Contact councillors for Liffey Cycleway today/tomorrow

magicbastarder

HivemindXX wrote: »

I don't make a habit of emailing public representatives but I have done so a few times over the decades and this is the first time I remember getting a reply that didn't seem to be a form letter or a formulaic brush off written by a secretary.

cllr. andrew montague gave me very good responses to a couple of issues i raised, and seems to be a cyclist also.

Chuchote

There's only one solution - a cycling flyover, above the traffic and its pollution

Corca Baiscinn

Chuchote wrote: »

There's only one solution - a cycling flyover, above the traffic and its pollution

Proper order...sure we're onlya nuisance to all other road users but pray tell,do you envisage a pulley system for the steep ramp up to the flyover or will we just zoom up!

Chuchote

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Proper order...sure we're onlya nuisance to all other road users but pray tell,do you envisage a pulley system for the steep ramp up to the flyover or will we just zoom up!

Annie get your Run

HivemindXX wrote: »

It is difficult to accept and perhaps difficult to notice, but the forces arrayed against this plan, who were always against it, have chipped away at it and option 8 may be acceptable to them but it is no longer acceptable to the people it is supposed to be helping. They need to go back to the drawing board and start again, or back to a previous idea like option 4 and try to make that work. If they can't then they should drop the idea completely..

This, absolutely this. There is zero point in spending taxpayers money on an option that is not workable for the users. I said as much in my reply to him. We will be villains then for not using the lovely cycle lane they spent money on. If option 8 is voted through we all need to email them again and say we won't use it - before one hole is dug or line painted on the road.

magicbastarder

i got a short and to the point email from councillor horgan jones that she will be supporting option 7.

Corca Baiscinn

Well done all! Beidh L? Eile ag an bPaorach! I wasn't able to listen to the Livestream but the fact that Option 8 wasn't approved gives us breathing space and time to have a plan of campaign as it were.

Chuchote

Perhaps, but it gives breathing space. The most important thing is to find actual figures on what happened elsewhere - what was the effect on neighbouring streets when cycleways were made.

IrishCycle has an interesting piece

http://irishcycle.com/2017/03/19/heres-why-claims-about-the-liffey-cycle-route-are-scaremongering/

A plan to remove car traffic from Ellis Quay and Arran Quay — which allows for walking, cycling and bus priority along the quays — is the main point of contention. But what exactly are the public figures who oppose the route saying and is there any substance to it?

The two main people who have criticised the project are: Cllr Ray McAdam (Fine Gael) and Janice Boylan (Sinn Féin). There’s also the former Dublin Central Labour TD and current chairman of Stoneybatter Pride of Place, Joe Costello.

Cllr Ray McAdam has said on his website: “I will continue to lead the resistance to any proposal associated with the Liffey Cycle Route that will have a detrimental impact on Stoneybatter, Church Street, Arbour Hill, Montpelier, Infirmary Road and Phibsborough.” But what’s the bases for this and is he mainly worried about local car users?

(snip of quotes from councillors warning traffic will go into Stoneybatter, etc)

The problem with the above statements is that they are not factual. First, the council is not proposing that all of the traffic will divert up any one route — on his own website, Cllr McAdam quotes a response from the city council, which states: “…it is not considered that all of the cars that currently use this section will divert to the north side with some diverting earlier, some to the South and some to alternative modes.”

Cllr Boylan’s suggestion that the traffic will go via the “small village of Stoneybatter” is something Cllr McAdam also seems to have implied and the Dublin People newspaper reported that Joe Costello said “extra traffic will split the village of Stoneybatter”. Why would traffic which currently uses Ellis Quay (which is east of Blackhall Place) go via Stoneybatter and Mannor Street (which are northwest of Blackhall Place) when it’s nearly the oppsite direction?

It's a long piece, which merits close reading, with good figures, including the traffic now being 400 cars an hour at peak, not the 600 the councillors have worried about.

ThisRegard

Pay Kenny dealing with it now.

magicbastarder

good that kenny can speak for cyclists as a whole.

ThisRegard

If anything all that piece showed was the ineptitude of Dublin City Council as an entity.

magicbastarder

to be fair, ciaran cuffe put in a decent show.

magicbastarder

ThisRegard wrote: »

If anything all that piece showed was the ineptitude of Dublin City Council as an entity.

my wife works in DCC, and the comment cuffe made about low staffing is an issue in there. not that i'm contradicting some of the other complaints made about them.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

my wife works in DCC, and the comment cuffe made about low staffing is an issue in there. not that i'm contradicting some of the other complaints made about them.

My comment is more in relation to no communication or joined up thinking between departments, as evident in the case of that apartment building being built but the planners of the cycleway being unaware of it when planning routes.

tomasrojo

Bit about the Liffey Cycle Route and all its travails in the Irish Times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/failure-to-make-decisions-leaves-dublin-city-traffic-in-a-mess-1.3070385

magicbastarder

that's the journalist pat kenny was talking to earlier.

amyplify

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103390115&postcount=48

Thank you, I saw that but not everyone who visits the website will look at this Boards thread

papu

Cakewheels wrote: »

Snip

Yeah, but Cllr Burkes remarks, that cyclists need to start obeying the laws and must wear high viz etc etc really just shows his prejudices, all road users must start obeying the laws.

From what I saw and heard in that meeting, the Liffeycycle, if it is ever built, will be rubbish and too compromised.

Chuchote

Cakewheels wrote: »

I understand you made this point after a long frustrating meeting, but I'm calling it out anyway because I don't think you'd be the first.
Can people please not make comments like this?

Good point. Deleted. Feel free to delete your post quoting mine.

magicbastarder

interestingly, the only responses i have got from the dozen or so mails sent on the topic, the responses i got were from cuffe, horgan jones, and paul hand - and the latter two support option 7.

Chuchote

Contact emails and numbers for polite emails and texts to the Transport Committee, and a few have Twitter accounts:

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-your-council-strategic-policy-committee-corporate-policy-group/transport-traffic

Emails: Ciarán Cuffe, Chairperson <ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie>, Paul Hand <phand@dublincity.ie>, Teresa Keegan <teresa.keegan@dublincity.ie>, Frank Kennedy <frank.kennedy@dublincity.ie>, Dr Paddy Smyth <paddy.smyth@dublincity.ie>, Paddy McCartan <cllrpatmccartan@gmail.com>, Deputy Lord Mayor Larry O’Toole <larry.otoole@dublincity.ie>, Ray McHugh <ray.mchugh@dublincity.ieL, Jane Horgan-Jones <horganjones.jane@gmail.com>, Kieran Binchy <Kieran.Binchy@dublincity.ie>, Ciarán O’Moore <ciaran.omoore@dublincity.ie>, Mannix Flynn <mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie>

Phone: Ciarán Cuffe 087 2652075, Chairperson, Paul Hand 087 3390561, Teresa Keegan 087 1469902, Frank Kennedy 087 3383972, Dr Paddy Smyth 087 181 9000, Paddy McCartan 087 2248817, Deputy Lord Mayor Larry O’Toole 086 854 1940, Ray McHugh 087 9369611, Jane Horgan-Jones 086 837 5219, Kieran Binchy 087 1774365, Ciarán O’Moore 086 807 2753, Mannix Flynn 087-2246664

Twitter: @CiaranCuffe @paulphand @frankjkennedy @padsmyth @councillorpaddy @larryotoolebohs @ray_cllr @horganjonesjane @KieranBinchy @mannixflynn

Sectoral members of the committee are:
Derek Peppard, Dublin Cycling Campaign
Frank Mulligan Irish Road Haulage Association
Mr Keith Gavin, Irish Parking Association
Fiona Kelty, National Council for the Blind of Ireland
Richard Guiney, Dublin City Business Improvement District

magicbastarder

i didn't bother emailing the last five people on the list. felt like i'd be preaching to the converted or pissing into the wind.

RayCun

I got replies from Ciaran Cuffe and Paul Hand

Annie get your Run

I got a reply from Paul Hand last night giving details of how the meeting went, he said that 'the can has been kicked down the road 6 months' and that 'more reports will be carried out on option 7 and option 8 in that time'.

So perhaps this is our opportunity to educate those on the disasters of option 8 and why they should change their minds and go with option 7 (that sounds like something out of the godfather ).

tomasrojo

Ciaran Cuffe mentioned in his reply to me that trying to persuade some of the other councillors for the locality would be a good idea, as well as the more car-centric councillors. (These are not his precise words.)

http://www.ciarancuffe.com/north-inner-city-councillors/

tomasrojo

Option 8, where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream:

The proposal for Option 8 is giving the cyclists everything they want — they still have a run from a to b.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/05/lord-mayor-says-cyclists-get-everything-they-want-in-sub-standard-liffey-cycle-route-option-8/

tomasrojo

amyplify wrote: »

Thank you, I saw that but not everyone who visits the website will look at this Boards thread

Oh right, sorry, I thought you wanted to contact him. I thought you might DM him.

magicbastarder

does the lord mayor still get the free car for the year?

how about a bike shop makes a big full about presenting him with some fancy-schmancy bike and related equipment for the year, for him to use.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Option 8, where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream:


http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/05/lord-mayor-says-cyclists-get-everything-they-want-in-sub-standard-liffey-cycle-route-option-8/

Will Mr Carr still be Lord Mayor next October?

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Will Mr Carr still be Lord Mayor next October?

Don't think so. It's a one-year gig, isn't it? Don't know when he started though.

Tenzor07

Chuchote wrote: »

Will Mr Carr still be Lord Mayor next October?

Thankfully not, this busy body Nimby will have to step down, just glad that the Mayor is only an honorary type role with no real executive power.. He's quite narrow minded, short sighted and represents the car park owners over the city centre residents

Chuchote

The Lord Mayor can cast a deciding vote if a meeting is stymied, though - former Lord Mayor Cr?ona N? D?laigh used her casting vote recently against a proposal that cyclists could cycle contraflow on one-way streets, causing the proposal to fail.

HivemindXX

magicbastarder wrote: »

i didn't bother emailing the last five people on the list. felt like i'd be preaching to the converted or pissing into the wind.

I still think it is worthwhile contacting the reps from DCC and NCBI. Presumably they are already against this idea because it is so obviously bad for cyclists and pedestrians but they might be interested in determining how widespread support (or lack thereof) is.

You might contact the car and business lobby but you'd need to change your spiel a bit. "I don't see why I should have to wait like a second class citizen while busses and cyclists go past me at these new traffic lights! We're the ones paying the road tax and keeping the city going! We should be dealing with congestion by getting cyclists off the quays altogether and allow private cars in to the bus lane."

Corca Baiscinn

magicbastarder wrote: »

does the lord mayor still get the free car for the year?

how about a bike shop makes a big full about presenting him with some fancy-schmancy bike and related equipment for the year, for him to use.

Not worth wasting on him but brilliant idea for the next Mayor. Presume there's a pact so do we know who or at least what party is going to get it? BTW Mayoral elections are always in june

Chuchote

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Not worth wasting on him but brilliant idea for the next Mayor. Presume there's a pact so do we know who or at least what party is going to get it? BTW Mayoral elections are always in june

I think the parties take it in turns except in special circumstances. Will the current Deputy Lord Mayor (Larry O'Toole) be next in line, or is that how it works?

Corca Baiscinn

Chuchote wrote: »

I think the parties take it in turns except in special circumstances. Will the current Deputy Lord Mayor (Larry O'Toole) be next in line, or is that how it works?

Seems to be a pact between SF and Labour so guess SF next time. Not sure how helpful that will be for the Liffey Route, we'll need a charm offensive!

Chuchote

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Seems to be a pact between SF and Labour so guess SF next time. Not sure how helpful that will be for the Liffey Route, we'll need a charm offensive!

It would be fun to bring the Transport Committee and adjuncts on a Sunday cycle along the quays.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

It would be fun to bring the Transport Committee and adjuncts on a Sunday cycle along the quays.

08:30 on a school morning would be better.

It would also be nice to find some existing location that has the same sort of conflict between pedestrians and cyclists that option 8 will create and see what they think of that. Leeson Street bridge springs to mind but perhaps there is a better (worse) example.

Annie get your Run

Another reply, this time from Andrew Montague to say that while he's not on the committee said he would support option 7 over option 8 when it comes around to a council vote.

RayCun

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Another reply, this time from Andrew Montague to say that while he's not on the committee said he would support option 7 over option 8 when it comes around to a council vote.

yes, same here

mcgratheoin

HivemindXX wrote: »

It would also be nice to find some existing location that has the same sort of conflict between pedestrians and cyclists that option 8 will create and see what they think of that. Leeson Street bridge springs to mind but perhaps there is a better (worse) example.

A few places where I always keep to the road rather than use a bike lane or where I see pedestrians and cyclists impeding each other (not going to call it conflict). They are usually examples of where infrastructure has been built without actual regard given to the needs of bike users. The attitude of - "Option 8 is giving the cyclists everything they want" is far too prevalent - it assumes that cyclists are primarily interested in the construction of new and segregated facilities rather than the overall experience of cycling. I would imagine that many cyclists (definitely myself for one) would rather cycle in a safe shared space than have this idea that everyone needs their own little corner of the road.

• Crossing point from Westmoreland street to O'Connell Bridge - pedestrians regularly take on traffic there.
• Sean O'Casey pedestrian bridge and how it interacts with the segregated cycle lanes on both sides.
• Where the Grand Canal meets Gd Canal St. Upper and Lower - shared bike lane and footpath with segregated cycle paths crossing each other.
• Samuel Beckett bridge - bus lanes both directions with very few buses - but the cycle lanes share off-road space with pedestrians and boundaries get blurred at busy times - I always use the bus lanes.
• Phoenix Park - when you park a car there you have to cross a grass verge to get to the cycle path, you then have to cross a low fence and more grass to get to the footpath - people are going to walk on the cycle path - particularly families at the weekend with kids/buggies etc..

Chuchote

HivemindXX wrote: »

I don't know about everyone but he certainly seems to be replying directly to multiple people here including me. In fact he sent me three mails yesterday since I replied twice with the last one being around midnight. I cannot fault his work ethic or willingness to engage with the public. I don't make a habit of emailing public representatives but I have done so a few times over the decades and this is the first time I remember getting a reply that didn't seem to be a form letter or a formulaic brush off written by a secretary. "The minister values your concerns and is working to...blah blah blah".

I sympathise with his position. He has been trying to get this thing done for a very long time now and this looks like the final version. One that is finally acceptable to the residents of Stoneybatter etc and the car fans in Dublin Town and the car parks. This should be enough to get past councillors like Mannix Flynn and Nial Ring who seem to just hate cyclists.

It is difficult to accept and perhaps difficult to notice, but the forces arrayed against this plan, who were always against it, have chipped away at it and option 8 may be acceptable to them but it is no longer acceptable to the people it is supposed to be helping. They need to go back to the drawing board and start again, or back to a previous idea like option 4 and try to make that work. If they can't then they should drop the idea completely. Maybe in a few years (who am I kidding) the idea of a congestion charge will be acceptable and Stoneybatter will accept taking cars off the quays in combination with a big reduction in car traffic via the congestion charge. The people behind Dublin Town can eat a bag of dicks.

Interesting piece about Nial Ring from two years ago:

http://irishcycle.com/2015/08/03/councillor-objecting-to-cycle-route-on-mental-health-ground-is-a-serial-objector-to-cycle-paths/

hansgruber at gmail.com

Any chance of this being resurrected? It would be ideal for my commute if I decided to cycle in - which I do want, but the Quays at the moment looks a bit busy for a newbie.

Moflojo

hansgruber at gmail.com wrote: »

Any chance of this being resurrected? It would be ideal for my commute if I decided to cycle in - which I do, but the Quays at the moment looks a bit busy for a newbie.

There's talk of another Liffey Cycle demonstration next month, either for World Bicycle Day on June 3rd, or for Bike Week, which runs from the 8th of June.

hansgruber at gmail.com

That's great news. How long until they decide on it again I wonder if the demonstrations are successful...

Corca Baiscinn

hansgruber at gmail.com wrote: »

That's great news. How long until they decide on it again I wonder if the demonstrations are successful...

Sorry to tell you HansGruber that even if the demonstrations are successful it will be some years yet before we have a segregated Liffey Cycle Route. 7 possible routes have been suggested so far but somebody or other disagreed with each of them so the NTA was asked to review all the routes and come up with a final version. That report wont be out until the end of June and even when a route is proposed there will be all kinds of objections. Some of the people who objected toprevious suggested routes were Car Park Operators, Business Owners, Schools, Motoring Organisations, Cycling Organisations, Heritage Organisations, Councillors.

Then even when everybody finally agrees the money will have to be found!

So I'm afraid you wont be cycling on a segregated route for some time. In the meantime I have seen people on Boards post their commute and ask for advice re the best options for cycling and somebody who cycles from that direction ususally has good ideas of the safest route. Not sure what thread i saw those queries in but you could start your own!

Getting any kind of progress on cycling infrastructure is very slow and frustrating. In Dublin the Dublin Cycling Campaign and I Bike Dublin are working hard for people who cycle.

hansgruber at gmail.com

Great post. Thanks.

That’s a pity it’s going to prove so difficult yet again to come to a decision on a route. I’ll definitely keep an eye the progress.

I will check out those other threads regarding best/safest routes this week. Thanks again.

cdaly_

Consider cycling the luas route. Goes all the way from Heuston Station to the Point off road though you have to watch out for tram tracks and stray trams.

hansgruber at gmail.com

Ah cool! I didn't think you were allowed to cycle on those. Thanks.

tomasrojo

hansgruber at gmail.com wrote: »

Ah cool! I didn't think you were allowed to cycle on those. Thanks.

You're not, but enforcement is lax.