DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Wubble Wubble

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Week 2 report!

Monday: strength & conditioning video

Tuesday: 3 miles (pace 9.46)

Wednesday: 5 miles (pace 9.02) & 1.6 miles cooldown (10.28)

Saturday: 10 miles (pace 10.49)

Learnt loads this week!
My Wednesday training went great and my fifth mile was my fastest ever mile (8.20 pace) delighted with myself!!
However pushing too hard on Wednesday combined with missing training on Thursday & Friday (family emergency) and missing meals also on thurs or fri led to an exhausting 10 miles yesterday. My legs were ssooooo tired, I was starving and thirsty and I thought I'd never be finished. Even today I was still tired. I have now realised how important nutrition is and also not to go over the top on my Wednesday run, not so early in the plan anyway!
I managed to get on the bike for 40mins today and I did some foam rolling as well so legs feel a little better now. Looking forward to week 3!

Well done there, just be careful with the pacing; the idea with that one is to keep the pace fairly consistent for your run, there's a massive difference between 9:02 and 8:20. Hope all's well with real life.

BrownEyes79

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yes he told me 8-10 seconds for the hill sprints. I'm going to use that hill in the Park.

Might see you there!

Wubble Wubble

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

I tried running up that before, very slowly, and it nearly killed me!! But I wasn't as fit then! It is quite long for a sprint and bendy, the one into the forest trail might be good too but can be a bit lonely down there in the evenings.
I think Auldmanking said sprint for 10 seconds up the hill, so it doesn't have to be very long (correct me if I'm wrong!)

I know that hill very well; it's a tough one even for a lot of experienced runners.

In relation to sprinting up it, I certainly wouldn't recommend trying the lot, as it's far too long, leaving aside the fact that there's a hairpin bend about halfway up.

Either start from the bottom, or from just above the hairpin bend, and give it welly for 10 seconds. Can't believe I've never tried that particular hill sprint yet, as I like running in Catherine's.

BrownEyes79

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Well done there, just be careful with the pacing; the idea with that one is to keep the pace fairly consistent for your run, there's a massive difference between 9:02 and 8:20. Hope all's well with real life.

Thanks for the feedback, I got a bit carried away with myself! All ok with real life now thank god!

El Caballo

Kmagic wrote: »

Had 500mls and a glass of beetroot juice before. Maybe drank about 1 ltr while running, 500 mls up to mile 7 and 500mls after this, roughly.




I think about 10:30/ mile starting off but after mile 6 and my hamstring and walk run, my pacing was all over the place. So cant guess but i finished just under 2:23, times just uploaded.




Tricky this one. I tried running in 2013, did a few months and was stopped by my hamstring. That repeated itself a few times over the years. I played astro and basketball a bit during this time and never had hamstring issues really playing those, just running 10k 3 times a week seemed to be too much for me.

Then from this year, i was doing maybe 2 5ks a week in jan/feb, maybe 2 5ks and a 10k a week in april and then started the marathon plan 8 weeks ago.

Have you seen a physio about the hammy? getting it checked out and having a good stretching/rolling regime in place can do wonders for those tight muscles. Many people find it a chore to do but honestly, it's worth it in the end as your muscles and mind feel a thousand times better when you are loose.

The pre-race water seems ok, I'd usually drink about the same myself. one thing to be careful about is drinking too much water and/or too quickly as it has an effect on sodium levels which can cause issues like cramping and such.

Kmagic

El Caballo wrote:

Have you seen a physio about the hammy? getting it checked out and having a good stretching/rolling regime in place can do wonders for those tight muscles. Many people find it a chore to do but honestly, it's worth it in the end as your muscles and mind feel a thousand times better when you are loose.

I get physio when it acts up. The scar tissue is just there now, need to try manage it best i can. I do foam roll and stretch, maybe 26.2 is just too much my my hammy to take, based on today it does anyway.

El Caballo wrote:

The pre-race water seems ok, I'd usually drink about the same myself. one thing to be careful about is drinking too much water and/or too quickly as it has an effect on sodium levels which can cause issues like cramping and such.

I did knock back the water pretty quick when i got it, so i guess i need to take that into account also.

Wubble Wubble

Week 3

112 days to go, or 16 weeks if you prefer.

Some fantastic work for week 2 being recorded here. Let's have lots more reports from your week's running activities. Don't be shy! Same goes for all the lurkers

Pacing is going to be a big thing throughout. Try to keep it consistent during your run, not easy starting off, but it will benefit you enormously. Of course, the guideline about stopping if feeling unwell etc always applies.

Schedules for the plans are as follows:

HHN1: 3m easy + 4m easy + 3m easy + 5m LSR + cross
Boards: 3m easy + 5m with 5 x hill sprints + 4m easy + 13m LSR + 3m rec

In relation to the hill sprints, this drill should be undertaken towards the end of your run. For example, a 4m warmup, before 5 x 10 second bursts up the hill, and a 1 mile cooldown to finish off. The walk down the hill should be your recovery, although if you feel the need, take a few extra seconds at the bottom before going again.

Good luck!

AuldManKing

Jaysus - its great to log in and see all the conversations going on - our work here is nearly complete!!

I'm keeping an eye too on Strava and trying to get a feel for who is who!
We have 71 Strava members!!

Some great running this week - well done all.

About Recovery:
As your runs get longer - the recovery from a long run becomes more important.
The difference between a good recovery and a bad recovery can be felt the next day in sore, stiff legs.

After a long run, no matter how tired you are, try to do some stretching. it may only take 5 mins - but its the best 5 mins of the day. (Calfs/ Hamstrings / Quads / groin - just keep it simple - stretch each one for 30+ seconds.).

Chocolate milk is good after a run but only as an immediate recovery aid.
Try to get a proper breakfast/meal into you as soon as your stomach can handle it - hopefully within 30 mins of finishing your run. (eggs / toast etc - things with Protein and carbs)

Electrolytes are good too, before, during or after - as you sweat a lot.
Now - as you sweat, you lose a lot of salts and other stuff in your sweat - then you drink water - so your system becomes diluted with less natural salts/minerals and more water.
So, its important to replenish these through either electrolyte drinks (tablets) - Dioralyte is as good and less expensive.
This isn't essential - but if you are running on warm days and tend to sweat a lot - its a good tip.

Sometimes - 'cos I'm Auld - I'll take a coffee and then set my alarm for 15 mins - I can sleep straight away and in 15 mins, the coffee is just kicking in and I feel great again!

Going for a short 30-40min walk after a tiring long run (obviously not straight away )is also a good thing to do as it moves the blood around and aids recovery.

oh - yes - Hill sprints - 8-10 seconds - full sprint - remember, your not working the aerobic system, your working the neurological system to train the fast twitch fibers. They also help strengthen the tissues and muscles.
Remember to take a full recovery after each one.

AuldManKing

Lazare wrote: »

Savage session today AMK, wowzers.

What sort of time are you aiming for?

Sure, I'll be doing well to finish

quickbeam

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Good work there quickbeam, and bonus points for not leaving the run "short" how did you find doing the parkrun at that pace?

Felt like I gave it my all but the end result was disappointing as I had hoped to be improving my time there. However as I'm improving my distances each week I know I can't have it all ways and a PB in Parkrun will realistically be off the table while training for DCM.

quickbeam

AuldManKing wrote: »

Try to get a proper breakfast/meal into you as soon as your stomach can handle it - hopefully within 30 mins of finishing your run. (eggs / toast etc - things with Protein and carbs).

I have home made muesli - porridge oats, nuts and seeds with some sort of milk (usually skimmed dairy but sometimes soya or almond milk). Carbs from the oats, protein from the nuts, seeds and milk. Am I on the right track with that for breakfast? Have it daily whether I've done a run or not.

AuldManKing

So - 2 posters of note turned up - just so you know, El Caballo and YoungAnne are both long time boardsies.
If I'm not mistaken, Younganne was a mentor herself a few years back - and ElCaballo is one of the most informed people on running here. (at least he sounds like he knows what he's on about )
Both give great advice (important to know who to listen to)

AuldManKing

quickbeam wrote: »

I have home made muesli - porridge oats, nuts and seeds with some sort of milk (usually skimmed dairy but sometimes soya or almond milk). Carbs from the oats, protein from the nuts, seeds and milk. Am I on the right track with that for breakfast? Have it daily whether I've done a run or not.

yep - most certainly!!

If you have it every day - your body may crave additional calories after a long run as it has adapted to the calorie intake - thats ok too - but if not hungry or your feel you are managing your nutrition well in other ways - then theres no need to change.
* I'm not an expert here

Omeceron

Would running a half marathon race for the long run at LSR pace be a good or bad idea? Could make up the rest of the miles before or after.

Would help with water but temptation to go faster would be greater.

skyblue46

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Surely not the entire thread?

Joking aside, I would recommend you all have a read of at least some of last year's thread if time allows. It gives an excellent summary of what we went through in the buildup to DCM 2016, and of course all the trials and tribulations of the day itself

Haha, I read a fair bit of it. To be honest it was great reading and I can only hope our group develops the same sense of camaraderie and support as the '16 group. I mostly read the posts around the race series and the big day itself to see how people got on compared to their target times etc. and this was very interesting. As WW says folks it's well worth a read over.

El Caballo

AuldManKing wrote: »

El Caballo is one of the most informed people on running here. (at least he sounds like he knows what he's on about

:pac: fake it till you make it;)

clickerquicklic

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

This is a good thing ; that and the fact that you didn't up the pace. What was your pace on the run home from the parkrun?

In relation to tapering for the 10k, the plans have an extra rest day included. Basically, for those lining up, the race is replacing the LSR that weekend.

Hi WW , I ran down to park run at about 5:45min per km pace (legs heavy from cycle the night before) , I ran home from parkrun at 5:50min/km pace.

If I'm not running a specific workout , my pace varies a lot , I'm quiet a lazy runner just back from a 10k run that felt tough and I averaged 5:45km's , I could do that again next week at 4:40 pace and could feel much better. My laziness is emphasised by the fact I'd struggle to run sub 20 solo in training (i've tried ) but can run it casually when surrounded by others in a parkrun environment.

I'll have a look at the plan for Fingal week and make it an easy week.
Thank you.

AuldManKing

Omeceron wrote: »

Would running a half marathon race for the long run at LSR pace be a good or bad idea? Could make up the rest of the miles before or after.

Would help with water but temptation to go faster would be greater.

Yes - most definitely.

It helps with ensuring you have the right kit, right breakfast, timing to the start, getting water during the race, gels etc etc helps a lot with pre-race jitters (I had them terrible for a year or 2).

This year, my plan is to run the R&R half and the DCM Half as a session.
I'll do a few miles before hand and then run them at something like 2x5m@MP or 3x4@MP.
You could certainly do the 1st 9-10m as a LSR and then the last 3-4m at MP.
This would be a great session.

muddypaws

HHN1 week 2.

Monday Rest day, with a short cycle

Tuesday 3 miles easy after work @ 10:43. Lovely run, helped to blow the cobwebs away nicely.

Wednesday Rest day

Thursday 7 mile LSR in the evening @ 12:22. Quite a late run, met up with friends, although I ran on my own, due to one of them training for 5kms races, and the other mostly doing cycle training. Got eaten alive by midges when we stopped running, so the moral of the story obviously is keep on running

Friday Rest day

Saturday 3 miles easy @ 11:13. Did Athlone park run, an interesting course with lots of grass and off road running. Then drove on to Dublin for a long family day, with lots of walking. Climbed up the hill at Deer Park in Howth, most of the rest of my family were huffing and puffing, but I found it really easy, so I'm putting that down as cross training.

Sunday 3 miles easy @ 11:09 running with a lovely dog guest, who is used to running with her Dad. After yesterday I was absolutely shattered, and really had to push myself to get out this evening. Coffee and a few wine gums is good pre-run preparation isn't it?

LSR this week is only 5 miles, and I have an adventure race booked for 22nd July, with an 8km run then a 16km cycle, so I will do all the running on plan his week, but will increase my cycling. The race also includes 1km kayaking which I'm looking forward to, rather that than swimming.

skyblue46

So here is my report on week 2.

Monday: 5k recovery run @ 6.37 per Km. I had been one of those people who ran every run as something to leave me tired, sweating and feeling that "I've really pushed myself" feeling but now on the plan I am trying to have distinct paces for the different type of run. This was a very easy run following my 20k long run the day before.

Tuesday: 7.3k run @ 5.53 per km. Felt good and had to slow myself down numerous times as I was running at my hoped for marathon pace of 5.40 (target is 4 hours with a strong tailwind) without noticing.

Wednesday: 8k ( 1 mile W/U, 3 @ MP, 1 cooldown) @ 5.30 per km. Again I felt good and actually ran the MP miles too fast. Even allowing for the slower warm up and cooldown my total run pace was under MP. Note to self: More work needed on pacing!!

Thursday: Rest Day

Friday: LSR 22.50k @ 6.02 per km. This was a tough run and in no way comparable to the previous weeks LSR which I had finished with 3 x 5 minute kms after a very very easy first 17k. This time I was 30 seconds faster per km and I really felt it. The last 3 Km were mind over body! Stopped to tie a lace with 3 km to go and I found it hard to get going again.

Saturday: 6.7k Recovery @ 6.32. Again I slowed the recovery run right down though this time it wasn't really by choice. I was wrecked!! I did the LSR the day before, went to Aslan gig in the Iveagh Gardens where I stood for 3 hours, got to bed at midnight, up 3 hours later to go to work, worked 8 hours, came home, had a nap for an hour and then did this 'recovery' run ;-/

Sunday: 6.7k run @ 5.50: Beginning to feel half ok again. Nice steady paced run after work which felt ok.

So that's me for the week, approx 53km (34 miles) and thrilled to tick off another week :-))

Battery Kinzie

How long of a stop is too long in the middle of a long run? Today all I wanted to do was to sit on the grass in the sun for 15 minutes during my long run, but I limited myself to about 2 minutes at halfway. Would splitting up your long run with maybe half an hour sit around, maybe a dip in the sea, be too much?

leesider77

podgec10 wrote: »

This week's news!

Friday - rest with homemade pizza and Rioja (yummy) an open bottle of wine, is an open bottle of red to be kept in the fridge????

.

Another area of 'expertise' of mine ;-). I'd keep the red wine out of the fridge. Just put the cork back in and it'll be fine. Saying that I have sampled a glass of cold red wine in France so if the French serve it then it must be ok!

leesider77

Used my flights today to catch up on some reading. Started a book called non-runners marathon trainer. It's a bit dated and aimed surprisingly enough at non runners aiming to do a marathon ;-) but for novices who are having doubts about being able to do this, it could help on the mental side of things. Got a few tips to try when things get tough.

AuldManKing

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

How long of a stop is too long in the middle of a long run? Today all I wanted to do was to sit on the grass in the sun for 15 minutes during my long run, but I limited myself to about 2 minutes at halfway. Would splitting up your long run with maybe half an hour sit around, maybe a dip in the sea, be too much?

Its a bad habit to form. The legs recover and you dont get the same adaptations.

Id not do it. Its better to tough it out. Hit the sea at the end.

Baby75

Good evening all, great to log on and read through all the updates

My training went well although I have a very busy week with lots of running around, Before I decided to train for the Marathon we had signed up for a few adventure races our first is this saturday the 15th So I have been cycling as well as working on my running. and trying to train on hills as although the race on saturday is 5 km it is a hilly one, with a 20km before and after we start with 2km kayak which I am looking forward to.

But today LSR worked out later in the day than I had planned we brought the kids out to Oughaval in stradbally for a walk and I decided it would be good to get in my LSR as well I forgot how hilly or how steep some of the climbs were, all ok when walking not so fun when running them, once or twice I slowed to a walk as my pace was so slow it threw off my form. I did question my sanity on why I thought it would be a great idea to run in a forest. but I did it, I was slow but I felt good at the end, we had a lunch packed so enjoyed that when I finished. I also tried out a hydration pack for my back and was happy with it. I even got in some stretching before we came home
my week worked out like this;
Mon: rest day
Tuesday: run 3.8 average pace 10.03 pace felt good
Wednesday: was a brick session cycle run cycle so all in it was 33KM cycling with a 2.8 mile run avg pace was 11.19 (Hilly route)
Thursday : Run 3 miles avg pace 10.25 ( recovery)
Friday rest/ cycle but it was a very easy cycle just around shops for a few messages to give my calfs a break from all my walking and running
Saturday: cycle 16.7 miles
Sunday: LSR 7 miles @ avg pace a slow 11.35 but the elevation gains was 1,063ft :eek: in fairness I think I started high up so I think more likely 850ft


I also got my times back for a club run on Friday 30th of June it was 4k in 21 minutes 17 seconds delighted with that time

Sorry for the essay

Lazare

Went down to my gym session at 7am and the place was locked up. Just got a text back from the trainer to say he didn't have me down in the book for today, he normally starts at 8.

Tbh, I'd be lying if I said I was annoyed, calfs are tight this morning, probably not a bad idea to fully rest.

brownbinman

HH Wk 2 Review

Monday - Foam Roll
Tuesday - 8km - 4 laps of Munich Mile down Phoenix Park
Wednesday - 5km @ 5:31min/km pac. Foam roll
Thursday - Rest - Life got in the way
Friday - Foam Roll
Saturday - LSR 11.2km @ 6:16min/km pace
Sunday - Rest - Life got in the way (had to attack the back garden)

I'm starting to spot a few trends. My legs are beginning to become accustomed to the running as I'm not being as sore the next day. I missed my coffee and banana before my LSR and that may have been a mistake.

As per previous posters, I've been sticking to porridge for past few weeks every day. Horrible on nice mornings but I feel the benefit of it for most of the morning, especially on training days.

has anyone else noticed changes? I've toned up a good bit, lost my belly

I'm on the HH novice 1 plan so 14km on Saturday.

muddypaws

brownbinman wrote: »

I'm on the HH novice 1 plan so 14km on Saturday.

Are you sure? I am on the phone so can't check but I thought the LSR is only 5 miles this week?

D3PO

Week 4 completed and Im glad its over with TBH.

Really messy week with work and my young kids being sick which meant running was on the back foot. It kinda crept into my mentality aswell and I really had to work hard to get my arse off the sofa when I did get a window to run.

Thank god it was a step back week because id have really hated to deviate from plan on one of the more substancial weeks.

Monday 50 mins easy @ 5.50 km pace
Tuesday 50 mins Cycling
Wednesday 10km tempo run @ 5.29 km pace
Thursday 50 mins Yoga
Friday 50 mins recovery @ 6.30 km pace
Sunday 2km warm up 5km fast 24.08 and 2km warm down (supposed to be a 6 mile LSR but with the kids sick and work I didnt have a big enough window)

Not a great week but some decent sessions in there all the same. Hope to get back on track this week.

brownbinman

muddypaws wrote: »

Are you sure? I am on the phone so can't check but I thought the LSR is only 5 miles this week?

You're very much correct!! I think I added a little more as I'm doing the Fingal 10km the week after, so there would be a jump from 11km on week 2, to 16km on week 5

any advice on this would be very much appreciated