TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dail prayer

zedhead

big syke wrote: »

Before work day begins is you own time.

But again forcing people who do not wish to partake to stand and observe is the main issue. If the majority of the people in my office wanted to all collectively pray before the start of work they can go for it, but I should not have to stand and observe or wait outside for it to happen.

I could not imagine any instance where it would be implemented in any other work place (apart from specifically religious institutions)

Woodville56

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

big syke

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a public building though, it's still not the place.


Just on the news there, not standing will get you thrown out or lose a days pay. http://www.newstalk.com/Dail-votes-to-make-standing-mandatory-for-prayer

That's not right.

Agreed its not right but at the same time entering the chamber when you know you are not going to stand up during prayers (i.e. just to protest by sitting down) is a pretty stupid thing to do.

Walter H Price

head in hands stuff here , like it's 2017 ... were still debating whether state run schools should be able to discriminate against kids of non religious or non catholic parents for admission , Should an Order of nuns who enslaved women , abused sold and killed babies should have ownership of a maternity hospital still chaired by the fking archbishop , whether abortion (a medical procedure practiced in almost every civilized country in the world) should be allowed here , whether blasphemy should still be considered a crime and those who legislate for change, change we need , change that people are openly calling for are voting 97 - 17 to continue to start the daily business of our parliament with a catholic prayer, id really love to say i'm shocked by this but to be honest it was epected.

I'm so done it's not even funny , country's wankered lads , last one out turn off the lights.

NinjaKirby

Woodville56 wrote: »

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

So basically "may the force be with you"?

big syke

zedhead wrote: »

But again forcing people who do not wish to partake to stand and observe is the main issue. If the majority of the people in my office wanted to all collectively pray before the start of work they can go for it, but I should not have to stand and observe or wait outside for it to happen.

I could not imagine any instance where it would be implemented in any other work place (apart from specifically religious institutions)

No one is forcing anyone to stand.

If they do not wish to partake do not come into work early!!! It is not as if they will be working while they sit and everyone else is praying. They would be merely protesting for the sake of it.

If it is implemented in you workplace your working day has not begun you have no right to enter your workplace anyway

Peregrine

big syke wrote: »

Agreed its not right but at the same time entering the chamber when you know you are not going to stand up during prayers (i.e. just to protest by sitting down) is a pretty stupid thing to do.

It would be a stupid thing to do if it was someone's private chapel or something.

It's our country's parliament and members are being told to stay out of the chamber, or stand up for the prayer's of someone else's religion or lose a day's pay. That's unimaginable in most countries yet some people here see its criticism as 'anti-Catholic'. It's unbelievable how biased some people are.

zedhead

big syke wrote: »

No one is forcing anyone to stand.

If they do not wish to partake do not come into work early!!! It is not as if they will be working while they sit and everyone else is praying.

If it is implemented in you workplace your working day has not begun you have no right to enter your workplace anyway

If it was implemented in my workplace I would be finding somewhere else to work.

The_Valeyard

Walter H Price wrote: »

I'm so done it's not even funny , country's wankered lads , last one out turn off the lights.

That's a bit hysterical now.

Thoie

The reports I've read say "At the beginning of the day's business", which to me would indicate that if work starts at 9:00, it starts with a prayer. Not that the prayer takes place at 8:59.

Even if people are allowed stay outside until after the prayer at 9:01, that would be quite disruptive, as a bunch of people file in, get their seats, take out their papers, and get themselves settled in - it would probably be at least 9:05 before any work could actually start. It's an utter waste of time.

As someone else has mentioned, it doesn't seem to take into account a non-Christian Ceann Comhairle, and also doesn't seem to account for members who can not physically stand, e.g. wheelchair users. Which means at some stage more time will be wasted again as those issues are debated in the future.

A far better idea would have those who want to pray to meet up half an hour before the start of business, pray together, then be in their seats ready to go at the start of business.

Having prayers (of any religion, or spiritual leaning) at the start of business makes it sound like praying is part of the business, when it clearly isn't.

judeboy101

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a public building though, it's still not the place.


Just on the news there, not standing will get you thrown out or lose a days pay. http://www.newstalk.com/Dail-votes-to-make-standing-mandatory-for-prayer

That's not right.

Is the dail a public building? You need an invite to get it in or be accompanied by a member. That's a private building afaik.

zedhead

Woodville56 wrote: »

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

Its not an anti catholic rant. People would have the same issue if it was protestant, muslim, jewish or any other faiths prayer. Prayer has no place in the Dail.

Walter H Price

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That's a bit hysterical now.

Really ? not sure what the point is in waiting around and hoping to see this country actually mature into a proper secular state , when quite evidently there is 0 political will.

big syke

zedhead wrote: »

If it was implemented in my workplace I would be finding somewhere else to work.

And why is that?

Do you have a problem with religious freedom or access to prayers before a work day?

Do you have a problem with Muslim daytime prayers?

The_Valeyard

Peregrine wrote: »

. It's unbelievable how biased some people.

Very true. Some people outraged at Catholics having a quick prayer in an empty chamber before work or business has begun.

ScumLord

judeboy101 wrote: »

Is the dail a public building? You need an invite to get it in or be accompanied by a member. That's a private building afaik.

I'd be utterly shocked if it wasn't a public building. What your describing is security. You probably can't go wandering around military barracks uninvited either. It doesn't make the military a private enterprise.

RobertKK

osarusan wrote: »

RTE not using the words 'compulsory', instead saying they will be 'asked' to stand. Don't know if that is significant.

Coppinger has already said she will refuse to stand.

A lot of people don't support what she stands for anyway.

ixoy

NinjaKirby wrote: »

So basically "may the force be with you"?

Or, in honour of the day, May the fourth be with you.

AryaStark

pjohnson wrote: »

Approaching 3pm....yup its time for boards anti-catholic thread!

This is not anti catholic ... it is anti idiots. I hate this type of crap. They should have left it the way it was... let the idiots stand and pray and let the progressive people sit and reflect on how stupid it is.

RobertKK

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

howamidifferent

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That's a bit hysterical now.

I dont care if they stand to recite the Kama-Sutra, they are wasting precious time while thousands are homeless and the country has many many important issues affecting peoples day to day lives. They ran on the promise of doing something, anything to solve the countries problems and then waste it talking to an imaginary being, and not the other 1000 imaginary beings that have existed over the course of history and who still exist in some parts of the world, just this particular one and fcuk all the others. So its not even inclusive. If they wanted to go that route they should allow every and any Tom, Dick or Mohamod to be allowed say their piece at the start of every session... :rolleyes:

Erik Shin

Personally, religion disgusts me, our political bodies disgust me....the sooner the Dáil is replaced with ET, John Rambo, Fungi and Dr Dre as a 4 way committee the better for the while 25 Counties.....and Leitrim

big syke

Peregrine wrote: »

It would be a stupid thing to do if it was someone's private chapel or something.

It's our country's parliament and members are being told to stay out of the chamber, or stand up for the prayer's of someone else's religion or lose a day's pay. That's unimaginable in most countries yet some people here see its criticism as 'anti-Catholic'. It's unbelievable how biased some people.

They are not being told to stay out.

They are being asked to stand up and while prayers are being said.

Again outside working hours.

Peregrine

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Very true. Some people outraged at Catholics having a quick prayer in an empty chamber before work or business has begun.

How conveniently phrased. Some people outraged at Catholics wanting to take pay away from members who don't stand for their prayer in their workplace at the time indicated to be the 'beginning of the day's business'.

keano_afc

RobertKK wrote: »

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

This, times infinity. The outcry to such a non-issue is embarrassing. Some contributors to the Journal story were mentioning human rights violations. FFS, get a grip.

ScumLord

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Very true. Some people outraged at Catholics having a quick prayer in an empty chamber before work or business has begun.

That's not what people are upset about and you must know that. Catholics have churches they can go to, why do they also need to use the dail to have prayers too? Why should people be ejected or fined for not wanting to follow other people's religious practices? How is it right for Catholics to take control over one of the most important public spaces in the country for any amount of time?

Just say your prayers on your own time, why force it on the rest of us by taking control of a public space?

The_Valeyard

AryaStark wrote: »

This is not anti catholic ... it is anti idiots. I hate this type of crap. They should have left it the way it was... let the idiots stand and pray and let the progressive people sit and reflect on how stupid it is.

So if you stand and pray you are an idiot. You are only 'progressive' if you sit. That's a bit biased now.

Harry Palmr

Ush1

RobertKK wrote: »

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

Why was it brought up and voted on in the Dail so?

ScumLord

RobertKK wrote: »

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

It shouldn't have been, it wasn't, then they bring in fines and exclusion for not praying. Why do this now other than to make a public statement of intent?

Peregrine

RobertKK wrote: »

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

Precisely. Should have left it the way it was. But our parliamentarians spent time changing it and stripping people of their pay. And the reaction is deemed to be a waste of time!

AryaStark

RobertKK wrote: »

I love the huge overreaction.

The country has real issues, this is not one of them.

It is not an overreaction and people thinking that it is is what is wrong with the country.

Walter H Price

The_Valeyard wrote: »

So if you stand and pray you are an idiot. You are only 'progressive' if you sit. That's a bit biased now.

Is it not a bit Biased to have a parliament with such a strong view (97 - 17) of 1 religion ? do you think that maybe why we still have issues like the baptism ban , blasphemy is a crime , the Archbishop is chair of the NMH because of this , and that there is the slightest chance of that chngeing anytime soon.

If they want to pray why not go to mass , or pray in their office , the Dail should be be for serious business not muttering nonsense to some made up magic man in the sky and i dont give a sh!t if you call him God , Yaweh , Allah , Odin , Zeus , Vishnu , Budda whatever it has no place in public life.

Woodville56

zedhead wrote: »

Woodville56 wrote: »

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

Its not an anti catholic rant. People would have the same issue if it was protestant, muslim, jewish or any other faiths prayer. Prayer has no place in the Dail.

Sorry but the vast majority of our democratically elected parliamentarians disagree with you on that ! Democracy sucks yeah !

ThisRegard

Woodville56 wrote: »

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

Where's the anti Catholic rants?

RobertKK

Ush1 wrote: »

Why was it brought up and voted on in the Dail so?

It is their workplace.

AryaStark

The_Valeyard wrote: »

So if you stand and pray you are an idiot. You are only 'progressive' if you sit. That's a bit biased now.

Yes that is what I think. If you want to pray then when you get up in the morning pray away ... just do not do it in work.

I think that anybody who voted to make it compulsory in an idiot and that people who want to pray while in work are idiots.

I do not think that people who pray are idiots... only the ones that insist on bringing it into the work place (esp when that work place is the government).

frag420

So does everyone in the chamber have to recite the Catholic prayer, could someone for instance maybe start with...

Dear Satan, oh holy dark one, I intend to be your slave today and do your bidding to the best of my ability, let me know how to serve you etc etc etc....

In the interest of religious freedom I am sure those that are using religious freedom as the reason for backing this prayer mumbo jumbo will have no problem with this eh?

zedhead

big syke wrote: »

And why is that?

Do you have a problem with religious freedom or access to prayers before a work day?

Do you have a problem with Muslim daytime prayers?

I would have no problem with people privately praying no matter what their religion, but where you are expected to stand and observe or GTFO would be too much for me.

I terms of having to stand outside the door until the exact point my daily job begins - giving me no ability to set myself up for the day or give any flexibility on working hours unless I was willing to partake (even by just standing) in a daily prayer would not be something I would be willing to sign up to.

RobertKK

AryaStark wrote: »

It is not an overreaction and people thinking that it is is what is wrong with the country.

I am not what is wrong with this country.

People losing their minds over a prayer, standing up, no harm is being done to anyone, people choosing to be offended is where the problem lies.

ScumLord

frag420 wrote: »

So does everyone in the chamber have to recite the Catholic prayer, could someone for instance maybe start with...

Dear Satan, oh holy dark one, I intend to be your slave today and do your bidding to the best of my ability, let me know how to serve you etc etc etc....

The 30s of silence is probably when you're expected to worship your other heathen gods.

Woodville56

ThisRegard wrote: »

Woodville56 wrote: »

I think this is the wording of the said Prayer

"Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen."

I don't think it reflects specifically Catholic dogma - more Christian than Catholic , but don't let that interfere with the daily anti catholic rant on Boards.

Where's the anti Catholic rants?

Really ??? You don't have to look very far !

realdanbreen

Pherekydes wrote: »

It's unconstitutional. I wonder will it be challenged in the courts.

No shortage of Lefties to challenge it, unless of course they have to pay for it!

dav3

Why not set up a prayer room for this crowd. Throw all the religions in there and let them do whatever they do.

Then, when they're ready to rejoin the real world, they can walk out of the prayer room and back into the D?il chamber. Maybe convert the D?il bar, which they spend most of their time in anyway, to the prayer room.

Problem solved.

Ush1

RobertKK wrote: »

It is their workplace.

And?

Their work is national issues, you know like you said, more important stuff?

southstar

Chester Copperpot wrote: »

Should have been a bit more specific. On their own time meant away from the institutions of the state where they should be focused on acting as legislators in the interests of all Irish citizens. If they want to engage in religious practice do it somewhere else

That sounds kinda desperate...in the" I have to be right all the time "sort of way.While I agree that the prayer is outdated its this constant whining( Dalek like) by the likes of Coppinger , the pettiness/opportunism of it all,that leaves me and 'Id say many people of a liberal hilt particularly unmoved by the outcome of the vote.

The_Valeyard

dav3 wrote: »

Why not set up a prayer room for this crowd. Throw all the religions in there and let them do whatever they do.

Then, when they're ready to rejoin the real world, they can walk out of the prayer room and back into the D?il chamber. Maybe convert the D?il bar, which they spend most of their time in anyway, to the prayer room.

Problem solved.

Yeah, Christians are part of the real world and greatly contribute to it.

keano_afc

frag420 wrote: »

So does everyone in the chamber have to recite the Catholic prayer, could someone for instance maybe start with...

Dear Satan, oh holy dark one, I intend to be your slave today and do your bidding to the best of my ability, let me know how to serve you etc etc etc....

In the interest of religious freedom I am sure those that are using religious freedom as the reason for backing this prayer mumbo jumbo will have no problem with this eh?

Its not a Catholic prayer.

RobertKK

Ush1 wrote: »

And?

Their work is national issues, you know like you said, more important stuff?

How long does this take?

big syke

big syke wrote: »

Before work day begins is you own time.

But it isn't before the start of the day - it marks the start.

Ceann Comhairle enters - says prayer - legislation can begin.

Can the various clerks and recorders come in after the CC or do they have to be there and set up beforehand?