DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

nedsgarden

May i join ? I have been lurking for a while and have decided to go for it. I am a 50 year old male, enjoy running and signed up for DCM on Sat. I felt my tank was empty after my three half marathons hence feeling slightly anxious over this task. Anyhow, i am up for it ! will follow HHN1 and have 2 half marathons coming up - the RNR Dublin and Derry half Sept 3rd.



Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? 3 half marathons, 2.00 - 2.06

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. 3 runs per week, tues + thurs - LSR on Sat. Cycle once a week as well.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? I want to finish, i think/hope i am a 4.30 .

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? Can run more if needed, following HHN1 at present.

Why are you running this marathon? Running for 2 years , always wanted to do a marathon, decided to go for it this year.

Many Thanks.

brownbinman

welcome Neds!

For anyone not signed up, I think there's only 4000 spaces left and they're expect to be gone within the next week or two

Damo 2k9

All miles covered in week 1, although the same as a few I've been running too fast so really need to slow down, thanks for tips on how to try slow it down, hopefully this week will be a bit slower!

Off to Mexico tomorrow, apparently there's a decent running path over there so will try get the miles in over there, if not then it'll be the threadmill for half an hour!!

D3PO

kin9pin wrote: »

Great stuff dropping your LSR pace!
I see you had two speedy sessions, Monday and Wednesday. We're these in you plan? With the LSR that's 3 sessions in a week (the LSR should be considered a session because of the duration) which is risking injury. I would pull at least one of these back to easy pace, around 6 min/km.
Remember, you need to build the endurance first and you do this by running at your correct easy pace. Too many pace sessions will mean you're not recovered sufficiently for your long runs, the most important part of your plan. It might seem too easy now, but that won't be the case when you get to 20+ km runs.

TBH Mondays session wasn't in the plan was supposed to be an easy session as I was still awaiting some advice on this thread I fixated on the only response at that point that my 10km pace from McMillan suggested that I wasn't on sub 4hr pace.

so I decided to up my pace a bit and run steady fast splits. Felt very comfortable at 5.15 pace could have gone faster but shouldn't have deviated from the plan.

Due to family stuff I only had a 30 min window to train so decided to just run a fast 5km as didn't think doing a short 30 min easy paced session would have been of use.

Certainly have learnt that this week so thank you all for your advice and will be toning down the pace and sticking to the plan from now on.

Saturdays LSR was the first time I stuck to boards advice re pace but will do this from now on.

Amirani

Hey all. I've signed up an am gonna join ya.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
No exclusive running races, but have on my own done 5k in 19:20, 10k in 46:00. Longest full run at the moment is 15k, but have ran longer broken up in Quest Glendalough

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level
Daily cycle for commute. Astro football once a week. Run on average 3 times a week. Gym for strength work 2/3 times a week. Some rock climbing.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Hoping to aim at an ambitious sub-3:30. For first marathon I wouldn't be overly disappointed at anything sub 4, but we'll see how the training progresses.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Generally like to train 6 days a week in some form or another. Will be happy if I can do 3 short runs, 1 long run as well as some cross-training. Roughly following Boards plan.

Why are you running this marathon?
Time to jump out of the comfort zone and achieve something big.

leesider77

Anyone completed the Fingal 10km before? Is the course favourable if you wanted to target a PB?
There looks to be be a climb between mile 4 and 5. Need to pysch myself up for it - not a big fan of hills but need to stop avoiding them if I'm to survive them in the DCM.

The Muppet

Fingal 10k would be good pb course.

There are a few drags on it but nothing daunting. The one you mention and theres a long drag about a kilometer from the end of it once you get over that the final run in is downhill if you have anything left by then.

Singer

Here's a writeup I did of the Fingal 10k course last year:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100388609&postcount=4

There are a few minor changes this year, namely not swinging around the Pinnock Hill roundabout at 1k, and instead going immediately left onto the bypass. The distance is made up at the end of the race, the finish appears to be after the castle, so the last 100 metres or so are up a short hill - I think this was the exact setup for the 2014 Fingal 10k.

There's also a video of the entire course that was recently put up on the DCM's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dublinmarathon/videos/10155440291088185/

The drag in the last km is a bit of a b0ll0x, but mostly because of where it is in the race rather than it being an especially tough hill.

Baby75

Singer wrote: »

Here's a writeup I did of the Fingal 10k course last year:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100388609&postcount=4

There are a few minor changes this year, namely not swinging around the Pinnock Hill roundabout at 1k, and instead going immediately left onto the bypass. The distance is made up at the end of the race, the finish appears to be after the castle, so the last 100 metres or so are up a short hill - I think this was the exact setup for the 2014 Fingal 10k.

There's also a video of the entire course that was recently put up on the DCM's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dublinmarathon/videos/10155440291088185/

The drag in the last km is a bit of a b0ll0x, but mostly because of where it is in the race rather than it being an especially tough hill.

I like your race report I am also glad I have been doing a lot of running on hills

clickerquicklic

It's a lovely course imo, I did it the last two years , the only problem I had was I started way at the back and my first km ended up been a minute over target pace as there was just so much traffic ahead of me . This year I'll be getting there early and getting a good spot near the start , I'd love to go sub 40 here for, I'm expecting it so will be very disappointed if I don't ! Last 10k was great Ireland and I was 40:20ish I think this course should be that little bit easier . I think I'll try bank a bit of time early on first 5k is mostly downhill from memory.

Battery Kinzie

I'm doing it too and looking forward to it. I did it last year and it was great. The water hose was much needed, hope to see it out again this year.

BrownEyes79

A bit late giving my report for the 1st week of the plan, but thought I'd share anyway!!

Monday: Shaun T T25 workout, includes weight work, core work and a little cardio

Tuesday: 3 miles, 9.58 min/miles

Wednesday: 5 miles, 9.09min/miles + 5x100m strides

Thursday: 3 miles, 9.41min/miles

Friday: T25 workout

Saturday: 16km (about 10 miles) 6.51min/km
I did this on a treadmill because I was away for the weekend, so that's why it's in kilometres

All in all a good first week, nothing major to report! Loved doing the strides on Wednesday, did them at the end of my 5 miles between football field posts.

My LSR on Saturday was a bit of a nightmare, thought I'd have to postpone it to today which I didn't want to do on my first week, my hotel didn't have a gym so had to blag my way into another hotels gym, they were very kind to let me use it.

I was thinking of aiming for a 4hr30 marathon time but my Wednesday runs are a little quicker so I think I'll stick with the quicker pace and maybe hopefully I'll be able to keep it up during the training plan!

BrownEyes79

Spirogyra wrote: »

Does anyone else suffer with IBS and 'Reflux', running is not great for this, those body parts in general, especially after 'long sunday' run?

Do you bring something to eat with you on the long runs? Even just a bite of a banana or a protein bar every couple of miles can help settle the tummy!

Wubble Wubble

brownbinman wrote: »

Week one of HH Novice 1 plan done. Had to shuffle things about though

i went down and met up with Civil Service Harriers on Tuesday. Sooo happy I did, lovely bunch, very welcoming and friendly. Great running with a group, there's a great sense of we're all in it together

Tuesday: 5x1 mile loops with hills thrown in. 1-1/2 min rests in between. 8.77km in total including warm up
Wednesday: Legs were wrecked, absolutely wrecked so decided not to go out
Thursday: 8km comfortably
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 10.5km at 6:15min average pace. First LSR on the official plan. Felt really strong and held myself back from doing anymore so as not to do too much
Sunday: Rest

My legs were stiff on Saturday morning still after Thursday, so went for 1km warm up and stretched to see how they'd go. Seemed to loosen up a bit and I went off on my LSR. Still felt them a little throughout, especially at the tops of my hamstrings but they weren't sore, just stiff. Got back fine, stretched and I'm fine now.

Visitors staying this weekend so again need to shuffle things about, I'm planning on scrubbing Thursdays session and doing my LSR on Friday, and get out on the bike Sunday afternoon.

Speaking of which, cross-training, should they be on a par with what you LSR would be in terms on time. i.e. my LST would be an hour or so, should this be the target to just keep the legs moving??

It's great finally being on the plan

Good work there brownbinman. That's a tough session to get through this early in proceedings?

In relation to cross training while preparing for a marathon,
here's an article I found that may be of interest .

Wubble Wubble

nedsgarden wrote: »

May i join ? I have been lurking for a while and have decided to go for it. I am a 50 year old male, enjoy running and signed up for DCM on Sat. I felt my tank was empty after my three half marathons hence feeling slightly anxious over this task. Anyhow, i am up for it ! will follow HHN1 and have 2 half marathons coming up - the RNR Dublin and Derry half Sept 3rd.



Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? 3 half marathons, 2.00 - 2.06

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. 3 runs per week, tues + thurs - LSR on Sat. Cycle once a week as well.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? I want to finish, i think/hope i am a 4.30 .

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? Can run more if needed, following HHN1 at present.

Why are you running this marathon? Running for 2 years , always wanted to do a marathon, decided to go for it this year.

Many Thanks.

You certainly may join, nedsgarden lurk no more!

Out of curiosity, when did you do your three half marathons? A distance I love, into double figures on those myself, but none this year as yet.

In relation to the R'N'R and Derry, have you any idea on how you plan on approaching those ones? The reason I ask this question, is that they are only 3 weeks apart.
I don't know about the Derry half, but R'N'R is a significantly net uphill course, which many considerably faster and more experienced runners than you or I have struggled with. So it may be a case of having to race one, and treat the other as a session. Of course, the final decision on all of this will be your own

As regards the marathon itself, 4:30 looks like it may be well within your compass Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

All miles covered in week 1, although the same as a few I've been running too fast so really need to slow down, thanks for tips on how to try slow it down, hopefully this week will be a bit slower!

Off to Mexico tomorrow, apparently there's a decent running path over there so will try get the miles in over there, if not then it'll be the threadmill for half an hour!!

Great stuff Damo, I would try and get to that running path early in the morning if you can, rather than the treadmill enjoy the holidays!

Wubble Wubble

Amirani wrote: »

Hey all. I've signed up an am gonna join ya.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
No exclusive running races, but have on my own done 5k in 19:20, 10k in 46:00. Longest full run at the moment is 15k, but have ran longer broken up in Quest Glendalough

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level
Daily cycle for commute. Astro football once a week. Run on average 3 times a week. Gym for strength work 2/3 times a week. Some rock climbing.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Hoping to aim at an ambitious sub-3:30. For first marathon I wouldn't be overly disappointed at anything sub 4, but we'll see how the training progresses.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Generally like to train 6 days a week in some form or another. Will be happy if I can do 3 short runs, 1 long run as well as some cross-training. Roughly following Boards plan.

Why are you running this marathon?
Time to jump out of the comfort zone and achieve something big.

Welcome aboard Amirani! Potential for a super fast time there. I wouldn't get too hung up on that though, so many things can impact on it, not just in the preparations but on the day itself.

You seem to have a fairly full schedule as it is I played GAA at the time I ran my first marathon (and the odd bit of astro too) so if you can keep that going, fair play, but if it were me I'd be looking to jump into goals a bit more until after the marathon certainly during the later stages of the training. Boards looks to be the more suitable plan for you in any event. Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

clickerquicklic wrote: »

It's a lovely course imo, I did it the last two years , the only problem I had was I started way at the back and my first km ended up been a minute over target pace as there was just so much traffic ahead of me . This year I'll be getting there early and getting a good spot near the start , I'd love to go sub 40 here for, I'm expecting it so will be very disappointed if I don't ! Last 10k was great Ireland and I was 40:20ish I think this course should be that little bit easier . I think I'll try bank a bit of time early on first 5k is mostly downhill from memory.

Best of luck with this, it's a lot more favourably disposed to a fast time than the GIR. Certainly sub-40 is well within your capability.

Wubble Wubble

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

A bit late giving my report for the 1st week of the plan, but thought I'd share anyway!!

Monday: Shaun T T25 workout, includes weight work, core work and a little cardio

Tuesday: 3 miles, 9.58 min/miles

Wednesday: 5 miles, 9.09min/miles + 5x100m strides

Thursday: 3 miles, 9.41min/miles

Friday: T25 workout

Saturday: 16km (about 10 miles) 6.51min/km
I did this on a treadmill because I was away for the weekend, so that's why it's in kilometres

All in all a good first week, nothing major to report! Loved doing the strides on Wednesday, did them at the end of my 5 miles between football field posts.

My LSR on Saturday was a bit of a nightmare, thought I'd have to postpone it to today which I didn't want to do on my first week, my hotel didn't have a gym so had to blag my way into another hotels gym, they were very kind to let me use it.

I was thinking of aiming for a 4hr30 marathon time but my Wednesday runs are a little quicker so I think I'll stick with the quicker pace and maybe hopefully I'll be able to keep it up during the training plan!

Nice work! and bonus points for the bit of initiative at the other hotel :pac:

Damo 2k9

Officially signed up for the marathon and the Fingal-10k, definitely feels more real now, cannot bloody wait for it!

Number one on the list after holidays, is a proper pair of runners. Recommendations? Don't think I'll skimp out on these, so will go for the gait analysis etc. The brother told me to head into Runways but if there's anywhere better then I'll give there a try too.

muddypaws

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Officially signed up for the marathon and the Fingal-10k, definitely feels more real now, cannot bloody wait for it!

Number one on the list after holidays, is a proper pair of runners. Recommendations? Don't think I'll skimp out on these, so will go for the gait analysis etc. The brother told me to head into Runways but if there's anywhere better then I'll give there a try too.

I'm trawling the net at the moment looking for the best price on Brooks Vapors, I have two pairs and really like them, although I don't know if I should go for the Adrenalines GTS instead.

nedsgarden

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

You certainly may join, nedsgarden lurk no more!

Out of curiosity, when did you do your three half marathons? A distance I love, into double figures on those myself, but none this year as yet.

In relation to the R'N'R and Derry, have you any idea on how you plan on approaching those ones? The reason I ask this question, is that they are only 3 weeks apart.
I don't know about the Derry half, but R'N'R is a significantly net uphill course, which many considerably faster and more experienced runners than you or I have struggled with. So it may be a case of having to race one, and treat the other as a session. Of course, the final decision on all of this will be your own

As regards the marathon itself, 4:30 looks like it may be well within your compass Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Wubble

Two halfs last year and Omagh on April 1st this year.

I have heard that there is an incline in the R'N'R, i will treat it as a session, it's a bit of break for the family in Dublin in August.

Thanks for your reply and future help !!!!

neds

Battery Kinzie

I just signed up there. Added the iTab thing even though I'm not sure exactly what it is or whether I want it. Fear of missing out is a cruel mistress.

The Muppet

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

I just signed up there. Added the iTab thing even though I'm not sure exactly what it is or whether I want it. Fear of missing out is a cruel mistress.

The itab is a little piece of metal that sticks into a slot at the back of your medal with your name and finishing time engraved on it. It will be posted to you a few weeks after the run.

excitementcity

The Black Oil wrote: »

I haven't run with an audio device in quite a while. I don't miss it. The road I use for warming up is probably what I found the most boring. Saying that, there's sometimes little things - yesterday, a lost pair of earphones, there's some baby hens knocking around (and the parents) and there's a chap who seems to have a weekend routine with his 97 Opel Astra. Get the odd positive shout too. There's a dog walker who is probably sick of me by now. I only use a small bit of the bypass as I don't really have an interest in running it or crossing busy roundabouts, etc. Running after work, well, knowing I'm not stuck in traffic helps. Will this week be the third week of the abandoned white wan with a puncture?

Long runs - I go the back roads. This is very familiar from DCM training last year, mostly quiet. It's everything, the fields, nature, knowing what this bend feels like, tarmac better in some places compared to others. Another dog walker is friendly and who keeps her 2-3 dogs calm as I pass. It's also the rhythm of my body and the feel of the run itself, letting the mileage clock up. Confident I'll get back home, shower and refuel and the rest of Sunday is mine. :P I'm perhaps in a slightly different situation, last year the training was by distance, this year I'm running by time and maybe this has a bearing on how I feel. I didn't mention it in my log, but I was smiling quite a bit on my runs this week...

Is there anything of interest to you, a park? Is running with someone possible? Good luck.

Ah great post Black Oil. I know what you mean just taking in the world around you. That's definitely the way to do it. I think I'm probably just suffering from the mind constantly being on the go so when I do have time to slow down and think about nothing my mind resists! Sometimes in this world of constant activity and rushing it's hard to just 'be' when you get the chance.

Yeah I wouldn't mind but I have the seafront in clontarf which is fab and a lovely park to run through so I have nothing to complain about. I think by nature I don't like routine (some people love it) so when things start to get the same I start getting a bit antsy! I should probably change up my routes a bit.

Thank you for reminding me to just enjoy where I am

excitementcity

skyblue46 wrote: »

Is it possible that you are running all runs at your pace and that your long and easy runs could be slower?

Yeah you're probably dead right skyblue46...I really need to slow down...same as others though I just feel like I'm crawling then. I know you're right though.

excitementcity

aine_fainne wrote: »

I like to use Audiobooks for most of my training as they help me run at a nice even pace and you can easily get caught up in the story. I'm currently working my way through the Harry Potter series read by Stephen Fry which are so enjoyable. Have yet to try listening to an audiobook version of a book I haven't read before though

Aine_fainne I really need to pull out the podcasts and audiobooks again methinks....Love Stephen Fry...

Kmagic

Anyone got any advice on cumulative fatigue? I'm aiming for an earlier marathon due to a holiday on DCM weekend so I'm on week 8 of the Higdon novice 1 plan this week. I've got my first race under orders ever this weekend with the planned half marathon (it's in Cahir, Co. Tipperary this sunday)

However since the 10 miler a couple of weeks ago I feel like I'm always a days rest short. Is this a fitness thing that will sort itself out in time? Has anyone else experienced this as they increased their mileage?

Or more likely, am i just being a bit daft fot not realising that "training for a marathon" wasn't going to be all sunshine and rainbows and unicorns and in actual fact it a big undertaking which requires hard work and effort?

Baby75

Kmagic wrote: »

Anyone got any advice on cumulative fatigue? I'm aiming for an earlier marathon due to a holiday on DCM weekend so I'm on week 8 of the Higdon novice 1 plan this week. I've got my first race under orders ever this weekend with the planned half marathon (it's in Cahir, Co. Tipperary this sunday)

However since the 10 miler a couple of weeks ago I feel like I'm always a days rest short. Is this a fitness thing that will sort itself out in time? Has anyone else experienced this as they increased their mileage?

Or more likely, am i just being a bit daft fot not realising that "training for a marathon" wasn't going to be all sunshine and rainbows and unicorns and in actual fact it a big undertaking which requires hard work and effort?

Maybe take an extra day if you need it, hopefully the two rest days before Sunday will have you feeling great for your race.I am sure someone with more experience will have wiser words Good luck for Sunday

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

More good questions!

Every run should have a purpose.
The 'purpose' of 'recovery runs' are to help you recover - they move blood around the legs helping to repair the micro tears in the fibres - so for recovery runs - even a shuffle is sufficient. I would recommend a recovery run over a rest day unless the body is calling out for a rest day.
The recovery run helps you recover to run better the next day/week.

As an example - My recovery pace is about 3 mins slower than my 10k pace.

Easy runs are for getting more mileage in without taxing the body - thats their purpose.
Your comment regarding the 6:13/km run - if thats what the body wanted then thats ok.

The important thing about running is that you need to run to what suits your body on any given day. Some times your easy pace will be faster and sometimes slower - all depending on weather, how you feel, sleep, food, pi$$ed off with work etc.
If McMillan says you have to run at a certain pace - thats a guideline - the real guide is what your body is telling you.
I guess if you run slow enough on an easy day that your form and mechanics start to change - then that's probably too slow.

Theres a set of videos on you tube from legendary coach Jack Daniels and he goes through different workouts etc.
Here is his thoughts on Easy pace - its only 90s long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJd2e5qbFo


Dont over think it too much - a 5th short recovery run is very beneficial and wont hurt you in the long run.

I dont quite get your question around 'Xmiles with no specific pace' - as far as I can see on the Boards plan - all the runs have a specification around pace??

If in doubt run 'easy' - remember the marathon is a pure aerobic event - easy miles should be the vast majority of your running.

As always thanks for the very detailed and helpful reply AMK

The part in bold i refer to for example last week we had "5m with 5 x 100m strides" so pace/effort for the 5m is what i was querying. And likewise next week we have "5m with 5 x hill sprints".