DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

brownbinman

physio appointment made for tomorrow morning. fingers crossed

aoboa

ariana` wrote: »

Sorry now if i'm getting annoying but i just checked McMillan calculators again and unless i'm doing something wrong, it's giving me easy pace in a range that includes PMP

So i choose 4:10:00 as a target time (for now) and it gave me

PMP 9:30

Training paces:
Recovery 10:16 - 11:02
Easy 9:10 - 10:09
LSR 9:12 - 10:31

So even taking the slower end of the Easy range, it's still only 39 seconds per mile slower than PMP and at the faster end it's significantly faster than PMP

https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/
Jack Daniels paces are better/more realistic:
Easy 10:19 - 10:57

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

That was a great session.

+1

Though I am a bit nervous how the legs will react to the sprints! Really enjoyable bit of work to be fair.

Halloween Jack

brownbinman wrote: »

physio appointment made for tomorrow morning. fingers crossed

Best of luck mate

sillymoo

sillymoo wrote: »

Hey everyone! I'm really enjoying reading everyone's posts and the advice given. My running hasn't been going great, was in Singapore on holidays at the start of the plan and I missed one long run and a few shorter runs, I did some 3 mile runs but the heat and humidity was intense and I was beat. I am back at it now thank goodness and all was going ok until today....

I had a 8 mile run planned for today but had to stop at 7.8 miles due to stomach issues and intense feeling of need to defecate (sorry if tmi)... this has happened previously a few weeks ago on a short easy run but it didn't happen again so I put it down to a once off.

I had porridge about 2 hours before and felt fine until about mile 6 - then stomach started acting up.

Any thoughts? I know somebody else was talking about stomach cramps earlier in the thread also. I guess I'm a little worried that this will get worse and worse and I don't want it to hold me back

Ok my plan for tomorrow is to run on an empty stomach and bring some raisins to eat if stomach starts acting up. Plan to do 4m easy run.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

I'm a little nervous about being caught out

ariana`

sillymoo wrote: »

Ok my plan for tomorrow is to run on an empty stomach and bring some raisins to eat if stomach starts acting up. Plan to do 4m easy run.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

I'm a little nervous about being caught out

Hope you will be fine especially as it's easy pace.

I do my mid-week runs between 7 & 9pm and i eat something small at about 4pm.

I do my LSR at 7am on an empty stomach (just a glass of water before i leave the house) and so far it's been fine but the longest i've done is 10.5 miles. I find i haven't needed water for that distance yet either but i do carry a small bottle just in case.

Best of luck.

My 3 babies have been pucking the past 3 nights and while i've been burying my head in the sand all day i think i'm getting it too. I've been so looking forward to tonight's session that i'm still hoping this will pass in the next few hours :rolleyes:

positron

sillymoo, my morning runs are always on empty and I find it easy that way. Even with that, I have to drink some water or something and use the loo before heading out . It's only natural that running triggers that response in us, having 'empty everything' does the trick for me.

Kmagic

sillymoo wrote:

Ok my plan for tomorrow is to run on an empty stomach and bring some raisins to eat if stomach starts acting up. Plan to do 4m easy run.

I've read and been told that food is no necessary until you've be out for over 90 minutes, but that you fuel before 90 so that its in your system when you go over 90. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will add more detail.

heebusjeebus

For my LSR's the last few weeks, I have a small bowl of porridge, cup of coffee and a pint of water 1 hour before I run.
Haven't felt the need for water even for the 10 mile run that took me 1 hour 40 mins.

Not sure what I'll do for longer runs, may try and bring a small water bottle with me and some jelly babies.

Spirogyra

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

If you're talking about DCM....

After you've run a fantastic marathon follow the crowds around Merrion Square, and pick up your bag on the opposite side of the square (South) to where you finished. It's not too bad at all; in fact it took me longer to put my gear on afterwards than actually getting the bag :pac:

I'm staying in Ballsbridge, is that far from the start-finish area? could leave my bag in the hotel if it was close? (They have refused me a shower afterwards although I will cope).

The Muppet

ariana` wrote: »

The Muppet wrote: »

Not an expert but I think the 2 x hm time plus 20 minutes is a good formula to work off for your first marathon, with your hm time of 2 10 that would give you a pmp at 10.40 pace to finish in 4.40. (I'm in miles)

The caveat being depending on how conservative that HM time is (only you know that) you could possible aim for a quicker time , a 4.30 marathon is run at 10.20 pace, you could tray that on some of the paced training runs and see how it feels and take things from there.

Just on this how tough should we be finding the PMP runs at this early stage when they are still relatively short? 5m last week i was chatting comfortably throughout. That was @ 5:39 min/km which is a bit faster than it should have been. But i'm thinking PMP should be comfortable to be sustainable for 4+ hrs?

You will have a good idea youself if the pace is sustainable as the training progresses. I wouldn't get too caught up in pmp at the moment you will get a better idea of where that should be as your training progresses especially if you are doing the longer races in the race series.


Pmp is planned marathon pace and plans can be changed. For now if I were you I would continue to train for 4.30 and see how you feel nearer the day . In fact that's exactly what I did last year . Trained for 4.30 and went out with the 4.40 pacers on the day after my 2.10 half and considering how I felt after the longer runs @10.20 pace.

Battery Kinzie

Got my session done this morning anyway, just had some water and one weetabix before I went cause I was starving the minute I woke up!

Plan was

8 minutes @ steady (~5min/km)
8 minutes @ MP (~4.40min/km)
8 minutes @ HMP (~4.20min/km)
8 minutes @ 10k(~4.00min/km)


With a warm up and warm down. It looked easy enough on paper but it was anything but. I think I underestimated how tough the lack of rest between each block would be, it was just straight into the next, faster, pace.

Actual avg paces were 4:58, 4:39, 4:18 and 4:10. I struggled with the last one, I only really got the pace to around 4 min/km for the last half of the block.

Ah well, I felt I was a lot more 'off' my paces than it turned out I was, so happy to see the first three were about on target. All I could think during the last one was that Meno must've been some sadist.

sillymoo

Thanks for the advice guys. Hopefully all will be well!

clickerquicklic

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Got my session done this morning anyway, just had some water and one weetabix before I went cause I was starving the minute I woke up!

Plan was

8 minutes @ steady (~5min/km)
8 minutes @ MP (~4.40min/km)
8 minutes @ HMP (~4.20min/km)
8 minutes @ 10k(~4.00min/km)


With a warm up and warm down. It looked easy enough on paper but it was anything but. I think I underestimated how tough the lack of rest between each block would be, it was just straight into the next, faster, pace.

Actual avg paces were 4:58, 4:39, 4:18 and 4:10. I struggled with the last one, I only really got the pace to around 4 min/km for the last half of the block.

Ah well, I felt I was a lot more 'off' my paces than it turned out I was, so happy to see the first three were about on target. All I could think during the last one was that Meno must've been some sadist.

Well done on that session , think I'll try that session after Fingal. How are you getting on with that Meno plan? I looked at it but was put off by the mileage just couldn't ever see myself running more than 60k a week and I think that goes up to nearly 100k !

choons

Yevon wrote: »

I have a silly question...

The link to the Boards Plan on page 1 of this thread, where do I get the 2017 Boards Plan? I can only see options for 2016...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103520642&postcount=153

This has been asked a few times so I'm going to go ahead and try to fix the one in the op!

choons

choons wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103520642&postcount=153

This has been asked a few times so I'm going to go ahead and try to fix the one in the op!

Done - I hid a few sheets that looked like they were not being used (they are not deleted). Apologies if I've stepped on anyone's toes!

Battery Kinzie

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Well done on that session , think I'll try that session after Fingal. How are you getting on with that Meno plan? I looked at it but was put off by the mileage just couldn't ever see myself running more than 60k a week and I think that goes up to nearly 100k !

Yeah it's enjoyable so far, though it has only been a week and a half so far. The midweek sessions all look interesting, but some of them look very challenging so we'll have to see how they go. There are also some very tough looking long runs in there, such as an 18mile run that alternates 2miles @ easy and 2miles @ MP.

But I do like the way it only has a Wednesday session (and Thursday recovery) and a Sunday long run set in stone, and then you can fill it out the rest of the week yourself. The mileage does go quite high, but I think I'll probably be on the lower end of the weekly mileage scale (so the highest week is an 80-96k range so I reckon I'll be at most 80k for that week). I like to think that I know enough about myself at this stage to know when to step off it a bit and when to adjust the plan or an individual session if needed.

Are you following a plan yourself?

kin9pin

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Got my session done this morning anyway, just had some water and one weetabix before I went cause I was starving the minute I woke up!

Plan was

8 minutes @ steady (~5min/km)
8 minutes @ MP (~4.40min/km)
8 minutes @ HMP (~4.20min/km)
8 minutes @ 10k(~4.00min/km)


With a warm up and warm down. It looked easy enough on paper but it was anything but. I think I underestimated how tough the lack of rest between each block would be, it was just straight into the next, faster, pace.

Actual avg paces were 4:58, 4:39, 4:18 and 4:10. I struggled with the last one, I only really got the pace to around 4 min/km for the last half of the block.

Ah well, I felt I was a lot more 'off' my paces than it turned out I was, so happy to see the first three were about on target. All I could think during the last one was that Meno must've been some sadist.

Yeah well done, some great pace there. Did that session myself tonight and found the last split tough.

scotindublin

How did those of you who had hill sprints in the plan find then? I always found these the toughest to judge last year!

BrownEyes79

sillymoo wrote: »

Ok my plan for tomorrow is to run on an empty stomach and bring some raisins to eat if stomach starts acting up. Plan to do 4m easy run.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

I'm a little nervous about being caught out

I think stomach problems is not abnormal for some runners, it's something to do with blood flow to the stomach as the runs get longer and muscles need more blood flow ( or something like that!!!!). As your body gets use to the runs it should ease off. If you google it you might get some more info on it. Hope you were ok tonight!

clickerquicklic

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Yeah it's enjoyable so far, though it has only been a week and a half so far. The midweek sessions all look interesting, but some of them look very challenging so we'll have to see how they go. There are also some very tough looking long runs in there, such as an 18mile run that alternates 2miles @ easy and 2miles @ MP.

But I do like the way it only has a Wednesday session (and Thursday recovery) and a Sunday long run set in stone, and then you can fill it out the rest of the week yourself. The mileage does go quite high, but I think I'll probably be on the lower end of the weekly mileage scale (so the highest week is an 80-96k range so I reckon I'll be at most 80k for that week). I like to think that I know enough about myself at this stage to know when to step off it a bit and when to adjust the plan or an individual session if needed.

Are you following a plan yourself?

I've played around with plans but find life gets in the way so I have to rearrange , what I am using is the boards plan as a template and keeping the long run the same and the weekly mileage the same , it tops out at 66km the week of the longest run 32km , I think that is manageable.

Each week my aim is to get some runs at faster than marathon pace , slower than marathon pace and at marathon pace ,I also need to get a long run in so they are my priorities and I build around that.

So each Tuesday will be a session that is tough and faster than PMP - my plan for this session is to build up my speed endurance holding a faster pace for longer , so i'll be trying stuff like 3*3miles at half marathon pace/ 2*5miles at half marathon pace / 6* 1 miles @10k - half marathon pace.

Wednesday I can run to work to bring up mileage its 15k i'll be doing this very easy like today 5.30 pace or more depending on how late I am for work.

Thursday I was doing 12*400's but with the Tuesday session I'll probably drop this or do an easy 5k and catch the last couple of 400's with the group to get the legs ticking over.

Saturday is my long run which will incorporate the Parkrun, I'll jog to Parkrun and run the parkrun as either a tempo or at PMP pace depending on how hard Tuesdays session was then jog home extending the route to match the LSR distance goal.

That's my basic plan.

clickerquicklic

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

I think stomach problems is not abnormal for some runners, it's something to do with blood flow to the stomach as the runs get longer and muscles need more blood flow ( or something like that!!!!). As your body gets use to the runs it should ease off. If you google it you might get some more info on it. Hope you were ok tonight!

I can't run after eating , I need to leave about 4/5 hours otherwise i'll cramp bad , I can go straight out the door and cycle for hours on a full stomach at high intensity so I'm guessing its something to do with the bouncing effect from running.
I try to run first thing in the morning , I just eat more the night before have a big bowl of porridge about midnight then eat nothing in the morning that will be my plan for the marathon , I've been experimenting with the gels on long runs and they have seem to be causing me no problems taking one every 30 mins.

quickbeam

On FB they announced that they've sold out. Reply from certain user:

Will there be more places available, was there no warning about it filling up

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

AuldManKing

aoboa wrote: »

https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/
Jack Daniels paces are better/more realistic:
Easy 10:19 - 10:57

wouldn't agree with that.

Daniels paces are 'different' not better - each calculator uses a different algorithm.

Personally I find Daniels paces to be very aggressive.

Sheep1978

seen plenty on twitter having a little moan at them last night about extra places. Been plenty of notice and updates the last few weeks

ariana`

The Muppet wrote: »

You will have a good idea youself if the pace is sustainable as the training progresses. I wouldn't get too caught up in pmp at the moment you will get a better idea of where that should be as your training progresses especially if you are doing the longer races in the race series.


Pmp is planned marathon pace and plans can be changed. For now if I were you I would continue to train for 4.30 and see how you feel nearer the day . In fact that's exactly what I did last year . Trained for 4.30 and went out with the 4.40 pacers on the day after my 2.10 half and considering how I felt after the longer runs @10.20 pace.

Thanks. Do you mind me asking how you got on with the 4.40 pacers? Did you stick with them to the end?

AuldManKing wrote: »

wouldn't agree with that.

Daniels paces are 'different' not better - each calculator uses a different algorithm.

Personally I find Daniels paces to be very aggressive.

Gosh now i'm confused :pac: :pac: Daniel's is giving me a slower 'easy' pace range than McMillan so i will stick with that range for now and see how i go.

I do have a fear that if everything is too slow i won't reach potential but also have a few that if things are too fast i will get injured/blow-up and end up a DNS or a DNF.

The 2nd fear is greater so for now i will err on the side of conservative training paces in so far as i can hold myself back :rolleyes:

Sillymoo hope you were ok on your run?

Battery Kinzie that session sounds savage :eek: I like that we have all levels on here.

I didn't do last night's session. 3 pukey kids and feeling close to pukey myself , hopefully this evening :cool:

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

I don't think i'm really going to know what PMP should be until i race 10m at the end of Aug. In the meantime is it better to over-guesstimate or under-guesstimate?

I would love to run a sub-4hr marathon, which would be a MP of 5:38min/km (based on running 42.6km).

But that is probably over-ambitious so i was going with 5:50 towards a 4:09:xx marathon and maybe a more realistic first marathon time for me. I was basing that on believing i have a 1:55:00 HM in me, and using the formula (2 x HM) + 20. I wouldn't feel as sure of having a 1:50:00 HM in me bit i won't know for a couple of months yet.

Do you think i should work off a PMP of 5:38 now until the 10m/HM races and then adjust if needs be?

I suppose there's a big part of me that is just so petrified of over-cooking and ending up DNF. I want to finish it first and foremost

I will review the easy paces again as well based on the 45-60 second rule.

Thanks.

ariana` wrote: »

Hi henrietta, you sound like me a bit to be honest :pac: As you can see from my post above i'm also confused about PMP. My only HM was also in Galway last Oct and i ran it very conservatively as i didn't know what to expect and was afraid of blowing up. I aimed for 2:09:xx and finished in 2:09:xx with very even splits. I was delighted with that but really wish now i had ran a Spring HM a little less conservatively to see what i'm capable of :rolleyes:

Have you considered following the Boards plan?

I'll be interested to hear the experts replies to you but don't worry you are definitely not alone

I'd agree with The Muppet - don't get too hung up at this stage with PMP.

Its early in the process to be nailing your colours to the mast - what you think your PMP is today will be different in 6 weeks time as your fitness improves.

It is very easy to go into a spiral of overthinking everything - running is meant to be a simple sport.

As you are doing the 'shorter' 5m MP runs quite comfortably, this bodes well - but remember that you've another 21.2 miles to do.

Quite a lot of plans (like the one I'm following) tell you to run at a MP that is lower than your goal for the 1st part of the plan as you are adjusting to the mileage etc.

I'd keep it going as you are for now as your training is going quite well.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks. Do you mind me asking how you got on with the 4.40 pacers? Did you stick with them to the end?



Gosh now i'm confused :pac: :pac: Daniel's is giving me a slower 'easy' pace range than McMillan so i will stick with that range for now and see how i go.

I do have a fear that if everything is too slow i won't reach potential but also have a few that if things are too fast i will get injured/blow-up and end up a DNS or a DNF.

The 2nd fear is greater so for now i will err on the side of conservative training paces in so far as i can hold myself back :rolleyes:

Sillymoo hope you were ok on your run?

Battery Kinzie that session sounds savage :eek: I like that we have all levels on here.

I didn't do last night's session. 3 pukey kids and feeling close to pukey myself , hopefully this evening :cool:

His Tempo paces are very aggressive - I should have been more specific.

Your overthinking arent you

ariana`

AuldManKing wrote: »

His Tempo paces are very aggressive - I should have been more specific.

Your overthinking arent you

Oh you said it there, it's the story of my life AMK. My poor hubby, it's constant when it comes to the kids and are we doing the right/wrong thing, always over-thinking, is carrot really the best first food or would broccoli be better :pac::pac::pac::pac:

It's one of the things i love about my weekly yoga class, i find it takes real concentration so my brain switches off everything else

But I'm going to try to take a chill pill now i promise! I'm really enjoying the plan so far and think it's going to benefit me in many ways, more than i probably realise right now. And i'm very grateful to you and all the other experts for giving your time and sharing your knowledge with us

Halloween Jack

A lot of talk of paces, personally in training slow, probably a good bit slower than the slow bounds for the time I want to finish in (3:59).

Couple of reasons, firstly I'm tall, large and inflexible, which means I pick up injuries like john terry picks up teammates wives, and it's more important for me to get to the start line at all than the time I get around in.

Secondly, I trained at similar paces (though a LOT less volume) for a half last year, aiming for 1:59 and went round in 1:52, so while I'm aware the full is a bigger deal etc, I don't see the need to push the paces in training as I feel if I'm healthy on the day I should be capable of a big effort. That said I probably expect the paces to come up a bit naturally during the plan.