DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Amirani

Haven't posted in a while. Went a bit off track heading off to London and Croatia during August and then going to Electric Picnic, so very few runs done the past few weeks.

Getting back on it now though, got a 15 miler in on the weekend, couple of medium runs down already this week and gonna push it out to about 18 miles on the weekend I think. Some good motivational posts on this thread the past day or two. Feeling good - we're gonna get there!!

sillymoo

Managed 11.3 miles this evening - was running late for meeting so had to head in before could do the 12. Last 3mi were tough, ok not going to lie. Hopefully will manage 16mi on Sunday and half marathon the following week

D3PO

Lazare wrote: »

From the last few pages there doesn't seem to be any takers for the LSR meetup next Sat, with a good few unable to make it through work etc..

If there are a few that would still like to do it I'm game but I've no probs either way if people would rather pick a more suitable weekend.

edit: Was thinking around 9:30 or so at the Garda HQ in the phoenix park.

Sorry didnt see the message. what distance and pace are you planning ?

ariana`

sillymoo wrote: »

Managed 11.3 miles this evening - was running late for meeting so had to head in before could do the 12. Last 3mi were tough, ok not going to lie. Hopefully will manage 16mi on Sunday and half marathon the following week

Well done still a great distance and you stuck ot out through 3 tough miles, that'll stand to you.

Lazare

D3PO wrote: »

Sorry didnt see the message. what distance and pace are you planning ?

I was planning on 16m at not much quicker than 6:10 km but I've just gotten some news that will most likely mean I can't commit to a time, or even do it on Sat.

Sorry.

ariana`

Lazare wrote: »

I was planning on 16m at not much quicker than 6:10 km but I've just gotten some news that will most likely mean I can't commit to a time, or even do it on Sat.

Sorry.

Hope everything is ok Lazare x

Lazare

ariana` wrote: »

Hope everything is ok Lazare x

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana. We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

Sheep1978

Lazare wrote: »

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana. We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

:P haha that's made me laugh!!!

congratulations by the way

D3PO

Lazare wrote: »

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana. We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

congratulations and wave training goodbye. I had a baby in 2014 before DCM. I assumed it would be no impact to my training, how naïve of me lol.

I didn't train a day in the 7 weeks leading up to DCM

But I still managed to finish it

Wubble Wubble

skyblue46 wrote: »

Welcome back! Question for you...last year your target time for the half was between pacers and I think you paced yourself. I'm hoping for 1:45ish and wondering which of the following 3 scenarios has most training benefit. 1. Go with 1:40 pacer, blow up finish 1:48. 2. Go with 1:50 pacer, leave them near the end, finish 1:47. 3. Run alone even paced for a 1:45. Bearing in mind I feel I should try a pacer as I intend to go with the 4 hour pacers in DCM

Nice one, taking ages to catch up with logs between unpacking and various other bits and pieces before I go back to work tomorrow....

Re: the half, I reckon I'll be running near you for at least a sizeable chunk of it. As of now, I'm planning to go with option 2 above (1:50 pacer) until we reach Man O'War (7 miles) at the minimum, and pick it up from there till the finish.

1. Not a good idea IMO. First 7 miles look to be very challenging on this course. You could end up with a lot worse than 1:48 if it goes pear shaped early on.

3. Not a bad idea at all, but even pacing and effort will be hard to manage if you're not used to it over an extended distance. With this in mind, especially if you intend to run with pacers for DCM anyway, I'd say go with 2.

leesider77

Lazare wrote: »

ariana` wrote: »

Hope everything is ok Lazare x

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana.  We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

Wow - its all happening on here! Now we have a baby announcement to look forward to! Is this the first DCM novice thread baby??

Sheep1978

WW, or anyone else for that matter - should there be any target for the HM next week bearing in mind targets for the DCM. For example should those aiming for 3.30 DCM be aiming for 1.30 HM or 4hr DCM aim for 1.50 etc.? Or is it a case of run this as well as you can and reassess DCM targets then.?

ariana`

Lazare wrote: »

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana. We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

Well it did cross my mind when I saw your post

How exciting. Hope all goes well We'll all be eagerly awaiting the news

ariana`

I did the boards pmp session this morning. As usual on these pmp sessions I overshot the pace but I enjoyed the run in a "comfortably hard" way. I got a new 10m pb apparently. Anyhow, it looks like I won't manage the 3m recovery tomorrow so just wondering would it be too soon to do it tonight? Or else I could just do it on Sunday, the day after my lsr? Or a 3m east on Fri the night before my lsr?

Wubble Wubble

ariana` wrote: »

I did the boards pmp session this morning. As usual on these pmp sessions I overshot the pace but I enjoyed the run in a "comfortably hard" way. I got a new 10m pb apparently. Anyhow, it looks like I won't manage the 3m recovery tomorrow so just wondering would it be too soon to do it tonight? Or else I could just do it on Sunday, the day after my lsr? Or a 3m east on Fri the night before my lsr?

Well done on completing the 9 PMP, like I mentioned before that's the hardest session on the Boards plan!

Regarding recovery, Sunday after the LSR is probably best. I wouldn't do it this evening anyway.

Wubble Wubble

Sheep1978 wrote: »

WW, or anyone else for that matter - should there be any target for the HM next week bearing in mind targets for the DCM. For example should those aiming for 3.30 DCM be aiming for 1.30 HM or 4hr DCM aim for 1.50 etc.? Or is it a case of run this as well as you can and reassess DCM targets then.?

If you want to race it, Runner's World have a race time predictor which gives your predicted marathon time based on recent efforts. 1:41 or better for the HM (if racing it) should mean 3:30 is doable.

ariana`

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Well done on completing the 9 PMP, like I mentioned before that's the hardest session on the Boards plan!

Regarding recovery, Sunday after the LSR is probably best. I wouldn't do it this evening anyway.

Wow I must have missed that, i can't believe I've the hardest session done. You've just made my day I found it ok. I was tired near the end but I was never so tired I contemplated stopping.

Thanks. I'll probably do it Sunday so. I'm using tomorrow's running slot to go for a deep tisue sports massage, bring on the torture!

scotindublin

We had a very interesting talk with Gary O'Hanlon (2.20 marathon runner and running coach) last night at the club and he really hammered home about keeping your goal race the main thing and that often when he is doing training plans for beginners and novices that they have the marathon as a focus but also want to run pbs at all distances during the training cycle. So "keeping the main thing the main thing" really is important.

There are other more experienced runners on here than me that will give you advice re the 1/2 and how racing it hard had thr potentail to take it out of you. It really struck a chord with how my trianing/racing went last year where I pretty much gave it all in the 10 mile and 1/2.....looking back now maybe this was detrimental to the big day itself.

I certainly took a few pointers on board that I will use whenever I go on the marathon journey again.

Sheep1978 wrote: »

WW, or anyone else for that matter - should there be any target for the HM next week bearing in mind targets for the DCM. For example should those aiming for 3.30 DCM be aiming for 1.30 HM or 4hr DCM aim for 1.50 etc.? Or is it a case of run this as well as you can and reassess DCM targets then.?

Lazare

I was thinking of running it at PMP, I think that will give the best information for the day itself.

BrownEyes79

ariana` wrote: »

I did the boards pmp session this morning. As usual on these pmp sessions I overshot the pace but I enjoyed the run in a "comfortably hard" way. I got a new 10m pb apparently. Anyhow, it looks like I won't manage the 3m recovery tomorrow so just wondering would it be too soon to do it tonight? Or else I could just do it on Sunday, the day after my lsr? Or a 3m east on Fri the night before my lsr?

I did exactly the same, my pace was way too fast, there's no way i could ever do it on marathon day. I think I was afraid of going too slow so pushed hard from the start and then I couldn't slow down! I did enjoy it though but also glad it's over!!

BrownEyes79

Lazare wrote: »

Oh everything's great, thank you ariana. We're having our baby on Friday.

Gas, haven't even told my family that.

Very exciting times, enjoy every second. My baby turned 6 today, it goes by too quick

Candamir

Sheep1978 wrote: »

WW, or anyone else for that matter - should there be any target for the HM next week bearing in mind targets for the DCM. For example should those aiming for 3.30 DCM be aiming for 1.30 HM or 4hr DCM aim for 1.50 etc.? Or is it a case of run this as well as you can and reassess DCM targets then.?

2 points come to mind:

First, as Scotindublin said, there's a danger if racing it flat out that it could take too much out of you and you'd 'leave your marathon in training'.
Secondly, using HM times as a predictor of what you should be targeting might be less than useful. Looking at the other thread there's a huge amount of variation on correlation between HM and M times. Also bear in mind that we are pretty much at the toughest part of the marathon training cycle - no way are you going to be able to run your best HM next weekend with the cumulative fatigue we've been building up over the last weeks and months. So again, even if we had a reliable predictor, I'd be uncertain of its value.

So in summary, I've no idea how to gage what a target should be!

Also to add, although I won't be running the HM (due work), if I was, I'd be tempted to race it and use the result to estimate my target marathon pace. So much for logic!

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

Welcome back! Question for you...last year your target time for the half was between pacers and I think you paced yourself. I'm hoping for 1:45ish and wondering which of the following 3 scenarios has most training benefit. 1. Go with 1:40 pacer, blow up finish 1:48. 2. Go with 1:50 pacer, leave them near the end, finish 1:47. 3. Run alone even paced for a 1:45. Bearing in mind I feel I should try a pacer as I intend to go with the 4 hour pacers in DCM

I'm trying to nail down a plan now for half marathon , the course profile doesn't help with decisions. I think if you want to just race it and if you blow up so be it its not really that important of a race and I wouldn't really mind if I blew up except if I went out at PMP and couldn't hold it for a 1/2 marathon.

I've cycled the course or part of it before and know the roads well enough its going to be tough holding a fast pace for the first half.
Realistically 1.30 for me is probably going to be a push so if the 1.30 pacers run even splits the first half is going to feel like 10k pace I reckon. In my mind i'll be thinking its a 10k race just get to 10k and then its all easy from then (wishful thinking probably).

If I were you I would go with the 1.50 pacers as I think the effort level will feel like 1.45 pace for the first half and then you can start overtaking people on second half of race.

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I'm trying to nail down a plan now for half marathon , the course profile doesn't help with decisions. I think if you want to just race it and if you blow up so be it its not really that important of a race and I wouldn't really mind if I blew up except if I went out at PMP and couldn't hold it for a 1/2 marathon.

I've cycled the course or part of it before and know the roads well enough its going to be tough holding a fast pace for the first half.
Realistically 1.30 for me is probably going to be a push so if the 1.30 pacers run even splits the first half is going to feel like 10k pace I reckon. In my mind i'll be thinking its a 10k race just get to 10k and then its all easy from then (wishful thinking probably).

If I were you I would go with the 1.50 pacers as I think the effort level will feel like 1.45 pace for the first half and then you can start overtaking people on second half of race.

Yes I think that's what I'll try to do, dependent on the first 10k not taking too much out of me. I'd be surprised if the pacers try to run such a course in even splits. I will just find one at the start and ask. At least then I will have an idea what to expect when it starts.

I will probably race it unless we get direct mentoring advice not to. It's in the plan to give it socks and we're forever being told to trust the plan. Also it's 5 weeks from DCM which is plenty of time to recover. The runs on the following week might be hard on tired legs but the taper will be just around the corner.

statina

Hi folks

Haven't posted in a while but loving reading the posts- amazing progress happening with ye all.

I've been abit all over the place with my training for the past month. I did run during this time but not consistently. Got a 16 mile run in the Sunday before last with 5 miles tue and thur. Found it ok until the last 2 miles which were v tough.

Didn't get the lsr done this weekend but went out last night (in the torrential rain!!) and ran 13 miles. Found it ok. Was drowned by the end, went home and ate...everything in the house!!

Planning on running 18 miles this weekend. Giving it everything from now until the marathon, it's going to happen!

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yes I think that's what I'll try to do, dependent on the first 10k not taking too much out of me. I'd be surprised if the pacers try to run such a course in even splits. I will just find one at the start and ask. At least then I will have an idea what to expect when it starts.

I will probably race it unless we get direct mentoring advice not to. It's in the plan to give it socks and we're forever being told to trust the plan. Also it's 5 weeks from DCM which is plenty of time to recover. The runs on the following week might be hard on tired legs but the taper will be just around the corner.

I've read they will run even splits somewhere can't remember where now . I think it makes sense that they would , these guys pacing 1.50 are probably capable of running 1.20 so they are not going to notice running uphill at that pace ,it will still feel easy to them.
I think its important to pace yourself to some degree also , if for example a 1.30 pacer that I am following runs a 4 min km uphill it's not going to effect him as he's obviously running well within himself but that could hurt me later on.

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I've read they will run even splits somewhere can't remember where now . I think it makes sense that they would , these guys pacing 1.50 are probably capable of running 1.20 so they are not going to notice running uphill at that pace ,it will still feel easy to them.
I think its important to pace yourself to some degree also , if for example a 1.30 pacer that I am following runs a 4 min km uphill it's not going to effect him as he's obviously running well within himself but that could hurt me later on.

Ah I see. If that's what they have gone public with then it must be the plan. I thought they'd schedule say 57 mins out and 53 back and run it by km or mile splits on the watch rather than by feel. Food for thought for me now! Any (not that there have been many) races I have run I have gone out very easy for at least the first half.

Testosterscone

scotindublin wrote: »

We had a very interesting talk with Gary O'Hanlon (2.20 marathon runner and running coach) last night at the club and he really hammered home about keeping your goal race the main thing and that often when he is doing training plans for beginners and novices that they have the marathon as a focus but also want to run pbs at all distances during the training cycle. So "keeping the main thing the main thing" really is important.

There are other more experienced runners on here than me that will give you advice re the 1/2 and how racing it hard had thr potentail to take it out of you. It really struck a chord with how my trianing/racing went last year where I pretty much gave it all in the 10 mile and 1/2.....looking back now maybe this was detrimental to the big day itself.

I certainly took a few pointers on board that I will use whenever I go on the marathon journey again.

It's funny I was just having a discussion about this yesterday. My 2c on the matter. It's okay to really go for it on the day i.e push the pace but you need to take the following factors into account

1) How consistent has your training been throughout the plan (missed days due to niggles, illness, holidays, life etc)
2) How long were you running before the plan started
3) How many races have you tapered for so far in build up
4) Will you be allowed to properly recover after without affecting overall marathon (7-10 days of easy running)
5) How often have you overcooked training

As Novice runners you are on an upward curve with regards fitness so you will probably see PB's without the races always necessarily being an optimal race so some you can train through and still do well but recovery is not something that can be ignored as you don't have the few years of aerobic base built up so if you are in anyway unsure or any of the questions I have asked leave you nervous I would say to not worry too much about racing but don't be afraid of going hard as races will bring you on leaps and bounds more than any session at times.

dos29

statina wrote: »

Hi folks

Haven't posted in a while but loving reading the posts- amazing progress happening with ye all.

I've been abit all over the place with my training for the past month. I did run during this time but not consistently. Got a 16 mile run in the Sunday before last with 5 miles tue and thur. Found it ok until the last 2 miles which were v tough.

Didn't get the lsr done this weekend but went out last night (in the torrential rain!!) and ran 13 miles. Found it ok. Was drowned by the end, went home and ate...everything in the house!!

Planning on running 18 miles this weekend. Giving it everything from now until the marathon, it's going to happen!

I was at a similar LSR stage a couple of weeks ago. Had a 17m run that killed me over the last 3 miles and really didnt think I'd be able for the 18 the following weekend. Getting fuel right during the run completely changed that though. I had been leaving it too long before using, around mile 12. Changed this to 1 shot bloc every 2m starting at mile 7 and noticed a huge difference. Done the last few miles at PMP. Due to miscalculating had to even do an extra couple miles to get back to hotel, but was in a good state to do them and didn't mind at all!

ariana`

dos29 wrote: »

I was at a similar LSR stage a couple of weeks ago. Had a 17m run that killed me over the last 3 miles and really didnt think I'd be able for the 18 the following weekend. Getting fuel right during the run completely changed that though. I had been leaving it too long before using, around mile 12. Changed this to 1 shot bloc every 2m starting at mile 7 and noticed a huge difference. Done the last few miles at PMP. Due to miscalculating had to even do an extra couple miles to get back to hotel, but was in a good state to do them and didn't mind at all!

What are these shot blocs? Are they the same as gels? Every 2m seems quite frequent to be taking on fuel.