DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

skyblue46

D3PO wrote: »

2 questions for ya Auldman or anybody else who wants to chime in

1. I'm in Wk4 of my training program. The LSR had been building up the past 3 weeks wk1 6 miles, wk2 7 miles, wk3 8 miles. This week the program calls for m to revert to a 6 mile LSR before jumping up to a 9 mil LSR for Wk5.

Does this sound logical to you guys ? Here's the plan I'm following

https://www.walkjogrun.net/training/marathon/training-plan.cfm?raceDt=10%2F29%2F2017&planId=full-int-run

2. In Wk6 I'm due to do a 10 mile LSR on Saturday but I've got the 10km Fingal on the Sunday. I presume postponing the LSR doing say a 6 mile recovery run on the Saturday in its place and then doing the LSR on the Tuesday so would be ok ? I intend on running the 10k as hard as I can so probably not advisable to do a 10 mile LSR the day before !

I can't help you with reorganising your schedule around the Fingal 10k, that's for someone with more know how than I. However step back weeks are common in all marathon training programmes. It allows the body to recover a little for the next step up. Don't be tempted to increase the long runs for 18 weeks as it would do you more harm than good.

AuldManKing

D3PO wrote: »

2 questions for ya Auldman or anybody else who wants to chime in

1. I'm in Wk4 of my training program. The LSR had been building up the past 3 weeks wk1 6 miles, wk2 7 miles, wk3 8 miles. This week the program calls for m to revert to a 6 mile LSR before jumping up to a 9 mil LSR for Wk5.

Does this sound logical to you guys ? Here's the plan I'm following

https://www.walkjogrun.net/training/marathon/training-plan.cfm?raceDt=10%2F29%2F2017&planId=full-int-run

2. In Wk6 I'm due to do a 10 mile LSR on Saturday but I've got the 10km Fingal on the Sunday. I presume postponing the LSR doing say a 6 mile recovery run on the Saturday in its place and then doing the LSR on the Tuesday so would be ok ? I intend on running the 10k as hard as I can so probably not advisable to do a 10 mile LSR the day before !

Skyblue is correct - its called a stepback week and the reason for it is to allow your body to adapt to the stress of the previous few weeks training. By pushing too hard all the time, your body doesn't adapt, it just gets tired and breaks down.

Regarding the LSR the week of Fingal - I would not try to reschedule it.
You'll be running the 10k at a lot faster pace than the LSR, so the training effect you get from the 10k will be more than you'd get from the LSR.

Doing a 1m warm up and a 1m cool down, brings it over 8 miles for the day - treat the 10k as a monster session and don't try to make up the LSR the following week as it'll impact your other training.

AuldManKing

podgec10 wrote: »

Why are you running this marathon?
I want to experience Dublin marathon with the crowds and nearly 20,000 runners. it'll be amazing!
I didn’t follow the plan correctly for my first marathon, it was Killarney lakes marathon May 2015. Very small crowd and while the first 21 miles were solid 3:30 pace with the pacer, I lost 9 mins over the last 5.2 miles. I needed to run more and follow a plan correctly.

Good luck to everyone.

Welcome - what plan are you intending on following? For a 3:30 marathon, you need something a bit more aggressive than the Boards or HH plans.

AuldManKing

This thread has over 37,000 views and the Boards Strava Club has over 60 people, yet we still have only a few contributors to the thread.

The fun is in the sharing - helping other people see that they are going through the same thing as everyone else.

Lets share the training, peoples

Spirogyra

Am finding that the more I run, the less in need of a rest-day I am. Did 2 miles this morning, after a 'CLub' session last night. Wednesday is normally a 'rest-day'. (I know 2 mile's is not a lot but it's the principle of not resting completely). If all goes as planned, it will be a 'six day week' in terms of running The value of a slow and gentle recovery the day after an intensive run.

ariana`

Spirogyra wrote: »

Am finding that the more I run, the less in need of a rest-day I am. Did 2 miles this morning, after a 'CLub' session last night. Wednesday is normally a 'rest-day'. (I know 2 mile's is not a lot but it's the principle of not resting completely). If all goes as planned, it will be a 'six day week' in terms of running The value of a slow and gentle recovery the day after an intensive run.

Thanks. This backs up a reply AMK gave to a query i had last week on the purpose/benefit of recovery runs.

Unfortunately i find it hard to get out the extra days, i'm already getting the "you're not running again mammy are you?" questions from the kids But for what it's worth i do try to stay active every day, chasing the same kids around the place and don't underestimate a walk pushing a double buggy while trying to keep pace with a 7 yr old on a bike :eek:

D3PO

AuldManKing wrote: »

Skyblue is correct - its called a stepback week and the reason for it is to allow your body to adapt to the stress of the previous few weeks training. By pushing too hard all the time, your body doesn't adapt, it just gets tired and breaks down.

Regarding the LSR the week of Fingal - I would not try to reschedule it.
You'll be running the 10k at a lot faster pace than the LSR, so the training effect you get from the 10k will be more than you'd get from the LSR.

Doing a 1m warm up and a 1m cool down, brings it over 8 miles for the day - treat the 10k as a monster session and don't try to make up the LSR the following week as it'll impact your other training.

Thanks to you and Skyblue. Appreciate the answers.

Wubble Wubble

Lazare wrote: »

What's the thinking behind the relatively easy Wed and Thurs of this week's boards plan? Is it because of the 10 mile LSR coming up?

Would it be a bad idea to run easy pace instead of recovery pace tomorrow?

AuldManKing wrote: »

WW would be better to answer this as I'm just a guest here

I'd say its to manage the mileage increase rather than anything else - too sharp an increase can cause injury.

Regarding pace - go with what you feel - as has been said before, some days you can run at 6min/km's but the next day you might just be feeling 6:45's.

Just dont under estimate the 10m run.

@Lazare I wouldn't say a 3m pace run is easy in week 2

AMK has got it right, it's to do with mileage increases.
If you cast your eye a tiny bit to the right, you see the planned weekly mileage, which increases sharply in the early weeks, particularly if you compare it to HHN1.

Particularly for first timers, this can take a bit of adaptation, which is why we emphasise the need for (less) speed on the easy days

excitementcity

shortie_chik wrote: »

Maybe I can help! I'd give these the thumbs up. They're good for minimising bounce! Both very comfortable and you can hook the straps together to make them racer back.

http://www.arnotts.ie/panache-underwire-5021-sports-bra-black/423276/100290100

http://www.arnotts.ie/freya-active-sports-bra-purple/437565/100500150150

Just to follow up on the sports bra chaffing thing I can vouch for these too https://www.decathlon.ie/sportance-sports-bra-en-s145887.html (well so far so good) in decathalon....love that shop (albeit it's only in NI) but can order online...great prices for sports gear

excitementcity

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks. This backs up a reply AMK gave to a query i had last week on the purpose/benefit of recovery runs.

Unfortunately i find it hard to get out the extra days, i'm already getting the "you're not running again mammy are you?" questions from the kids But for what it's worth i do try to stay active every day, chasing the same kids around the place and don't underestimate a walk pushing a double buggy while trying to keep pace with a 7 yr old on a bike :eek:

Ariana, I meant to come back to you about trying to fit in the runs while hubby is not around. Not sure of the ages of your younger two but if they are still in the buggy as you mentioned above could you run with the buggy and get the 7 year old on the bike and give them a job like trying to time you or something. That way you get the run in while having to mind the kids. I have known moms to do their runs around a soccar pitch while kids were practicing..that's dedication in my book!

If I'm stuck like today I'll run with the double buggy, just ply them with food and promise the playground afterwards and it usually works a treat. Or I'll run parkrun with the buggy. It's defo doable but easier to do on a slower run so you can chat and distract them while also trying to run....it's funny how quickly they get used to it. Now they get upset if we don't get to do 'parkrun' (i.e.any running in the buggy = parkrun). At the same time, it's so much easier to go out and run just on your own

excitementcity

Random question all.

Just wondering what running watches you are using if you have one?

My old Garmin is on the verge of giving up the ghost so looking into a new one. The strap is currently sellotaped together and it's no longer syncing to Garmin connect!

Cheers

positron

excitementcity wrote: »

Just wondering what running watches you are using if you have one?

Happy with Garmin Forerunner 230 for acitivities I do (running & cycling), can't comment about swimming or gym work. Also it's not as accurate as Xiaomi MiBand for sendentary warning, but that's possibly due to battery saving setting. I can imagine 235 or Vivoactive will be just as good or better with HR option.

Sheep1978

Training plan has already gone to pot due to injury. Been visiting the physio last few weeks but not sure how much its helping. Was looking forward to committing to the plan and really getting stuck in, particularly as the mileage went up and got really challenging. Extremely frustrated at the minute and making me pretty angry if I'm honest.

ariana`

excitementcity wrote: »

Ariana, I meant to come back to you about trying to fit in the runs while hubby is not around. Not sure of the ages of your younger two but if they are still in the buggy as you mentioned above could you run with the buggy and get the 7 year old on the bike and give them a job like trying to time you or something. That way you get the run in while having to mind the kids. I have known moms to do their runs around a soccar pitch while kids were practicing..that's dedication in my book!

If I'm stuck like today I'll run with the double buggy, just ply them with food and promise the playground afterwards and it usually works a treat. Or I'll run parkrun with the buggy. It's defo doable but easier to do on a slower run so you can chat and distract them while also trying to run....it's funny how quickly they get used to it. Now they get upset if we don't get to do 'parkrun' (i.e.any running in the buggy = parkrun). At the same time, it's so much easier to go out and run just on your own

The kids are 7, 4 & 2. The 4 (closer to 5 than 4 really) & 2 yrs olds are pretty heavy in the double so i don't think i'd manage to run. I rarely enough put them in because when i'm shopping etc. i prefer to use a single and have the 4yr to walk so i'm telling him he's too big for a buggy, i'm sending him the wrong message putting him in the double for the odd walk even though i do! The double buggy is a huge yoke which to be honest i'd like to getting rid off at this stage :rolleyes:

But i've gotten much better at squeezing in runs when i can including running around the GAA pitches on occasion when U8 & U6 training is on, needs must :rolleyes:

excitementcity wrote: »

Random question all.

Just wondering what running watches you are using if you have one?

My old Garmin is on the verge of giving up the ghost so looking into a new one. The strap is currently sellotaped together and it's no longer syncing to Garmin connect!

Cheers

I have the FR235 and i'm happy with it. It's not the sleekest looking watch but functionally it does everything i want. It has the optical HRM so no need for a chest strap. And it syncs with Strava by Bluetooth. I previously had a FR10 which did the job but i'm enjoying the extras with the 235.

ariana`

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Training plan has already gone to pot due to injury. Been visiting the physio last few weeks but not sure how much its helping. Was looking forward to committing to the plan and really getting stuck in, particularly as the mileage went up and got really challenging. Extremely frustrated at the minute and making me pretty angry if I'm honest.

Sorry to hear this but better now than next September/October. Has the physio been able to give you a prognosis? Can you cross train in the meantime at all - swimming, elliptical or cycling are all great for keeping the aerobic fitness.

muddypaws

shortie_chik wrote: »

Maybe I can help! I'd give these the thumbs up. They're good for minimising bounce! Both very comfortable and you can hook the straps together to make them racer back.

http://www.arnotts.ie/panache-underwire-5021-sports-bra-black/423276/100290100

http://www.arnotts.ie/freya-active-sports-bra-purple/437565/100500150150

I hate underwired, I know sometimes there's not really any option, but are they actually comfortable?

I have two from Lidl that I use, and I find them great for the actual running, but the getting on and off is a pain, especially after a sweaty or rainy run, am wondering if I need to take a trip to Dublin to be fitted properly somewhere.

brownbinman

positron wrote: »

Happy with Garmin Forerunner 230 for acitivities I do (running & cycling), can't comment about swimming or gym work. Also it's not as accurate as Xiaomi MiBand for sendentary warning, but that's possibly due to battery saving setting. I can imagine 235 or Vivoactive will be just as good or better with HR option.

I got the Vivoactive HR on Black Friday in Gatwick and love it. Had the Forerunner 10 beforehand. Depends on if you think you'll use it for the HR monitor and/or swimming

drkpower

Hello all; have been lurking for a while but is time to come out of the shadows....

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?

Yes;
10M - April 17 1.14.36
10K - April 17 44.59
5k - (Parkrun) May 2017 20.58

Haven't done a HM before so first one is in the race series.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Since January 17, have done an average of 25k per week (2/3/4 runs per week) [before that i was a semi regular parkrunner, with an annual 10k somewhere, and a 100k cycle somewhere else with a bit of training in the lead-up, but that was about the height of it]
I am now in week 2 of a 'modified' Boards plan (basically 4 midweek runs home from work (4m) with a LSR at the weekend). All going fine so far.


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?


Dream is sub 3.40 (and in perhaps a moment of madness, when i signed up to the DCM, i signed up to the 3.40 group)
More realistically, i want to (a) just do it and (b) do it sub 4 hrs

I figure ill make a more concrete plan after the HM in September.


How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
4 + 1: 4 midweeks plus a LSR at the weekends (with possibly a 6th run in a good week)
[slightly] 'Modified' Boards 2017 plan

Why are you running this marathon?

This is the first time i have put really sustained effort into running, without hating it.... So i figure i would be mad to let that momentum slip without trying to do a marathon. From March through May i had 8 PBs in a row in the Parkruns, and the sense of achievement and progress was amazing; i have dropped the parkruns now (except at the end of a LSR once the Lions series is over...) but im looking forward (hopefully) to that same sense of satisfaction with incremental progress with each LSR (and yes, i fully appreciate there will be no 'satisfaction' involved whatsoever once i start getting into 13 mile plus territory...!)

It also looks like just an incredible experience generally. I went out to catch a glimpse of my brother doing the DCM a couple of years back with my daughter and i was struck by the amount of support that was around generally (i was around blackhall place and expected there to be noone there, but the crowds were deep even there). Also, I can only imagine the feeling (aside from pain) you must get in the last stretch where u can actually see the finishing line.

drkpower

Can anyone help me with a pacing query?

The McMillan calculator suggests that for a 3.40 marathon, the goal pace is 8.24, and the consequent long run pace is 8.07 - 9.25. However, i thought the perceived wisdom for the LSR was that it was 30 - 90 seconds slower then PMP, which should equate to a range of 8.54 - 9.54. Am i missing something or is there just different schools of though, each of which is acceptable?

AuldManKing

drkpower wrote: »

Can anyone help me with a pacing query?

The McMillan calculator suggests that for a 3.40 marathon, the goal pace is 8.24, and the consequent long run pace is 8.07 - 9.25. However, i thought the perceived wisdom for the LSR was that it was 30 - 90 seconds slower then PMP, which should equate to a range of 8.54 - 9.54. Am i missing something or is there just different schools of though, each of which is acceptable?

Yep - its a broad range and in a lot of ways it makes no sense on the face of it - but McMillan does give a range to factor in weather, terrain, how you feel etc.

Heres what he says about it:

The other thing to factor into this is that there are numerous ways to run a long run.
Not every athlete runs a 'long slow run' - some run 'long STEADY runs' others run 'Fast Finish Long runs' where its faster than MP.
Others run progression long runs which could finish at HMP or faster.

I guess, don't get hung up on the paces given in a calculator - stay within the range - moving outside that range works a different energy system.

Don't overthink it - at times there is too much information out there and you need to be able to make sense of it (that's our job to help you novices).

The general concensus on long runs (30-90s) is what you should be focused on as a novice marathoner.

choons

It has been mentioned a few times but there were 2500 spots left yesterday so anyone who is still on the fence, this is your push towards the finish line:

muddypaws

choons wrote: »

It has been mentioned a few times but there were 2500 spots left yesterday so anyone who is still on the fence, this is your push towards the finish line:

Finally booked it today, as well as the two local races to tie in with the plan, a 10miler and half. I had already signed up for an adventure race in Galway on 22nd July, which includes 8km running, so will see how that one goes.


I've also ordered new runners, gone from the Brooks Vapor to the Adrenaline GTs 16 on the advice of a friend, so will see how they feel before I get a pair for the marathon.

I did a 3 mile easy run last night in Belleek woods, after teaching two one hour classes, so was mentally worn out, and really enjoyed the run, its a fantastic place to run, some tough hills, but a nice flat near the end to push on slightly, and finish faster, which I hope is OK, its definitely nowhere near a sprint, just a small increase in pace.

quickbeam

I still haven't signed up. I don't think I will actually. It always was ambitious of me to consider it considering I only started running (from a very poor fitness level) last September. If I may, I'll continue to follow the plan and post here until it's officlally sold out and I've officially missed the chance to partake. Because, until then, there's always the chance I'll change my mind.

muddypaws

quickbeam wrote: »

I still haven't signed up. I don't think I will actually. It always was ambitious of me to consider it considering I only started running (from a very poor fitness level) last September. If I may, I'll continue to follow the plan and post here until it's officlally sold out and I've officially missed the chance to partake. Because, until then, there's always the chance I'll change my mind.

I only started running last June, also from a very poor fitness level, so I hope that, as the training continues, you decide that you will sign up.

skyblue46

quickbeam wrote: »

I still haven't signed up. I don't think I will actually. It always was ambitious of me to consider it considering I only started running (from a very poor fitness level) last September. If I may, I'll continue to follow the plan and post here until it's officlally sold out and I've officially missed the chance to partake. Because, until then, there's always the chance I'll change my mind.

Grab the bull by the horns and sign up!!! With the right plan and some dedication you can do it, absolutely no reason why not. Back yourself. It's ambitious for most of us genuine novices but a challenge wouldn't bring much satisfaction if it was easy. Genuinely hope you give it a go.

leesider77

muddypaws wrote: »

I only started running last June, also from a very poor fitness level, so I hope that, as the training continues, you decide that you will sign up.

Likewise quickbeam - on the big day, it would be reassuring to know that there will be a few more novices still clocking up the miles while the others are enjoying their pints

shortie_chik

aine_fainne wrote: »

I like to use Audiobooks for most of my training as they help me run at a nice even pace and you can easily get caught up in the story. I'm currently working my way through the Harry Potter series read by Stephen Fry which are so enjoyable. Have yet to try listening to an audiobook version of a book I haven't read before though

I LOVE this idea! I forsee myself needing more entertainment / a bit of a laugh as the LSRs get longer. Thanks for the idea! :pac:

excitementcity wrote: »

Just to follow up on the sports bra chaffing thing I can vouch for these too https://www.decathlon.ie/sportance-sports-bra-en-s145887.html (well so far so good) in decathalon....love that shop (albeit it's only in NI) but can order online...great prices for sports gear

"Designed for FEMALE RUNNERS seeking adjusted support and absolute comfort!"
I like how they're specifically targeting FEMALE RUNNERS with this product. I'm a female runner, this is a product for me!

excitementcity wrote: »

Random question all.
Just wondering what running watches you are using if you have one?
My old Garmin is on the verge of giving up the ghost so looking into a new one. The strap is currently sellotaped together and it's no longer syncing to Garmin connect!
Cheers

I have a fairly old Garmin Forerunner 405 - I'd say it's 8 years old maybe. I'm very happy with it, I'm sure there's a newer model now though.

muddypaws wrote: »

I hate underwired, I know sometimes there's not really any option, but are they actually comfortable?
I have two from Lidl that I use, and I find them great for the actual running, but the getting on and off is a pain, especially after a sweaty or rainy run, am wondering if I need to take a trip to Dublin to be fitted properly somewhere.

There are some non-underwired styles on the website too. I wear underwired bras everyday, so I'm used to them. These 2 are the first underwired sports bras I've ever worn and I find them very comfy. The underwires are well covered. My sports bras have been getting a lot of washing+wearing these last few months and are still in great condition, no sign of underwire poking out. I do machine wash them in a net bag though.

I don't think I could go back to non-underwired or one that goes over my head again. I'm buying DD/E cup so I need a fair bit of structure! Another plus for me is that the underwire / maximum hold styles keep you separated! Uniboob seems like just another potential area for chaffing.

A bonus is that these ones actually give you a nice shape, no harm in looking good while you run! :cool: I got fitted to buy these in Arnotts. The size I actually bought was nowhere near what I was measured as, so definitely worth getting some help to get the right fit.

quickbeam wrote: »

I still haven't signed up. I don't think I will actually. It always was ambitious of me to consider it considering I only started running (from a very poor fitness level) last September. If I may, I'll continue to follow the plan and post here until it's officlally sold out and I've officially missed the chance to partake. Because, until then, there's always the chance I'll change my mind.

I hope you will change your mind! Even if you run half and walk half, it's such a great buzz on the day! If you're not aiming for some really fast time, you can still have a ball and achieve a great personal goal. Do keep an eye on those sales notices!

leesider77 wrote: »

Likewise quickbeam - on the big day, it would be reassuring to know that there will be a few more novices still clocking up the miles while the others are enjoying their pints

I can guarantee I'll still be on the course after the 4:45 mark, but it'll feel better than watching from the sidelines!

I'll be aiming for just under 5 hours, last time I did 4:58 and I'll be happy to do the same time again. Mostly I'll be glad if I have the discipline to stick with the training and take part on the day.

(I obviously don't get to sign in from my laptop very often! )

muddypaws

shortie_chik wrote: »

"Designed for FEMALE RUNNERS seeking adjusted support and absolute comfort!"
I like how they're specifically targeting FEMALE RUNNERS with this product. I'm a female runner, this is a product for me!

I hadn't even noticed that, but now you've pointed out yes, excellent marketing strategy.

shortie_chik wrote: »

There are some non-underwired styles on the website too. I wear underwired bras everyday, so I'm used to them. These 2 are the first underwired sports bras I've ever worn and I find them very comfy. The underwires are well covered. My sports bras have been getting a lot of washing+wearing these last few months and are still in great condition, no sign of underwire poking out. I do machine wash them in a net bag though.

I don't think I could go back to non-underwired or one that goes over my head again. I'm buying DD/E cup so I need a fair bit of structure! Another plus for me is that the underwire / maximum hold styles keep you separated! Uniboob seems like just another potential area for chaffing.

A bonus is that these ones actually give you a nice shape, no harm in looking good while you run! :cool: I got fitted to buy these in Arnotts. The size I actually bought was nowhere near what I was measured as, so definitely worth getting some help to get the right fit.

I'll be aiming for just under 5 hours, last time I did 4:58 and I'll be happy to do the same time again. Mostly I'll be glad if I have the discipline to stick with the training and take part on the day.

(I obviously don't get to sign in from my laptop very often! )

Haha, I hadn't thought about the chafing from uniboob but again, excellent point.

The only real issue I've had with a sports bra and running is with a shock absorber, now it is a few years old at this stage, but it actually cut my shoulders, lots of little scratches, but very sore, hence the switch to the Lidl over the head type.

I have a time in my head, but its probably no achievable, so I won't fixate on it, as someone else said earlier in the thread, if there's a 4 at the beginning, I'll be happy.

Battery Kinzie

Anyone here run with a bag?

How do those of you that do stop your t-shirt from bunching up at the back and end up leaving half your back bare? I really feel like I'm missing something obvious with preventing it, but I haven't been able to find a reliable way. I can tuck my t-shirt into my shorts at the back, but that only delays the inevitable.

quickbeam

Thank the gods for small boobs