DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

quickbeam

AuldManKing wrote: »

Its difficult to find healthy alternatives, but they do exist - a bit more expensive though.
you can try these - but you may have to order online.
http://www.shape.com/fitness/training-plans/12-tasty-alternatives-energy-gels

Some people make their own stuff - again you can check online, but one of the important criteria for you to consider is how to carry them for 20+ miles.

Thanks. I don't want to go down the processed route, so I guess raisins it is. Or, if I can find something home made that would work.

The thing is, as I'm so slow, I'm reaching 90 minutes of running a lot sooner in the plan than a lot of you, and while thusfar I've gone without, I do think it won't be long until I'll need to find something.

clickerquicklic

AuldManKing wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJd2e5qbFo

.

Thanks for this , watched them all there earlier some excellent viewing worth a watch for those that haven't.
For my own training I did some 12*400 off 45 second rest , really enjoy this workout as its the only one I make with a group. Managed to keep them all in the 81-84 range except the last one which was done at 72 (max heart rate recorded at 200 during this last rep, first time using heart rate monitor on a session)
My plan is to run 25k tomorrow have a route planned i'll stop in a shop at half way and grab a drink it's 20k finishing with parkrun which I will aim to do at planned marathon pace. I did note that in the videos Daniels said long run should be no more than 25% of your weekly mileage but I've only done a total of 14k this week and even on a busy running week I don't envisage my long run ever been less than 50% of my weekly mileage.
Good luck everyone on the LSR .

Testosterscone

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks for this , watched them all there earlier some excellent viewing worth a watch for those that haven't.
For my own training I did some 12*400 off 45 second rest , really enjoy this workout as its the only one I make with a group. Managed to keep them all in the 81-84 range except the last one which was done at 72 (max heart rate recorded at 200 during this last rep, first time using heart rate monitor on a session)
My plan is to run 25k tomorrow have a route planned i'll stop in a shop at half way and grab a drink it's 20k finishing with parkrun which I will aim to do at planned marathon pace. I did note that in the videos Daniels said long run should be no more than 25% of your weekly mileage but I've only done a total of 14k this week and even on a busy running week I don't envisage my long run ever been less than 50% of my weekly mileage.
Good luck everyone on the LSR .

This is part of the issue with modern day marathon running in that we are trying to do more off less

Ideally you should be building your mileage slowly and consistently over years as opposed to months but this does not fit the current demographic which makes up many marathon runners

In the absence of enough consistent miles throughout the week though ironically the long run will probably be the most specific runs you will do so while it's not optimal in grand sense it's prob what will get you best bang for your buck if that makes sense.

Just make sure recovery and the other aspects of lifestyle suit the fact that 50% of weekly mileage will be in one run as it's gonna put a lot of strain on the body.

D3PO

AuldManKing wrote: »

If you think you are going too slow that your form has changed, then be careful.

Be careful how ?

AuldManKing

D3PO wrote: »

Be careful how ?



Either speed up slightly run with your proper form and mechanics or stop altogether.

Baby75

Morning all , good luck to all with your LSR if your heading out today

It's great to have week 1 nearly complete, I had to change the days around a little as I had my club 4k last night as part of their summer series so ran Tuesday, Thursday,Friday today is rest.
My legs are feeling it today a bit sore and they felt a little tired at the 4k but it was fast (I ran it in 21 minutes ) pretty happy with that
Tomorrow is 6mile LSR which I am looking forward to. I'll be cycling as well as we have a adventure race on the 15th of July . we had it booked before I decided to run the Marathon.

Happy running everyone 😊

Halloween Jack

I have developed a gigantic knot or two in my right thigh, started rolling it with foam roller and rolling pin as much as I can (I'm a colossal wimp). Does anybody have any experience rolling out these knots? What sort of timeline am I looking at for shifting them?

scotindublin

Maybe try a tennis/golf ball aswell to really pin point the spot where the knots are.

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I have developed a gigantic knot or two in my right thigh, started rolling it with foam roller and rolling pin as much as I can (I'm a colossal wimp). Does anybody have any experience rolling out these knots? What sort of timeline am I looking at for shifting them?

Omeceron

Any garmin watch experts here?

10 Mile run today. Watch had me at 10.23 miles. As soon as I hit tree cover the pace slows down, and then picks back up when I leave the trees.

I loaded it to Garmin Connect and Strava. Garmin Connect had a total distance of 10.23 with the pace fluctuating from mile to mile but Strava says 10.7 miles with a consistent pace. The watch is a fenix 3.
I had the same issues on the same 10 mile route last week and since I got the watch it just doesn't like tree cover.

Kmagic

Question regarding LSRs. I did mine today, 13.1 miles, prep for my first HM next weekend (I'm a few weeks into the plan, the higdon novice 1).

My first 5 miles are in around 9:45 pace, which is in around my normal 3 mile or 5/6 mile pace mid week. Every mile after that is 10/20 seconds slower than the previous, so my last few miles are 10:58, 11:19, 11:37 and 11:57, and i finished in 2:15:00.

Is this normal at this stage of the plan? Will my pace improve over time? If that trend continues my last couple miles in the marathon will take me an hour each to complete and I'll be shuffling home in the dark. Any advice going forward?

Spirogyra

Did a 5 mile last night in 34'55, my first time breaking even 37 minutes so delighted, about 3 miles extra between warm-up and -down Unfortunately not many further runs in this region in July and August but last night was great

**Can any of the Dublin Marathon series have numbers picked up on the day?. And would they be a long haul from Heuston?, Thanks

Halloween Jack

Omeceron wrote: »

Any garmin watch experts here?

10 Mile run today. Watch had me at 10.23 miles. As soon as I hit tree cover the pace slows down, and then picks back up when I leave the trees.

I loaded it to Garmin Connect and Strava. Garmin Connect had a total distance of 10.23 with the pace fluctuating from mile to mile but Strava says 10.7 miles with a consistent pace. The watch is a fenix 3.
I had the same issues on the same 10 mile route last week and since I got the watch it just doesn't like tree cover.

I've noticed on part of my runs that is under the cover of foliage the pace on my watch seems to dip way down, like a minute or two per km. using a garmin 910xt

Singer

Spirogyra wrote: »

Can any of the Dublin Marathon series have numbers picked up on the day?. And would they be a long haul from Heuston?, Thanks

No, they're posted out 10 days in advance of the races. Getting from Heuston to Swords and Donabate for the 10k and HM respectively may not be very do-able on public transport, at the very least they'll be very early starts.

AuldManKing

Yevon wrote: »

I ran the Clontarf Half Marathon today. Decided I'd push the boat out and go with the 1.50 pacers, knew it was ambitious for where I'm at right now. Managed to stay with them comfortably enough until the 12k mark and then a mixture of lack of motivation and lack of preparation kicked in and it was a struggle to run/walk from there to the finish. Got over in 1.56 or so which is still a race day PB for me but I'm disappointed with how much I struggled in the final 9k or so.

Going to take it easy for July and tick over with shorter runs on a more regular basis and then I'll pick up the Boards plan at the beginning of August.

Hope everyone's training is going well.

Just remember that lesson on Pacing - you went out ambitious and paid the price. Happened to me on my 1st Marathon - an awful experience.

a slower start would have meant a better finish and less time lost.
Well done on the PB - thats a great time at this stage on a very difficult course.

aine_fainne

I also took part in the Clontarf Half this morning, and I'm sitting down with my feet up trying to recover now!! I really enjoyed the race now that that's over it and done with I had thought I'd try and hang around the 2 hr pacers but I lost them in the crowds at the start so just ran my own race. I found the first 2-3 km of the route very crowded and hard to settle into the right pace, but things settled down as we crossed the bridge to Bull Island and made our way up the beach. A mixture of sweat and suncream in my left eye meant I ran the whole length of the beach squinting through my right eye as I refused to stop and wipe it with the tissue I had stashed away until the first water station. After that it was back to the main road and on to the nice tarmacadam path towards Sutton. There was barely a breeze here so I was able to pick up the speed a bit and ran those couple of km faster than my target pace. So glad I did that because as soon as I turned around for the second half it was straight into the wind, which wasn't so bad until we made our way back to the beach!! Tried to pick up the pace again here but the mix of sand and running straight into the wind meant that each km kept getting slower, so I just focused on getting to the end of the beach and back on to nicer running terrain. Managed to pick up the pace a bit for the last 3.5 km but again running straight into the wind made it a struggle!! Delighted to finally make it across the finish line in 2:05:53 setting a new PB and taking around 9 min off my previous time

AuldManKing

Kmagic wrote: »

Question regarding LSRs. I did mine today, 13.1 miles, prep for my first HM next weekend (I'm a few weeks into the plan, the higdon novice 1).

My first 5 miles are in around 9:45 pace, which is in around my normal 3 mile or 5/6 mile pace mid week. Every mile after that is 10/20 seconds slower than the previous, so my last few miles are 10:58, 11:19, 11:37 and 11:57, and i finished in 2:15:00.

Is this normal at this stage of the plan? Will my pace improve over time? If that trend continues my last couple miles in the marathon will take me an hour each to complete and I'll be shuffling home in the dark. Any advice going forward?

Fantastic getting 13 miles done.

Was the wind a factor in the drop off in pace?
There is NO DOUBT that when the marathon comes around you will be much better prepared and you WILL have improved immensely.
All you have to do is trust the plan.

Its very easy to speed off at the start and feel fantastic, but if your pace drops by the amount it did for you, it indicates that either you had not fueled right, you went off too fast for the number of miles you had planned, or a combination.

13 miles is a long way and you will see some pace drop off in the early days. But once you come to understand what pace works for you, then it will start to get easier.

Maybe on your next long run, aim to start much slower 10:15's or slower and then try to hold that pace all the way.
For next weeks HM - start off slower, run into your pace for a few miles, you'll be amazed at the 'high' you get from finishing strong versus the 'pain' of a runners slog to the finish.

AuldManKing

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I have developed a gigantic knot or two in my right thigh, started rolling it with foam roller and rolling pin as much as I can (I'm a colossal wimp). Does anybody have any experience rolling out these knots? What sort of timeline am I looking at for shifting them?

Jaysus - that's a sore spot alright.
A few days should do it, but you may need to see a sports therapist to get it rubbed out.
When you are foam rolling it (I'd avoid a ball on the thigh - a ball might suit the hammy area) and you notice a sore spot, hold the foam roller on that spot for 30 seconds or so.

Also - it needs time to heal - there may be some residual damage from the folling.

If Testostercone comes on - he's an expert at this sort of stuff.

AuldManKing

aine_fainne wrote: »

I also took part in the Clontarf Half this morning, and I'm sitting down with my feet up trying to recover now!! I really enjoyed the race now that that's over it and done with I had thought I'd try and hang around the 2 hr pacers but I lost them in the crowds at the start so just ran my own race. I found the first 2-3 km of the route very crowded and hard to settle into the right pace, but things settled down as we crossed the bridge to Bull Island and made our way up the beach. A mixture of sweat and suncream in my left eye meant I ran the whole length of the beach squinting through my right eye as I refused to stop and wipe it with the tissue I had stashed away until the first water station. After that it was back to the main road and on to the nice tarmacadam path towards Sutton. There was barely a breeze here so I was able to pick up the speed a bit and ran those couple of km faster than my target pace. So glad I did that because as soon as I turned around for the second half it was straight into the wind, which wasn't so bad until we made our way back to the beach!! Tried to pick up the pace again here but the mix of sand and running straight into the wind meant that each km kept getting slower, so I just focused on getting to the end of the beach and back on to nicer running terrain. Managed to pick up the pace a bit for the last 3.5 km but again running straight into the wind made it a struggle!! Delighted to finally make it across the finish line in 2:05:53 setting a new PB and taking around 9 min off my previous time

Thats a savage PB - 9 mins off your time on that course is fantastic.

I've done that race before and it is always the same with the wind and the sand makes running harder.

That performance is definitely worth under 2 hours on a 'normal' course.
Well done on being able to pick it up too in the last few K's - your pacing seemed good.
Take a lot of positives from that.

AuldManKing

Omeceron wrote: »

Any garmin watch experts here?

10 Mile run today. Watch had me at 10.23 miles. As soon as I hit tree cover the pace slows down, and then picks back up when I leave the trees.

I loaded it to Garmin Connect and Strava. Garmin Connect had a total distance of 10.23 with the pace fluctuating from mile to mile but Strava says 10.7 miles with a consistent pace. The watch is a fenix 3.
I had the same issues on the same 10 mile route last week and since I got the watch it just doesn't like tree cover.

Strava can be funny with lost signals and stuff like that as it has a different algorithm to other devices/software.
I find the watch is the more accurate and Garmin generally reflects whats on the watch.

AuldManKing

** Note **
A bit of housekeeping here - the videos I posted from Jack Daniels are designed for experienced runners following his more advanced plans.
He also has plans for novice marathoners etc - but don't get too hung up if the advice you hear on those videos differ from whats said from the experienced folks here.

We tailor our advice for Novice marathoners (if you are targeting a more aggressive time - we're a bit harder & nastier to you )

Lazare

Week one done.

Started Monday morning at 7am with a 45min one on one gym session, targetting triceps and chest. It was the first I had done any weights in about 15 years so felt the pain of it until Wednesday. Felt good though, and a great way to start the working week.

Didn't start my plan (boards) until Wednesday, felt I needed the extra day recovery from Saturday night's race. Felt great Wed morning, ran 3mile easy at 5:40 pace (km), pace felt really comfortable.

Thursday morning's 4 mile pace run felt great too, held a consistent 5:17 - 5:22 pace throughout. There's a 2 mile loop near my house that I did two laps of, there's a 1km slight drag on the latter half of the loop, I was really happy to be able to keep the pace steady during that section, I normally slow on it.

Friday's easy 3 miles felt a lot tougher, had a lateish night and not a great sleep, so that combined with the previous day's effort made the 5:52 pace feel like work.

Was going to rest until tomorrow before setting out on the LSR but I felt really great today, so headed out on it at lunchtime. 8 mile at 6:15 average pace. The first 7k of it I felt really good, very strong, felt like I could run forever. Started to fatigue then, the last kilometer or so was a slog.

I'm going to use that as a marker for next week's LSR, see if I begin to fatigue at a similar point. Hopefully not.

I'm not going to make a habit of skipping rest days, fully aware of the danger of it, just felt good enough to hit the road today.


Oh, going off advice from a very experienced distance runner friend, I blended up some beetroot juice, going to drink a glass of that after every run.

Spirogyra

Last august in Galway,relied on massive winds 'advantage' just to break 40 for 5 miles, so to break 35 last night, felt amazing

skyblue46

Just joined the DCM 2017 Strava club. Very interesting to see everyone's progress. Now I can play a game of guessing who all the posters here are!

positron

First week of the official DCM countdown, and Week 6 of the HHN1 plan for me personally, and... it didn't go to plan. Between work commitments, DIY stuff and lazyness, only got a single 5k during the week and Parkrun + 7k today (12k, LSR of sorts). I going repeat W6 again but unfortunately next week is even busier at work, fingers crossed I can find time and motivation to run. Long cycle ride planned for tomorrow am (100k or above).

Singer

Lazare wrote: »

Started Monday morning at 7am with a 45min one on one gym session, targetting triceps and chest. It was the first I had done any weights in about 15 years so felt the pain of it until Wednesday. Felt good though, and a great way to start the working week.

Why start going to the gym now? Marathon training is more than enough.

Lazare wrote: »

Oh, going off advice from a very experienced distance runner friend, I blended up some beetroot juice, going to drink a glass of that after every run.

Beetroot is known to improve running - but taken *beforehand*: https://runnersconnect.net/can-beetroot-juice-improve-running-performance/

This article suggests a high nitrate in general is good for elite athletes -
though I'd wonder how much of that translates over to mere mortals: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/06/secrets-two-hour-marathon-men-alter-running

In general, I wouldn't worry much about beetroot, protein shakes, supplements, etc. etc. How well your training goes and ultimately how DCM goes will come down to the volume and quality of the actual running you do. Eating different foods is interesting and all, but as long as you have a reasonably balanced diet and fuel correctly for the long runs what you eat will have a negligible impact on your running.

Spirogyra

Just 10 miles in average pace of about 9'30 this morning. Delayed Muscle Fatigue from Friday nights 5 mile....so today was tough, especially the first 5 or 6 miles....

quickbeam

My week:

Monday - Long run, 11.94km @ 7:40 pace. Tiring but grand.
Tuesdsay - leisurely 6.32km walk.
Wednesday - 7.84km @ 7:22 pace. Had actually only intended to do 5km, but changed my mind and did a bigger circuit, felt grand.
Thursday - rest
Friday - 6.38km @ 7:17 pace
Saturday - 5km @ 6:46 pace, Parkrun
Sunday - rest

I like to get my long run out early in the week, and runs out early in the day, so they're not hanging over me.

It's not exactly sticking to the plan, but I think I'll try and increase my long run to 13km and 14km the next two weeks before having an easy week in the run up to the Fingal 10k in WK 4, and the first 10 miler on the plan in WK 5. If I was strictly on plan I'd be jumping from 10km to 16km in one week, so I think I'd rather at least be closer to the 16km than that before I try it in WK 5.

I'm still not liking my new runners, and use my old ones still on two runs a week, and the walk.

Baby75

Lazare wrote: »

Week one done.

Started Monday morning at 7am with a 45min one on one gym session, targetting triceps and chest. It was the first I had done any weights in about 15 years so felt the pain of it until Wednesday. Felt good though, and a great way to start the working week.

Didn't start my plan (boards) until Wednesday, felt I needed the extra day recovery from Saturday night's race. Felt great Wed morning, ran 3mile easy at 5:40 pace (km), pace felt really comfortable.

Thursday morning's 4 mile pace run felt great too, held a consistent 5:17 - 5:22 pace throughout. There's a 2 mile loop near my house that I did two laps of, there's a 1km slight drag on the latter half of the loop, I was really happy to be able to keep the pace steady during that section, I normally slow on it.

Friday's easy 3 miles felt a lot tougher, had a lateish night and not a great sleep, so that combined with the previous day's effort made the 5:52 pace feel like work.

Was going to rest until tomorrow before setting out on the LSR but I felt really great today, so headed out on it at lunchtime. 8 mile at 6:15 average pace. The first 7k of it I felt really good, very strong, felt like I could run forever. Started to fatigue then, the last kilometer or so was a slog.

I'm going to use that as a marker for next week's LSR, see if I begin to fatigue at a similar point. Hopefully not.

I'm not going to make a habit of skipping rest days, fully aware of the danger of it, just felt good enough to hit the road today.


Oh, going off advice from a very experienced distance runner friend, I blended up some beetroot juice, going to drink a glass of that after every run.

I was just going to say what already been posted , beetroot juice is better before your run and hour to 2 hours and it has to be concentrated so you get the full benefit.

I have used it before races, I get it from the health food shop its only a small bottle called beet it.
I am not sure if it really works, but maybe its a placebo effect LOL

Lazare

Baby75 wrote: »

I was just going to say what already been posted , beetroot juice is better before your run and hour to 2 hours and it has to be concentrated so you get the full benefit.

I have used it before races, I get it from the health food shop its only a small bottle called beet it.
I am not sure if it really works, but maybe its a placebo effect LOL

Maybe so.

I checked in Avoca yesterday for a bottle of it and it was €5 for 750ml so I said feck that and blended my own.

Just bought the vacuum pack of 4 and blitzed them with water, that good enough do you think?

Lazare

Singer wrote: »

Why start going to the gym now? Marathon training is more than enough.

I need to do some strenght work, core and upper body. Makes me feel good too. It's supplemental to the training, if it was detrimental I wouldn't be doing it.

Singer wrote: »

In general, I wouldn't worry much about beetroot, protein shakes, supplements, etc. etc. How well your training goes and ultimately how DCM goes will come down to the volume and quality of the actual running you do.

Obviously the actual running is the number one important thing, but no harm in supplementing it, whether the effects are negligible or not, if you feel like you're doing right by your body, you're doing right by your body. imo.

Singer wrote: »

Eating different foods is interesting and all, but as long as you have a reasonably balanced diet and fuel correctly for the long runs what you eat will have a negligible impact on your running.

Better not tell you about how I plan to run most of them on empty so.