, Nial Ring <nialring@eircom.net>, Eilis Ryan <eilisryan.mail@gmail.com>, Norma Sammon <norma.sammon@dublincity.ie>, Paddy Smyth <paddy.smyth@dublincity.ie>, Sonya Stapleton <sonya.stapleton@dublincity.ie>

Annie get your Run

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Got email from Ciaran Cuffe about this - looks like he's in favour of the clunky boardwalk option - if that's what it ends up being I'll still be using the bus lane...

He is! which surprised me... I'll be with you in the bus lane and if they vote option 8 I think I'll leave my wallet at home and spend my euro's elsewhere as I won't be giving a red cent to the greedy business lobby who are pushing this agenda..

mcgratheoin

Annie get your Run wrote: »

He is! which surprised me...

I think that it shows how local issues trump everything for politicians. His rationale in the email was that this option

will ensure that our community is protected from additional car traffic.

It's basic nimbyism - although the Green Party claim to be the most bike friendly party, it doesn't work out like that if there might be any local opposition from constituents.

Chuchote

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I think that it shows how local issues trump everything for politicians. His rationale in the email was that this option
It's basic nimbyism - although the Green Party claim to be the most bike friendly party, it doesn't work out like that if there might be any local opposition from constituents.

It's also inaccurate. In city after city the same howl is raised - "But it'll send the traffic into the back streets!"

And if this were accurate I'd be totally against it. But it's not.

In city after city - including Dublin with the pedestrianisation of city centre streets like Grafton Street and Henry Street - nothing of the kind happened. The expected ballooning of traffic in surrounding streets never occurred.

Funny thing is that Ciaran Cuffe has a pinned tweet:

mcgratheoin

Sent him this

Dear Ciaran,

Thank your for your update on this issue, I am given to understand that this new boardwalk proposal is your preferred option.

I would implore you to re-consider your opposition to the original plan. The original proposal had the major benefit of moving private vehicular traffic in favour of public transport and cycling. While over 50% of the road space along the north quays is dedicated to the 30% of traffic in private vehicles it is difficult to argue that Dublin has any credibility as a city promoting sustainable travel. This amended plan appears to have catered entirely to the business and private vehicle lobby by essentially removing cyclists from the roads. The message sent out, either intentionally or accidentally, by this design is that cyclists have no place on public roads and must be removed, ostensibly for their own safety, but in reality to appease drivers.
In addition;
usage of the cycling lanes on the boardwalk by pedestrians (? la the Phoenix Park) would seem inevitable,
the additional unwarranted cost to the exchequer is excessive and will provide ammunition to the anti-cycling lobby regarding the cost of providing cycling infrastructure and
it seems unlikely (given the current levels of compliance with speed limits, yellow boxes and traffic signals on the north quays) that a new more complicated set of traffic management would improve the area as a route for any of the 4 stakeholder groups (private vehicles, public transport, cyclists and pedestrians).

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your assertion that this proposal provides a quality cycle route and should this plan be adopted I believe that significant numbers of cyclists will continue to use the bus lanes as at present.

Regards etc...

papu

done

Chuchote

The Liffey Cycleway could be almost like this

https://twitter.com/CitizenW0lf/status/859345256374050816

ThisRegard

That dog has more sense than many people by keeping out of the cycle lane and staying on the pedestrian side. And there's some great amount of pixels and FPS's in that vid.

magicbastarder

i hope to get time to send the mails later - but that option is worse than the current situation in that it will end up being 'job done' for the next 5 years if it goes ahead.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i hope to get time to send the mails later - but that option is worse than the current situation in that it will end up being 'job done' for the next 5 years if it goes ahead.

And then they'll be pointing at it and saying "We build cycle lanes and cyclists won't use them"! And then it will be expensively replaced with Option 7 anyway!

Annie get your Run

Chuchote wrote: »

And then they'll be pointing at it and saying "We build cycle lanes and cyclists won't use them"! And then it will be expensively replaced with Option 7 anyway!

That's pretty much what I said in my email!!

Corca Baiscinn

magicbastarder wrote: »

i hope to get time to send the mails later - but that option is worse than the current situation in that it will end up being 'job done' for the next 5 years if it goes ahead.

It will be worse than that, it will be an expensive project so your grandchildren will be lumped with it!

It's not the boardwalk as such that's the biggest problem in so far as they could say they's put a suitable surface on it, and not even the concept of shared space tho' that's not ideal. It's the tiny allocation of shared space, not even 2.85m when you allow for being out from the quay wall and not falling off the kerb. That plus the numerous conflict points with pedestrians plus the awkwardly staggered junctions at the bridges make it impractical and unsafe.

The posters who say it wont be used are dead right so our rational choice will be portrayed as ingratitude for the wonderful expensive facility we have been gifted.

Great people here are emailing but get on to your other cycling buddies too!

mcgratheoin

Chuchote wrote: »

And then they'll be pointing at it and saying "We build cycle lanes and cyclists won't use them"! And then it will be expensively replaced with Option 7 anyway!

Plus "cycle lanes are too expensive - look at the cost of the north quays!"

The big issue in my mind here is that once again an attempt to promote sustainable transport has been hijacked by the motoring lobby. The "solution" as it will probably be implemented is to take cyclists off the road, thus reinforcing the idea that roads are for cars and cars alone. There was a real chance here for Dublin to make a statement about the future direction of transport within the city centre and to prioritise cycling, walking and public transport at the expense of private car usage. Had the original plan gone ahead, then there would have been 4 - 5 lanes of traffic dedicated to sustainable transport from Heuston station to the Point (2/3 on the quays and 2 on the luas line).
I'm worried that we'll see the same wrangling over College Green followed by the same abdication of civic responsibility by our public representatives and the same retardation of Dublin's urban development.

papu

From all the Cllrs I emailed , I only got a response from Christy Burke and Dermot Lacey.

Cllr Burke said he supported Option 7 , but they would debate it and vote together on Monday as indp party. I sent him another email asking him to reconsider Option 7 for a variety of reasons and to be fair he responded

Dermot Lacey said he will be listening to the debate tomorrow and will vote next Monday, did not give what his voting preference was.

Annie get your Run

papu wrote: »

From all the Cllrs I emailed , I only got a response from Christy Burke and Dermot Lacey.

Cllr Burke said he supported Option 7 , but they would debate it and vote together on Monday as indp party. I sent him another email asking him to reconsider Option 7 for a variety of reasons and to be fair he responded

Dermot Lacey said he will be listening to the debate tomorrow and will vote next Monday, did not give what his voting preference was.

Same two people that responded to me with similar responses although Cllr Burke just said he wasn't part of the vote tomorrow.

papu

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Same two people that responded to me with similar responses although Cllr Burke just said he wasn't part of the vote tomorrow.

Yeah neither of them have a vote tomorrow as they are not members of the the Traffic Committee, but they have a vote at the full council meeting.

Annie get your Run

Got a similar reply from Ciaran Cuffe as previous poster, also replied back asking him to reconsider his position and that many regulars wouldn't use the board walk & stick to the bus lanes. His argument was something is better than nothing & not wanting to loose momentum. I argued that something, in this case, isn't better than nothing. It seems there's zero appetite in the council to approve option 7..

Chuchote

I got replies from Ciaran Cuffe, and replied back saying there wasn't a similarly forecasted boom in car traffic in NYC or in Dublin when major streets were pedestrianised; and from Christy Burke saying he wasn't a member of the S p c (?) and the issue will come up in a full city council meeting next Monday; and from Ray McAdam, who again said "huge volumes" of traffic would be bounced through to Stoneybatter; I replied to this as above.

If the council votes for Option 8 as feared, is there any way to override this decision?

Corca Baiscinn

Chuchote wrote: »

I got replies from Ciaran Cuffe, and replied back saying there wasn't a similarly forecasted boom in car traffic in NYC or in Dublin when major streets were pedestrianised; and from Christy Burke saying he wasn't a member of the S p c (?) and the issue will come up in a full city council meeting next Monday; and from Ray McAdam, who again said "huge volumes" of traffic would be bounced through to Stoneybatter; I replied to this as above.

If the council votes for Option 8 as feared, is there any way to override this decision?

SPC is Strategic Policy Committee. They cover different policy areas so not all councillors would be on the Transport one but it will move on to them. Re: could one object to Option 8 if it's voted through? I believe that because of the boardwalk element it would have to go to An Bord Pleanala and I guess one can object then. I would hope that Dublin Bus would certainly object as it will be adversly affected by the change and also that the NTA would because their objective to get Public Transport moving well in the city would also be made more difficult

Chuchote

Deedsie wrote: »

Sent individual emails to the transport committee members and also emailed the entire council with Chuchote's handy email lists.

Option 8 is a terrible decision if that is what they go for.

Oh, well done on the individual members. Do you have a list of the Transport Committee members?

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

SPC is Strategic Policy Committee. They cover different policy areas so not all councillors would be on the Transport one but it will move on to them. Re: could one object to Option 8 if it's voted through? I believe that because of the boardwalk element it would have to go to An Bord Pleanala and I guess one can object then. I would hope that Dublin Bus would certainly object as it will be adversly affected by the change and also that the NTA would because their objective to get Public Transport moving well in the city would also be made more difficult

An Bord Pleanála pay a lot more attention to associations objecting to a plan than they do to individuals, so it might be worth putting an observation then an objection in as Irish Cycling or whatever.

It would also be worth gathering witness from other countries on the main matter that worries the councillors - and it is creditable in them to be worried about this, even if they're wrong - the fear that traffic will be diverted in large amounts to small residential streets.

Corca Baiscinn

Chuchote wrote: »

Oh, well done on the individual members. Do you have a list of the Transport Committee members?

It's online if you google Dublin City Council Transport SPC. would put it up but I don't know how!



An Bord Pleanála pay a lot more attention to associations objecting to a plan than they do to individuals, so it might be worth putting an observation then an objection in as Irish Cycling or whatever.

So could we be the Boards.ie Cycling Forum Society! Galway Cycling Campaign were successful in their appeal to BP re planning permission granted by City Council re entry to Parkmore Business Park which was unsafe for cyclists and didn't respect design guidelines.

PS PS Apologies! Realised I don't know how to differentiate the quote font from the reply font either!

It would also be worth gathering witness from other countries on the main matter that worries the councillors - and it is creditable in them to be worried about this, even if they're wrong - the fear that traffic will be diverted in large amounts to small residential streets.

Yes, agreed we should do that too

Annie get your Run

Chuchote wrote: »

Oh, well done on the individual members. Do you have a list of the Transport Committee members?

It's here I did the same, emailed them individually and then block emailed the remainder from the lists you posted above.

HivemindXX

I emailed the three people off the list who I thought were the most likely to actually care about the downsides of this. So far Ciaran Cuffe is the only one to reply and he is in favour of option 8, primarily based on complaints of residents. I replied that if option 7 is unacceptable to the locals this does not make option 8 worth doing. Doing absolutely nothing would be better than option 8.

I occurred to me afterwards the locals got one of the earlier options blocked as well. The one that would have sent busses and bicycles down that way. I remember the inflammatory posters. Maybe option 7 combined with making all the surrounding minor roads no through roads by blocking them in the middle would make them happy.

It also occurred to me that a before and after survey should be done. Whatever we end up with we should know what the effect is. If we get option 8 as seems likely will this increase or decrease the flow of busses and bicycles. What is the traffic flow on the local problem areas currently and how is it affected afterwards. In other words we should know for a fact if the scheme we get is a success or a failure. We should not have to rely on anecdotes and vague feelings which allow people to claim whatever they want. The council should commission this but they probably won't. If someone wanted to crowd fund such a survey I would certainly be willing to donate.

tomasrojo

I suspect at this stage that HivemindXX is right, and leaving the road as it is would be better than Option 8.

Though, set against that, DublinTown says that Option 8 would be "an excellent cycle route"

Despite business groups first pressuring the council to allow cars to remain on Bachelor’s Walk and now also allowing cars to remain on Eden Quay, DublinTown said it “still has concerns regarding the proposed changes to Eden Quay and the process being used to make these changes.” The group said: “We are not convinced that the right process is being used and we will be seeking significant clarification in relation to this.”

Weepsie

"DublinTown" goes into greater detail about the availability of where to find paid parking than it does about Dublin Bikes. Doesn't mention cycling as an option of getting around at all but for the Dublin Bikes.

27 paid for car parks, and its not listing them all. It was some of the owners of these that prevented the LUAS being cross city in the first place. Why their opinion is taken on board is an absurd mystery.

boobycharlton

Money.