DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Lady is a tramp

Does anyone have a copy of the Hal Higdon Novice 1 Plan from the OP, but updated for 2017 dates starting from Monday? If so, I'd much appreciate if you could sent on a copy or upload it here ... sorry if I missed a post where that was done already!

muddypaws

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the Hal Higdon Novice 1 Plan from the OP, but updated for 2017 dates starting from Monday? If so, I'd much appreciate if you could sent on a copy or upload it here ... sorry if I missed a post where that was done already!

The link was posted in post 153 on this thread, on page 11.

Lazare

Tried out a Fartlek session this morning for the first time, ran easy for a mile to warm up then 1 min at a good clip, less than a sprint but good deal faster than 5k effort, then 3 mins recovery jog. Did that five times then easy run back. Man was it tough. Been trying the last few weeks to emulate the plan, Tue easy, Wed session, Thurs easy, weekend long run. Getting myself used to the added day. Feel the fittest I've ever felt, feels great. Just have to sweat the injuries now.

Also signed up for 12x sessions with a personal trainer in a small local gym, gonna do that on Monday mornings.

Really can't wait for the plan to start and get stuck in.

ianm1990

Ran my long run on Saturday , done 10 mile in 1hr 40min , kept it ruffle around 9.30min per mile , at around mile 7 I done 2 mile at 8.30 per mile this was very hard !!. Got up on Sunday felt good and did my weight session , Only getting out today with work etc planning on doing a fartlek session. I'm doing the clontarf half so hopefully I'll feel good !!

clickerquicklic

Ran to work today , already ditched my plan ! Very hard to plan when you've got youngkids. loved it 16k 1hour 15ish, bus home . Going to make a new plan and include runs to work to up the mileage.

Battery Kinzie

Attempted 4*1 miles at about 5 mile pace with 2mins recovery this evening, but ended up leaving it at 3*1mile cause my calves were a bit tight and I wasn't really hitting the paces (it ended up more like 10mile pace rather than 5 mile).

I suppose it's the sort of run I should've worked my way up to, though I never fail to be amazed by how easier it is to run fast in a race versus in training (for me anyway). I did a 10 mile race a few weeks ago at a good pace but tonight I struggled through 3*1miles at that pace, and with recovery in between.

Not too worried about tonight though, I think my legs are just a bit tired from a decent long run on the weekend. And it's absolutely roasting outside.

The Black Oil

leesider77 wrote: »

Thanks a lot - great to have reference point for the time as that's about my LSR pace. Do you mind me asking what was your marathon time?

4:17:23. I went out with the 4:10 pacers. Moved forward after mile 11 or 12, that was a mistake, fell behind them. But, enjoyed the experience as a whole and never doubted I'd do another marathon.

Don't forget water on this one. Hopefully you'll have a good bit of confidence by the time the 20 mile run comes around, and the taper is probably not long after it.

AuldManKing

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Attempted 4*1 miles at about 5 mile pace with 2mins recovery this evening, but ended up leaving it at 3*1mile cause my calves were a bit tight and I wasn't really hitting the paces (it ended up more like 10mile pace rather than 5 mile).

I suppose it's the sort of run I should've worked my way up to, though I never fail to be amazed by how easier it is to run fast in a race versus in training (for me anyway). I did a 10 mile race a few weeks ago at a good pace but tonight I struggled through 3*1miles at that pace, and with recovery in between.

Not too worried about tonight though, I think my legs are just a bit tired from a decent long run on the weekend. And it's absolutely roasting outside.

A couple of things about this one.

Today was a very warm day, so dont worry about not hitting the session - same thing happened to me yesterday.

3x1m off 2 mins is a great session btw and you will get a lot of benefit from it.

Now - the recovery part of the session is the main aspect to it, believe it or not.
It defines what sort of session it is.

as an example of 2 different types of session:

(1) Tempo Session 4x1mile with 1min recovery - this is to be done at your 10mile 'effort' (not pace - effort - this takes into account of warm days).

The 1min recovery seems small, but the pace should not be so challenging - "comfortably hard" is the term for a tempo.

You can build up from 3x1m to 6x1m (all with 1 min recovery)

(2) Vo2max session (i.e. a hard session done at 5km-10km pace)
You would rarely do mile reps for a vo2max session.

The reason being that the 'experts' have proven that the 'best' amount of time to get a V02 impact is a 5 min run with a 50%-90% recovery.

A great session to build up to is 5x5 mins - starting at 3x5 mins with a 4 min recovery (yes 4 mins).
Build that upto 5x5 mins with 4min recovery - then look to reduce the recovery by 30 seconds each time.

The optimum session would be 5x5 mins with 2.30 recovery.

And your comment about it being easier to run in races than in training is on the money - same for us all.

AuldManKing

ianm1990 wrote: »

Ran my long run on Saturday , done 10 mile in 1hr 40min , kept it ruffle around 9.30min per mile , at around mile 7 I done 2 mile at 8.30 per mile this was very hard !!. Got up on Sunday felt good and did my weight session , Only getting out today with work etc planning on doing a fartlek session. I'm doing the clontarf half so hopefully I'll feel good !!

Its a great idea to do this - towards the end of some runs (not all them) push the pace for a couple of miles, its a known thing - a fast finish long run - good for running fast on tired legs - but always keep the last mile easy to cool down.

Singer

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Ran to work today , already ditched my plan ! Very hard to plan when you've got youngkids. loved it 16k 1hour 15ish, bus home . Going to make a new plan and include runs to work to up the mileage.

Wait, what? That's 10 miles at 3:15 marathon pace. It's encouraging that you're knocking out sessions like this in a commute, but very interested to hear what your new plan is.

brownbinman

First back to back 5km last night, especially in the heat I found it a bit tough going but not too bad. Legs are tired this morning and can certainly feel it in my knees. Fingers crossed I'll be able to get out again tonight

Regarding foam rolling, how often should one be doing it? i.e. every evening no matter if I'm running or not?

I know it's so important but at times I just can't be arsed!

Testosterscone

brownbinman wrote: »

First back to back 5km last night, especially in the heat I found it a bit tough going but not too bad. Legs are tired this morning and can certainly feel it in my knees. Fingers crossed I'll be able to get out again tonight

Regarding foam rolling, how often should one be doing it? i.e. every evening no matter if I'm running or not?

I know it's so important but at times I just can't be arsed!

Use it as a seat during a bit of your TV time in the evenings, you will end up getting 15/20 min done without even realising it. Tend to do this with the foam roller or compression boots most nights.

ariana`

I was supposed to start the plan this week, a week early to give me a buffer for my holidays in August, but i'm already behind plan Monday was a rest day. I did a 5k race on Tuesday night (ok the 'race' part wasn't exactly on the plan ) but childcare issues last night meant i didn't do the run on the plan

Does anyone else feel taking Monday as a rest day leaves you with no wiggle room if another day doesn't work out for some reason?

Would there be any harm for example in doing
Mon: Easy
Tues: MP/Intervals
Wed: REST
Thurs: Easy
Friday: XT/Easy
Sat: LSR
Sun: Recovery or REST

Kmagic

Hey guys. Question about shoes. I did my first 12 miles this moring, I'm a few weeks into my training aiming at an earlier marathon (I'll include a run report with my weekend round up).

My question is running. On a 10k, i only get a little rubbing on my middle toes, never an issue. Today i got rubbing all my toes. Is this avoidable? With my over pronation, i need the support in the arch so i dont know if i can go a half size bigger? Do i tie them tighter to try stop slipping? Or just cover my toes in vaseline and plough on?

kin9pin

Kmagic wrote: »

Hey guys. Question about shoes. I did my first 12 miles this moring, I'm a few weeks into my training aiming at an earlier marathon (I'll include a run report with my weekend round up).

My question is running. On a 10k, i only get a little rubbing on my middle toes, never an issue. Today i got rubbing all my toes. Is this avoidable? With my over pronation, i need the support in the arch so i dont know if i can go a half size bigger? Do i tie them tighter to try stop slipping? Or just cover my toes in vaseline and plough on?

You should still have sufficient room in the toe box. Did you buy your shoes from a dedicated running shop like Amphibian King etc. as they can give you some great advice? You could also use Skin Shield or BodyGlide rather than vaseline.

Do you use the runner's loop? It will lock your heel in and should prevent slipping. The only time I had rubbing was in the London marathon when I didn't tie my right shoe properly due to the timing tag.

leesider77

kin9pin wrote: »

You should still have sufficient room in the toe box. Did you buy your shoes from a dedicated running shop like Amphibian King etc. as they can give you some great advice? You could also use Skin Shield or BodyGlide rather than vaseline.

Had the same issue and got shoes with a bigger toebox ( glad kin9pin knew the technical term as I didnt ;-) ) It seemed strange as I have very narrow feet but it sorted my problem at least.

leesider77

The Black Oil wrote: »

4:17:23. I went out with the 4:10 pacers. Moved forward after mile 11 or 12, that was a mistake, fell behind them. But, enjoyed the experience as a whole and never doubted I'd do another marathon.

Don't forget water on this one. Hopefully you'll have a good bit of confidence by the time the 20 mile run comes around, and the taper is probably not long after it.

Thanks a lot - that was a great time - think it will be too ambitious for me this time round.

leesider77

ariana` wrote: »

I was supposed to start the plan this week, a week early to give me a buffer for my holidays in August, but i'm already behind plan Monday was a rest day. I did a 5k race on Tuesday night (ok the 'race' part wasn't exactly on the plan ) but childcare issues last night meant i didn't do the run on the plan

Does anyone else feel taking Monday as a rest day leaves you with no wiggle room if another day doesn't work out for some reason?

Would there be any harm for example in doing
Mon: Easy
Tues: MP/Intervals
Wed: REST
Thurs: Easy
Friday: XT/Easy
Sat: LSR
Sun: Recovery or REST

YES! Was going to ask something similar as Im finding getting the time 3 days in a row is problematic and as you said leaves no wiggle room. What is the impact if you dont do the 3 sessions back to back mid week?

Sheep1978

Other more experienced runners / experts will give a more qualified answer later when online, but from what I've seen on any plans or previous queries, I think once you have a rest day (or cross training) the day before your LSR and rest day after its fine to split your other runs if needed rather than 3 consecutive days

Lazare

Would early morning running work for you?

I very rarely have those issues, I always run early morning before work, I definitely wouldn't be able to stick to a plan if I ran evening time.

ariana`

Lazare wrote: »

Would early morning running work for you?

I very rarely have those issues, I always run early morning before work, I definitely wouldn't be able to stick to a plan if I ran evening time.

Realistically this won't work for me as my husband leaves the house at 7am so i'd have to go very early to be back & showered before he leaves.

I'm thinking of joining a gym so that i could do 1 of the short easy runs on a treadmill at lunchtime, just to free up an extra evening time in the week. But i don't want to do more than 1 run a week on a tm.

Kmagic

kin9pin wrote:

You should still have sufficient room in the toe box. Did you buy your shoes from a dedicated running shop like Amphibian King etc. as they can give you some great advice?

I haven't gone to a dedicated running shop. I'll try that laces loop on my next few runs and see how i feel after that.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

I was supposed to start the plan this week, a week early to give me a buffer for my holidays in August, but i'm already behind plan Monday was a rest day. I did a 5k race on Tuesday night (ok the 'race' part wasn't exactly on the plan ) but childcare issues last night meant i didn't do the run on the plan

Does anyone else feel taking Monday as a rest day leaves you with no wiggle room if another day doesn't work out for some reason?

Would there be any harm for example in doing
Mon: Easy
Tues: MP/Intervals
Wed: REST
Thurs: Easy
Friday: XT/Easy
Sat: LSR
Sun: Recovery or REST

We should all treat our running plans like a guide.
Sometimes life can get in the way and we have to change things around.

What you are proposing is spot on - it keeps with the intention of the plan.

AuldManKing

By the way - the poster above - Testosterscone - he's possibly the most knowledgeable person on Boards (running/physio/training wise!)
Worth taking note of anything he says - he's a bit like the Boards running guru


(He has a number of AKA's but has been on here years).

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

We should all treat our running plans like a guide.
Sometimes life can get in the way and we have to change things around.

What you are proposing is spot on - it keeps with the intention of the plan.

Thank you for the reassurance, i will be working with those running days anymore and adjusting for the unforeseen as needs be but hopefully that won't be too often

Testosterscone

AuldManKing wrote: »

By the way - the poster above - Testosterscone - he's possibly the most knowledgeable person on Boards (running/physio/training wise!)
Worth taking note of anything he says - he's a bit like the Boards running guru


(He has a number of AKA's but has been on here years).

Your cheque is in the mail 😉 Haha

Best advice I can give to anyone taking up running marathon is be honest with yourself (regards effort and taking days off where genuinely needed) and be consistent. Those two simple factors can make more difference than all the plans/gels/racing shoes in the world.

Sheep1978

What's the thoughts about doing 2 of your midweek runs within 12 hours of each other (I.e. Mon evening and then early tues morning). Is this too close together for recovery or is it ok as the first one would likely be an 'easy' run.?

Wubble Wubble

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

After lurking for the last couple of weeks, after initially being intrigued by the idea of the half marathon I think im going to go for it, and sign up for the full.

Id like to say ive a decent level of fitness, in the last 2 months ive started running more, before that id go out every now and again. Averaging about 4:30 per km pace on my runs at the minute, I know that I need to severely slow that down for LSRs, id actually love advice on how to slow down because I find it hard!

It looks like the HH plan is going to be the one for me, never ran anything like this before so it looks like the better one for me.


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Only ever done one 'race' if this even falls into that category, the Dublin Staff Relay last month.
5k - 21:38
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
Nope!
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Ive started to do 3-4 days a week, with the weekend being slightly longer.
5k x 3 times a week, and one slightly longer on the weekend.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Honestly, id just love to complete it, but I like to beat myself up if I feel like I could have done faster etc, would absolutely love to finish around 4:30.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Fairly flexible schedule, work flexi in work but no commute to/from and generally loads of free time. Im going to go with HH.

Why are you running this marathon?
I said about 2-3 years ago that id love to run a marathon and fundraise some money for Temple Street. I was born very sick and spent probably the first year in and out for various things, and wouldnt be where I am today if it wasnt for them. So id love to give back something to them, even if it will only be something small id like to think it could help someone like they did when I was younger.

Damo 2k9, welcome aboard!

That's a very good time for the 5k. However, I would slow down a lot for the LSRs. Particularly in the early weeks of the plan, this will be one of the hardest things to get used to, especially if you're used to running fast all the time. It's worth getting the hang of though!

HHN1 looks like a good plan for yourself. Plus you've a favourable work/life balance, which isn't always easy to achieve, and can get a lot harder to reach as those long runs get longer

Fair play in relation to Temple Street, no doubt they'll be very grateful for your contribution, as I'm sure will all those who stand to benefit from the efforts of this year's Novices Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

muddypaws wrote: »

I've been looking through the training plans, and working out where I can do the races that are part of them, as I live in Sligo and don't want to go to Dublin to race all the time.

Ballina Athletic Club have a ten miler on the same weekend as the FD 10 miler, for anyone in the West that fancies it. http://www.runireland.com/events/ballina-ac-wild-atlantic-10-miler

There is also a half marathon in Clew Bay on the same day as the DC half. http://www.runireland.com/events/clew-bay-half-marathon-10k-louisburgh-county-mayo-ireland

SIL ran that one last year and really enjoyed it. Maybe next year we'll check it out

Wubble Wubble

skyblue46 wrote: »

Hi there, 50 years of age. Started running early 2015 on couch to 5k app. Got as far as half marathon that year before injury on the day ended my year. Didn't run at all in 2016. Started back in March this year. Getting out 4/5 runs a week of which one is a lsr (15k last one) and the rest are between 5 and 10k.

5k: 22.51 - Last 5k of Irish Runner 5 mile last weekend.

5 Mile: 37.17 - Irish Runner 5 2017

10k: 50.50 - Last 10k of DCHM 2015

10 Mile: 1.22.13 - Frank Duffy 2015

Half: 1.48.43 - DCHM 2015

Targeting 4 hours as a realistic ambition.

Welcome skyblue46!

For someone only coming back into it, that's a serious 5 mile time, and in fact, I'm pretty that's better pro rata than the 10 mile and HM times from 2015. Any idea what plan you're going to follow? Thanks for signing up, best of luck!