Landlord Insurance Restrictions

godtabh

I have to renew landlord insurance.

Rang a broker I usually use. One of the restrictions is no students. Fair enough. Then he gave me a long list of government schemes that arent covered (RAS, HAP etc etc).

If insurance companies are NOT insuring these risks 1) it says a lot and 2) is this discriminatory and 3) does it prevent landlords renting to people on these schemes if the risk cant be insured?

Doesnt affect me but thought it was interesting.

TheDoc

godtabh wrote: »

I have to renew landlord insurance.

Rang a broker I usually use. One of the restrictions is no students. Fair enough. Then he gave me a long list of government schemes that arent covered (RAS, HAP etc etc).

If insurance companies are insuring these risks 1) it says a lot and 2) is this discriminatory and 3) does it prevent landlords renting to people on these schemes if the risk cant be insured?

Doesnt affect me but thought it was interesting.

This is the sort of information that if reached into the public domain wider, would probably garner much more sympathy for landlords from the public domain.

Obviously insurance is a critical requirement, and if insurance companies are literally telling you they won't cover types of tenants, then yeah, you can bet your bollox plenty of TD's will take it up as an issue to address.

Obviously I'm not a LL so don't know the intricacies of the insurance game there, but only have to look at other insurance sectors to see someone tests the water and it's not long before the rest follow. Some will hang on but gouge for the niche they have now got.

Thinking of the 10 year old car levy in place now. PRobably won't be long before insurance covering Students or assisted renters will have a gouging niche pricing, and sure what landlord will bother?

Graham

TheDoc wrote: »

This is the sort of information that if reached into the public domain wider, would probably garner much more sympathy for landlords from the public domain.

We're still in Ireland right?

The response from a rather large chunk of the public would be; ha ha about time somebody stuck it to the money grabbing landlords.

godtabh

Thinking about this more.

My mortgage says I have to have insurance. So I approach a insurance provider and get insurance subject to their restrictions.

I look for a new tenant. I've no issues with any subject to them agreeing terms. If rent to some one on HAP I no longer have insurance. If I refuse to rent to some on on HAP based on no longer having insurance am I now discriminating against some on eon the HAP scheme?

Either way I could potential but had a massive financial loss.

I would love to see the stats on why insurance wouldnt be provided for people on such schemes. I'm guessing there is a lot of claims related to the schemes.

Graham

It might be worth getting on to your local TD to see if he/she will consider raising an appropriate PQ.

godtabh

Graham wrote: »

It might be worth getting on to your local TD to see if he/she will consider raising an appropriate PQ.

My local TD is only interested in reopening police stations

bmwguy

Wow, never heard this before. At first thought it's crazy.

So, landlords cannot insure or will be loaded for students and rent allowance tenants? Surely that's grounds for they themselves to discriminate against these demographics (I know they already do).

Insurance companies dictating far too much of people's every day lives now for my liking. The industry is dysfunctional.

the_syco

bmwguy wrote: »

So, landlords cannot insure or will be loaded for students and rent allowance tenants? Surely that's grounds for they themselves to discriminate against these demographics (I know they already do).

It'll end up like getting insurance on a jap import modified to the hilt; they will give a quote of €5,000 with an excess of €10,000.

wordofwarning

There is really one main broker for landlords in Ireland, who cover students if you want to PM me

Although some brokers can find insurance for students, it is just not as easy

I have never heard of brokers refusing to quote for state rent schemes. But is makes sense. There is a higher risk involved.

Despite what people like to think, underwriters don't pull a figure out of nowhere. Someone has sat down and done the maths. They quantified the risk of renting to RAS, HAP as significantly more than renting to a professional. Refusing cover is discrimination, but they are insurers and they discriminate their pricing etc based on risk

Graham

godtabh wrote: »

If insurance companies are NOT insuring these risks 1) it says a lot and 2) is this discriminatory

I previously missed number 2)

That's a really interesting question.

Looking at the consolidated acts:

Disposal of premises and provision of accommodation.
6.—(1) A person shall not discriminate in—

(a) disposing of any estate or interest in premises,

(b) terminating any tenancy or other interest in premises, or

(c) F17[subject to subsection (1A), providing accommodation] or any services or amenities related to accommodation or ceasing to provide accommodation or any such services or amenities.

Source: http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/HTML/EN_ACT_2000_0008.HTM

It does beg the question; are insurers indirectly discriminating on one of the protected grounds.

TheDoc

Graham wrote: »

We're still in Ireland right?

The response from a rather large chunk of the public would be; ha ha about time somebody stuck it to the money grabbing landlords.

While public opinion is generally easily moulded, when there is a clear precedent or requirements that opinion can sway.

I heard landlords on the radio last year, representing bodies etc all trying to plead understanding for why landlords refuse social welfare receipients etc and I was listening just going "for **** sake, just grow a pair and say you don't want people who are historically high risk in your property".

And the presenter was as much pressing that line of questioning making the various landlords and reps look like first year politicians with their stumbling.

I think the reaction would be a lot different if it was "Well unfortunately we are dictated these terms by insurance companies, and we cannot legally let property without insurance"

Insurance companies have been getting away with cartels and rackets here for years. Anything, big or small, that puts more heat on them is welcome in my book.

They frequently initiate policy that is in conflict with the law or states policy and should be held to task for it. Especially considering the taxpayer, like the banks, is picking up a pretty big tab for the insurance market.

TheDoc

wordofwarning wrote: »

There is really one main broker for landlords in Ireland, who cover students if you want to PM me

Although some brokers can find insurance for students, it is just not as easy

I have never heard of brokers refusing to quote for state rent schemes. But is makes sense. There is a higher risk involved.

Despite what people like to think, underwriters don't pull a figure out of nowhere. Someone has sat down and done the maths. They quantified the risk of renting to RAS, HAP as significantly more than renting to a professional. Refusing cover is discrimination, but they are insurers and they discriminate their pricing etc based on risk

Plus most insurers are trying to keep the gravy train rolling and cementing their margins, rather than being adaptable to the market. It's so abundantly obvious in the car sector, that is likely no major surprise its happening here.

Also don't take their calculations or maths are bonified evidence. Know enough people in insurance and stories about insurers where "equations" can look and behave very different depending on the business request.

Insurers risk evaluations for the 10 year old car levy has been laughable.

On one hand I'd say many landlords might well welcome this sort of news, as it's an excuse to be more selective about tenants and push back on any pressures against discrimination. "Sorry, but I'm liable for insurance and I can only rent to X". The liability to insurance is a great excuse

If it is a trend that catches on and becomes more widespread, I'd say it won't be long before it makes its way to Leinster house as a topic to be dealt with.

godtabh

I rang chill today. They said that 13 of their 14 under writers won't insure social welfare tenants

Graham

godtabh wrote: »

I rang chill today. They said that 13 of their 14 under writers won't insure social welfare tenants

Interesting, it would be hard to argue that insurance doesn't count as "services or amenities related to accommodation".