DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

What time pace band did you get? Did you go for conservative start, even effort, negative split?

Yeah, exactly that. Slight negative. Even effort with a slight limiter on the downhills. Has me going through halfway at 2:00:40 and finishing on 3:58:00.

Just tested out making one there with clear tape and double sided tape and it works great. Ran it under the tap and it's perfect. Comfortable on the wrist too.

Are you using one?

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

Yeah, exactly that. Slight negative. Even effort with a slight limiter on the downhills. Has me going through halfway at 2:00:40 and finishing on 3:58:00.

Just tested out making one there with clear tape and double sided tape and it works great. Ran it under the tap and it's perfect. Comfortable on the wrist too.

Are you using one?

Not planning to. I'm fairly comfortable running by the watch and I'll have a few distance/ times to be there planned. Out of curiosity what is your split on the band for 10k?

dos29

Bib No.| ]Username | Target Time | Actual Time
12345 | skyblue46 |03:59:59 |
12346 | quickbeam |05:59:59 |
12347 | candamir | 03:59:59 |
12348| kellygirl | 04:29:59 |
12349 | Damo 2k9 | 03:59:59 |
12350 | Positron | 04:29:59 |
12351| Lazare | 03:58:xx |
12352|Leesider| 04:59:59|
12353 | clickerquicklic | 03:16:29 |
12354 | stampydmonkey | 03:56:xx |
12355 | RolandDeschain | 03:54:xx |
12356 | BrownEyes79 | 04:20:xx |
12357|statina| 04:55:59|
12358|ariana| 04:39:xx|
12359|heebusjeebus| 04:20:00|
12360|henrietta| 04:35:00|
12361|Sheep1978| 03:29:59|
12362|deisedude| 03:29:59|
12363|conti| 03:19:59|
12364|drkpower| 03:40.00|
12365|Podgec10| 03:19:xx|
12366|Battery Kinzie| 03:19:59|
12367|dos29| 03:40:00|


I've put in my optimistic A goal for if everything goes my way. B goal is 3:50 and C goal is break 4hrs.
(A buddy of mine just about broke 4 a while back and he has a few years on me, so that's an important one to hit!!!)
At the very beginning I was just looking at the 4hr marker, with anything better being a bonus, but the training went so well, I feel I owe it to myself to give it a good lash.
Only real "race" I did was a HM which I got 1:40:30'ish in.
Plan at the moment is to start just ahead of the 3:50 pacers, do 7 x 8:45 miles, then 13 x 8:20 miles, leaving 6 x 8:25 miles. Or something kinda like that!
But as I say, that's everything going perfect! If the weather or my body isn't spot on, I'll have no hesitation holding as close as I can to 8:45 for as long as I can.

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

Not planning to. I'm fairly comfortable running by the watch and I'll have a few distance/ times to be there planned. Out of curiosity what is your split on the band for 10k?

10k split is 59:15

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

10k split is 59:15

More than interesting!!! That's about what I expected and in line with what I'm planning.

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

More than interesting!!! That's about what I expected and in line with what I'm planning.

Probably not relevant but just checked my result from 2007 if it's of any use


10k. Half way. 30km. Chip time
00:57:03 01:57:56 02:46:36 03:56:50

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Probably not relevant but just checked my result from 2007 if it's of any use


10k. Half way. 30km. Chip time
00:57:03 01:57:56 02:46:36 03:56:50

Haha...you would blow the seedling of a theory I had forming in my head right out of the water!!

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

More than interesting!!! That's about what I expected and in line with what I'm planning.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Haha...you would blow the seedling of a theory I had forming in my head right out of the water!!

Spill the beans

leesider77

ariana` wrote: »

This is what I keep reminding myself of. Leesider the same applies to you. I'm reading up on 5 & 10k plans already, a bit premature but I think having a new goal might help ease the pain of missing the current goal

Ariana - I admire your attitude :-). Once I got work out of the way, I must admit a did have a little cry or two yesterday. I couldn't even look at boards. But you are right and true to my hyper planning form, I already booked myself in yesterday to start a strength and conditioning program in early Nov with my physio before attempting any other training blocks.

Its not even my glute that is the issue now its my fifth metatarsal on the outside of my left foot which has never been an issue to date. Im not in great pain but it still feels bruised and just in wait and see mode now to see if it settles in time.

scotindublin

It is hard not to be upset when so much work has been put in.The training that you have done will stand to you for the shorter stuff aswell though.

I am just waiting for marathon to be over and the OK from Wubble to shamelessly plug a great 5k in Dublin at the start of Dec!!

leesider77 wrote: »

Ariana - I admire your attitude :-). Once I got work out of the way, I must admit a did have a little cry or two yesterday. I couldn't even look at boards. But you are right and true to my hyper planning form, I already booked myself in yesterday to start a strength and conditioning program in early Nov with my physio before attempting any other training blocks.

Its not even my glute that is the issue now its my fifth metatarsal on the outside of my left foot which has never been an issue to date. Im not in great pain but it still feels bruised and just in wait and see mode now to see if it settles in time.

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

Wow - great Parkrun time. 26 mins was a big achievement for me. Stopped doing it then as my LSRs needed to be on Saturday morns. Looking forward to going back to it and aiming for 25 mins though.

You will have to do use DCM as a major learning exercise and do another marathon when not injured.

Thanks breaking 25min for 5k was a milestone for me, i was hovering around it very close just before i had baby #3 and then when i got back running it took a while. I think a goal in the future will be to break 50 min for 10k. And yip i definitely have unfinished business with the marathon. Even if by some miracle i get to run/walk this one, there will still be unfinished business :rolleyes:

leesider77 wrote: »

Ariana - I admire your attitude :-). Once I got work out of the way, I must admit a did have a little cry or two yesterday. I couldn't even look at boards. But you are right and true to my hyper planning form, I already booked myself in yesterday to start a strength and conditioning program in early Nov with my physio before attempting any other training blocks.

Its not even my glute that is the issue now its my fifth metatarsal on the outside of my left foot which has never been an issue to date. Im not in great pain but it still feels bruised and just in wait and see mode now to see if it settles in time.

Oh listen, i don't know about my attitude deserving any praise, i have shed plenty of tears in the past week and especially yesterday. I'm gutted and have sworn off running and the works but i'm also old enough to know that there are worse things in life to not getting to do a run. We'll get better and come back stronger I hope the foot doesn't develop into anything worse. What's the procedure now - rest, ice & wait?

skyblue46

scotindublin wrote: »

I am just waiting for marathon to be over and the OK from Wubble to shamelessly plug a great 5k in Dublin at the start of Dec!!

Might it have a very seasonal theme? Actually I'll have to find a thread on here where I can get advice on how to rest after marathon and then get a bit of training for that race.

scotindublin

After the marathon last year there was great advice on training from one of the more experienced posters, I expect WW will be working on something similar for the 2017 Novices.

I am sure you are thinking of the Santa Dash....I was thinking the Jingle Bells 5k.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Might it have a very seasonal theme? Actually I'll have to find a thread on here where I can get advice on how to rest after marathon and then get a bit of training for that race.

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

Spill the beans

Well you know it has been puzzling me as to why so many people missed their target times last year. I had a look at the 4hr group as its of particular interest to me and noticed that every last one of them were through 10k faster than that time you got. Maybe it's the buzz, the adrenaline, the charge from the line....who knows. Perhaps we'll all do it.

skyblue46

scotindublin wrote: »

After the marathon last year there was great advice on training from one of the more experienced posters, I expect WW will be working on something similar for the 2017 Novices.

I am sure you are thinking of the Santa Dash....I was thinking the Jingle Bells 5k.

Haha. No it was the jingle bells. Went to watch it last year and loved the idea of barrelling down the finishing stretch.

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

Well you know it has been puzzling me as to why so many people missed their target times last year. I had a look at the 4hr group as its of particular interest to me and noticed that every last one of them were through 10k faster than that time you got. Maybe it's the buzz, the adrenaline, the charge from the line....who knows. Perhaps we'll all do it.

I think you are right a conservative first 10km if you can manage it is gold. My friend did her 1st in Dublin last year and had a cracking good run, overall she had a negative split of 2:xx minutes, but she also had a negative split within the first half (which is what i think you are getting at?). She went through 10k in 53:xx which would indicate a 1:51:xx first half but she went through half way in 1:50:xx. Her second half was 1:47:xx and she finished in 3:38:xx. Her half time going into it was 1:40:xx but I'd say that was conservative as it was a tough tough half, very exposed and on a windy day.

scotindublin

Guaranteed 5k PB with the training you have done....I had WW in my sights for the last km last year just couldn't catch him!

Stewarding role for me this year.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Haha. No it was the jingle bells. Went to watch it last year and loved the idea of barrelling down the finishing stretch.

Unthought Known

skyblue46 wrote: »

Well you know it has been puzzling me as to why so many people missed their target times last year. I had a look at the 4hr group as its of particular interest to me and noticed that every last one of them were through 10k faster than that time you got. Maybe it's the buzz, the adrenaline, the charge from the line....who knows. Perhaps we'll all do it.

I'll give an honest opinion about my race. In hindsight I don't think I was ready to attempt a sub-4 marathon last year, I lacked the endurance at 9 min/mile pace. It's easy to get caught up in these magical round numbers, but my advice for every novice would be to favour a more conservative target and push on to beat it if you feel good in the last quarter. I'm telling you now that a 4:10 run at even or negative splits will be so much more enjoyable/rewarding than a 4:10 where you've run/walked 10:30 pace for the last 6 miles.

On the topic of fast/conservative starts, I really don't think any of the novices started too fast last year. Like this year we were well drilled by our mentors to ease ourselves into the race. I think most decided to follow a pace group.
Here's a comparison of the splits up to 30k last year between me and Olwyn, one of the 4 hour pacers. My own thinking is that the cumulative effect of the early drags took a toll and Crumlin Rd killed me off.

Split| Me | Pacer
10K | 56:42 | 56:39
Half | 1:59:14 | 1:59:14
30K | 2:55:16 | 2:50:14
Finish | 4:20:43 | 3:59:39

deisedude

Hi guys, when i registered i hadn't a clue what was an achievable goal so I went for wave 2. Training indicates i could if all goes well do a 3:30 but those pacers are in Wave 1. I'm guessing I can't change wave and will just have to pace myself?

skyblue46

Unthought Known wrote: »

I'll give an honest opinion about my race. In hindsight I don't think I was ready to attempt a sub-4 marathon last year, I lacked the endurance at 9 min/mile pace. It's easy to get caught up in these magical round numbers, but my advice for every novice would be to favour a more conservative target and push on to beat it if you feel good in the last quarter. I'm telling you now that a 4:10 run at even or negative splits will be so much more enjoyable/rewarding than a 4:10 where you've run/walked 10:30 pace for the last 6 miles.

On the topic of fast/conservative starts, I really don't think any of the novices started too fast last year. Like this year we were well drilled by our mentors to ease ourselves into the race. I think most decided to follow a pace group.
Here's a comparison of the splits up to 30k last year between me and Olwyn, one of the 4 hour pacers. My own thinking is that the cumulative effect of the early drags took a toll and Crumlin Rd killed me off.

Split| Me | Pacer
10K | 56:42 | 56:39
Half | 1:59:14 | 1:59:14
30K | 2:55:16 | 2:50:14
Finish | 4:20:43 | 3:59:39

I hear you. My thinking is that the pacers do even splits mile per mile. If I'm with my target time pacer after 6 miles of uphill drag then I have probably gone out at least 20 secs a mile too fast. It might be a pacers schedule but makes it unsustainable for me and I'd lose multiples of that later in the day.

I agree about the different feeling you can get by finishing in a less wrecked condition which is why I think a 59/60 min first 10k for someone aiming for 4 hours is probably the way to go.

earnyourturns

I'll chip in with my 2 cents. I ran DCM in 2009 with no target time and splits as follows:
10 km - 1:07
21km - 2:14
30km - 3:08
42km - 4:19

Had a great day, enjoyed every second.

Then I ran again last year, this time aiming for 4:10. Splits as follows:

10km - 59 mins
21km - 2:05
30km - 3:04
42km - 4:23

Horrendous second half, odyssey of pain. Don't underestimate how much the wheels can come off in the last 12km.

Running again next week and have abandoned a target time! Just want to enjoy it.

Damo 2k9

deisedude wrote: »

Hi guys, when i registered i hadn't a clue what was an achievable goal so I went for wave 2. Training indicates i could if all goes well do a 3:30 but those pacers are in Wave 1. I'm guessing I can't change wave and will just have to pace myself?

Happened me, although I got in just before wave changes were closed. A couple people on here said if u ask really nicely at the expo and explain maybe, then they might change u!

podgec10

I have that in there, but would still be very happy with a decent finish to mid 3:2x.

Would be interested in peoples recent race times as clickerquicklic mentioned to get some perspective. My half at the Dublin half was 1:29 and 10k in Fingal was 39.[/QUOTE]

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Pb's all in this training block

Parkrun 18.44
Fingal 10k 39.50
Frank Duffy 10mile 67.56
SSE Half 1.29.06

Target 3.16 looks ambitious compared to others with better times than me. I'll be going with 3.20 pacers until mile 20 and best result be pulling in a few minutes over last 10k

I'm around the same predicted/hopeful time as you so times are

Dist 2017 PB (2016)
5k N/A 18:45
10k 41:06 39:15
Half 01:35:06 01:30:06

I haven't raced much this year. I live very far away from Dublin or any cities really! I hadn't much training for the 10k and the half was early in this training program on a tough course. I don't know if I will be under 3:20 but it is the main target (mostly cos by bro did 3:21 last year, only joking, kinda, but not really!!!)

RasTa

Also one who's wheels came off last year although I managed to run the whole thing which turned into my goal during the race

10k: 56:23
HM: 1:58:03
30k: 2:49:25
Finish: 4:02:04

Hard to say now but don't worry about a target time for your first one. I know the legs have 2mins in them so might attempt it again.

Also don't do what I did and take a delivery of 100 kegs of Guinness and Carlsberg the day before the marathon.

Wubble Wubble

Kellygirl wrote: »

What are you all planning on eating the night before the race?

Just been reading the nutrition articles in Irish Runner and want to sit down and plan my week food wise! I’m convinced bad nutrition and eating rubbish hindered me in Cork so not letting that be an excuse this time!

To answer the actual question...not sure yet!

General guideline is (not having the relevant article) never try anything for the first time the night before! No doubt there's plenty of new and interesting stuff in there, but if you wish to try something, try it tonight.

Then try it a second time, and maybe a third to be sure. Last thing you want is getting some kind of allergic reaction, or other aftereffects due to not liking the taste or it making you feel queasy.

Kellygirl

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

To answer the actual question...not sure yet!

General guideline is (not having the relevant article) never try anything for the first time the night before! No doubt there's plenty of new and interesting stuff in there, but if you wish to try something, try it tonight.

Then try it a second time, and maybe a third to be sure. Last thing you want is getting some kind of allergic reaction, or other aftereffects due to not liking the taste or it making you feel queasy.

Thanks WW. Def not trying anything new. Been fairly healthy the whole way through the training but my diet has had to change the past two weeks so instead of eating what I normally cook weekly and coming up to LSRs I need to actually put my thinking cap on and just make sure i’m getting my carbs and protein in.

The article is more about when to start upping the carbs and reducing fibre. It’s quite good. I can take a photo and share here. Is that ok to do?

AuldManKing

Kellygirl wrote: »

What are you all planning on eating the night before the race?

Just been reading the nutrition articles in Irish Runner and want to sit down and plan my week food wise! I’m convinced bad nutrition and eating rubbish hindered me in Cork so not letting that be an excuse this time!

This is a great question and is one that a lot of people get wrong and it can impact your race.

The general "wisdom" is to eat lots of pasta the night before the race......... This is incorrect and will leave you bloated and sluggish the morning of the race - I made this mistake last year.

Your biggest meal should be on the Friday night. Saturday is about eating more often but smaller meals/snacks (more carbs, more calories than normal, but broken up over the day)

The aim of carb loading is not to fill your stomachs, but to restore your glycogen in your muscles - it can take upto 24 hours for carbs to be turned to glycogen.
So quite often, that big meal the day before your marathon, just sits there in your stomach or has not fully restored your glycogen.

Heres a good article on it.

https://runnersconnect.net/pre-race-marathon-nutrition/

Wubble Wubble

Kellygirl wrote: »

Thanks WW. Def not trying anything new. Been fairly healthy the whole way through the training but my diet has had to change the past two weeks so instead of eating what I normally cook weekly and coming up to LSRs I need to actually put my thinking cap on and just make sure i’m getting my carbs and protein in.

The article is more about when to start upping the carbs and reducing fibre. It’s quite good. I can take a photo and share here. Is that ok to do?

Sure, by all means throw a link up

Lazare

I think the lesson from a lot of posts above and people's experiences is to absolutely not track the pacers stride for stride in the first half. Allow them get away from you on the drags, run on effort rather than pace, keep juice in the tank and reel them in over the last 6 miles.

I think if you're not being too ambitious with a target time this should be possible after putting in 18 weeks of solid training.

clickerquicklic

I've spoke to a few people this week that have done marathons and they all seem to say you won't be able to speed up in the last 6 miles of a marathon , if you can hold pace you are doing really well but its just not possible to speed up by say 1 minute a mile after 20 miles. Has anyone actually sped up in last 10km and finished strong or is it a pipe dream?