DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

choons

brownbinman wrote: »

You're very much correct!! I think I added a little more as I'm doing the Fingal 10km the week after, so there would be a jump from 11km on week 2, to 16km on week 5

any advice on this would be very much appreciated

Similar here, was planning 12km LSR this week but interested to hear what the experts think!

clickerquicklic

This week I want to get a 10k specific session in before Fingal .
The options -
3* 2 mile @10k pace (hate this sessionI know its murder and I've failed it before) I could increase rest and get it done probably.
6*1 mile @10k pace (seems easier)
5*2k @10k pace

None of them are that appealing !
What will give me the best bang for my buck? I was thinking of setting the rest at half the length of the interval .

muddypaws

brownbinman wrote: »

You're very much correct!! I think I added a little more as I'm doing the Fingal 10km the week after, so there would be a jump from 11km on week 2, to 16km on week 5

any advice on this would be very much appreciated

There is a big jump even if we stuck to the plan, from 5 to 9 miles in one week, which I find really surprising, as I thought the general advice was to increase by 10% each week. I'm similar to you, am doing a race the week after, so will get good mileage in, but not 9 miles of running, then the following week it is 10 miles.

Going to be a tough few weeks, but maybe its character building.

Will see what advice you get with interest.

D3PO

muddypaws wrote: »

There is a big jump even if we stuck to the plan, from 5 to 9 miles in one week, which I find really surprising, as I thought the general advice was to increase by 10% each week. I'm similar to you, am doing a race the week after, so will get good mileage in, but not 9 miles of running, then the following week it is 10 miles.

Going to be a tough few weeks, but maybe its character building.

Will see what advice you get with interest.

i queried the same last week as my plan jumped from 6 mile last week to 10 miles this week for LSR. It was eXplained to me that last week was called a step back week to give my body a chance to recover and its perfectly normal to see these kind of jumps.

so whilst not an expert im just repeating what I was told earlier in this thread

joeKel73

In case anyone is training and hasn't actually registered for the DCM yet - just a heads up that it looks likely to sell out today or tomorrow!

drkpower

Week 1

Mon: 3.7m @8.04
Tue: 4.6m @ 8.13 (with strides)
Weds: 3.8m @ 8.31
Thu: 3.8m @ 8.08m
Fri: Rest (and Pints)
Sat: Rest
Sun: LSR 1 - 7.6m @ 8.47

Week 2

Mon: 4.7m @ 8.30
Tue: 3.7m @ 8.26 (with strides)
Weds: 3.8m @ 8.25
Thu: 3.8m @ 8.18m
Fri: 3.8m @ 8.36m
Sat: LSR 2 - 10.5m @ 8.44
Sun: Rest

Challenge of the first two weeks was slowing the pace; trying to get it into 9.00 per mile territory so still a work in progress. Midweek runs are mainly home from work so i am inevitably against the clock to let childminder go, which doesn't help with pace discipline.

Finding the number of runs, the mileage and the LSRs ok so far. Got a bit of twinge in left knee on this week's LSR which is unusual for me but only a tiny niggle which was gone before run was over.

AuldManKing

clickerquicklic wrote: »

This week I want to get a 10k specific session in before Fingal .
The options -
3* 2 mile @10k pace (hate this sessionI know its murder and I've failed it before) I could increase rest and get it done probably.
6*1 mile @10k pace (seems easier)
5*2k @10k pace

None of them are that appealing !
What will give me the best bang for my buck? I was thinking of setting the rest at half the length of the interval .

The best bang for buck workout - it doesn't exist.
Its all about knowing what you are weak on - is it speed or endurance?
For 1 person, doing a 3m tempo might be best - for another, its a set of 800m reps.

These sessions are normally worked up to as a progression over a few weeks.
Have you done a progression to these workouts?

AuldManKing

brownbinman wrote: »

You're very much correct!! I think I added a little more as I'm doing the Fingal 10km the week after, so there would be a jump from 11km on week 2, to 16km on week 5

any advice on this would be very much appreciated

I wasn't involved in the make up of the plan, but I'll give my 2cents.

(1) For the fingal 10k - I'd say you would need to do a warm up and cool down - this additional mileage could bring the total up to 12-14k.

(2) Its difficult to manage the 10% rule when starting from a low base - sometimes we need to manage weekly mileage totals and make larger leaps in the LSR - you'll note that the following week is also a step back week. So it seems that it is managed.

clickerquicklic

AuldManKing wrote: »

The best bang for buck workout - it doesn't exist.
Its all about knowing what you are weak on - is it speed or endurance?
For 1 person, doing a 3m tempo might be best - for another, its a set of 800m reps.

These sessions are normally worked up to as a progression over a few weeks.
Have you done a progression to these workouts?

I'm weak on endurance, I haven't built up to these, had an attempt at 3*2 miles couple of weeks ago and only managed one rep. I regularly do 12*400's with a group on Thursday's that's about he extent of my interval training a weekly set of 12*400's.

I should probably keep with my marathon plan which I have down as
Tuesday 3k warm up and cool down and 8k at Planned marathon pace
Thursday 12*400 with group
Saturday long run
Sunday recovery run

I was just thinking I could probably make better use of that Tuesday session and make it a 10k specific session. (But as you can see I'm a complete novice and useless at sticking with plans!)

Damo 2k9

After what was a good start getting up at 6:30 and going running turned into only 2 days running. Got really bad sunburn after my second run while at the pool, then the feet got it aswell so could barely put on runners, never mind run 3m in them.

All back to normal now, recruited one of the lads I met to come with this morning, might push my LSR to today and then easy runs rest of the week. At least all the swimming has covered my cross training haha!

AuldManKing

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I'm weak on endurance, I haven't built up to these, had an attempt at 3*2 miles couple of weeks ago and only managed one rep. I regularly do 12*400's with a group on Thursday's that's about he extent of my interval training a weekly set of 12*400's.

I should probably keep with my marathon plan which I have down as
Tuesday 3k warm up and cool down and 8k at Planned marathon pace
Thursday 12*400 with group
Saturday long run
Sunday recovery run

I was just thinking I could probably make better use of that Tuesday session and make it a 10k specific session. (But as you can see I'm a complete novice and useless at sticking with plans!)

If you are weak at endurance then that's a problem as you have to run 26.2m in October

12x400's aren't going to help you with endurance, and doing them every week will mean that at some point they stop being effective as your body has adapted - but I know that there might be an attraction as its with a group - but still - ask yourself - what do you want to achieve??

Whatever you choose to do be sensible - no one workout will make the 10k 'easier' or 'better' - its about the many consistent sessions over time.

Pick a session, don't quit on it - modify it on the go if needed.

If you want to do something and aren't following the plan here - then do 5x5mins at a hard pace (between 10k and HMP) with a 3 min recovery.

If you are following a plan - stick to the plan

Spirogyra

I'm 'away' for a week in early September, and won't be able to do much,it shouldn't make much difference should it?

clickerquicklic

Thanks AMK

When I say I'm weak on endurance it's probably more appropriate to say "speed endurance " I'm fairy sure I could run 26.2 miles today if I had to but it would it at 5:30 pace rather than 4:30, to me 26.2 miles at 5:30 seems like an easier session than 3* 2 miles @ 4:00 pace !

Good point on the 12*400's I think they are ineffective now , I might mix it up and do a solo 6-8*800 instead .

Thanks

aine_fainne

Wow, great to log in and have loads of pages to catch up on!! Well done everyone on their training reports  Had a bit of a crazy week myself and didn't get as much running done as I would have liked to, but I'm tyring to think of it as a step-back week after the build up to the HM.
Mon = Rest
Tues = Gym + 4 miles easy at 10:59/mile
Wed = 5 miles easy at 11:06/mile
Thurs = Rest
Fri = 11 mile lsr at 11:06/mile
Sat/Sun = Rest
Found my quads, IT band and hamstrings were all really sore on Tues/Wed after the Clontarf HM the previous weekend. Really had to push myself to get out the door on wed and complete my run. I went to the gym on Thurs morning, but there was no way I could do the workout that was programmed (O/H Squats :O) so I just warmed up and spent the hour stretching, foam rolling and attacking my legs with the spiky ball roller and felt so much better for it!!
I had my friend's hen party on Saturday so I fitted my long run in on Friday evening after work. I actually thought this worked out well, as I'm generally quite tired and not up for much after my lsr's in general, so it was nice to refuel, have a shower, get some dinner, chill for a while and then head to bed. Might try it out again sometime so that I will have more time on Sat or Sun to be productive. Would have liked to fit in a recovery run on Sat but just didn't have time, and I wasn't able for anything yesterday after a late night out (thanks to Coldplay I spent an hour and half trying to just get a taxi home from town :(). I'm literally itching now to finish up in work for the day and head home to throw my gear on and get out the door for a nice run!!

This week I am aiming to complete week 4 of the Boards plan, with another bit of juggling to be done to work around the same friend's wedding this Friday. My plan is to leave the 15 mile lsr until Sunday, unless people think it's a better idea to fit it in on Friday morning? Wedding is nearby and ceremony isn't until 3 pm.

AuldManKing

Spirogyra wrote: »

I'm 'away' for a week in early September, and won't be able to do much,it shouldn't make much difference should it?

Any chance you can do a bit? - even a few miles every other day??

quickbeam

Shhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone, but I've signed up

skyblue46

quickbeam wrote: »

Shhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone, but I've signed up

Yay!!!! Shout it from the rooftops!!!!!!!

nedsgarden

Week 2

Tues 3.5 mile
Thurs 7 mile
Sat 10.8 mile

Bit of walking and cycling in between, looks like i will have to fit in a Weds run like most and the HHN1 plan, will do this week.

Like alot of the novices i cannot get myself to differentiate between the midweek and the LSR, it seems i have only one gear, will have to adapt my LSR's.
Slight niggle in right hip, hoping to run it away, been there for a while.

My higher LSR is due to two half marathons coming up.

Enjoying everyone's input and assistance from our mentors.

thanks

muddypaws

quickbeam wrote: »

Shhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone, but I've signed up

Woohoo well done, that's brilliant.


My backballer arrived today, looking forward to a session later on.

Younganne

nedsgarden wrote: »

Week 2

Tues 3.5 mile
Thurs 7 mile
Sat 10.8 mile

Bit of walking and cycling in between, looks like i will have to fit in a Weds run like most and the HHN1 plan, will do this week.

Like alot of the novices i cannot get myself to differentiate between the midweek and the LSR, it seems i have only one gear, will have to adapt my LSR's.
Slight niggle in right hip, hoping to run it away, been there for a while.

My higher LSR is due to two half marathons coming up.

Enjoying everyone's input and assistance from our mentors.

thanks

For first marathons a lot of runners only have one gear, don't worry about it, but when you reach your pace on the LSR, consciously slow down even more. It can be difficult at first but stick with it and it will be second nature in no time.

Re the hip, don't ignore a niggle that's been there for a while, it will only get worse, especially the hip(speaking from experience here ). Most hip issues need to be rubbed out as the muscles are in deep and cant be reached with a foam roller. See if you can get a sport massage, you may only need 1 to get problem sorted.

Spirogyra

AuldManKing wrote: »

Any chance you can do a bit? - even a few miles every other day??

Of course I can do ' a bit'

OOnegative

Younganne wrote: »

For first marathons a lot of runners only have one gear, don't worry about it, but when you reach your pace on the LSR, consciously slow down even more. It can be difficult at first but stick with it and it will be second nature in no time.

Re the hip, don't ignore a niggle that's been there for a while, it will only get worse, especially the hip(speaking from experience here ). Most hip issues need to be rubbed out as the muscles are in deep and cant be reached with a foam roller. See if you can get a sport massage, you may only need 1 to get problem sorted.

+1 to Anne's advice, you won't run away a hip injury. You will end up like I have with a torn labrum in your hip forever more as I like you tried running it off. Go see a physio ASAP if you can to get it looked at.

Singer

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks AMK
When I say I'm weak on endurance it's probably more appropriate to say "speed endurance " I'm fairy sure I could run 26.2 miles today if I had to but it would it at 5:30 pace rather than 4:30, to me 26.2 miles at 5:30 seems like an easier session than 3* 2 miles @ 4:00 pace !

Maybe try doing that session at 4:05 pace? I think completing it a little slower than you'd like could give you a good 10k specific workout, and then hope that the race experience on the day gives you the extra few seconds. I'm going to give it a go myself over the next week, we can compare notes

clickerquicklic

Singer wrote: »

Maybe try doing that session at 4:05 pace? I think completing it a little slower than you'd like could give you a good 10k specific workout, and then hope that the race experience on the day gives you the extra few seconds. I'm going to give it a go myself over the next week, we can compare notes

Cheers Singer that's not a bad idea , best of luck at your attempt be interested to see how you get on.

skyblue46

Just wondering should the 5 miles before the hills on Wednesday be easy or at PMP?

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just wondering should the 5 miles before the hills on Wednesday be easy or at PMP?

Easy, the hills will be enough of a workout without stressing the body with PMP miles beforehand.

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

Easy, the hills will be enough of a workout without stressing the body with PMP miles beforehand.

Thanks. I just wasn't sure if all the runs coloured in purple on the spreadsheet were MP.

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Thanks. I just wasn't sure if all the runs coloured in purple on the spreadsheet were MP.

My interpretation of it would be easy miles before the hills, but WW may have different ideas. Maybe best for him to clarify when's he's around before heeding my advice.

Lazare

I definitely read it as PMP.

Kmagic

Question about swapping weeks around. Im on week 9 of HHN1 this week with a step back LSR of 10 miles, and week 10 has a 15 mile LSR. However, due to work commitments it would be much easier if i did the 15 this week and use next week as a step back. Any problems with this?