Gardaí launch blasphemy probe into Stephen Fry

Rubberchikken

how could i possibly trust anything issued by the gardai after the past fiascos and no doubt, more to come.

regardless of the law, the fact that this man could speak about god on a tv show and no group or organisation starting ranting and threatening descruction may go to show how civilised ireland and the irish just might be.

Pawwed Rig

Rubberchikken wrote: »

regardless of the law, the fact that this man could speak about god on a tv show and no group or organisation starting ranting and threatening descruction may go to show how civilised ireland and the irish just might be.

Exactly. Now if we could just get legislation to match the civilised nature of the people we would be doing well. In the last 2 days the news stories I have been reading are
1. Blasphemy case
2. TDs deciding that it is now obligatory to stand for the Dail prayer
3. Children being forced to attend Catholic ceremonies and learn prayers in schools against the wishes of their parents.

In general everyday life I never encounter religious discrimination or sexism yet when dealing with the state these issues seem to arise alot

BlinkingLights

Well the people are very progressive and about 30-50 years ahead of the state which has always been a drag!

As I see it, irish people aren't particularly conservative and never have been, rather they've been browbeaten and bullied by a small, elite group of social conservatives who wrapped the Irish flag around the church in the early days of the state.

Irish people largely voted for nationalism and instead got religious fundamentalism dressed up as nationalism.

murpho999

Glenster wrote: »

People are obsessed with how the world sees us re: the blasphemy laws.

There is a significant proportion of the world who will always see us as drunk, god-bothering potato-munchers.

Don't worry about it. Live your life.

Vast majority of the world know nothing about us and just think we're part of the UK or 'England' as most foreigners view Britain as.

Either way, country and it's parliament need to shape up.

Last year, we're voiting in gay marraige and this year they're voting in forced prayers in the Dail and gardai are investigating blasphemy claims which they are obliged to do under the ridiculous laws passed by the Dail and also the government deciding to hand over the keys of a national maternity hospital to a religious order.

Time for politicians to realise we're supposed to be a republic with equal rights for all people and a complete separation of church and state.

Zebra3

paleoperson wrote: »

Not progress, more like stupidity.

The injured party is the 100s of thousands or millions of people who saw Fry saying that and were offended by it. How can there be no injured party?

Tired of the anti-catholic chip so many people in Ireland who were never adversely affected by the church seem to have.

The thing is very few people in this country have not been effected by the Roman church.

Aside from the large number of people who were raped, tortured, kidnapped and murdered by the Catholic Church, most others at some stage or other in their lives have been negatively impacted by them, be it through lack of choice with regard to education or healthcare.

It shows how brainwashed people are that despite being supporters of a terrorist organisation that has inflicted immense misery on so many Irish people and which usurped our democracy, they try to portray themselves and their evil organisation as victims.

paleoperson

Zebra3 wrote: »

The thing is very few people in this country have not been effected by the Roman church.

Aside from the large number of people who were raped, tortured, kidnapped and murdered by the Catholic Church, most others at some stage or other in their lives have been negatively impacted by them, be it through lack of choice with regard to education or healthcare.

It shows how brainwashed people are that despite being supporters of a terrorist organisation that has inflicted immense misery on so many Irish people and which usurped our democracy, they try to portray themselves and their evil organisation as victims.

First of all I'm an atheist, so you can't say I'm "brainwashed" or blinded by faith or any of that. I just think it's a bit unfair that you attack the Catholic Church so much. I think people like you like to just use the Catholic church as a punching bag, no regard for the religious people of Ireland. It's just like so much abuse hurled against this institution, as if normal catholics today had anything to do with it.

Some people that were part of the catholic church did those things and yes it was really wrong, but you don't say that Irish people are thieves and murderers if some Irish people were found to be. If the Irish state was found to be complicit in a third world exploitation scheme, and the Irish state was then replaced and totally changed with all of that denounced, you wouldn't say the Irish now are doing that. I am wondering about "kidnapped and murdered", what specifically are you referring to there, a large amount of people kidnapped and murdered?

I don't see why you feel the need to be so insulting to an institution that did so much good for everyone over the past few hundred years through education, caring for the poor, the sick and so on? You may well have a point that there were bad decisions made on the upper levels, that's totally different to directly saying the Catholic Church did those things.

Why don't you talk about how Islam has murdered countless people through terror? That would be far more accurate because 1) some of their leaders don't even denounce it 2) it's part of plenty of interpretations of their religion and 3) it continues to this day.

Nobody has a right not to be offended and I'm definintely not saying Fry should be prosecuted, just that there is some sense to the law. Saying intentionally offensive things is not something that is always allowed. It wouldn't be tolerated to say that about other groups such as muslims or gay people or a local GAA club. You wouldn't get away with publically calling a politician a "terrorist" or mass murderer even if they supported an intervention that was termed terrorism by some. You're saying these extremely offensive things with the slightest grain of truth to them. There are much worse organizations in the world. I'm clearly not defending any abuse of the past, just saying I'm tired of how some groups are treated as special snowflakes while others are considered fair as punching bags.

Zebra3

Large numbers of members of the Catholic Church raped, tortured and murdered kids and adults.

These same scumbags were in a long running process of intimidating the populace while all this was going on.

Even in recent times the Catholic Church appointed a man (I use the term lightly) to a senior position who was part of a paedophile ring.

The reaction of most Catholics was pretty much "meh". No disgust, no outrage, no attempt to get him sacked, never mind jailed.

The Roman church is a vile, evil, disgusting institution, and with regard to all the criticism it gets, it is all still very short of what it should be getting for its reign of terror.

Mint Sauce

Glad to hear the Guards have dropped this stupid case. But surely if Fry was to be investigated, then RTE should be as well, for basically inciting a well known athiest to discuss God and religion. By inviting him on, surely they would have been encouraging blasphemy.

swampgas

Irish Times reporting that the Stephen Fry blasphemy incident in Ireland has prompted New Zealand to plan to remove an archaic blasphemy law from their own rule books. How anyone thinks this isn't a global news story is beyond me.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/new-zealand-to-scrap-blasphemy-crime-after-garda-investigation-1.3077898

Edit: I see Richard Dawkins is getting involved as well.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/stephen-fry-blasphemy-ireland-probe-investigation-richard-dawkins-arrest-a7728321.html

Boggy Turf

I have to say that Fry was excellent in that Meaning of Life program. I am glad more people will watch it due to some insecure idiot.

Samaris

paleoperson wrote: »

First of all I'm an atheist, so you can't say I'm "brainwashed" or blinded by faith or any of that. I just think it's a bit unfair that you attack the Catholic Church so much. I think people like you like to just use the Catholic church as a punching bag, no regard for the religious people of Ireland. It's just like so much abuse hurled against this institution, as if normal catholics today had anything to do with it.

Well, is the alternative to say nothing and let some truly horrendous things just be swept under the rug for fear of upsetting Catholics with the notion that their Church may be ridiculously corrupt and absolutely unChristian?

paleoperson wrote: »

Some people that were part of the catholic church did those things and yes it was really wrong, but you don't say that Irish people are thieves and murderers if some Irish people were found to be. If the Irish state was found to be complicit in a third world exploitation scheme, and the Irish state was then replaced and totally changed with all of that denounced, you wouldn't say the Irish now are doing that. I am wondering about "kidnapped and murdered", what specifically are you referring to there, a large amount of people kidnapped and murdered?

Aha, but one thing you're missing there is that the Church ignored, defended, swept under the rug and denied these acts AND hid those who were outed perpetrating them, shuffling them around and not paying attention to if they just started it up again.

At that point, it is not the actions of a single evil person, it is a conspiracy of protection of their own by the Catholic Church as an institution. Also, let us please note that various institutions, including the one currently involved in the NMH business, haven't paid the compensation that they owe. So much for "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

The "kidnapping and murder" is probably the forced imprisonment of women, sometimes for their entire lives once they entered certain institutions, and the far higher than usual death rates of babies and young children in various Catholic-run institutions, which were higher than the general populace at the time. Now, it would be instructive to compare the death rates in these religious institutions to those in non-religious institutions, but we haven't really had that many of those through the periods of interest. Either way, it is pushing it right off the road to indicate that the poor innocent Catholic Church is being unfairly maligned for the actions of a very, very few. It wasn't a very, very few and it was absolutely Church policy to protect the perpetrators.

paleoperson wrote: »

I don't see why you feel the need to be so insulting to an institution that did so much good for everyone over the past few hundred years through education, caring for the poor, the sick and so on? You may well have a point that there were bad decisions made on the upper levels, that's totally different to directly saying the Catholic Church did those things.

At what point does institutional abuse and cover-ups of institutional abuse become, well, part of that institution rather than the lone actions of one or two? The Catholic Church, not just in Ireland, but also in Austria, Spain and various other countries passed that point decades ago. We didn't hear about it as much, mired as we were in the Irish Church scandals, but it opened a whole can of worms across Europe in traditionally Catholic countries. Protestant countries didn't come out of it cleanly either. This was endemic.

paleoperson wrote: »

Why don't you talk about how Islam has murdered countless people through terror? That would be far more accurate because 1) some of their leaders don't even denounce it 2) it's part of plenty of interpretations of their religion and 3) it continues to this day.

Because there are thousands of conversations per day about it and the same deal pretty much has applied to the Catholic Church (bar actually preaching murder, it's been a while since we did that). Also, this conversation is about the Church. It makes no sense to start talking about how Fry is being investigated for blasphemy against the CHRISTIAN GOD and then immediately skew into ISLAM for fear of insulting Christians further. That is ridiculous (even if it is the same God, which just makes the state of the world today even more nuts).


Also, why is it then okay to speak negatively about Islam, regardless of upsetting Muslims, but absolutely not okay to speak negatively about Catholicism even when relevant to the topic for fear of upsetting Christians? That is completely hypocritical. Finally, I'm not sure anyone in here has directly attacked Catholics (there are those who insult anyone who believes in anything, but that's pretty equal-opportunity insulting - and also pretty small-minded).

But no institution has the right not to be examined closely when it holds peoples lives in its hands. No institution is above the law. No institution is above human decency, not when it is directly responsible for human suffering. I will keep watching developments within the Catholic Church and what it's been up to and I do feel very sorry for any Catholics who are personally deeply hurt by this.


For the record, I have no truck with Islam either, it too is a deeply corruptible institution with some rotten notions. And much like I pity Catholics who are honestly and deeply hurt and injured by what the Church has done over the decades and those who never wanted to believe it true, I equally pity Muslims in the same situation, also blamed for what those in control of their religion have done with it.

Joe Don Dante

was this because of his Ros Na Run appearance ?