DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

ariana`

Bit late but here's a summary for Week 1 for me

I was to plan on mileage but missed the target paces a bit

Monday: 5k @ 5:50 bit fast for 'easy' closer to PMP
Tuesday: 7.2km @ 6:10 skipped the strides cos i was feeling a few niggles which i put down to tiredness
Wednesday: 5.5k @ 6:35 still feeling tired, closer to recovery pace than easy
Thursday: Yoga
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 17km (10.5m) @ 6:24 felt fresh throughout, this run gave me a lift after feeling a bit down earlier in the week
Sunday: Rest

This week is tough for me as my husband is away for 3 nights and with 3 little ones and no treadmill that means no running for 3 days but i'm hoping to fit in the planned runs Mon-Wed & Sunday evening for the LSR. I usually do the LSR first thing in the morning on an empty stomach so i'm not sure how Sunday evening will play out.

deisedude

For anyone looking to do a bit of strength cross training from home I stumbled across a free website last week with thousands of workout videos. All you need is 2 dumbells, the quality is superb

http://hasfit.com/

AuldManKing

Kmagic wrote: »

Anyone got any advice on cumulative fatigue? I'm aiming for an earlier marathon due to a holiday on DCM weekend so I'm on week 8 of the Higdon novice 1 plan this week. I've got my first race under orders ever this weekend with the planned half marathon (it's in Cahir, Co. Tipperary this sunday)

However since the 10 miler a couple of weeks ago I feel like I'm always a days rest short. Is this a fitness thing that will sort itself out in time? Has anyone else experienced this as they increased their mileage?

Or more likely, am i just being a bit daft fot not realising that "training for a marathon" wasn't going to be all sunshine and rainbows and unicorns and in actual fact it a big undertaking which requires hard work and effort?

Running a marathon is easy - its the training for it that's the hard part!!
its a fine line with a mix of a delicate balancing act

The early days are hard as your body really needs to adapt and this takes time.
But your latter point is right - it is a tough thing to train for a marathon.

If you feel you need a rest day - take it - always listen to the body, but dont get too soft and miss days all over the place!

The concept of cumulative fatigue is your friend, believe it or not - its teaching your body to run on tired legs - just like the last 6 miles of the marathon.

There is an old saying about the marathon - its split in 2 halves - the 1st 20 miles and the last 6 miles.

The more you run on tired legs the easier the last 6m will be.

Best of luck with the half - remember this is a monster session and will require you to rest in advance and recover well afterwards.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

As always thanks for the very detailed and helpful reply AMK

The part in bold i refer to for example last week we had "5m with 5 x 100m strides" so pace/effort for the 5m is what i was querying. And likewise next week we have "5m with 5 x hill sprints".

aha - now I get it - yes - this is always easy pace

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

This week is tough for me as my husband is away for 3 nights and with 3 little ones and no treadmill that means no running for 3 days but i'm hoping to fit in the planned runs Mon-Wed & Sunday evening for the LSR..

When caught like this, you'd be amazed at what you can do.
Do some dynamic warmups 1st - leg swings etc - then try running fast up the stairs 10-20 times - with a walk back down.

Great for calf strength and only takes a few mins.

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

Running a marathon is easy - its the training for it that's the hard part!!
its a fine line with a mix of a delicate balancing act

The early days are hard as your body really needs to adapt and this takes time.
But your latter point is right - it is a tough thing to train for a marathon.

If you feel you need a rest day - take it - always listen to the body, but dont get too soft and miss days all over the place!

The concept of cumulative fatigue is your friend, believe it or not - its teaching your body to run on tired legs - just like the last 6 miles of the marathon.

There is an old saying about the marathon - its split in 2 halves - the 1st 20 miles and the last 6 miles.

The more you run on tired legs the easier the last 6m will be.

Best of luck with the half - remember this is a monster session and will require you to rest in advance and recover well afterwards.

Thanks for this, it's something i was thinking about at the weekend. I ran Mon-Wed and LSR on Sat but on Sat last my legs felt so fresh which was great but i did find myself wondering was i missing the training stimulus of running on tired legs. And this confirms my thoughts.

Talk to me about chafing :eek: How to prevent & how to heal? I had my first experience of it on Saturday's LSR. Been using sudocream on it since but last night's run aggravated it again :rolleyes: This sh*t just got real

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

When caught like this, you'd be amazed at what you can do.
Do some dynamic warmups 1st - leg swings etc - then try running fast up the stairs 10-20 times - with a walk back down.

Great for calf strength and only takes a few mins.

Might just try that, thanks. My cross training last week included skipping under the guise trying to teach my 7yr old the basic art :pac:

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks for this, it's something i was thinking about at the weekend. I ran Mon-Wed and LSR on Sat but on Sat last my legs felt so fresh which was great but i did find myself wondering was i missing the training stimulus of running on tired legs. And this confirms my thoughts.

Talk to me about chafing :eek: How to prevent & how to heal? I had my first experience of it on Saturday's LSR. Been using sudocream on it since but last night's run aggravated it again :rolleyes: This sh*t just got real

Just regarding the fatigue - dont worry about it too much yet - it'll build over the weeks, trust me.

For chafing, its important to have the right shorts (if thats where the problem is) - moisture wicking etc - no cotton.
People don't put enough time into picking shorts!

People try vaseline before runs, this is somewhat effective but for conditions with high heat or rain Bodyglide is better.


http://www.runnersworld.com/chafing/how-to-prevent-treat-chafing

leesider77

ariana` wrote: »

Talk to me about chafing :eek: How to prevent & how to heal? I had my first experience of it on Saturday's LSR. Been using sudocream on it since but last night's run aggravated it again :rolleyes: This sh*t just got real

Finally something I am an expert on . Vaseline or glide to prevent it in the first place. For faster healing, I use la roche posay cicaplast or Elizabeth Arden 8 hour cream ( I buy it when I travel as it is on the pricey side).

leesider77

Singer wrote: »

Here's a writeup I did of the Fingal 10k course last year:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100388609&postcount=4

There are a few minor changes this year, namely not swinging around the Pinnock Hill roundabout at 1k, and instead going immediately left onto the bypass. The distance is made up at the end of the race, the finish appears to be after the castle, so the last 100 metres or so are up a short hill - I think this was the exact setup for the 2014 Fingal 10k.

There's also a video of the entire course that was recently put up on the DCM's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dublinmarathon/videos/10155440291088185/

The drag in the last km is a bit of a b0ll0x, but mostly because of where it is in the race rather than it being an especially tough hill.

Thanks for this! You mentioned in your race report that you have run it a few times. I was going to run the course myself to try it out but from the video it looks like a lot of country roads with no footpaths - is it safe to run on my own?

Singer

leesider77 wrote: »

Thanks for this! You mentioned in your race report that you have run it a few times. I was going to run the course myself to try it out but from the video it looks like a lot of country roads with no footpaths - is it safe to run on my own?

I've run the route loads of times now, the roads aren't too busy. The stretch between Balheary Church and the Newtown Cottages has a few bends where you'll want to make sure you're visible to any cars coming so you'll need to cross over to run with the traffic a few times. I haven't been hit by a car yet!

Halloween Jack

Ugh, knots in thighs last week, head cold this week! Hope this isn't a sign of thing to come!

Baby75

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Ugh, knots in thighs last week, head cold this week! Hope this isn't a sign of thing to come!

I hear you, knot in my calf today I will have to work on it before running tonight

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

For chafing, its important to have the right shorts (if thats where the problem is) - moisture wicking etc - no cotton.
People don't put enough time into picking shorts!

People try vaseline before runs, this is somewhat effective but for conditions with high heat or rain Bodyglide is better.


http://www.runnersworld.com/chafing/how-to-prevent-treat-chafing

I possibly need to spend more time picking my next sports bra so :pac: but i assume the cause and solution are similar

Where does one buy bodyglide?

leesider77 wrote: »

Finally something I am an expert on . Vaseline or glide to prevent it in the first place. For faster healing, I use la roche posay cicaplast or Elizabeth Arden 8 hour cream ( I buy it when I travel as it is on the pricey side).

Poor you being an expert :eek: I have that la roche posay cream, i got it when one of the kids had some yucky skin thing going on but i would never have thought of using it, thanks

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Ugh, knots in thighs last week, head cold this week! Hope this isn't a sign of thing to come!

I take Vit C & Zinc every day and seems to keep the head colds away. Hope you feel better soon.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I possibly need to spend more time picking my next sports bra so :pac: but i assume the cause and solution are similar

Where does one buy bodyglide?

Oh I had similar issues with my sports bra when I ran my first few 10KM, it seems ok now but once it healed I wore one of those a little soft no support wicking fabric sports bra from pennies under it so far so good, no more chafing and I have not needed to wear it since!! that may change again as the miles increase though.

I have seen bodyglide on sale in loads of sports shops online I am sure it can be found closer to home though https://www.forrunnersbyrunners.com/FH3-10g.html?currency=2&gclid=Cj0KEQjw-ezKBRCGwqyK0rHzmvkBEiQAu-_-LBAU1DW6Gvqp1RJwd5kG1wkiat6Zlru148Q8-dMwhqMaAm4H8P8HAQ

skyblue46

excitementcity wrote: »

Yeah you're probably dead right skyblue46...I really need to slow down...same as others though I just feel like I'm crawling then. I know you're right though.

Since the programme started I have slowed my recovery and long run right down to the point of feeling it is too slow but as a very inexperienced 50 year old I'm putting myself in the hands of the experts and hopefully it pays off...both in the marathon and in enabling me take the line!

AuldManKing

Sports bras...............no sorry.
Im no help there.

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

Since the programme started I have slowed my recovery and long run right down to the point of feeling it is too slow but as a very inexperienced 50 year old I'm putting myself in the hands of the experts and hopefully it pays off...both in the marathon and in enabling me take the line!

What is your aim for the marathon?

skyblue46

AuldManKing wrote: »

What is your aim for the marathon?

Oh God, the million dollar question! Ok, honesty time it is. I'm fiercely determined. I never ran until starting the C25K in late 2014 and I struggled with the first few weeks of it. Since then I have given up cigarettes and lost 2 stone. However the determination has led to me overtraining and having numerous 2,3 and 4 month breaks. So this time I will try to be more circumspect. Did 1:48 for the half in 2015 and I am in better condition now than I was in July of that year. My Fingal 10k in '15 was 51:30. My IR 5 this year was 37:17 so I really hope to get well under 50 in 2 weeks time. Long winded answer but allowing for a relatively good 17 weeks training and adding some time to the optimistic predictions of McMillan etc that 4 hours is a borderline target. Do you think that is realistic?

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

Oh God, the million dollar question! Ok, honesty time it is. I'm fiercely determined. I never ran until starting the C25K in late 2014 and I struggled with the first few weeks of it. Since then I have given up cigarettes and lost 2 stone. However the determination has led to me overtraining and having numerous 2,3 and 4 month breaks. So this time I will try to be more circumspect. Did 1:48 for the half in 2015 and I am in better condition now than I was in July of that year. My Fingal 10k in '15 was 51:30. My IR 5 this year was 37:17 so I really hope to get well under 50 in 2 weeks time. Long winded answer but allowing for a relatively good 17 weeks training and adding some time to the optimistic predictions of McMillan etc that 4 hours is a borderline target. Do you think that is realistic?

Thanks for this - you've a great story here. Your times do indicate a strong sub 4 Marathon.

What pace are you doing your current easy and long runs at??

skyblue46

AuldManKing wrote: »

Thanks for this - you've a great story here. Your times do indicate a strong sub 4 Marathon.

What pace are you doing your current easy and long runs at??

I'm Sean on the Strava page so you can see there. I had always trained at 6 min per km or thereabouts. This week long run at 6.38 if I remember correctly. I'm experimenting as regards easy. Thanks for your kind comments, much appreciated.

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm Sean on the Strava page so you can see there. I had always trained at 6 min per km or thereabouts. This week long run at 6.38 if I remember correctly. I'm experimenting as regards easy. Thanks for your kind comments, much appreciated.

Excellent.

Your times indicate a sub 4hour marathon (3:45 actually ), but you need to replicate or better the 1.48 (if you dont, no worries as the DCM HM is a tough 1st 6m)

Long runs about 10 min/mile for a 4 hour marathon - I think you have more talent based on your results, so I'd push it a bit faster.

Heres a good article about a sub 4 marathon.

Heres another article - see the point about slowing down.

Keep the training going - your biggest worry should be making the start line and not getting injured

shortie_chik

AuldManKing wrote:

Sports bras...............no sorry. Im no help there.

Maybe I can help! I'd give these the thumbs up. They're good for minimising bounce! Both very comfortable and you can hook the straps together to make them racer back.

http://www.arnotts.ie/panache-underwire-5021-sports-bra-black/423276/100290100

http://www.arnotts.ie/freya-active-sports-bra-purple/437565/100500150150

D3PO

AuldManKing wrote: »

D3PO wrote: »

Be careful how ?



Either speed up slightly run with your proper form and mechanics or stop altogether.

I wouldn't know good running form if it jumped up and bit me in the arse but if the run "feel funny" I guss I will heed the advice.

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

Oh I had similar issues with my sports bra when I ran my first few 10KM, it seems ok now but once it healed I wore one of those a little soft no support wicking fabric sports bra from pennies under it so far so good, no more chafing and I have not needed to wear it since!! that may change again as the miles increase though.

I have seen bodyglide on sale in loads of sports shops online I am sure it can be found closer to home though https://www.forrunnersbyrunners.com/FH3-10g.html?currency=2&gclid=Cj0KEQjw-ezKBRCGwqyK0rHzmvkBEiQAu-_-LBAU1DW6Gvqp1RJwd5kG1wkiat6Zlru148Q8-dMwhqMaAm4H8P8HAQ

Thanks

AuldManKing wrote: »

Sports bras...............no sorry.
Im no help there.

:pac:

shortie_chik wrote: »

Maybe I can help! I'd give these the thumbs up. They're good for minimising bounce! Both very comfortable and you can hook the straps together to make them racer back.

http://www.arnotts.ie/panache-underwire-5021-sports-bra-black/423276/100290100

http://www.arnotts.ie/freya-active-sports-bra-purple/437565/100500150150

Thanks. I'll check those out

Last night i did the pace run from this week's boards plan, 1m w/u + 3m pmp + 1m c/d. It's a bit early to figure out my PMP but i went with 5:50min/km (marathon time of 4:06:xx) and i was chatting for all of it. My question is should I be pushing myself a little bit faster on this run as it's the only 'speed' work on the plan? I'm guessing the answer is that because I'm novice and the focus is on getting to the start and finish line in one piece then the risk of injury goes up too much if I run at say 10k pace.

Also, generally is it better practice to run even pace or even effort for these pmp runs?

Lazare

What's the thinking behind the relatively easy Wed and Thurs of this week's boards plan? Is it because of the 10 mile LSR coming up?

Would it be a bad idea to run easy pace instead of recovery pace tomorrow?

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

Last night i did the pace run from this week's boards plan, 1m w/u + 3m pmp + 1m c/d. It's a bit early to figure out my PMP but i went with 5:50min/km (marathon time of 4:06:xx) and i was chatting for all of it. My question is should I be pushing myself a little bit faster on this run as it's the only 'speed' work on the plan? I'm guessing the answer is that because I'm novice and the focus is on getting to the start and finish line in one piece then the risk of injury goes up too much if I run at say 10k pace.

Also, generally is it better practice to run even pace or even effort for these pmp runs?

If the plan is calling for 3m at PMP - then there is no point in going a lot faster as it changes the emphasis of the workout.

If you are chatting during the PMP miles - this is a good sign.

As the plan progresses you could train at a PMP at 10 secs per mile (or KM) faster but I wouldn't go faster than that - and I wouldn't do it for a few weeks.

For now its about getting used to running more regularly, getting used to the various paces and understanding what your body can tolerate.

Theres still 16 weeks or so to go, so plenty of training to come and you are quite correct, getting to the start line is the 1st consideration.

Regarding pace/effort - I'd say go with pace for now until you can judge the effort a bit better.

AuldManKing

Lazare wrote: »

What's the thinking behind the relatively easy Wed and Thurs of this week's boards plan? Is it because of the 10 mile LSR coming up?

Would it be a bad idea to run easy pace instead of recovery pace tomorrow?

WW would be better to answer this as I'm just a guest here

I'd say its to manage the mileage increase rather than anything else - too sharp an increase can cause injury.

Regarding pace - go with what you feel - as has been said before, some days you can run at 6min/km's but the next day you might just be feeling 6:45's.

Just dont under estimate the 10m run.

podgec10

I have finally convinced myself with the help of my wife (ran in 2014(3:54!!!)) to register for Dublin marathon. I couldn’t sleep on Monday night so at about 1:30am I took the plunge and registered. I’m a long time lurker here on A/R, kept up-to-date with this thread last year and got very excited when I saw this one start this year. Although I had a very bad winter as December and Jan were lost due to chest infection and asthma issues and a small operation on my foot (cosmetic I’m vain like that) ruled out Feb and most of March. I did circuits twice per week, cycled twice per week and ran parkrun on Saturday for 8 weeks in April and May. Did a sprint tri in June and decided I just prefer running.
I’m not technically a novice but I am a DCM novice and I really liked this thread last year. I hope to get involved as best I can but I live in West Cork (I know lucky me!!) and train on my own mostly so I going to try to use this as my club to keep me going, keep focused and keep the main thing the main thing.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5k – John Buckley sports May 2016 – 18:45
10k – Courtmacsherry June 2016 – 39:13 (trained for this specifically)
10k – Courtmacsherry June 2017 – 41:10 (last friday and felt good, finishing strong and fast)
Half Marathon – Charleville Sep 2016 – 1:30:06 (didn’t train properly for this) lots of pain for last 5K
Marathon – Killarney Lakes May 2015 – 3:39

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I like to keep fairly fit all the time. Numerous triathlons, adv races. I love to swim and I like to cycle but just can't get the real love for it but always comes back to running in the end. It so accessible and convenient.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Follow the plan, make the start line, make the finish line, beat 3:39, sub 3:20. All of these in this order!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I plan to train 5 (runs) to 6 (+1 cross train) days a week. I have started to use the HH Inter 1 plan. I very loosely followed HH mar3 plan previously but I’m not very good at following plans so the main thing for me this year is to follow a plan, any plan and I’m sure things will go well.

Why are you running this marathon?
I want to experience Dublin marathon with the crowds and nearly 20,000 runners. it'll be amazing!
I didn’t follow the plan correctly for my first marathon, it was Killarney lakes marathon May 2015. Very small crowd and while the first 21 miles were solid 3:30 pace with the pacer, I lost 9 mins over the last 5.2 miles. I needed to run more and follow a plan correctly.

Good luck to everyone.

D3PO

2 questions for ya Auldman or anybody else who wants to chime in

1. I'm in Wk4 of my training program. The LSR had been building up the past 3 weeks wk1 6 miles, wk2 7 miles, wk3 8 miles. This week the program calls for m to revert to a 6 mile LSR before jumping up to a 9 mil LSR for Wk5.

Does this sound logical to you guys ? Here's the plan I'm following

https://www.walkjogrun.net/training/marathon/training-plan.cfm?raceDt=10%2F29%2F2017&planId=full-int-run

2. In Wk6 I'm due to do a 10 mile LSR on Saturday but I've got the 10km Fingal on the Sunday. I presume postponing the LSR doing say a 6 mile recovery run on the Saturday in its place and then doing the LSR on the Tuesday so would be ok ? I intend on running the 10k as hard as I can so probably not advisable to do a 10 mile LSR the day before !