Google knows what transport you use

Del2005

Was just looking at my timeline in Google and noticed that it can tell when I'm driving or on my motorbike. Any idea how it knows?

colm_mcm

I'm guessing it compares your speed through traffic with other devices?

irishgeo

Del2005 wrote: »

Was just looking at my timeline in Google and noticed that it can tell when I'm driving or on my motorbike. Any idea how it knows?

GPS and motion sensors. Do you only use the bike at weekends?

Del2005

irishgeo wrote: »

GPS and motion sensors. Do you only use the bike at weekends?

Yes, weekend toy. Never thought of the motion sensors.

Del2005

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'm guessing it compares your speed through traffic with other devices?

I wasn't in traffic. There were some cars and buses that I passed but I doubt enough to compare to.

kerryked

Google knows a lot more than just that

me_irl

Same thing is happening when you're on maps.google.com and you switch on traffic. It's getting the "real time" settings of android devices. As well as when you google the opening hours of a business it'll have it's usual footfall, and then it'll show busier or quieter than usual (depending on how many people are actually in the shop).

I had maps installed (and location history on), when commuting from home to work during the week and it automatically 'tagged' these places as 'home' and 'work'.

Here's how to manage your location history.

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3118687?hl=en

Del2005

me_irl wrote: »

Same thing is happening when you're on maps.google.com and you switch on traffic. It's getting the "real time" settings of android devices. As well as when you google the opening hours of a business it'll have it's usual footfall, and then it'll show busier or quieter than usual (depending on how many people are actually in the shop).

I had maps installed (and location history on), when commuting from home to work during the week and it automatically 'tagged' these places as 'home' and 'work'.

Here's how to manage your location history.

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3118687?hl=en

I don't mind them knowing, it's just how it knows I was on a motorbike that I thought strange. I thought it could be because it was listening to me but the accelerometers in the phone seems more likely.

learn_more

I think it's just appalling how much of one's movements are learned from one's use of these kinds of apps. I'm really uncomfortable with it and I'm totally against any state laws that require data to be handed over to the state, for whatever reason. It amounts to pinpont retrospective surveillance and I think that's just plain wrong.

Alcoheda

learn_more wrote: »

I think it's just appalling how much of one's movements are learned from one's use of these kinds of apps. I'm really uncomfortable with it and I'm totally against any state laws that require data to be handed over to the state, for whatever reason. It amounts to pinpont retrospective surveillance and I think that's just plain wrong.

The state are about as in the dark as you.
That's not necessarily all good.

At least the state has some semblance of responsibility to you and your well being.

Given the anecdotal evidence of recent changes in google's behaviour I'm surprised that we aren't protected by Irish or EU law from this stuff.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057735215

This really is the thin end of a very nasty wedge.

Macy0161

learn_more wrote: »

I think it's just appalling how much of one's movements are learned from one's use of these kinds of apps.

Well I guess it depends on how you, and they, are using it. Personally, I don't expect them not to get data from me, and then rely on google maps data from other people (which I do pretty much every commute/ long journey).

GBX

learn_more wrote: »

I think it's just appalling how much of one's movements are learned from one's use of these kinds of apps. I'm really uncomfortable with it and I'm totally against any state laws that require data to be handed over to the state, for whatever reason. It amounts to pinpont retrospective surveillance and I think that's just plain wrong.

Are you an android user ? Have you read and gone through the terms and conditions & permissions before installing an app - because I would imagine 99% of people dont and because of this, they have access to this info and how the share it is out of your hands.

Atomic Pineapple

Del2005 wrote: »

I don't mind them knowing, it's just how it knows I was on a motorbike that I thought strange. I thought it could be because it was listening to me but the accelerometers in the phone seems more likely.

It's just the DetectedActivity API - https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/android/gms/location/DetectedActivity

It uses the array of sensors in the device to make a guess at what activity the user is performing, for instance its possible to know a user is walking, obviously as everyone is used to pedometers but add in a barometer and then you can tell whether a person is walking up or down stairs by detecting slight changes in the barometer readings.

It's possible to "guess" the users activity purely by being able to gather the sensor data and understand it as a whole, from a developer's point of view it will give back its guess and a percentage of how sure it is. It can can do this without getting anything like location.

Krusty_Clown

Del2005 wrote: »

Was just looking at my timeline in Google and noticed that it can tell when I'm driving or on my motorbike. Any idea how it knows?

I looked back through my timeline and some of my bike-trips are categorized as motorcycle, while others are car. I'd assume that if you are filtering while other vehicles (mobile phones) are stationary, it determines that you are on a motorbike, rather than driving a car. I never cease to be amazed (and slightly spooked) by the data that Google can collect/interpret. I was away in Bruges at the weekend, and every bar and stopping point is categorized. Boating on the canal, where I stayed, how long my flights took, where I went running, where we ate. Scary, but all information that we willingly share with them, because we don't opt out.

I hope the various police forces of the world don't ever go looking for a list of Google users who don't obey the speed limits. :eek:

irishgeo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I looked back through my timeline and some of my bike-trips are categorized as motorcycle, while others are car. I'd assume that if you are filtering while other vehicles (mobile phones) are stationary, it determines that you are on a motorbike, rather than driving a car. I never cease to be amazed (and slightly spooked) by the data that Google can collect/interpret. I was away in Bruges at the weekend, and every bar and stopping point is categorized. Boating on the canal, where I stayed, how long my flights took, where I went running, where we ate. Scary, but all information that we willingly share with them, because we don't opt out.

I hope the various police forces of the world don't ever go looking for a list of Google users who don't obey the speed limits. :eek:

they would never be able to prove who was driving.

Krusty_Clown

irishgeo wrote: »

they would never be able to prove who was driving.

No, but they could figure out what time Del2005 leaves his house every weekend on his toy, and lie in wait. If of course they were so included...

Del2005

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I looked back through my timeline and some of my bike-trips are categorized as motorcycle, while others are car. I'd assume that if you are filtering while other vehicles (mobile phones) are stationary, it determines that you are on a motorbike, rather than driving a car. I never cease to be amazed (and slightly spooked) by the data that Google can collect/interpret. I was away in Bruges at the weekend, and every bar and stopping point is categorized. Boating on the canal, where I stayed, how long my flights took, where I went running, where we ate. Scary, but all information that we willingly share with them, because we don't opt out.

I hope the various police forces of the world don't ever go looking for a list of Google users who don't obey the speed limits. :eek:

I looked at the time line again and it has driving on some sections I was riding. The sections it thought I was driving were urban where obviously I was taking it handy, but doing a bit of filtering, and the motorway. Once I hit the twisty bits and started leaning into corners it has me on the bike.

Yeah if the cops get access to our timeline that will be fun. But I'm sure that they'll just require all vehicles to have sensors instead, you've no right to use the road so they can attach any conditions for use.

projectgtr

learn_more wrote: »

I think it's just appalling how much of one's movements are learned from one's use of these kinds of apps. I'm really uncomfortable with it and I'm totally against any state laws that require data to be handed over to the state, for whatever reason. It amounts to pinpont retrospective surveillance and I think that's just plain wrong.

Its scary, i would have considered my self very tech savvy , but when i read "Data and Goliath" the stuff i learned about what is being tracked and what they can tell from it is mindblowing. Its a very interesting read to scare you but also to put you at ease

learn_more

projectgtr wrote: »

Its scary, i would have considered my self very tech savvy , but when i read "Data and Goliath" the stuff i learned about what is being tracked and what they can tell from it is mindblowing. Its a very interesting read to scare you but also to put you at ease

You can be 'Tech Savvy' but still not know a lot of what's going on.

Ubbquittious

The almighty goog is gone scarily creepy.

To what extent is it possible to pare the google tracking and google integration out of modern android versions?

Dravokivich

Only option is not to take a mobile phone with you. It's not Google specific, I'd expect apple to be doing something similar.

If it's really an issue, never use GPS or location services on a device that doesn't explicitly require it.

Ubbquittious

Dravokivich wrote: »

Only option is not to take a mobile phone with you. It's not Google specific, I'd expect apple to be doing something similar.

If it's really an issue, never use GPS or location services on a device that doesn't explicitly require it.

No way to disable this nonsense after rooting it or have it send the phone home packets to 127.0.0.1?

Atomic Pineapple

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The almighty goog is gone scarily creepy.

To what extent is it possible to pare the google tracking and google integration out of modern android versions?

Your personal data is effectively a currency and I find its worthwhile to treat it as such, there's no such thing as a free service so when I am using something that is free in terms of monetary cost I will evaluate what data it is taking and what benefit it gives me, if the trade off is worth it I don't mind, if it's not I'll stop using the service, the same as if I found the monetary cost not to be worth it.

Ubbquittious

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

Your personal data is effectively a currency and I find its worthwhile to treat it as such, there's no such thing as a free service so when I am using something that is free in terms of monetary cost I will evaluate what data it is taking and what benefit it gives me, if the trade off is worth it I don't mind, if it's not I'll stop using the service, the same as if I found the monetary cost not to be worth it.

Any opensource alternative to maps that uses openstreetmap. I don't have an Android phone, or apple at the minute but if I buy a keyone I'll be wanting to degooglify it as much as possible

Dravokivich

Ubbquittious wrote: »

No way to disable this nonsense after rooting it or have it send the phone home packets to 127.0.0.1?

You should be able to deny an application access to location services and the GPS. But I'm not familiar with how it's done. I had something on a UMI Emax that did it. But then again, I'm not sure how that'd work with a system app, such as those from Google.

Del2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Any opensource alternative to maps that uses openstreetmap. I don't have an Android phone, or apple at the minute but if I buy a keyone I'll be wanting to degooglify it as much as possible

Your network provider will still know where you are by using base stations. By removing the Google, or Apple, options from a phone you are removing the smart functionality so may as well use a dumb phone and separate GPS.

I personally can't figure out how Google makes any money from me, I never buy from ads as I use ad blocker on PC and the odd time I accidentally open an ad on the phone I immediately go back. So if they are making money from that fair enough.
Even shops have realised that CCTV can be defeated by wearing a hat so have started researching gait for marketing.

Ubbquittious

Del2005 wrote: »

Your network provider will still know where you are by using base stations. By removing the Google, or Apple, options from a phone you are removing the smart functionality so may as well use a dumb phone and separate GPS.

I personally can't figure out how Google makes any money from me, I never buy from ads as I use ad blocker on PC and the odd time I accidentally open an ad on the phone I immediately go back. So if they are making money from that fair enough.
Even shops have realised that CCTV can be defeated by wearing a hat so have started researching gait for marketing.

The network provider won't be passing anything along to the Almighty Goog though. There should be drop-in opensource replacements for the most common google apps but tis hard to know these days.

AS soon as somebody releases an opensource android app about 10+ similarly named spyware-laden versions of the same thing crop up

irishgeo

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Any opensource alternative to maps that uses openstreetmap. I don't have an Android phone, or apple at the minute but if I buy a keyone I'll be wanting to degooglify it as much as possible

navmii app uses open street map
here wego not sure what maps they use.

Del2005

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The network provider won't be passing anything along to the Almighty Goog though. There should be drop-in opensource replacements for the most common google apps but tis hard to know these days.

AS soon as somebody releases an opensource android app about 10+ similarly named spyware-laden versions of the same thing crop up

To get to the opensource app working you have to turn on Google to make it work. Maps need GPS which is controlled by the Google software, audio needs the speakers controlled by the Google software. If you buy a Google phone you have to use Google.

Thoie

It's mostly taking a guess - it's pretty good at distinguishing if I'm walking or in a car. It's excellent at knowing if I'm on a bus rather than a car. It really can't tell the difference between a ship and a plane, and will alternate between the two, when obviously the speed involved is completely different. I suspect that on a ship mid-Atlantic it loses satellites from time to time, and assumes you flew those bits or something.

Ubbquittious

Del2005 wrote: »

To get to the opensource app working you have to turn on Google to make it work. Maps need GPS which is controlled by the Google software, audio needs the speakers controlled by the Google software. If you buy a Google phone you have to use Google.

There is no techinical reason that it needs to send back any data to google for any of that and it should work without. It should be possible to also usurp the play store and replace with a 3rd-party one. I havn't looked at android much for a while or had an android phone for a few years the last one being a samsung gt-b5330 but in those days there had always been a way to hack/mod the lions share of the spyware elements out of it

ED E

Dell is totally wrong.


There are two APIs for accessing such data, you can let Play Services act as an intermediary, saving battery, or you can access HAL calls and do the legwork yourself completely independent of Googles "cloud".