Do you really need a car?

Parchment

TheDoc wrote: »

haha nice response.

What do you find idiotic about it?

I find it hard to understand how someone can be so selfish and blasé about the world around them - not even just the environment but to just cop out and only think about themselves. This seems to be the attitude many people are taking of late and its not going to help anyone.

No point going further with this - our opinions and views are polar opposites.

Parchment

Glenster wrote: »

I think someone who believes that people will stop doing something convenient that they've done for years and replace it with something less convenient for no other reason that 'its better for the environment' is naïve.

And if you can give me a single example of a body of people altruistically changing to something less convenient I will retract what I've said.

My post above addresses it - maybe people do need to change even if it is less convenient and stop being so selfish and self centered. But that kind of altruism is dead and gone now sadly.

srsly78

Parchment wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how someone can be so selfish and blasé about the world around them - not even just the environment but to just cop out and only think about themselves. This seems to be the attitude many people are taking of late and its not going to help anyone.

No point going further with this - our opinions and views are polar opposites.

The poster's opinion may not be politically correct but is pretty typical. The only way to get these people to change their behaviour is via economic incentives (ie hit them in the pocket). Unfortunately the government did the opposite when they changed motor tax. They will cop on eventually tho, diesels will be banned from cities and all ICE taxed heavily.

TheDoc

Parchment wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how someone can be so selfish and blasé about the world around them - not even just the environment but to just cop out and only think about themselves. This seems to be the attitude many people are taking of late and its not going to help anyone.

No point going further with this - our opinions and views are polar opposites.

Ah ok so you're one of the "peachier" environmental conscious people.

I've no problem with that. But you just shouldn't label people "stupid" or "an idiot" when the have a view that differs, or that maybe sheds some facts you might want to wilfully ignore.

It's nothing about being selfish, I'm just not buying higher taxation, or being forced into certain things on behalf of the "environment" when I share a planet with industry behemoths doing immeasurable multipliers of damage over me.

If the attitude people are taking is like mine, then that is good and will help properly tackle global warming and environmental issues. Because people like me are not buying bollox from environmentalist preachers, politicians or parties justifying bat **** initiatives for the sake of the environment when it has simply no measurable impact.

The change implemented by the Green party for example (hint in their name) to the tax bands, has resulted in most newer vehicles sold in Ireland being Diesel, where in most cases there is absolutely no need or requirement for them. They are inherently dirtier and more harmful then an unleaded petrol engine.

A change implemented by an environmentally conscious political party, has had a completely negative impact on the environment. Go figure : /

Dr Crayfish

Glenster wrote: »

And if you can give me a single example of a body of people altruistically changing to something less convenient I will retract what I've said.

Well when I first started cycling to work years ago it was a bit of a drag and I could easily have given up but I kept at it and eventually it became the easiest choice for me. About half the time it would take on public transport. At 36 I've never owned a car so driving in was never an option, nor would I ever even think about driving to work after seeing what's involved, I get agitated in the smallest bit of traffic if I'm driving at the weekends.

If anything there is a movement against cyclists here. Newspapers and Garda etc are trying to push the helmet and hi viz thing when cyclists die. Just making it even more hassle for cyclists so that, what, we buy cars too and sit in the traffic?

If we made cycling more attractive as an option to those within the range of city centres, it could drastically reduce traffic and allow those who actually need to be in cars to get around quicker.

TheDoc

srsly78 wrote: »

The poster's opinion may not be politically correct but is pretty typical. The only way to get these people to change their behaviour is via economic incentives (ie hit them in the pocket). Unfortunately the government did the opposite when they changed motor tax. They will cop on eventually tho, diesels will be banned from cities and all ICE taxed heavily.

The problem you have there is the assumption my behaviour requires changing

A government initiative penalising drivers financially, in the name of the environment, would potentially topple a government.

There is a reason the Green Party won't ever surface again for generations.

freshpopcorn

The people I know who drive to work do so because,
They can be as hot or cold as they want.
They can smoke.
They can listen to the radio/device as loud as they want.
They generally can drive from door to door.
Less likely to get wet.
You don't have to put up with strangers that you met on public transport.
Some people generally hate waiting at public transport stops due to getting wet and thinking about being mugged or having a lot of smoke blowing in your face.
If you have the car at work you can hope in the car and go anywhere in the evening if you get the urge.

John_Rambo

We live close to the city centre and have two cars, one each, but use public transport or the bikes for commuting. I cycle past hundreds of high powered diesel cars with one person sitting in each one. The ones that are sitting in the cars for less than 6 kilometres are obviously idiots.

That’s city and suburban life. Bad planning and one off housing in rural areas has people relying on their cars like they’re wheelchairs, there’s no hope of any public transport in most rural areas the way the population is dispersed now.

It’s easy to see why obesity is on the rise.

srsly78

TheDoc wrote: »

The problem you have there is the assumption my behaviour requires changing

A government initiative penalising drivers financially, in the name of the environment, would potentially topple a government.

There is a reason the Green Party won't ever surface again for generations.

Who said anything about driving? It's your choice of fuel that is the problem - do you honestly not understand that? Also you ALREADY get heavily penalised financially for driving - how are you not aware of this?

It's not your fault at all, the government incentivised diesel - joe punter does whatever makes economic sense. Take a look at what other countries are doing, diesel won't be a common sight in the future.

Put it this way: you WILL switch to an electric in the future, because it will be cheaper and more powerful than other options. Not because of you caring for the environment...

WHIP IT!

On the subject of cycling/walking/jogging to/from work... I believe modern office buildings should be equipped with gym-style locker-rooms. I wouldn't mind cycling to work, as long as I could shower and change somewhere comfortable and maybe keep a locker with a few bits in it.

I honestly don't know how anyone cycles to work then sits in the same clothes for eight hours then cycles home - even for short commutes... I'm aware many people who cycle change or shower - but any I worked with who cycled in an old city centre job didn't.

Personally, I would love to leave the car at home more - great feeling of freedom when you don't have the damn thing with you - but it's just not realistic for a high percentage of commuters.

Parchment

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Personally, I would love to leave the car at home more - great feeling of freedom when you don't have the damn thing with you - but it's just not realistic for a high percentage of commuters.

I thought that before - i ended up cycling a few times out of necessity and also i was finding it hard to fit exercise into my day.

I grew to love it and figured out what worked best (route/clothing etc) and now i love it.

blackbox

I'd be happy enough to cycle if I had a short commute, but I only use public transport if there is no realistic alternative. I had to get the Luas in to a meeting in Dublin earlier this year and someone (not me) farted on it.

Sleepy

It'd take me an hour and a half to get to work on public transport (2 buses, a commuter line train and a bit of walking).

I can do the same in the car in 25 minutes and drop the kids to school on the way.

Public transport only really works in Dublin if you're heading into the city centre ime.

TheDoc

srsly78 wrote: »

Who said anything about driving? It's your choice of fuel that is the problem - do you honestly not understand that? Also you ALREADY get heavily penalised financially for driving - how are you not aware of this?

It's not your fault at all, the government incentivised diesel - joe punter does whatever makes economic sense. Take a look at what other countries are doing, diesel won't be a common sight in the future.

Put it this way: you WILL switch to an electric in the future, because it will be cheaper and more powerful than other options. Not because of you caring for the environment...

Erm, I drive petrol

Craven99

TheDoc wrote: »

Erm, I drive petrol

I bet you are the type who doesn't even wash his recycling....

Dr Crayfish

John_Rambo wrote: »

We live close to the city centre and have two cars, one each, but use public transport or the bikes for commuting. I cycle past hundreds of high powered diesel cars with one person sitting in each one. The ones that are sitting in the cars for less than 6 kilometres are obviously idiots.

That’s city and suburban life. Bad planning and one off housing in rural areas has people relying on their cars like they’re wheelchairs, there’s no hope of any public transport in most rural areas the way the population is dispersed now.

It’s easy to see why obesity is on the rise.

Yes, it's bad planning, not just in the cities but all over. One off housing and badly planned towns/cities has the country super reliant on cars. As I said in another thread...

Thanks to a crazy property boom and fairly lax planning laws and corrupt politicians and brown envelopes, on a recent drive from Dublin down to Kerry (I was a passenger!) it seemed like pretty much the whole country is one big dispersed housing estate. Even around the peninsulas in the south-west there are god-awful American-style bungalows every hundred yards or so, most of which look empty. Yes the sprawl in American cities may be worse on many measures but at least they've still got vast spaces between the cities. A trip to 'rural' Ireland would be quite instructive to people who blithely suggest allowing people to build what they want where they want in the other countries such as the UK - that approach does have its merits but it could also quickly ruin many prized landscapes.

TheDoc

Craven99 wrote: »

I bet you are the type who doesn't even wash his recycling....

I'm actually pretty good with the whole green/black bin thing as I didn't find it that much of a change.

Am I scrubbing jars clean before putting them in, absolutely not.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This is why self driving vehicles don't interest me. I love driving, the feeling of being in control of a machine. It's a real passion of mine.

CoolHandBandit

Parchment wrote: »

I drove a motorbike for years and i am considering one again - so much quicker to get everywhere, cheaper to run than a car and far more fun.

You know it makes sense.

somesoldiers

Yes, commute 100km each day to work. Though I did only start driving at 39

_Brian

Couldn't manage without

Live in a rural area, use my car at work not just to get to work.

Have two cars here, herself couldn't manage either. No public transport, she works 26 miles away and then there's school drops to do with no school busses passing either.

Gael23

I have a medical condition which means as things stand I'll never be able to drive. It would be handy to drive but it's far from essential. For me it means I'll always have to live in town and be close to public transport. I'm currently in a situation where I can walk to work but that's not always going to be the case.

Dr Crayfish

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Yes, it's bad planning, not just in the cities but all over. One off housing and badly planned towns/cities has the country super reliant on cars. As I said in another thread...

But most people who live in the country do so by choice and are perfectly happy to be car reliant. I would have no intention of settling down in the city or even a Subaru. It's fine for a while but it will soon be time to go back home to a rural area where I can have a proper sized house, big garage, proper garden etc. Being car reliant doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's how I grew up and travelling by car is by far my favourite way to get around.

There is no way I should or will change where I want to live or how I want to get around becuse or a few hippy anti-car people, telling us "oh think of the children".

When all 5 of us were living at home (parents, me and 2 siblings) we had 5 cars in the household :pac:. I'd personally plan on having at least 2 cars myself in future.

jamesthepeach

The reason I have a car even though I live in a place with served buy public transport is to get out of there.
The car allows me to go anywhere there is insufficient public transport. It also allows me to go anywhere on my own timetable and detour to places that take my fancy on the way.
When I used to travel by public transport I couldn't do that. Much prefer the car. During the week though in the city public transport is my preferred option.

Shenshen

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

This is why self driving vehicles don't interest me. I love driving, the feeling of being in control of a machine. It's a real passion of mine.

Personally, I don't get that at all. I really, really dislike having to drive, and would much rather spend the time doing just about anything else. I've got this dream of sitting in a self-drive car, reading a book or maybe getting a bit of work done and actually arriving relaxed and happy at my destination.

But I'm afraid it'll be decades yet.

Rubberlegs

I'd be lost without my car. My daughter has regular hospital appointments and there is no direct bus to the hospital. So what is a 15 minute drive could turn into an hour and more of a trip each way on two buses, and her missing more school than necessary.
I'd have been lost without it when my Dad was sick, my mother doesn't drive and in his last months he couldn't. Now she is sick herself and needs to be taken to appointments. It is peace of mind for her and me to know I can be with her within half an hour if needs be.
Other than that I'd manage as live very near to schools and shops, and if I wanted to go into the nearest big town there is an excellent bus service.

Shenshen

Shenshen wrote: »

Personally, I don't get that at all. I really, really dislike having to drive, and would much rather spend the time doing just about anything else. I've got this dream of sitting in a self-drive car, reading a book or maybe getting a bit of work done and actually arriving relaxed and happy at my destination.

But I'm afraid it'll be decades yet.

I'm with the other posters, journeys pass so fast when driving compared to when not driving, on long trips I will always always vounenteer to drive. reading etc while on a journey is of no interest to me, even going to work in the morning I never understand people who say they prefer sitting on a bus reading than in their own comfy car listening to the radio, working of their own time table etc. I'd arrive much less relaxed if not driving.

rainbow kirby

I walk to nursery with my son and then either get a bus to the train station and a fast train in or else run to work. It would probably take me longer to commute by car tbh.

There is no absolute need to own a car around here. My husband has a company car and it's useful for some things but you can live well without one.

(we're in north London - zone 2)

elefant

I think the 'need' for cars in Ireland stems from a combination of cultural tendencies, and lack of safe, reliable alternatives.

I can probably count on two hands the number of people I know in the Netherlands who have cars (and those are nearly all company cars), and very many of the issues that have been brought up in this thread about why cars are absolutely required (kids, work issues, weather etc.) are applicable here too. But it's just the normal thing to cycle or get public transport everywhere.

The big non-cultural difference here that feeds the lack of reliance on cars is that the cities are designed to encourage people to try alternative means of transport (and they're flatter!).
It's safe to cycle, the public transport is reliable and frequent, and companies pay a monthly allowance to cover public transport costs to work. Facilities for cyclists are pathetic (and dangerous) in Ireland, and if you're living anywhere outside of Dublin the paucity of public transport means a car is probably a requirement.

So here in the Netherlands I don't have a car, and have no desire whatsoever to own one. I feel lazy only cycling to public transport instead of cycling all the way to work sometimes!
If I was to return to Ireland, I would probably need one.

blacklilly

I live 4km from the city centre where I work and I drive every day. I do some travelling with work and can be called out at any time. Traffic is a pain but I prefer sitting in my own nice car than sharing a bus.

Also the freedom the car provides me with is priceless. I drove to Donegal last weekend, will be hiking down the country this weekend, I wouldn't be able to do these things as easily if I didn't have a car. I'm also very independent so can't stand depending on others for lifts, going by someones timetable etc.

mrsdewinter

I live in Dublin and although I use public transport a lot, as well as cycle a fair bit, I'd find it very difficult to do without my car. Going down the country, for one thing: getting to the Reasonably Sized Village I'm from is not a problem when using public transport. But getting around to see any of my friends' houses without a car is impossible.

Shenshen

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

I'm with the other posters, journeys pass so fast when driving compared to when not driving, on long trips I will always always vounenteer to drive. reading etc while on a journey is of no interest to me, even going to work in the morning I never understand people who say they prefer sitting on a bus reading than in their own comfy car listening to the radio, working of their own time table etc. I'd arrive much less relaxed if not driving.

Tbf, I've never sat in a comfy car. Not that public transport is very comfy, but you can certainly stretch out more on a train than in a car, I find.
And I've absolutely no interest in radio, it's at best annoying background noise.

Time spent reading a book flies past, time spent having to concentrate on traffic is awful for me.

Dr Crayfish

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

Shenshen

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

Both, I suspect.
If you wanted to work somewhere, you had to live close. So the spread-out houses would have been mostly self-sustaining farms, whereas employees had to be in walking or cycling distance of their places of work.
and people walked a lot more.

My gran would have thought nothing off cycling 40 minutes each way to work summer and winter, but most people now wouldn't consider that.

Dr Crayfish

Shenshen wrote: »

My gran would have thought nothing off cycling 40 minutes each way to work summer and winter, but most people now wouldn't consider that.

My cycle varies between 27 and 37 minutes depending on wind, hangovers, and other factors! But yeah it makes sense that rural people would generally be working of their land.

Lia_lia

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

My granny says she was the only person in the neighbourhood (of about 30 houses) with a car back in the 50s. No could afford them. She only had one because she had it through her job. She worked in sales travelling around the country. Everyone cycled back then she said.

Sunny Disposition

Know an old boy who used to cycle 35 matches from where he lived to his home place, play a hurling match and cycle back for work the next day. Used to be no obesity problem back then. I'd rather drive though.

Hannibal_Smith

Honestly I could live without mine. But it makes life so much easier!

John_Rambo

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

But most people who live in the country do so by choice and are perfectly happy to be car reliant. I would have no intention of settling down in the city or even a Subaru. It's fine for a while but it will soon be time to go back home to a rural area where I can have a proper sized house, big garage, proper garden etc. Being car reliant doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's how I grew up and travelling by car is by far my favourite way to get around.

There is no way I should or will change where I want to live or how I want to get around becuse or a few hippy anti-car people, telling us "oh think of the children".

When all 5 of us were living at home (parents, me and 2 siblings) we had 5 cars in the household :pac:. I'd personally plan on having at least 2 cars myself in future.

Obviously this type of attitude can’t prevail. What if everyone felt this way?

At the moment to many people do and rural Ireland is turning in to an unhealthy housing estate that’s hard to service and police. Towns and villages are dying and people are shocked when police stations, butchers, pubs and post offices close!

Being car reliant doesn’t bother you, but it bothers your heath, the environment, the health service and the local economy.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

Rural people were connected to the land and to each other. Houses weren’t spread out as much as they are now, weather conditions and seasons mattered.

Different story now, the disconnection is obvious here on this thread. Some (not all) rural people seem afraid of the outdoors and other people. They prefer the isolation of their cage on wheels rather than the smells, sounds and people of the countryside.

It’s one thing I dislike when I’m visiting rural friends and family for a few days, the driving everywhere. It’s no wonder city people are now fitter than their rural counterparts.

jmayo

Pac1Man wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And spend your time stuck behind either some foreign tourists who have never driven on a bog road or worse still some city wans clad in lycra on their "bike to work scheme" funded state of the art racer who have no effing concept of staying on the side of the road. :mad::mad:

<snip>

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I reckon you just come on here to bragg.
First you were waving your girlfriend that's hardly out of braces in our faces and now it's three cars and a nanny.
Fecking hell next it'll be a swiming pool and jacuzzi in the backyard.

God be with the days when you were an unassuming fella from Donegal

PS they are not fecking minivans, they are MPVs.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Footpaths are extremely limited too in some places! It's like they try to discourage walking. I was stopped by the police at least once when walking around Indianapolis, more like they were checking to see if I was ok, as I wasn't black or homeless looking!

I found it is worse in Florida, the locals think you be crazy.
Also the only place I have seen a drive in funeral home.

mymo

We have 2 buses a day in this town, only going to one place, which has poor links to other towns. If you don't have a car here you're stuck, even going to the doctor outside the 4 days they're on duty here means driving to another town. We have one small supermarket, and I have been driving a couple of towns over (20 mins) to drop my daughter to a bus for college, then driving an hour in the opposite direction to work since September, (and during the bus strike it meant 2 hours driving every morning and evening) and I have to do the same after work to collect her, we can't afford for her to live near college. (If we live 0.3km further she would have got a grant, yep, 0.3kms!)
I love where I live, it's fairly rural, great for family, but without a car I couldn't live here.

freshpopcorn

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

People in the country back then generally were farmers. They weren't working in towns and cities as they do now. Some people cycled and others walked. Farmers had donkeys and carts which was often used to bring the milk to the creamery. They was generally a local shop near the church and people got a lot of their groceries their as well as growing/producing them themselves.

Glenster

freshpopcorn wrote: »

People in the country back then generally were farmers. They weren't working in towns and cities as they do now. Some people cycled and others walked. Farmers had donkeys and carts which was often used to bring the milk to the creamery. They was generally a local shop near the church and people got a lot of their groceries their as well as growing/producing them themselves.

So they were basically peasants.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Obviously this type of attitude can?t prevail. What if everyone felt this way?

Well that's a weak argument, sure what every everyone felt the same way about anything thing then it would be a total mess. Everyone doesn't want to live in rural areas so thouse that do should be allowed continue as they wish.

Bacially you don't want to live rural or spend much time there but you want to dictate who does live there and how they live. You will get the two fingers very fast with that sort of nonsense.

LirW

Do I need it? At the moment it's not necessary but it's handy with a school kid and a baby, doing all the shopping. We live in a part of D9 where there is only a crappy overpriced Spar up the road, wouldn't wanna miss a car for doing the weekly shopping.
But I'm at home at the moment and usually walk to every place in a certain distance and the sir takes the bus to town.
I swear, it only happens once in 2 months that I'm actively participating the morning madness into town and then for a good reason.

We want to move out though, so the reason why I'm keeping the car is simply insurance, to build up a reasonable NCB. Also heading to various places with the nippers on the weekend... super handy.

John_Rambo

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Well that's a weak argument, sure what every everyone felt the same way about anything thing then it would be a total mess. Everyone doesn't want to live in rural areas so thouse that do should be allowed continue as they wish.

Bacially you don't want to live rural or spend much time there but you want to dictate who does live there and how they live. You will get the two fingers very fast with that sort of nonsense.

Believe me, I've seen more of rural and wild Ireland than you have Nox! And, I care about my countryside.

My points remain valid, rural towns and villages aren't being supported..

They are dying.

Post offices are closing.

Rural Garda stations are closing.

Local businesses are suffering.

People are overly reliant on cars.

There is an obesity problem.

dfx-

I'm a major advocate for public transport use in general and especially in Dublin, you can get pretty much anywhere within a reasonable distance..

...but without a 24hour service and major capacity and frequency investments in the core routes, there are times that you can't use the network and times you can't get on board and time where you'd be quicker walking than waiting 30 minutes for three to show up at once...

Minnie Snuggles

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So how did people in the country manage before everyone owned a car? It's not that long ago. Were houses just not as spread out as they are now with the one off housing? Or did they just walk for hours a day?

I remember a lot people used to hitch a lift to town. On a 10 mile journey you could meet 7 or 8 people hitching, that was when I first started driving about 30 years ago. A few people had bad experiences from that eg. my sister got a lift from a man who drove straight through the cross he was supposed to let her out at, he kept driving to the next village 8 miles away before letting her out of the car.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dr Crayfish

I think this picture explains a lot. Our countryside is a mess. Poor planning has basically ruined the country and has people reliant on cars.