DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

AuldManKing

Sheep1978 wrote: »

What's the thoughts about doing 2 of your midweek runs within 12 hours of each other (I.e. Mon evening and then early tues morning). Is this too close together for recovery or is it ok as the first one would likely be an 'easy' run.?

Like everything, try it out for a couple of weeks - it'll depend on how you feel, how the weekend went, are you tired etc.
Typically though, its a perfectly acceptable practice.

It may work for you, but others may find it too impactful, especially as the mileage builds.
However, if you are willing to work with it, again as the mileage builds, its great for running on tired'ish legs.

So in summary - yes, but no, but yes.

skyblue46

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Welcome skyblue46!

For someone only coming back into it, that's a serious 5 mile time, and in fact, I'm pretty that's better pro rata than the 10 mile and HM times from 2015. Any idea what plan you're going to follow? Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Thanks. I think I'll try the boards plan initially. If I find it too tough I'll drop back to HH. Yes the times are a bit better, to be honest the product of learning to train slower. 2 years ago I tried too hard, every session was like a time trial and injuries were the only result. This time around I'm way more careful.

Sheep1978

AuldManKing wrote: »

So in summary - yes, but no, but yes.

:D

ariana`

Is there anyone in a club following the boards/HH plan? I'm contemplating joining a club. Main advantage at the moment is to meet like minded individuals and possibly join a group for the LSRs. The club i'm considering do a speed/track session mid-week. If i do join is it of benefit to replace the Wed MP run with this session or would it be better to stick with the MP run and avoid the track session until after DCM?

scotindublin

If you join a club I would imagine that they will have a group that head out for LSRs on the weekends.

I only joined a club after the marathon last year and it is one of the best things I have done to be honest with you.

ariana` wrote: »

Is there anyone in a club following the boards/HH plan? I'm contemplating joining a club. Main advantage at the moment is to meet like minded individuals and possibly join a group for the LSRs. The club i'm considering do a speed/track session mid-week. If i do join is it of benefit to replace the Wed MP run with this session or would it be better to stick with the MP run and avoid the track session until after DCM?

D3PO

Hey guys technically not a novice as I did the DCM in 2014 but due to the arrival of my first born child and the naivety of thinking it wouldn't impact on my training this will be the first one I do with a proper training lead in.

My aim is to run sub 4 hr weather I can do this or not I guess time will tell. I have a training programme but it doesn't seem to have a lot of speed work incorporated into it its a programme that seems to be based fundamentally around hr training during the week aswell as the long slow run at the weekend and 2 days cross training.

So a few questions for the mentors.

1. Is there any recommended training programme for sub 4hr that I should be following as opposed to the one I current am running to ?

2. Currently I'm running 10k in the 53.20 time region. I know I will need to improve overall to do sub 4hr but with the time still left am I at a reasonable enough level to think that sub 4hr is achievable.

kin9pin

D3PO wrote: »

Hey guys technically not a novice as I did the DCM in 2014 but due to the arrival of my first born child and the naivety of thinking it wouldn't impact on my training this will be the first one I do with a proper training lead in.

My aim is to run sub 4 hr weather I can do this or not I guess time will tell. I have a training programme but it doesn't seem to have a lot of speed work incorporated into it its a programme that seems to be based fundamentally around hr training during the week aswell as the long slow run at the weekend and 2 days cross training.

So a few questions for the mentors.

1. Is there any recommended training programme for sub 4hr that I should be following as opposed to the one I current am running to ?

2. Currently I'm running 10k in the 53.20 time region. I know I will need to improve overall to do sub 4hr but with the time still left am I at a reasonable enough level to think that sub 4hr is achievable.

Hey D3PO, is 53:20 a PB for 10K or is that the time you're running while training? McMillan predicts a 4:10 marathon time based on your 10K, but online calculators are generally optimistic as they don't take your endurance and history into account.

If you can answer the questions below, especially the details on your current training, (from Wubble Wubble's original post) it will help us offer the best advice.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Why are you running this marathon?

By the way, what plan are you currently looking at?

Welcome to the thread

Lazare

Q re LSRs, boards plan in particular.

What are veterans thoughts on adding some goal pace stuff towards the end of them, say last 20%, particularly in the early days of the plan?

If I'm able to obv

Edit, on alternate LSRs is my thinking

statina

Hi All

I dont often post but am following everyone's progress. Great to see everyone getting on so well. I conpleted a 10 mile LSR this morning at a nice leisurely pace of 11.40. Found it grand and I'm looking forward to adding on some mileage next week.

Week training of 5 mile tue and thur and race pace on Wednesdays are going ok. So far so good 😊

The Muppet

Lazare wrote: »

Q re LSRs, boards plan in particular.

What are veterans thoughts on adding some goal pace stuff towards the end of them, say last 20%, particularly in the early days of the plan?

If I'm able to obv

Edit, on alternate LSRs is my thinking

My 5 cent would be the boards plan have paced runs inbuilt on some of the mid week runs. Tbh I wouldnt't alter the plan , an unnecessary injury would be a concern.

Spirogyra

In dread of my lsr in the morning....feels hellish.....the thought of it......I'm sure I'll be happy afterwards but right now, nightmare

BrownEyes79

Spirogyra wrote: »

In dread of my lsr in the morning....feels hellish.....the thought of it......I'm sure I'll be happy afterwards but right now, nightmare

I felt the exact same last night and just couldn't get out of the bed this morning but I feel great now that I did it!!

AuldManKing

Lazare wrote: »

Q re LSRs, boards plan in particular.

What are veterans thoughts on adding some goal pace stuff towards the end of them, say last 20%, particularly in the early days of the plan?

If I'm able to obv

Edit, on alternate LSRs is my thinking

The Muppet wrote: »

My 5 cent would be the boards plan have paced runs inbuilt on some of the mid week runs. Tbh I wouldnt't alter the plan , an unnecessary injury would be a concern.

My 2 cents - I'd not alter the plan for a while - if after a few weeks you are feeling very fresh etc despite the mileage, then you may need a different stimulus to ensure you are building the cumulative fatigue that you normally feel while in Marathon training.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

Is there anyone in a club following the boards/HH plan? I'm contemplating joining a club. Main advantage at the moment is to meet like minded individuals and possibly join a group for the LSRs. The club i'm considering do a speed/track session mid-week. If i do join is it of benefit to replace the Wed MP run with this session or would it be better to stick with the MP run and avoid the track session until after DCM?

The MP run and the speed sessions work different systems.

I'd stick with the MP stuff over the speed stuff as its more specific to the race you are training for.
Having company on LSR's is fantastic though.

AuldManKing

Spirogyra wrote: »

In dread of my lsr in the morning....feels hellish.....the thought of it......I'm sure I'll be happy afterwards but right now, nightmare

report back and let us know how it went! - dont build it up too much in your head - at the end of the day its still June and its only running

BrownEyes79

Hi, just looking for some advise regarding LSRs and the mid week runs.
I would like to do the marathon between 4.20 & 4.30 hours.
Currently my Wednesday run of 6 miles is at a pace of 9.24mins and my LSR today of 12 miles was at a pace of 10.26 mins.
Should I be trying to increase the pace of my Wednesday run or decrease the pace of my LSR or is my pacing for both alright at the moment?
Thanks

Baby75

Well done on all the running everyone

I ran in the quarter distance today in the waterford viking Marathon I loved every second of it, the last mile was hard going as the pace increased but was so hilly but I enjoyed using the down hill to my advantage and using it to run faster. but the finish line was at the bottom of a lovely down hill great for sprinting through the finish line LOL, I have to say I was watching the half and full Marathon runners and think I will run the full next year all going well

Sheep1978

Went against physio orders this morning and went out to do something. Did a half mile walk, 1.5 mile jog, .5 walk, 1.5 jog, .5 walk, 1.5 jog, .5 walk , 2.5 jog .

Pace of miles where there was no walking were:
8.45
8.52
9.15
8.56
8.23

clickerquicklic

Still waiting to pick a plan so decided to do an easy half marathon today , wore a heart rate monitor which i never do and picked an arbitrary figure of 160 and kept my heart rate under that . I was breathing easy and felt very strong apart from been thirsty it was warm and I didn't bring a drink or drink before I left house . Ran 1:41 which it just a little slower than I am aiming for sub 3:20.
I'll probably just wing this plan now and do a 25k next week and get up to 35k long run and pad it out with some intervals and parkruns and run commutes.

The Muppet

Spirogyra wrote: »

In dread of my lsr in the morning....feels hellish.....the thought of it......I'm sure I'll be happy afterwards but right now, nightmare

The LSR is mentally challenging for sure if you not ran them previously. You could make them a bit more of an adventure by running routes or to places you've never ran to before. If you're on a rail line it may be interesting to run the required distance to a train station and get the train home .

Keep it easy and take everything that's going on around you in , you'll be surprised at what you notice when running slowly . Good luck with it.

quickbeam

Monday - 11.38km @ 7:53 - this is the same route I tried and failed twice to do the previous week, so nice to have "conquerored" it at last. About half way through I was thinking how nice and easy the pace felt, and how I felt I could go all day on it. By the time I got to the end, I was very much glad to be stopping.
Tuesday - rest
Wednesday - 5.15km @ 7:23
Thursday - rest
Friday - 5.13km @ 7:15
Saturday - 5km Parkrun @ 6:43
Sunday - rest

One thing I notice about my long runs, now that I'm running on the streets, is that I find it really hard, both mentally and physically, to keep going if I have to stop for any reason. Stopping, of course, would be for things like crossing roads, rather than for tiredness reasons. When I'm in my stride, I feel like I'm on auto-pilot and can keep going. But when forced to stop, it's like I have to jack up the engine again and it requires a huge push to do so. Is this normal? Is it good for disipline, endurance, muscles, etc, to have to do this occasionally?

I'm hoping for a 12km long run next week, so my distance increases a little, even though HHN1 only has me down for a 10km. Should also manage at least one day of walking as cross-training, which I didn't manage this week. I am hugely excited to be on a plan, and am really looking forward to the Fingal 10K in only four weeks!!

conor_mc

quickbeam wrote: »

Monday - 11.38km @ 7:53 - this is the same route I tried and failed twice to do the previous week, so nice to have "conquerored" it at last. About half way through I was thinking how nice and easy the pace felt, and how I felt I could go all day on it. By the time I got to the end, I was very much glad to be stopping.
Tuesday - rest
Wednesday - 5.15km @ 7:23
Thursday - rest
Friday - 5.13km @ 7:15
Saturday - 5km Parkrun @ 6:43
Sunday - rest

One thing I notice about my long runs, now that I'm running on the streets, is that I find it really hard, both mentally and physically, to keep going if I have to stop for any reason. Stopping, of course, would be for things like crossing roads, rather than for tiredness reasons. When I'm in my stride, I feel like I'm on auto-pilot and can keep going. But when forced to stop, it's like I have to jack up the engine again and it requires a huge push to do so. Is this normal? Is it good for disipline, endurance, muscles, etc, to have to do this occasionally?

I'm hoping for a 12km long run next week, so my distance increases a little, even though HHN1 only has me down for a 10km. Should also manage at least one day of walking as cross-training, which I didn't manage this week. I am hugely excited to be on a plan, and am really looking forward to the Fingal 10K in only four weeks!!

True story, was running an LSR from Fairview to Sutton and back one night (which I hated but had to be done). Was feeling crap going out anyway, but ran an extra mile at the Sutton half-way point as couldn't face the thought of turning around! Totally irrational, but feeling like I was "nearly there" re halfway felt better than acknowledging "crap, I'm only halfway!!!". Death slog going home, but clocked up +2m on my planned LSR so not all bad!! ðŸ˜

Lazare

AuldManKing wrote: »

My 2 cents - I'd not alter the plan for a while - if after a few weeks you are feeling very fresh etc despite the mileage, then you may need a different stimulus to ensure you are building the cumulative fatigue that you normally feel while in Marathon training.

Interesting. I've not heard that before, can you expand on that a little?

Do you mean general fatigue? As in constant tired legs? Had assumed I would be feeling stronger as the weeks went on.

conor_mc

Lazare wrote: »

Interesting. I've not heard that before, can you expand on that a little?

Do you mean general fatigue? As in constant tired legs? Had assumed I would be feeling stronger as the weeks went on.

You're running further and further every week, so not stronger as such, but LSR's should feel doable but damn tough too, particularly last 2-3m. If you're really cruising through all of your LSR miles, then you can step it up a bit.

kilns

I just bought the book by Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 running. I found it very good amd logic behind the low intensity running seems to make sense. His marathon plans too seem very comprehensive

Lazare

conor_mc wrote: »

You're running further and further every week, so not stronger as such, but LSR's should feel doable but damn tough too, particularly last 2-3m. If you're really cruising through all of your LSR miles, then you can step it up a bit.

Ah cool. Good thing to know, I can imagine myself losing confidence otherwise.

Lazare

Ran the Dunshaughlin 10k last night.

Super race, great buzz about it, seemed the whole town was out supporting. Really tough last 3 or 4k, there was a tough climb at about 7k that seemed to go on forever, was waiting on the fast downhill but it never came. The finish was great, they had distance markers every 200m for the last kilometer. Managed a good sprint for the last 100m to come home in 47:57. Pretty happy with that given my pb before that from April was 49:38 on a faster course.

Such a boost to see results of training already.

clickerquicklic

Why does everyone talk in min/ miles ? I set my watch up in min/km's
Trying to read this thread I've no idea what pace people are running !

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Why does everyone talk in min/ miles ? I set my watch up in min/km's
Trying to read this thread I've no idea what pace people are running !

I second that!!!! Can't figure some out at all. Trying to figure out if someone uses miles as distance does it automatically mean the pace they quote is miles and the same for kms.

Wubble Wubble

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Hi, just looking for some advise regarding LSRs and the mid week runs.
I would like to do the marathon between 4.20 & 4.30 hours.
Currently my Wednesday run of 6 miles is at a pace of 9.24mins and my LSR today of 12 miles was at a pace of 10.26 mins.
Should I be trying to increase the pace of my Wednesday run or decrease the pace of my LSR or is my pacing for both alright at the moment?
Thanks

This guide from Runners World gives your race pace for a marathon time. So if your MP is 10:17 you'll get in just under 4:30. 9:26 works out at 4:07. Bear in mind that these times are a guide only, and for inexperienced marathon runners they may be less relevant.

To summarise:- based on your target time, I'd slow both runs down by a minute or more. It may feel like you're almost at walking pace at first, but the benefits will come as your body adapts.