DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

brownbinman

quick question folks, I'm planning on doing an interval training session tomorrow. was out for a 7km yesterday and planning on upping milage at weekend, but I want to mix it up tomorrow.

Would sessions of 400m at a much faster pace than usual and trot back be sufficient or what would be best?

Cheers

deisedude

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Welcome aboard deisedude! Your times from this year aren't far from mine. Anything comparable will be a massive half marathon PB in Cork. Based on which, sub 4 should be a realistic target. Any idea on which plan you want to follow?
+1 on joining a club, it's helped me out and a lot and no doubt will continue to do in the future. Certainly you should be very confident of acheiving something your mother and sister would be proud of. Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Thanks Wubble Wubble. One of the coaches in the club will do up a plan for me. He said he'll see how I get on at Cork Half and tailor it from there

choons

Hey folks, thread is a great resource! Keep up the good work all, it will be be great to see everyone progress.

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Hi choons,

Welcome to the thread! That's a serious 5k time for someone "just" doing parkruns. 10k time is none too shabby either!

The bike race and weightlifting suggests you've a very good level of natural fitness. However, it's still well worth looking at the plans and building up your mileage gradually. The parkrun/1 LR strategy reminds me of something I tried (unsuccessfully) a few years ago in relation to preparing for a marathon.

Sub 4 is *very* achievable, if you can keep the buildup gradual and stay injury free. Thanks again for signing up, and best of luck!

I've taken Wubble's advice and revised my training plan by adopting the simple plan and including a ramp up period before it starts. Enjoying it and all good so far.

Question for you guys - any reason not to go full pelt at parkrun on Saturday? I fancy a PB after 3 weeks training :pac:

My Training Plan & My Strava

Eoin

heebusjeebus

Quick question regarding nutrition:
Would protein & carbs be ok the night before a race or should it be strictly carbs?

I'll be home with the folks this Saturday, the night before the Cork Half Marathon, and I wanna be sure I'm eating the right thing.

I'm hoping for a feed of steak & spuds for dinner, then eggs on toast the morning of the race. Any issues there?

Thanks

ariana`

choons wrote: »

Hey folks, thread is a great resource! Keep up the good work all, it will be be great to see everyone progress.



I've taken Wubble's advice and revised my training plan by adopting the simple plan and including a ramp up period before it starts. Enjoying it and all good so far.

Question for you guys - any reason not to go full pelt at parkrun on Saturday? I fancy a PB after 3 weeks training :pac:

My Training Plan & My Strava

Eoin

This coming Saturday? I don't see why not, go for it. I've a 5k and a 10k race lined up this month and i don't intend to hold back on either. After that races will be more longer and part of the plan e.g a 10 miler towards the end of Aug and a HM in Sept.

ariana`

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Quick question regarding nutrition:
Would protein & carbs be ok the night before a race or should it be strictly carbs?

I'll be home with the folks this Saturday, the night before the Cork Half Marathon, and I wanna be sure I'm eating the right thing.

I'm hoping for a feed of steak & spuds for dinner, then eggs on toast the morning of the race. Any issues there?

Thanks

Wouldn't be an issue for me but everyone is different :P It's a bit late now but the general advice would be to have done a trial run of what you plan to do on race-day. So for one of you long runs wear the same gear, eat the same food the evening before, morning of etc..Best of luck with the HM

heebusjeebus

ariana` wrote: »

Wouldn't be an issue for me but everyone is different :P It's a bit late now but the general advice would be to have done a trial run of what you plan to do on race-day. So for one of you long runs wear the same gear, eat the same food the evening before, morning of etc..Best of luck with the HM

Thanks. I've done the distance 3 times over the last few weekends. Eating a bowl of porridge & cup of coffee an hour before I run.
As I'll be awake earlier and traveling further for the race on Sunday, I'm thinking the eggs & toast would be better for me and last longer.

Baby75

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Quick question regarding nutrition:
Would protein & carbs be ok the night before a race or should it be strictly carbs?

I'll be home with the folks this Saturday, the night before the Cork Half Marathon, and I wanna be sure I'm eating the right thing.

I'm hoping for a feed of steak & spuds for dinner, then eggs on toast the morning of the race. Any issues there?

Thanks

Nope sounds good to me! carbs first and foremost and low protein are ok! aim for low GI Carbs day before and morning of the race. so wholemeal bread if you can and eggs are great! the protein along with carbs helps stabilize blood sugars, watch the oil on the steak but that's just incase it give's you GI issues! if you do not get that no need to worry about it. Main thing is to eat what you are used to and dont try anything new, what worked in your training will work for you now Good luck

AuldManKing

Lazare wrote: »

A question about the Wed sessions on the boards plan.

At what stage of the run is it optimal to do the hill sprints and strides?

I'm a huge advocate of strides & hill sprints.

Strides & hill sprints are a great form of speedwork for every grade of athlete - they compliment the many slower miles that are being run.

The benefit of the strides and hill sprints (note- short hill sprints 8-10 secs) are neurological - they help train the fast twitch (FT) fibers to fire when the slow twitch (ST) fibers are fatigued.

Most newbies doing a 1st marathon will be have active ST fibers but it is very important to recruit as many fibers from FT as well - as you tire in a marathon, the body then utilises the FT fibers.

This is why its better to do this sort of speed work towards the end of a run, when you are tired.

This sort of speedwork also helps with running form as its so different from the 'plod' (we all plod ) of the easier slower runs.

AuldManKing

henrietta wrote: »

Ok I really am a novice here reading everyone else's details but still think I will get there if I just keep doing my own thing and not get intimidated by others times/miles.

So I have three questions

1. At what distance does a run become a lsr? Last weekend I ran 8 miles which is furthest I've gone in a while but just went at much my usual pace. I know some here seem to knock out 8m during the week though so not a long run then. Do you just always do weekend run slower even if you feel able for faster regardless of distance?

2. Hope to follow hh1 or2 or something inbetween that I have put together myself to best suit my life but the first few weeks have quiet low mileage a little less than where I'm at now. So do i drop back when starting plan or maintain current milage until point in plan where it surpasses it?

3. Any thought on split runs? If later in the training I can't get midweek run done in one go is it ok to split it say 5miles at lunch and 6 in evening? Hopefully this won't happen too often but if it does is this a good option?Obviously I won't be splitting long weekend run.

Apologies if silly questions, starting to overthink things now as really want to give myself a good shot at this.
Thanks.

Just reading back over previous posts - this is interesting that may help others.

(1) LSR:
Your longest run of the week is your LSR - be it 5m / 8m / 16m - whatever the longest run you are doing that week - thats your LSR.

The pace of the run is to make it conversational - thats a scientific way to determine 'easy pace' .
Its called a LSR to seperate it from other runs (tempo / speed etc) but it does have a scientific purpose.

(a) The main building blocks in our bodies that allow us to run are called mitochondria - the LSR helps us make more of these and also increase the ones we have in size.

(b) The LSR helps us achieve 'time on feet' - this is important as they progress into 16-18m runs taking 2.5hrs to 3 hrs.

(c) The slower pace helps the body to develop the ability to use fat as fuel vrs glycogen (carbs/sugars etc) - this is very important come race day.

As you do more marathons, the LSR becomes part of a set of long runs - you might do a LSR 1 week and a long run with marathon paced elements another week. But for Novices - stick to whats in the plan.

(2) Current mileage is higher than where the plan is - what do I do?
Great - IMO dont cut back.

A plan is a guideline - NEVER to be set in stone.
If you are ahead in mileage terms - keep ahead - just monitor it so its keeping in line with the plans progression (if the plan increases by 10% - you increase by 10% etc)

(3) Split Runs
The general view of these is that unless you are running 50m a week then you shouldn't split a run.
However - and there is always a however.........

I agree that you should never split a long run - these are golden.
For a midweek run - if the only way you can get the mileage done (due to life getting in the way) is by splitting - then split it - yes its best not to split - but splitting is better than bot doing it

Make the plan work for you.

Sheep1978

How much of a different should there be between the runs marked as 'easy' and a LSR.?

Wubble Wubble

Sheep1978 wrote: »

How much of a different should there be between the runs marked as 'easy' and a LSR.?

This is one of those occasions where I shamelessly nick from someone else thanks to Myles for sharing his expertise, I couldn't even dream of explaining it as well as this....

Long Slow Run

Wubble Wubble

choons wrote: »

Hey folks, thread is a great resource! Keep up the good work all, it will be be great to see everyone progress.



I've taken Wubble's advice and revised my training plan by adopting the simple plan and including a ramp up period before it starts. Enjoying it and all good so far.

Question for you guys - any reason not to go full pelt at parkrun on Saturday? I fancy a PB after 3 weeks training :pac:

My Training Plan & My Strava

Eoin

I'd say give it a go. 148 days out, you can live a little if you do, just remember to keep it very easy on Sunday. Hard days hard, easy days easy, as some more knowledgeable folk around here often say.

Wubble Wubble

brownbinman wrote: »

quick question folks, I'm planning on doing an interval training session tomorrow. was out for a 7km yesterday and planning on upping milage at weekend, but I want to mix it up tomorrow.

Would sessions of 400m at a much faster pace than usual and trot back be sufficient or what would be best?

Cheers

I like interval training, even though I haven't done nearly as much of it as hoped to date. Even for the purposes of variety, they can work really well for you.

With regard to your 400m runs, how long are your intended recoveries? Regardless of how long they are, or how fast you plan to run, I would say the main thing overall is to be consistent with your times. Keep doing them regularly, and improvements should follow naturally; with a lot of less experienced runners, times often get better by simply running more.

Wubble Wubble

Oldref wrote: »

Hi everyone, fairly new to the running gig, mainly running 5K to 10 mile races. Just registered for Dublin today…..

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
HM – Running Waterford half in June, will update but hoping for sub 2 hours)
10M – April 17: 1:29 (training run)
10K – April 17: 52:41
5k - May 17: 23:21


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently training 4 days a week. 3 days running (one long run 8-12 miles) and 1 day gym workout.


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Will have a much better idea after the Waterford half at the end of the month - dream time 4.15, realistic goal 4.30 but would just like to finish it!!!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Would like to stay with 3 days running and 1 day of strength training, going to follow the boards plan


Why are you running this marathon?
My better half is faithmc, who ran the DCM last year and was a poster on DCM 16 Novices thread. She ran for her Dad who was a keen runner and is currently unwell. It inspired me so much that I took up running, just as a hobby at first but never believed I would enjoy it as much as I do now!

Hi Oldref,

Welcome aboard! For someone new to this game, those times are really good. I like the Boards plan for you. In relation to the Waterford half, based on your other times I would also be confident of going sub-2. And if it doesn't happen this time, it will almost certainly happen the next time as your mileage increases and your fitness improves.

I remember faithmc from the thread last year. Her race report was fairly epic IIRC. Thanks for signing up, and best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Only raced some 5k parkruns. Pb of 20.40 back in Jan. Have done some Hell and back things, one was 20k, though I know they are completely different to straight runs.
Haven't done a 10k race but would think 50m would be achievable at this moment in time.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

No direct training for running but just finished the football season so have some fitness level though not great due to injuries the last few months

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Dream: 3.40
realistic: 4.00 (I know I'll be angry with myself if I don't make this)

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

Will train 3/4/5 times a week. Was planning on the Hal higdon novice 2 but adjusted due to a holiday in august. Will have a good read of this thread and some other plans over the next week or two

Why are you running this marathon?
Was something I'd always said I wanted to do and things have fallen into place that I might have the time this year to train. Was also in at the event last year as a friend was running and the atmosphere was excellent.

Hi Sheep1978,

Welcome to the thread! That's some 5k PB for a starter. I haven't done THAB or any of its variants/rivals; those I know who are into the adventure racing say they're more about finishing than anything else. Fair play to you, though I wouldn't be crazy about them....(in general that is, not in relation to DCM training)

Most plans have a bit of give in them in relation to switching days around and whatnot. If possible, I'd recommend bringing the runners on holiday and totting up a few easy miles in the mornings. I did something similar a few years ago in Lanzarote, and never reached the same weekly mileage (49-50ish) before or since!

+10000 on the atmosphere. Even if you're not a native, it doesn't matter, as you'll get the support anyway. It makes a big difference in the closing stages especially; take it from someone who's been there Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

brownbinman

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I like interval training, even though I haven't done nearly as much of it as hoped to date. Even for the purposes of variety, they can work really well for you.

With regard to your 400m runs, how long are your intended recoveries? Regardless of how long they are, or how fast you plan to run, I would say the main thing overall is to be consistent with your times. Keep doing them regularly, and improvements should follow naturally; with a lot of less experienced runners, times often get better by simply running more.

Many thanks Wubble. I went out in the lashing rain regardless and as hard as I found it, I enjoyed it.

I tried to get it as consistent as possible, was more or less 1 1/2 minutes on, 1 1/2 minutes off. I'm hoping to get one of these in a week in between longer runs and a bit of swimming/cycling

ariana`

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

This is one of those occasions where I shamelessly nick from someone else thanks to Myles for sharing his expertise, I couldn't even dream of explaining it as well as this....

Long Slow Run

I found this really informative thank you for posting the link.

However, still slightly confused

To put it into figures for a 4 hr marathon runner your race pace on the day will be 9.08 min per mile pace roughly. Your easy pace then would be better off closer to 10.30 per mile


So is that 10.30 per mile pace for easy runs (tues & thurs) and then slower again for the LSR? And if so, how much say, 30-45 seconds per mile slower?
Or is that suggested 10.30 min/mile pace for LSR?

Sorry if i'm over-thinking it at this early stage but i'd really like to get the LSR pace figured out sooner rather than later. At the moment my 5k pace is 5:00min/km and my LSR pace is 6:00 min/km so i'm fairly sure this isn't slow enough. Last weekend i did my LSR (12km) at 6:42 min/km but that was helped by having consecutive stitches :rolleyes:

pcuser

Hi everyone,

Another new runner here. I started with the C25K back in October, I finished that and moved on to the 5K to 10K app and finished that. I enjoyed running so much I decided to train for a marathon. I was going to run the DCM but I left it late to book and the hotels were quiet expensive. Il also be going on Holidays 2 weeks later so that was not going to work. Instead I have registered for the Dingle Marathon on 02/09/2017 this suits me much better as I live in Kerry. I have to give a shout out to "The Muppet" he has being a great inspiration to me on the C25K thread he has also answered any questions I had.


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K 25:55 03/03/17
10K 54:30 06/03/17
10 Mile 1:48:50 01/06/2017 This was Yesterdays LSR


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I following the Hal Higdon novice plan at the moment so the distance varies each week. Im currently on week 5 and this week I ran 24 miles. I dont cross train I usually run an easy 5K for the days marked cross train

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Ideally I would like to finish with a sub 4:30 time, Its not the end of the world if I dont achieve this though. My plan was to run my 1st Marathon for fun and after that I could concentrate on times for the following marathons. When I have finished the training plan I should know a realistic time to finish in.


How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I can train 7 days a week if needed. At the moment I am training 5 days a week and following Hal Higdons Novice Plan 1

Why are you running this marathon?
Why not, I really enjoyed training for the 5 and 10K. I felt I could run a lot further after finishing the 10K app and decided to run a marathon. I can also raise money for charity doing something I love.

Lazare

ariana` wrote: »

Last weekend i did my LSR (12km) at 6:42 min/km but that was helped by having consecutive stitches :rolleyes:

A couple of weeks ago I ate a chicken wing before heading out on a morning run, don't normally eat anything but it was sitting there from the night before and I couldn't resist it

Anyway I got a stitch about 1.5km in and was initially cursing the decision. Not 100% sure if that's what caused it but I thought about it and decided to use the situation to learn. I tried out a couple of breathing techniques. Short sharp diaphragm breathing did the job and got rid of it. I'd never managed to get rid of a stitch before without stopping.

Point I'm making I suppose is to turn those situations, stitches, cramp etc into a positive in terms of learning how to deal with them.

Lazare

Also, and this might sound a little bonkers but whenever you burn or cut your finger, stub your toe or do anything that causes a bit of sharp pain, use the situation to train yourself to block it out.

I burned my finger off the stove a month or so ago and got the usual stinging pain. Ran it under the cold tap for a bit but then decided to try block out the pain mentally and it actually worked, I could feel the throbbing but the pain pretty much went away.

I'm not suggesting you stick your finger in the fire or anything but the next time it happens accidentally try it.

Pain is a mental construct afterall.

positron

Lazare

lol

Lazare

There was a woman on 'One born every minute' a couple of weeks ago who breezed through labour, no epidural or other drugs.

Turned out she was an experienced marathon runner. Learning how to deal with that pain got her through it she claimed.

ariana`

Lazare wrote: »

There was a woman on 'One born every minute' a couple of weeks ago who breezed through labour, no epidural or other drugs.

Turned out she was an experienced marathon runner. Learning how to deal with that pain got her through it she claimed.

Should be a walk in the park for me so as i breezed (ok maybe breezed is an exaggerate but i made it) through 3 labours without any epidural Ok, i confess i did have a few puffs of the gas 'n' air, does that make me weak :rolleyes:

quickbeam

When should I get new runners?

I bought my current ones in January and have done nearly 700km since then (estimate about 75-80% of it running, the rest walking).

A quick Google tells me I should change them about every 500 miles, so I'm nearly at that now. Is Google right, or do I have a bit longer in them before I change? I'm not loaded so don't want to change unnecessarily.

Also, where do I go get them? The last time was just Lifestyle Sports, but I remember reading here about some specialist place in the city (Dublin) that does your gait measurement, but I can't remember what they're called. Are they the place to go, or would any shop like Lifestyle do?

Lazare

ariana` wrote: »

Should be a walk in the park for me so as i breezed (ok maybe breezed is an exaggerate but i made it) through 3 labours without any epidural Ok, i confess i did have a few puffs of the gas 'n' air, does that make me weak :rolleyes:

No bother to you so

Women truly are the tougher of the sexes.

brownbinman

quickbeam wrote: »

When should I get new runners?

I bought my current ones in January and have done nearly 700km since then (estimate about 75-80% of it running, the rest walking).

A quick Google tells me I should change them about every 500 miles, so I'm nearly at that now. Is Google right, or do I have a bit longer in them before I change? I'm not loaded so don't want to change unnecessarily.

Also, where do I go get them? The last time was just Lifestyle Sports, but I remember reading here about some specialist place in the city (Dublin) that does your gait measurement, but I can't remember what they're called. Are they the place to go, or would any shop like Lifestyle do?

I've gone to 2 places for runners, The Run Hub in Ashtown or Runlogic. Always found it better talking to actual runners rather than just lads working there.

hot buttered scones

quickbeam wrote:

I bought my current ones in January and have done nearly 700km since then (estimate about 75-80% of it running, the rest walking).

I can't help you with a shop (don't live in Dublin) but I do have a tip. Save your new ones for running only. Your old ones will be grand for walking around in. That's what I do anyway.

ariana`

quickbeam wrote: »

When should I get new runners?

Bring your old ones with you. A good running shop will check them and let you know if they think you need new ones. Strava started telling me sometime last year that i needed new ones as i had run 800km (i think) in them. I brought them to the running shop and he said they were good for another 3-400km. I've been back and bought new runners since. I was very impressed with the service & the shop has a loyal customer as a result, win-win.

Lazare wrote: »

No bother to you so

Women truly are the tougher of the sexes.

Nice of you to say