DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

ariana`

Spirogyra wrote: »

My failure to register in time for the now sold out Charleville Half-marathon epitomises my desperately half-hearted commitment to the Dublin City Marathon. In truth I don't like marathons, certainly not the training schedule that a conventional plan espouses. I've been reluctant to really bend mine. It might still work out ok, maybe. But I've not given myself the best chance..... There will now be no H-M in the build up.

I DNF'ed my HM, it's not the end of the world to not include a HM. All is not lost

muddypaws wrote: »

A nice little 5 mile jog this afternoon. My training buddy had some soreness, so we walked a mile. It was nice to be the one that could have kept running for once and to have to slow down for her, it's usually me holding her back.

It's funny how your mindset makes a difference to a run. ONLY 5 miles, this time last year I would have been in a heap even thinking of running 5 miles. Today it was a nice short run, no hassles, no thoughts of not being able to do it.

Yes, it amazes me now the distance i consider normal and also that it can be fitted in around "real life" when i have too. Before if things came up, i'd have let my running plans slide at the drop of a hat but now i know where there's a will (or a marathon plan staring at you every time you open the fridge) there really is a way to get it done

Kellygirl wrote: »

Based on the calculations from this page I would need 2-3 isogels every hour - that's potentially carrying 12 gels around the marathon which is daft. I carried 6 for Cork and took one every 45 mins but hit the wall at 20 miles. I was handed a mars bar and after walking a bit I ran the last few km's no bother at all. Maybe I should carry mars bars ��

http://running.competitor.com/2014/04/inside-the-magazine/the-long-run/the-long-run-eating-on-the-run_28754

I'd love to carry a mars bar but i imagine it'd be a soggy melted mess by the time i hit 20m :eek:

So tell us more, what exactly does hitting the wall mean? Did you get dizzy/woozy or was it more cramps and things?

12 does sound like a lot, i was thinking 5 getting increasingly closer together - 1hr, 2hr, 2 hr 45min, 3hr 25min, 4hrs. Or something along those lines. I might even try to buy a few today and try a similar strategy on tomorrow's LSR.

ariana`

D3PO wrote: »

just a brief update. Physio told me this week to basically try and run and see how i hold up following all the treatment. Basically dont hold back and i will either hold up or not and it will be an indicator of how likely i am to start and finish the DCM.

So I decided to get back into the swing of things with a hard 5km . Not part of my structured plan but then again nor was getting knee pain from an it band issue.

So I just went out and smashed it. No pain at all and set 5km and 1 mile PBs along the way. No sign of pain last night or today and no stiffness so i plan to get back to my training programme as of today.

this training bloc has been a total rollercoaster of emotions from thinking I wont make the start line without cortisone injections last week to smashing my 5km pb a week later.

I dont know if Im coming and going anymore !!

brownbinman wrote: »

Literally just out from physio myself too. Basically, it's not shin splints as I thought, she seems to think it's my calf which is a huge relief.

Ordered off it for few days. Given some stretching which I HAVE to do everyday. She massaged it out and feels better even walking.

Said I could attempt a short run Monday to see how I get on, so no LSR this weekend.

Overall, not the end of the world

Yippeeeeeee, great news D3PO and Brownbinman!!

Good luck Lazare, thinking of you and Mrs. Lazare today, hope all goes lovely and smoothly and you're soon cuddling your new arrival

AuldManKing

Kellygirl wrote: »

Based on the calculations from this page I would need 2-3 isogels every hour - that's potentially carrying 12 gels around the marathon which is daft. I carried 6 for Cork and took one every 45 mins but hit the wall at 20 miles. I was handed a mars bar and after walking a bit I ran the last few km's no bother at all. Maybe I should carry mars bars ��

http://running.competitor.com/2014/04/inside-the-magazine/the-long-run/the-long-run-eating-on-the-run_28754

Hitting the wall can come from a few issues - lack of training, bad fueling in the days pre race, weather on the day, how you feel on the day etc.

I'd say you'd want to have an iron stomach to take 12 gels and run 26.2 miles.
There is also lucozade on the course, maybe have someone hand you a banana on the way around.

If you have been doing training runs without gels or with minimal gels, then your body may becoming accustomed to not using that many (12) gels.

I wouldn't plan on taking 12 - it would be a recipe for sickness.

D3PO

yep cant wait to hear the good news lazar.

thanks ariana i got a lot of frustration out on my run last night now back to focused training and try to steady the ship.

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hitting the wall can come from a few issues - lack of training, bad fueling in the days pre race, weather on the day, how you feel on the day etc.

I'd say you'd want to have an iron stomach to take 12 gels and run 26.2 miles.
There is also lucozade on the course, maybe have someone hand you a banana on the way around.

If you have been doing training runs without gels or with minimal gels, then your body may becoming accustomed to not using that many (12) gels.

I wouldn't plan on taking 12 - it would be a recipe for sickness.

AMK would there be a fairly good supply of things like the lucozade on the course? I did a HM last year and they ran out of everything including water by the time i got to 9 miles. It was awful, just when i needed it. At about 10/11 miles I ended up having to ask a girl for a mouthful of her lucozade I never drink lucozade, i don't even like any fizzy/sugary drinks but my god i was gasping for something and it hit the spot to get me through the last couple of miles. I'd no gels or any other fuel during the run which was probably silly for a 2hr + run, just water. But i can still imagine something similar happening in DCM and wonder should i carry something to give me a bit of a kick should i need it (other than gels)?

brownbinman

ariana` wrote: »

AMK would there be a fairly good supply of things like the lucozade on the course? I did a HM last year and they ran out of everything including water by the time i got to 9 miles. It was awful, just when i needed it. At about 10/11 miles I ended up having to ask a girl for a mouthful of her lucozade I never drink lucozade, i don't even like any fizzy/sugary drinks but my god i was gasping for something and it hit the spot to get me through the last couple of miles. I'd no gels or any other fuel during the run which was probably silly for a 2hr + run, just water. But i can still imagine something similar happening in DCM and wonder should i carry something to give me a bit of a kick should i need it (other than gels)?

friend of mine walked, yes walked the entire route last year. Took her 8 hours. Said even when she was going through hours later there were pallets of drinks etc

ariana`

brownbinman wrote: »

friend of mine walked, yes walked the entire route last year. Took her 8 hours. Said even when she was going through hours later there were pallets of drinks etc

That's great to know thanks. I swore i'd never get caught out again but i don't really fancy carrying bottles either.

Sheep1978

Few days off for me with an Achilles problem and defo miss this weeks LSR I think. If not right by early/mid next week I'll head the physio. Was initially disappointed thinking prob miss the HM but that's not the goal so not overly arsed about that. Still 6 weeks out so should be ok.


On the carbs thing for during the race - I thought someone in a previous post (which I cant find) had said they weighed 89kg so required 33g of carbs per hour. I weighh approx. 70kg and using the calculator posted I get 50-70g of carbs. Am I miscalculating somewhere.?

D3PO

ariana` wrote: »

So tell us more, what exactly does hitting the wall mean? Did you get dizzy/woozy or was it more cramps and things?

12 does sound like a lot, i was thinking 5 getting increasingly closer together - 1hr, 2hr, 2 hr 45min, 3hr 25min, 4hrs. Or something along those lines. I might even try to buy a few today and try a similar strategy on tomorrow's LSR.

I hit the wall in 2014 before then I thought it was a bunch of hype. I literally couldnt move my legs when i hit it just imagine having a really really bad flu that has you drained of all your energy and think about how you would feel running with it after having already done 18 miles or so.

I hit the wall at about mile 19 and I was basically out for the count. It took me over 2 hours to do the last 7 miles (thats basically walking pace.)

ariana`

D3PO wrote: »

I hit the wall in 2014 before then I thought it was a bunch of hype. I literally couldnt move my legs when i hit it just imagine having a really really bad flu that has you drained of all your energy and think about how you would feel running with it after having already done 18 miles or so.

I hit the wall at about mile 19 and I was basically out for the count. It took me over 2 hours to do the last 7 miles (thats basically walking pace.)

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

It sounds like kelly got back on track with a good sugar kick (a mars bar) - did you try anything like that or were literally at a point of no return? Sorry for all the questions, just petrified of intrigued by the infamous "20m wall"

You did really well to finish by the way, it sounds like a real slog.

skyblue46

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Few days off for me with an Achilles problem and defo miss this weeks LSR I think. If not right by early/mid next week I'll head the physio. Was initially disappointed thinking prob miss the HM but that's not the goal so not overly arsed about that. Still 6 weeks out so should be ok.


On the carbs thing for during the race - I thought someone in a previous post (which I cant find) had said they weighed 89kg so required 33g of carbs per hour. I weighh approx. 70kg and using the calculator posted I get 50-70g of carbs. Am I miscalculating somewhere.?

There is no way 33g per hour would be enough. You're closer to the mark with the 50-70. High 5 suggest 3 an hour and each is 23g. Lots of people use one every half hour. Remember any banana, sports drink or jelly goes towards that total too. Probably little need to take any in the first hour.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

AMK would there be a fairly good supply of things like the lucozade on the course? I did a HM last year and they ran out of everything including water by the time i got to 9 miles. It was awful, just when i needed it. At about 10/11 miles I ended up having to ask a girl for a mouthful of her lucozade I never drink lucozade, i don't even like any fizzy/sugary drinks but my god i was gasping for something and it hit the spot to get me through the last couple of miles. I'd no gels or any other fuel during the run which was probably silly for a 2hr + run, just water. But i can still imagine something similar happening in DCM and wonder should i carry something to give me a bit of a kick should i need it (other than gels)?

As already highlighted, yep - there should be enough, especially for you as you will be in the top 50%

I recall I was pacing the 3:40 DCM group a couple of years ago and it was a very humid day, so I took a lot of lucozade sport, I hadn't had fizzy drinks in a long time previous to this and after I stopped I vomited uncontrollably.

So be careful with taking on too much without getting your body adapted to it.

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

As already highlighted, yep - there should be enough, especially for you as you will be in the top 50%

I recall I was pacing the 3:40 DCM group a couple of years ago and it was a very humid day, so I took a lot of lucozade sport, I hadn't had fizzy drinks in a long time previous to this and after I stopped I vomited uncontrollably.

So be careful with taking on too much without getting your body adapted to it.

Top 50% :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac: As long as i'm the % that finish i'll be happy

Thanks for the advice

Thinking about the day itself makes me so nervous already, anyone else?

D3PO

ariana` wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

It sounds like kelly got back on track with a good sugar kick (a mars bar) - did you try anything like that or were literally at a point of no return? Sorry for all the questions, just petrified of intrigued by the infamous "20m wall"

You did really well to finish by the way, it sounds like a real slog.

i tried but i wasnt able to kickstart things for quite a while. Gels take 20 - 30 mins to become effective so if you bonk it takes time for the gel to actually do anything for you which is why you need to take them a little in advance of need.

my problem was after half an hour of complete devastation i was then mentally shot so its the knock on impact that causes the perfect storm. TBH until I hit the last mile I was unable to get back to running.

im much better prepared to deal with it this time i hope but yeah its an horiffic thing that you really never want to experience lol

Sheep1978

ariana` wrote: »

Thinking about the day itself makes me so nervous already, anyone else?

100% Ariana, though being honest the last while I think the bigger worry is not making the start line

ariana`

D3PO wrote: »

i tried but i wasnt able to kickstart things for quite a while. Gels take 20 - 30 mins to become effective so if you bonk it takes time for the gel to actually do anything for you which is why you need to take them a little in advance of need.

my problem was after half an hour of complete devastation i was then mentally shot so its the knock on impact that causes the perfect storm. TBH until I hit the last mile I was unable to get back to running.

im much better prepared to deal with it this time i hope but yeah its an horiffic thing that you really never want to experience lol

You did really well to stay going albeit walking and to get running again at all.
Do you think looking back it was poor fueling in the first 20 m or is there anything in particular you would do differently.

I'm going to try 3-4 gels tomorrow on my 20 miler just to see how they impact me. I've only tried 1 so far so fingers crossed.

D3PO

ariana` wrote: »

You did really well to stay going albeit walking and to get running again at all.
Do you think looking back it was poor fueling in the first 20 m or is there anything in particular you would do differently.

I'm going to try 3-4 gels tomorrow on my 20 miler just to see how they impact me. I've only tried 1 so far so fingers crossed.

my family are not backward aboout slagging you off when your fail so its never an option not to keep going :pac::D its not worth the abuse to stop lol.

Poor fueling was certainly what caused it, I didnt carboload the night before which probably was a bad choice and i didnt even touch a gel until about mile 11.

This time I will take a gel from mile 4 onwards at every 4 mile interval and I will carboload too

ariana`

D3PO wrote: »

my family are not backard aboout slagging you off when your fail so its never an option not to keep going :pac::D

Poor fueling was certainly whatcaused it, I didnt carboload the night before which probably was a bad choice and i didnt even touch a gel until about mile 11.

This time I will take a gel from mile 4 onwards at every 4 mile interval and I will carboload too

Thank you so much. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience but it's a great advantage to someone like me to be able to learn through you. I have read that the need to carbload the evening before is a bit of a myth and really we should focus on all day the day before and 2-3 days before as well - bring it on i say....mmmmmmm white bread toast (drool)

leesider77

Great news D3PO and Brownbinman!
@Lazare - best of luck today!
@ariana - I'm very nervous but trying not to think about it and take it one LSR at a time. I'm one of these people who deals better with things when I know what's coming ( the kind of eejit who watches birth videos all night when they've gone into labour so they know what's ahead of them ) With this in mind I'm going to do the last 16 miles of DCM route again as part of one of my training runs - I know I had 10 less miles in my legs and it was not a good experience overall for me but last time there was nothing for me to be afraid of in the route - no huge hills that I will dread on the day. So I'll do it again just to remind myself of this!
I was supposed to do my 12 mile LSR today as I was travelling with work tomorrow. But my daughter has been sick this past week so I cancelled it. Not sure what to do now - I'm running on empty after a few sleepless nights and playing catch-up at work. Don't know if I should tackle it tomorrow tired or wait until Sunday. Part of me thinks that knowing my luck something like this will crop up before DCM so I should just go for it tomorrow as it is only 12 miles.

D3PO

ariana` wrote: »

Thank you so much. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience but it's a great advantage to someone like me to be able to learn through you. I have read that the need to carbload the evening before is a bit of a myth and really we should focus on all day the day before and 2-3 days before as well - bring it on i say....mmmmmmm white bread toast (drool)

i think theres an element of truth in both. weather its carbs in abundance the night before or through the day its effectively the same thing.

i never get white bread im in a brown bread house but this is one of the few pleasures the marathon will bring me lol

leesider77

Spirogyra wrote: »

My failure to register in time for the now sold out Charleville Half-marathon epitomises my desperately half-hearted commitment to the Dublin City Marathon. In truth I don't like marathons, certainly not the training schedule that a conventional plan espouses. I've been reluctant to really bend mine. It might still work out ok, maybe. But I've not given myself the best chance..... There will now be no H-M in the build up.

I hear you about the training schedule. I think quite a few on here have felt it this past week as well so you are not alone. How long is your longest LSR to date? I'm using the Dublin City Half as a training run  and not a race so wouldn't see the fact that you don't race one HM as a reason to feel your marathon training plan is ruined.

ariana`

leesider77 wrote: »

Great news D3PO and Brownbinman!
@Lazare - best of luck today!
@ariana - I'm very nervous but trying not to think about it and take it one LSR at a time. I'm one of these people who deals better with things when I know what's coming ( the kind of eejit who watches birth videos all night when they've gone into labour so they know what's ahead of them ) With this in mind I'm going to do the last 16 miles of DCM route again as part of one of my training runs - I know I had 10 less miles in my legs and it was not a good experience overall for me but last time there was nothing for me to be afraid of in the route - no huge hills that I will dread on the day. So I'll do it again just to remind myself of this!
I was supposed to do my 12 mile LSR today as I was travelling with work tomorrow. But my daughter has been sick this past week so I cancelled it. Not sure what to do now - I'm running on empty after a few sleepless nights and playing catch-up at work. Don't know if I should tackle it tomorrow tired or wait until Sunday. Part of me thinks that knowing my luck something like this will crop up before DCM so I should just go for it tomorrow as it is only 12 miles.

Only 12 miles :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

I'd probably do it sooner rather than later to give more recovery before you launch into next week's plan... I hate pushing out to Sunday cos it inevitably ends up impacting on Monday & Tuesday. And then i feel like i'm chasing runs all week. But that's me It's not easy when kids are sick and sleep is interrupted. I hope you have a better weekend.

D3PO wrote: »

i think theres an element of truth in both. weather its carbs in abundance the night before or through the day its effectively the same thing.

i never get white bread im in a brown bread house but this is one of the few pleasures the marathon will bring me lol

Oooooh white bread is a rare treat indeed #lifeslittlepleasures

mark_jmc

just checkin in,
glad to see everyone is doing well and that the excitement is beginning to build!
I've done 2 16 mile lsrs & 1 17 mile lsr, I'm hoping to get 2 x 18milers & 2 x 20 milers done before race day.
From my training I know that it will be a 5 hour+ marathon for me but that's ok with me. If someone told me 2 years ago that I would be running another marathon I wouldn't have believed them

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

I'd love to carry a mars bar but i imagine it'd be a soggy melted mess by the time i hit 20m :eek:

So tell us more, what exactly does hitting the wall mean? Did you get dizzy/woozy or was it more cramps and things?

12 does sound like a lot, i was thinking 5 getting increasingly closer together - 1hr, 2hr, 2 hr 45min, 3hr 25min, 4hrs. Or something along those lines. I might even try to buy a few today and try a similar strategy on tomorrow's LSR.

I don't think carrying chocolate around 26 miles is going to be feasible :-)

When I say I hit the wall I just felt I couldn't keep going any more. I literally felt I'd fall over if I kept running. I was with pacers and I felt they were going faster than we had been which they weren't and they did their best to keep me with the, but I refused and said I needed to walk. I ate the mars bar and walked for a bit and a while later stopped and started a bit and then took off again. I really don't want that to happen this time though in DCM.

Kellygirl

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hitting the wall can come from a few issues - lack of training, bad fueling in the days pre race, weather on the day, how you feel on the day etc.

I'd say you'd want to have an iron stomach to take 12 gels and run 26.2 miles.
There is also lucozade on the course, maybe have someone hand you a banana on the way around.

If you have been doing training runs without gels or with minimal gels, then your body may becoming accustomed to not using that many (12) gels.

I wouldn't plan on taking 12 - it would be a recipe for sickness.

Def not planning on 12 gels. I want to think of other options between gels ideally - fig rolls maybe or jelly beans. I wonder if jelly beans on top of gels is just too much sugar though.

ariana` wrote: »

Thank you so much. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience but it's a great advantage to someone like me to be able to learn through you. I have read that the need to carbload the evening before is a bit of a myth and really we should focus on all day the day before and 2-3 days before as well - bring it on i say....mmmmmmm white bread toast (drool)

I spoke to a running coach after Cork and they said you should be carb loading for a good few days beforehand but also not to leave yourself go hungry as if you do then you are undoing your hard work and using up glycogen in your muscles. I did leave myself starve the day before while I was wandering around the expo so going to watch that this time round and enjoy stuffing my face for a few days.

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

Def not planning on 12 gels. I want to think of other options between gels ideally - fig rolls maybe or jelly beans. I wonder if jelly beans on top of gels is just too much sugar though.



I spoke to a running coach after Cork and they said you should be carb loading for a good few days beforehand but also not to leave yourself go hungry as if you do then you are undoing your hard work and using up glycogen in your muscles. I did leave myself starve the day before while I was wandering around the expo so going to watch that this time round and enjoy stuffing my face for a few days.

Another great tip and somewhere i could easily fall down with packing & travelling the day before, sorting the little ones for the over-night and then the trip to the RDS etc.. I could easily see myself forgetting to eat or drink water. I will have to make sure i have plenty of snacks & fluids to hand. Gosh the advice on here really will be invaluable if i can just remember it all.

scotindublin

If at all possible and especially if you are Dublin based I would suggest getting to the Expo as early as you can to it opening.....even if you are going on Saturday try and get there first thing collect your number and rest/eat properly and hydrate well for the day.

Great news on the injury front....dont rush back into it and listen to your Phsyio.

On the food front you will not be short of folks on the course offering you jellies; gels and oranges etc

Lazare

Little baby girl born just after 11am, her and her Mama doing great.

Great long legs on her, 2037 novice methinks.

Sheep1978

Well done Lazare. Congratulations

scotindublin

Brilliant news