DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

RolandDeschain

henrietta wrote: »

I often think this too and often reference Forrest Gump!! If I start to over think it I get stressed and overwhelmed by the all the information. So I'm going to just start slow and keep running as long as I can and hope its enough!

Dead right! Hopefully there will be a few boxes of chocolates waiting for us at the end! Ha

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

Confirmed that the flyer and website are wrong. Website being amended asap. The 4 hour pacers will be in Wave 3. Waves are as per entry form.

I tweeted them a screenshot of that over a week ago.

Thedogsgone

henrietta wrote: »

I often think this too and often reference Forrest Gump!! If I start to over think it I get stressed and overwhelmed by the all the information. So I'm going to just start slow and keep running as long as I can and hope its enough!

This will basically my approach - dont want to overthink it. You can get caught up wasting a lot of mental energy on timings etc but as long as I run 26.2 miles and finish the thing i'll be absolutely delighted regardless of what time I do it in.

Thats not to say that i'm not currently in a constant worry about whether I've done enough. So much so that i'm off for my 3rd 8 miler of the week at lunchtime.

ariana`

Thedogsgone wrote: »

This will basically my approach - dont want to overthink it. You can get caught up wasting a lot of mental energy on timings etc but as long as I run 26.2 miles and finish the thing i'll be absolutely delighted regardless of what time I do it in.

Thats not to say that i'm not currently in a constant worry about whether I've done enough. So much so that i'm off for my 3rd 8 miler of the week at lunchtime.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think that might be overkill. Apparently there's no more training gains to be made but damage can be done if you don't taper. Are you following a plan?

clickerquicklic

scotindublin wrote: »

There is a big difference limping to the start line of a shorter race than limping to the start line of a marathon ( which in my view would be reckless and a recipe for trouble).

Ariana listen to the advice of the Physio.....hopefully you get some good news today. As we have already said there will be other marathons if you don't make this one.

Fingers crossed for some good news!

In fairness I never suggested she limped to the start line of a marathon which of course would be reckless , what I said was if your close then that might be enough , if your getting pains after 8 miles in training not to underestimate adrenaline on the day getting you through that and allowing to finish , but of course listen to the physio first and foremost.

Thedogsgone

ariana` wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think that might be overkill. Apparently there's no more training gains to be made but damage can be done if you don't taper. Are you following a plan?

Yeah but I missed my last LSR at the weekend so just need to do a bit more - not following a plan as such but essentially did what I could to follow the mileage on the plan posted by the DCM every week. Basically tried to match total the mileage suggested each week but not necessarily on the days or the runs they suggested.

I've done a few 17's & 18's - one 19 and one 20 miler. I'll do me 8 today and a bit at the weekend (Maybe 10-15m - the DCM plan suggest 10)

I'd be worried all weekend if I missed the lunchtime run today - although I might do it slower than I normally would.

scotindublin

My bad...anyway hoping for good news for Ariana!

clickerquicklic wrote: »

In fairness I never suggested she limped to the start line of a marathon which of course would be reckless , what I said was if your close then that might be enough , if your getting pains after 8 miles in training not to underestimate adrenaline on the day getting you through that and allowing to finish , but of course listen to the physio first and foremost.

Lazare

Thedogsgone wrote: »

Yeah but I missed my last LSR at the weekend so just need to do a bit more - not following a plan as such but essentially did what I could to follow the mileage on the plan posted by the DCM every week. Basically tried to match total the mileage suggested each week but not necessarily on the days or the runs they suggested.

I've done a few 17's & 18's - one 19 and one 20 miler. I'll do me 8 today and a bit at the weekend (Maybe 10-15m - the DCM plan suggest 10)

I'd be worried all weekend if I missed the lunchtime run today - although I might do it slower than I normally would.

Don't run 15 miles this weekend. It may seem like it's a positive thing to do but it's not.

Your total weekly mileage this week shouldn't be more than 25 miles, and that's only if you're including 9 at recovery pace.

It would be madness and counterproductive to well overshoot that.

clickerquicklic

ariana` wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think that might be overkill. Apparently there's no more training gains to be made but damage can be done if you don't taper. Are you following a plan?

When I heard over marathon tapering I was expecting no running at al last two weeks before a marathon , my plan still has tough workouts , Thursday I switched with Tuesday was 12 x 400m intervals , tomorrow is a 12 mile run , next Tuesday 12 x 200m intervals I am wondering about the Tuesday session so close to the marathon.

clickerquicklic

scotindublin wrote: »

My bad...anyway hoping for good news for Ariana!

nah not at all scott? we both want the best thing. Your advice on this thread has been fantastic thanks.

Wubble Wubble

Thedogsgone wrote: »

Yeah but I missed my last LSR at the weekend so just need to do a bit more - not following a plan as such but essentially did what I could to follow the mileage on the plan posted by the DCM every week. Basically tried to match total the mileage suggested each week but not necessarily on the days or the runs they suggested.

I've done a few 17's & 18's - one 19 and one 20 miler. I'll do me 8 today and a bit at the weekend (Maybe 10-15m - the DCM plan suggest 10)

I'd be worried all weekend if I missed the lunchtime run today - although I might do it slower than I normally would.

15 is far too much. Neither of the plans we've been following, nor any other "novice" plans that I know of, suggest running 15 miles the week before a marathon.

Even my own (sub 3:30, third marathon) has a max of 10 this weekend. This is why we say, especially in relation to LSRs, "When they're gone, they're gone!" Don't chase lost miles.

Lazare

Thedogsgone, would you consider skipping today's 8 mile, running it tomorrow (with us if you can) and then finish your week on that?

Wubble Wubble

clickerquicklic wrote: »

When I heard over marathon tapering I was expecting no running at al last two weeks before a marathon , my plan still has tough workouts , Thursday I switched with Tuesday was 12 x 400m intervals , tomorrow is a 12 mile run , next Tuesday 12 x 200m intervals I am wondering about the Tuesday session so close to the marathon.

Reads very similar to my Asics sub 3:30. Which one is this? 10 x 400 (100) at 5k pace the other day was really, really tough, especially without a partner. Mine also has those 12 x 200m next week. However, I'm probably going to replace it with a few easy miles and hook up with clubmates for the Wednesday session instead.

clickerquicklic

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Reads very similar to my Asics sub 3:30. Which one is this? 10 x 400 (100) at 5k pace the other day was really, really tough, especially without a partner. Mine also has those 12 x 200m next week. However, I'm probably going to replace it with a few easy miles and hook up with clubmates for the Wednesday session instead.

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/training/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-315

Doing them without a partner sounds like a world of pain. Mine was supposed to be 10 x 400m in 90 seconds but the group that meet there at lunch where doing 12 x 400m in 80-84 seconds with a 45 second rest so I went along with this , into a headwind for half off them was absolute murder its the hardest workout I've done in 16 weeks.

I'll do the 12 x 200m on the plan 45 seconds per rep sounds comfortable although it specifies fast so ill probably go closer to 40 seconds.

What I will say though is I've done the 12 x 400m almost every week for the last 16 weeks these are done 2mins a mile faster than marathon pace when you then go to running marathon pace it makes it feel incredibly easier. That is possibly the idea of the session although I don't know.

ariana`

Another intense physio session - hams & ITB mostly. I'm taped up now with kinesiology tape. He/we didn't make a call on it today, he said it's 50/50 now but he's less optimistic than he was on Tuesday :cool: Wednesday's run really threw him for six, as it did me :rolleyes:. The plan now is 5m on Sunday, back to him on Tuesday and 6m on Wednesday. If those runs aren't both pain free then I'm out, if they are well then I'll have a chance.

There's an S&C gym next to where I work, he recommended i spend 3 sessions a week in there for the Winter months, and that i'd come out a different runner next February and be in an ideal place to train for a late Spring/Summer marathon or any other distance. So whether i end up a DNS, a DNF or a Finisher i have a post-marathon plan :cool:

I feel like crying now, the strong likelihood of being a DNS is sinking in, maybe i've been in denial to some degree

Thedogsgone

Thanks for all the responses folks - good to get some other perspectives. Got back from a 7.5 miler there, purposely did it slower than normal and actually felt a bit frustrated, kept having to stop myself speeding up. Good practice for the big day I suppose.

This week is a good example of how i'm approaching it. The DCM plan calls for one run of 6 miles and three 4 mile runs (with 10 miles on sunday). Given the my family/work/life circumstances It suited me to get the mileage in in 3 8 mile(ish) runs rather than the 4 runs as suggested. Not sure its the right approach but its about getting miles into the legs any way I can. I'll do the 10 on sunday and thats me done coz im away all next week with work - i may use the treadmill in the hotel but only just to keep the legs loose.

Best of luck to everybody - Ariane' I was sorry to hear about your injury but take no chances - theres a half marathon in Clontarf at the end of November which might be one to aim at if you cant do this one.

Sheep1978

Sorry to hear that Ariana but at least theres still some hope. We'll all have our fingers crossed for you (and everyone else with knocks) that your runs go smoothly on Sunday and Wednesday.

quickbeam

Is this just part of normal taper procedure?

Last week - the first week of taper, the first week after attempting a 20 miler, 4 runs all felt incredibly difficult even though the distance on them dropped. Thought, fair enough, I'm still tired after my 20 miler, probably to be expected.

This week - 8 miles Monday, 6 miles Wednesday, 4 miles today. All of them difficult, but what has me worried, is that the 4 miles today was the hardest of the lot! I started out and it felt like I was on WK 1 Day 1 of my C25K plan again. I really wasn't sure I'd make 1km, never mind 6km+ (I did in the end, but it didn't feel in any way easy).

Normal? Can I still blame being tired after the 20 miler even though that's nearly two weeks ago now?

I feel like I'm losing fitness, and will struggle to make it across the Liffey in 9 days' time!!

Wubble Wubble

Looking back through last year's thread, I found this. Thanks to RayCun, who posted it then.

---

More mandatory reading for novices
https://medium.com/running-with-data...05f#.8blclkh30

Look at the graph on hitting the wall.
Then look at the graph on fast starters and number of marathons run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then remind yourself how many marathons you have run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then print it out and pin it to your fridge. And stick it to your bedroom ceiling. And put a copy in your race bag. And tape a copy on your arm on race morning. And get a friend to stand at the mile mark with a billboard-sized version of the graph.
Know your pace, run your pace, and stay in control.

Thedogsgone

quickbeam wrote: »

Is this just part of normal taper procedure?

Last week - the first week of taper, the first week after attempting a 20 miler, 4 runs all felt incredibly difficult even though the distance on them dropped. Thought, fair enough, I'm still tired after my 20 miler, probably to be expected.

This week - 8 miles Monday, 6 miles Wednesday, 4 miles today. All of them difficult, but what has me worried, is that the 4 miles today was the hardest of the lot! I started out and it felt like I was on WK 1 Day 1 of my C25K plan again. I really wasn't sure I'd make 1km, never mind 6km+ (I did in the end, but it didn't feel in any way easy).

Normal? Can I still blame being tired after the 20 miler even though that's nearly two weeks ago now?

I feel like I'm losing fitness, and will struggle to make it across the Liffey in 9 days' time!!

I feel ya- ran 8 miles yesterday at 8 minutes a mile and felt great during and after, today I ran 7.5 at closer to 10 minutes a mile (to mimic my intended marathon pace) and I felt terrible. Not sure theres any rhyme or reason to it but could be something as simple as what you ate or how you slept before you ran. I'm told (and i'm banking on) the fact that having done a 20 mile like yourself you will be well set up for the day.

Sheep1978

Thedogsgone wrote: »

I feel ya- ran 8 miles yesterday at 8 minutes a mile and felt great during and after, today I ran 7.5 at closer to 10 minutes a mile (to mimic my intended marathon pace) and I felt terrible. Not sure theres any rhyme or reason to it but could be something as simple as what you ate or how you slept before you ran. I'm told (and i'm banking on) the fact that having done a 20 mile like yourself you will be well set up for the day.

your intended MP is 10min/ml and you ran 8miles at 8 min /ml.? Why.?
I'm no expert but it would seem to me your were most likely knackered from your over exertion

Sheep1978

Are kids allowed in McGrattans next week anyone know.?

ariana`

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Are kids allowed in McGrattans next week anyone know.?

I was wondering the same actually. IF and obviously right now it's a very big IF i run my husband is hoping to meet me at the finish with my older 2 kids, they will be my crutches getting to McGrattans so i can't really leave them outside

Thedogsgone

Sheep1978 wrote: »

your intended MP is 10min/ml and you ran 8miles at 8 min /ml.? Why.?
I'm no expert but it would seem to me your were most likely knackered from your over exertion

I suppose I just like to push myself on the shorter training runs - never saw any harm in upping the speed. On the longer runs i'm far closer to 10 minute miles than 8 minute miles.

henrietta

quickbeam wrote: »

Is this just part of normal taper procedure?

Last week - the first week of taper, the first week after attempting a 20 miler, 4 runs all felt incredibly difficult even though the distance on them dropped. Thought, fair enough, I'm still tired after my 20 miler, probably to be expected.

This week - 8 miles Monday, 6 miles Wednesday, 4 miles today. All of them difficult, but what has me worried, is that the 4 miles today was the hardest of the lot! I started out and it felt like I was on WK 1 Day 1 of my C25K plan again. I really wasn't sure I'd make 1km, never mind 6km+ (I did in the end, but it didn't feel in any way easy).

Normal? Can I still blame being tired after the 20 miler even though that's nearly two weeks ago now?

I feel like I'm losing fitness, and will struggle to make it across the Liffey in 9 days' time!!

I have no wisdom for you I'm afraid but I found reading your post somewhat comforting! You are definitely not alone in how you are feeling.

My plan this week has only 3x4 miles and 8 on Saturday. Last week's mileage was quite low too and I'm really struggling. Feel exactly like you describe.
I have been very lucky injury wise all along and today both my calves felt really heavy and at start I had soreness in my right foot and left heel! (Both went early on and may have only been in my head). Wondering how I'll mange 8 tomorrow not to mind 26 in a weeks time.
I had been so looking forward to taper thinking I'd fly around no bother on the short runs but its not happening. My paces are dropping too!!

Hopefully this is normal and we have nothing to worry about!

podgec10

outstanding information to have. Thanks for posting this.

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Looking back through last year's thread, I found this. Thanks to RayCun, who posted it then.

---

More mandatory reading for novices
https://medium.com/running-with-data...05f#.8blclkh30

Look at the graph on hitting the wall.
Then look at the graph on fast starters and number of marathons run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then remind yourself how many marathons you have run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then print it out and pin it to your fridge. And stick it to your bedroom ceiling. And put a copy in your race bag. And tape a copy on your arm on race morning. And get a friend to stand at the mile mark with a billboard-sized version of the graph.
Know your pace, run your pace, and stay in control.

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Another intense physio session - hams & ITB mostly. I'm taped up now with kinesiology tape. He/we didn't make a call on it today, he said it's 50/50 now but he's less optimistic than he was on Tuesday :cool: Wednesday's run really threw him for six, as it did me :rolleyes:. The plan now is 5m on Sunday, back to him on Tuesday and 6m on Wednesday. If those runs aren't both pain free then I'm out, if they are well then I'll have a chance.

There's an S&C gym next to where I work, he recommended i spend 3 sessions a week in there for the Winter months, and that i'd come out a different runner next February and be in an ideal place to train for a late Spring/Summer marathon or any other distance. So whether i end up a DNS, a DNF or a Finisher i have a post-marathon plan :cool:

I feel like crying now, the strong likelihood of being a DNS is sinking in, maybe i've been in denial to some degree

Oh no Ariana. I’m so sorry to hear it’s not better news. At least you are still in with a chance and i’ll Be really hoping it works for you.

I was at a Strength and Conditioning workshop for runners last night. It was excellent. I did S&C the whole way through my first training training plan and I definitely think it has stood to me though I haven’t kept it up. I’m going back to it after DCM though as I only realized last night I miss it. Brilliant idea to start a program for you.

Kellygirl

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Looking back through last year's thread, I found this. Thanks to RayCun, who posted it then.

---

More mandatory reading for novices
https://medium.com/running-with-data...05f#.8blclkh30

Look at the graph on hitting the wall.
Then look at the graph on fast starters and number of marathons run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then remind yourself how many marathons you have run.
Then look at the hitting the wall graph again.
Then print it out and pin it to your fridge. And stick it to your bedroom ceiling. And put a copy in your race bag. And tape a copy on your arm on race morning. And get a friend to stand at the mile mark with a billboard-sized version of the graph.
Know your pace, run your pace, and stay in control.

That is a brilliant article. Well worth everybody reading.

BrownEyes79

ariana` wrote: »

Another intense physio session - hams & ITB mostly. I'm taped up now with kinesiology tape. He/we didn't make a call on it today, he said it's 50/50 now but he's less optimistic than he was on Tuesday :cool: Wednesday's run really threw him for six, as it did me :rolleyes:. The plan now is 5m on Sunday, back to him on Tuesday and 6m on Wednesday. If those runs aren't both pain free then I'm out, if they are well then I'll have a chance.

There's an S&C gym next to where I work, he recommended i spend 3 sessions a week in there for the Winter months, and that i'd come out a different runner next February and be in an ideal place to train for a late Spring/Summer marathon or any other distance. So whether i end up a DNS, a DNF or a Finisher i have a post-marathon plan :cool:

I feel like crying now, the strong likelihood of being a DNS is sinking in, maybe i've been in denial to some degree

Aw ariana, you’ve been on a emotional roller coaster for the last couple of weeks. I really hope you get to start and finish x

Baby75

Ariana I hope and will cross everything that all goes ok on your runs and you make the start line