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Management Co and Holiday letting

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  • 04-05-2017 11:58am
    #1
    katy39
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭


    Hello all Im sure this must have been answered somewhere on here but I cant find it, so here goes , can the Management company in a Apartment block stop you from doing short holiday lettings ?

    p.s. most of the building is long term lets,


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    #2
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Yes they can. Check your apartment lease agreement with the management company


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    #3
    katy39
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭katy39


    dubrov wrote: »
    Yes they can. Check your apartment lease agreement with the management company

    This is the thing I cant remember ever signing a lease with them when I first moved in and we are on out third managment company now, should I have signed a lease for each one ?


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    #4
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    katy39 wrote: »
    This is the thing I cant remember ever signing a lease with them when I first moved in and we are on out third managment company now, should I have signed a lease for each one ?

    Are you an owner or tenant?

    The management company is the legal entity comprising all owners in a development.


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    #5
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭dubrov


    There should only be one management company.
    Each owner signs up to join the management company on purchase of the property.

    You are probably referring to management agent who run the management company on behalf of the owners.
    If you contact the management agent, they should have a copy of a standard lease agreement.


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    When you bought the property you would have signed a leasehold agreement amongst the hundred of pieces of paper you signed.


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    #7
    katy39
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭katy39


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Are you an owner or tenant?

    The management company is the legal entity comprising all owners in a development.

    Yes i am an owner but I have never took part in the management of the block.
    When I say managment company I meant they people brought in to do the everyday running of things such as cleaning and maintenance.


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    katy39 wrote: »
    This is the thing I cant remember ever signing a lease with them when I first moved in and we are on out third managment company now, should I have signed a lease for each one ?

    Are you a tenant or do you own the apartment?


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    #9
    Lindy97
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭Lindy97


    Common misconception I find, people calling them Management companies. That's the management agent as others have said, you, as owner are a member of the management company whether you participate or not. You would have signed a lease when you bought, so you need to check that, the management agent would have a copy of the standard one on file and should be able to email you a PDF


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    #10
    katy39
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭katy39


    Thanks everyone


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    #11
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    katy39 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone

    Were you expecting a different answer this time?


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    #12
    katy39
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭katy39


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Are you an owner or tenant?

    The management company is the legal entity comprising all owners in a development.

    Sorry, yes i'm an owner.


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    #13
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    katy39 wrote: »
    Sorry, yes i'm an owner.

    Generally anything bought more than a few years ago wouldn't have any clause about holiday letting on it. So you are probably ok.
    Have a read of it anyway to make sure.


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    #14
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    jamesthepeach wrote: »
    Generally anything bought more than a few years ago wouldn't have any clause about holiday letting on it. So you are probably ok.
    Have a read of it anyway to make sure.

    Bought mine 13 years ago and lease specifies that short term letting is prohibited.


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    #15
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Bought mine 13 years ago and lease specifies that short term letting is prohibited.


    I have two, bought 5 and 18 years ago and nothing in either.
    I've asked several friend and I would estimate out of the probably 10 or so people that read their lease for me, only one had it in there. All had bought more than 5 years ago though.

    But as I said, nothing beats reading your lease to find out what's in it or not.


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    #16
    Lindy97
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭Lindy97


    Yes, given that AirBnB etc are so new it's unlikely to be in older leases. I know we have some members in our complex doing it, no issues. The only time it becomes an issue would be if the tenants were causing a nuisance but that's true too of long term lets or even owners, then the management agent would usually contact them if there were complaints from neighbours as it would be in breach of the House Rules of the complex.


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    #17
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    Lindy97 wrote: »
    Yes, given that AirBnB etc are so new it's unlikely to be in older leases. I know we have some members in our complex doing it, no issues. The only time it becomes an issue would be if the tenants were causing a nuisance but that's true too of long term lets or even owners, then the management agent would usually contact them if there were complaints from neighbours as it would be in breach of the House Rules of the complex.

    At least a troublesome airbnbr will be gone very fast. Troublesome tenants might never be got rid of.
    And I say that as both a landlord and a tenant.


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    #18
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Airbnb is new but short term letting and holiday lets have existed forever.


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    #19
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    I don't believe they can? How you use your property is up to you. Limiting its use like this would be severe and potentially very hard to monitor or enforce.


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    #20
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Lantus wrote: »
    I don't believe they can? .

    You would be wrong.
    Lantus wrote: »
    How you use your property is up to you.

    Planning laws can restrict use, as can leasehold agreements in apartment buildings.


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    #21
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Lantus wrote: »
    I don't believe they can? How you use your property is up to you. Limiting its use like this would be severe and potentially very hard to monitor or enforce.

    Management companies can set all sorts of Covenants and conditions. I'm frequently surprised by the number of people who signed these documents without reading them or whose solicitor didn't take them through to minutiae like mine did.


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    #22
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    athtrasna wrote:
    Management companies can set all sorts of Covenants and conditions. I'm frequently surprised by the number of people who signed these documents without reading them or whose solicitor didn't take them through to minutiae like mine did.


    That's true but as per many posts enforcing is another issue.

    Assuming short term let's are prohibited the omc would need to be aware in the first instance. Then it would need proof. If it wanted to enforce the lease it would need to take a civil action against the owner which is expensive.

    Not the first thing on the to do lists of cash strapped omcs around the country.


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    #23
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Lantus wrote: »
    That's true but as per many posts enforcing is another issue.

    Assuming short term let's are prohibited the omc would need to be aware in the first instance. Then it would need proof. If it wanted to enforce the lease it would need to take a civil action against the owner which is expensive.

    Not the first thing on the to do lists of cash strapped omcs around the country.

    Not all OMCs are cash strapped, and on winning the case, they would usually claim expenses. Most unit owners wouldn't take the risk of it going to court, for fear of the costs on them.

    Better to comply than risk a large court cost and all your fellow OMC members looking at you for having to be brought to court at their expense.


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    #24
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    Paulw wrote: »
    Not all OMCs are cash strapped, and on winning the case, they would usually claim expenses. Most unit owners wouldn't take the risk of it going to court, for fear of the costs on them.

    Better to comply than risk a large court cost and all your fellow OMC members looking at you for having to be brought to court at their expense.

    I am on two management committee in apartment blocks in Dublin and I can say that not a meeting goes by without a load of complaints about apartments being rented out normally, and even more about airbnb.
    Nothing will be done about them though.

    Most people are aware that ordinary rentals are allowed. Most think airbnb is easily stopped. It's not.
    Some people, when written to, will take their properties off airbnb, but those who don't will suffer nothing.
    The owners know that what they can be told to do, and the trouble to go chasing them is just not worth it, so they just ignore notices and carry on as they were.

    Some have taken to renting units to each other and then airbnbing them in turn. But they don't even have to do this to thwart the MC.

    It's just not going to get a result chasing them.
    I'm not even going to go into the steps involved I order to get someone to stop doing airbnb.
    If you want to look them up you can research it yourself but prepare to be bored and take up a lot of your time looking for the steos and paths to a win.


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    #25
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Revenue will be involved shortly enough. The excuses will roll out then


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    #26
    jamesthepeach
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    listermint wrote: »
    Revenue will be involved shortly enough. The excuses will roll out then

    Revenue already are involved.


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    #27
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note

    Just a reminder that leases are legal documents and posts advocating breaching the conditions of any legal document are not acceptable.


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