DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

ariana`

normanoffside wrote: »

LSRs should be ran at more or less the same pace as easy runs. By definition 'easy' means you can run the same pace for much longer.
I doubt you are running your LSRs too slow, more likely you are running your easy runs too fast.

I'd say this could be the case for a few of us!

Lazare

Singer wrote: »

I think running your long runs on empty as you're increasing the distance of your long runs is a premature optimisation. I regard running long runs on empty as a reasonably advanced technique to optimise one part of the benefits of long runs. It's more important that your long runs are generally run with good form and without your pace dropping off, and this is difficult enough as you're increasing the distance further than you've ever run before. Once you're used to the distance it could be worth trying out running on empty (or throwing in some MP miles, or finishing fast...).

Also, unless you're planning to run the marathon on empty, you need race specific practice running long distances while eating gels/Lucozade Sport/jelly babies/etc.

Yeah the bolded makes tons of sense actually.

Have earmarked the next couple for fuelling practice.

positron

I had couple of weeks of almost no running, I am trying to get back on the track again. I haven't been able to stay consistent with any plan so far, skipping weeks, moving days around etc, I hope to stick to the plan a bit more from August.

Monday - 10k, 5:51/km (nearly 10 minute per mile)
Tuesday - work dictated rest.
Wednesday - 5k, 5:49/km
Thursday - skipped run again
Friday - 5k, 5:16/km
Saturday - 12k, 6:11/km (Includes a Parkrun @ 26 minutes)

I didn't get to do my Sunday early morning long bike ride today either (usually around 100k). I might make up for it tomorrow. I would place myself somewhere around Week 4/5 of HHN1 plan although my runs have no resemblance of anything in the actual plan. With the work+commute issues, I am focusing more on total kms ran per week and at least one decent LSR. Fingers crossed I don't crash and burn on the north-side of the river / first half of DCM.

RasTa

Just looking at my what I was doing on this day last year and it was 13.1 miles at 8.20 p/m.

Today it's going for a steak dinner. Not running it this year as it almost killed me in 2016.

Good luck and happy training to all doing it this year, this thread was invaluable for getting to the starting line.

Lazare

RasTa wrote: »

Just looking at my what I was doing on this day last year and it was 13.1 miles at 8.20 p/m.

Today it's going for a steak dinner. Not running it this year as it almost killed me in 2016.

Good luck and happy training to all doing it this year, this thread was invaluable for getting to the starting line.

Hey Rasta, long time, good to see you.

Enjoy that steak bro.

ariana`

Lazare wrote: »

Yeah the bolded makes tons of sense actually.

Have earmarked the next couple for fuelling practice.

I do the LSR on empty purely for practical reasons as I get up & out the door asap... but I hit 2hr 20 min this wk and it's probably time for some fuel. I know it's trial and error and we're all different but what are people thinking of trying?

heebusjeebus

This is my first update, but I'm on week 3 of the Boards Plan.

My week:
Had to change things around this week as I was away for a few days on holidays. Ran Monday & Tues, then 3 days break until the 13 mile LSR on Saturday.

Monday - 5.6km @ 4:58: Felt great and had loads of energy even though I didnt have a rest day after the week 2 LSR of 11 miles on the previous saturday.

Tuesday - 8km PMP with hill sprints. Couldnt work out my pace here as I forgot to stop strava before I did the hill sprints but it was definately a faster pace than monday. The hill sprints were fine too. I felt my recovery was decent and I enjoyed bombing up the hill each time.

Wednesday - Holidays (with 12 mile city walk) and wine!

Thursday - Holidays and more wine!

Friday - Holidays and NO wine but not home till very late.

Saturday: 21.7km LSR @ 5:48: Woke up at 8 after only a few hours of sleep. The first 15km of the LSR was fine, even with the crazy humidity. Just the one bleeding nipple this time My feet felt heavy for the last few km but I felt I still had great power in my legs.

Sunday - Going to do a 4k easy run later this evening.

I've only missed 1 run in the first 3 weeks of the plan and I feel I've got a great store of energy in my legs.
I'm tempted to give it a good go at the Fingal 10k. My previous time there was just over 50 mins so I'll try and top that by a few minutes if I can.

dos29

First post since joining the gang, but have been reading and benefitting from everyone else's input, so thanks to all.
I'm in the middle east for most of the run up to the big day, so balancing the running with increasing temperatures. Most of my longer stuff will be early morning from here.
Finished week 9 of my 24 week mash up between HHN2 and HHI1 today. Started the transition 3 weeks ago across the 2 plans, while keeping LSR's at or slightly above what I'd already gotten to. HHI1 puts a MP run the day before LSR, but through various reasons, my first 2 LSR's had to hold off til the Monday, giving me an accidental rest day in between. Gave me a false sense of ability I think, cos I was able to push out the last 2-3 miles of each.
Got to do it properly this weekend though, today was a stepback 10 miles and boy I felt them! Very tired legs from 4 miles in. Thanks to this thread and reading material linked to on it though, I was able to put a positive twist on this. It's a stepback week for a reason, legs should be depleted at this stage, that's why stepback is built in. The reason HH gives for putting a MP run the day before LSR is to slow you down, and make ya run on tired legs, and it sure did this! I was actually able to kind of relish it a bit, knowing that if I can make my legs keep going when they're that tired, I've a chance of doing it in the further stages of the marathon. The more practice of that the better! Started thinking "bring on the tired, hard miles and aching legs!", (The aching knees are another matter.....).
Didn't look at the watch the whole way(didn't want to be chasing a time when I was feeling so tired) and just ran at what I felt was a slow pace, and ended up with an average pace of 9.35. Quicker then I had been doing my LSR's, so should prob keep an eye on the watch in future and force myself slightly slower if needed. Had been doing 10's recently.
I've attached my plan, if anyone has any pointers I'd be glad to hear. The 3m interval I'm doing on Tuesdays is a 1/2m lap, slow, med, slow, fast, slow, fast.
I'm seeing a lot of referencing to strides, and I get the rough idea, but cant find a full explanation anywhere of what these entail. Are they sprinting for the full 100m with build up and down either side, or is it all within the 100m?

Lazare

dos29 wrote: »

.
I'm seeing a lot of referencing to strides, and I get the rough idea, but cant find a full explanation anywhere of what these entail. Are they sprinting for the full 100m with build up and down either side, or is it all within the 100m?

Pick a flat path and start a slow jog for 10 seconds then into a sprint for 15 seconds before slowing back to a jog for 10 seconds. Concentrate on posture, form and breathing for the sprint, head up, shoulders back.

I love strides, they feel so good.

Wubble Wubble

Welcome to the thread dos29! From reading your paces, I'm guessing you're aiming for a time of 3:45 or thereabouts? I'd try keep an eye on the watch if you can (speaking as someone with a lot of pacing issues!) especially when running in such high temperatures; I can barely walk in such heat, let alone run.

Very tired legs from 4 miles in.

Quicker then I had been doing my LSR's,

So there you have it...the answer lies therein. Try slowing down a bit for the next one and let us know you get on. Thanks for signing up, best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

Week 4

Another week along our journey, and already some fantastic progress is being made. I'm pretty sure I read a quote of "only 5 miles this morning" a few pages back Not long now before it's "only 16 miles" :pac: Sounds crazy at the moment, but give me time

For those of you on the Boards plan, it's a sharp increase in the early weeks, but then levels off around midway. Therefore, it's only natural for you to feel like it's a big deal running 13M LSRs in week 3. At the same time, you're getting them done, and by and large getting the hang of the pacing. As I mentioned the other evening, don't get hung up too much on PMP now; your target time shouldn't be set in stone, and can go down as well as up

This coming week brings with it the start of the Race Series proper, in the form of the Fingal 10k.

It's a very good race, with a deceptive finish and some nice little drags to test you. I'm confident however that we'll see plenty of PBs in this one If nothing else, it should give you a better idea of your race capability. Irrespective of your standard, there will be lots of other runners to help push you along, so you are guaranteed to have a few targets in those closing metres

With this in mind, for the coming week we have two sets of plans as follows:

Race

HHN1: Rest + 3m easy + 4m easy + 3m easy + rest + rest + Fingal 10k
Boards: Rest + 3m easy + (1m w/u, 4m pace, 1m c/d) + 3m rec + rest + 3m easy + Fingal 10k

Note that the pace element of the session steps back from 5m to 4m.

No Race

HHN1: Replace Saturday & Sunday above with 9m LSR + cross
Boards: Replace Saturday & Sunday above with 13m LSR + 3m rec

As ever, listen to your bodies. Other things that will be particularly important in race week are hydration and sleep. Try to keep well hydrated and rested during the week; whether racing or not, you'll feel the benefits at the weekend

Good luck!

leesider77

Week 3 - a bit of a disaster all round but got my miles in ( just about!)

Monday - 3.1 miles on a threadmill.(10.2 pace). Nearly killed me dragging myself out of bed after 4 hrs sleep ( also it was 4am in the morning in Ireland)

Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday - long work days, lots of vino and very little sleep.

Friday - 3.1 miles @ 10.4 in 35degree heat.

Saturday - arrived home early morning so no fit state for usual LSR time.

Sunday - 9 miles @ 11.1 min pace.
Decided to try and run some of the marathon route in Phoenix park but keep getting lost. Is there any good app that can direct you as you run?

I fitted in all my miles this week but in 3 runs and it was tough - I realize that I won't be able to do this as the mileage increases. So made a pact with myself that if I want to make it to end October in one piece that I will have to be more sensible. With that in mind and since my body is very tired I'm going to take it easy in the 10km next week. I'm going to use it for race experience only.

Didn't get a chance to catch up this week with everything yet and I must admit I missed it as it helps focus me. Hope everyone is doing ok?

leesider77

quickbeam wrote: »

the Fingal 10K on Sunday. I'm super-excited about it, as it'll be my first ever race, my first goodie bag, my first chipped time. I was looking at last year's results, and based on the times ran then, I'll be lucky to be in the top 95% of runners, but my goal, like my goal for all the races in the series, is just to finish it. Being my first runs ever, each distance will be a PB regardless of how slow I am, so finishing in a healthy condition is all I'm really looking for.

I'll be bringing up the rear with you quickbeam. Someone has to do it I suppose ;-)

leesider77

sillymoo wrote: »

Run went ok today - stomach behaved, thanks for all the advice! Just have a massive blood filled blister to content with now! Onwards and upwards

Sillymoo - I've been there and understand how distressing it is. Walking a mile home with your butt clenched trying to avoid an accident is torture. For this reason I tend to do runs less than 2 hrs on an empty stomach. I would avoid any tea/coffee before your run unless you have time before the run for it to work it's magic. Keep a food diary and also include the food from day before - I found a particular nutty omega-3 brown bread was to blame in my situation. Saying that it's still an issue for me sometimes so I always have an emergency point picked out on my routes - helps me feel less stressed about it on my runs.

Damo 2k9

Travelled through the night, arrived in Gatwick today at 10am and was supposed to leave at half 2, delayed again for an hour, going out for dinner at 6 so LSR is gonna be a late one tonight!! Missed last week's so not missing it again.

Agree with Leesider, reading everyone else's progress really helps with your own training I feel, great to see everyone doing so well!

muddypaws

I have a race on Saturday, and had considered doing the 9mile lsr early in the week to fit it in but realise that's probably the wrong thing to do so will act as though I'm doing the Fingal 10k. My race is a day earlier so am getting the feeling that I should move the week's runs forward a day, to have 2 rest days beforehand?

Spirogyra

17 miles today...slight calf strain, have had since Friday, the run was comfortable enough, stomach and bowels not great afterwards though, they rarely are....

RolandDeschain

Weekly report:

Tough week work wise this week. Lots of long hours and my nutrition went out the window as a result but stuck on top of my training (mostly!)

Monday: gym session -squats, core work and Kettlebells
Tuesday: 4 mile easy run @ 9.10 p/m
Wednesday: gym session- benching, core work and some bits and bobs
Thursday: boards session - 4m pace (8.20) , hill sprints × 5 and 1m cool down
Friday: rest and travel home
Saturday: 6m easy @ 9.30
Sunday: Long slow run. 13 miles @ 9.45

Overall been a great week running and starting to see my fitness increase already.

Work will be hard core again this week but can't wait for the Fingal 10k. Let's be having ya!

RolandDeschain

sillymoo wrote: »

Run went ok today - stomach behaved, thanks for all the advice! Just have a massive blood filled blister to content with now! Onwards and upwards

Hi Silvermoo, good to hear you're next run went well. From all the replies, you can see that this is common enough and it has happened to me before too. Very unpleasant especially as it was during a race ( a quick run into the bushes was required!).

But it's all a process and we are learning what affects our bodies and hopefully will help in the end for the big day.

muddypaws

quickbeam wrote: »

Monday - LSR - 14.16km @ 7:47: actually felt okay, felt very proud to have reached one-third of a marathon, and with the spaces running out fast, I saw it as a sign and signed up that morning. Tried fuel on my run for the first time - raisins (I've already mentioned I don't want to use processed stuff for fuel and remain relatively healthy). I'm not sure I actually needed the fuel, and it was sort of hard to consume too, as it was hard to breath and chew at the same time. But it was more an experiment about how I'd actually feel on them, and I didn't get a stitch or anything, which was my biggest fear, so it could be considered a success.

I did a 10km back in May and they were giving out jelly sweets along the way, I took some towards the end of the run, to give me a boost to finish quicker, but I ended up spitting them out, I just couldn't swallow them, it was too much effort :P I bought some gels in Lidl last week, haven't tried them yet, after all the warnings on here, I want to try them when I'm near to home, or to my van, which happily has a toilet in it, and I also haven't done a long enough run since, maybe next week I'll give one a go and see what happens.

brownbinman

In a bit of a boggle and don't know what to do. I've shin splints at the minute, nothing serious and no pain anymore walking. I've been hitting the bike and pool to try and keep up fitness.

However, with the Fingal 10km on at the weekend I'm thinking of running it

Physio said to stay off the legs for 7-10 days and have appointment on the Monday with her.

Unsure whether to run the Fingal or not

quickbeam

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

HHN1: Rest + 3m easy + 4m easy + 3m easy + rest + rest + Fingal 10k

Does "rest" mean actually resting, or can it involve cross training, eg, walking? Especially for the Saturday, the day before the race? I'm volunteering at Parkrun instead of running it, but wondering if a 5km round trip walk would be off the cards?

BrownEyes79

muddypaws wrote: »

I did a 10km back in May and they were giving out jelly sweets along the way, I took some towards the end of the run, to give me a boost to finish quicker, but I ended up spitting them out, I just couldn't swallow them, it was too much effort :P I bought some gels in Lidl last week, haven't tried them yet, after all the warnings on here, I want to try them when I'm near to home, or to my van, which happily has a toilet in it, and I also haven't done a long enough run since, maybe next week I'll give one a go and see what happens.

Hey Muddypaws,
just wondering what gels you got in Lidl? Do they always have them or was it the high 5 marathon box that the had on sale last year. I've been keeping my eye out for them but haven't seen them in our Lidl yet!!

muddypaws

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Hey Muddypaws,
just wondering what gels you got in Lidl? Do they always have them or was it the high 5 marathon box that the had on sale last year. I've been keeping my eye out for them but haven't seen them in our Lidl yet!!

High 5 box of summer fruits, 20 in the box. They also had powder to make drinks up, but I thought I'd give the gels a go. I think that Ballina Lidl do always have them in stock, but probably get more in nearer to the marathon. I don't know if they would be so on the ball that they would keep an eye on local events, and stock them accordingly? Ballina AC have a running festival on at the moment to tie in with the Salmon festival, and there is a local triathlon at the end of the month.

Omeceron

Week 3. Could still feel Weds hills in the legs for the first 2 miles of the LSR. Relaxed into after that. Had some water at 6 and 9 miles. Had a gel at 6 miles and for the first time it didn't sit too well in the stomach. The last mile was tough but did feel I could have done more if I needed to.

My LSRs include a lot of miles in woods and my watch really struggles. It gives me paces of 11:30 and slower when I know I'm going faster. But seeing these paces leads to me going faster. Garmin says total avg pace was 10:52, Strava says 10:23. It was probably somewhere in between. I need to find more open routes.

Day | Run | Pace
Mon | Rest |
Tue | 4.20 Miles Easy | 10:43
Wed | 5 Miles Pace 5*10 secs Hill | 10:54
Thu | 4.15 Miles Recovery| 10:51
Fri | Rest |
Sat | 13.1 Miles LSR | 10:52
Sun | 3.1 Miles Recovery | 10:39
Traveling with work this week so can't run on Thurs. Will either run Mon, Tue & Wed or Tue, Wed & Fri depending on how I feel tomorrow evening.

BrownEyes79

muddypaws wrote: »

High 5 box of summer fruits, 20 in the box. They also had powder to make drinks up, but I thought I'd give the gels a go. I think that Ballina Lidl do always have them in stock, but probably get more in nearer to the marathon. I don't know if they would be so on the ball that they would keep an eye on local events, and stock them accordingly? Ballina AC have a running festival on at the moment to tie in with
the Salmon festival, and there is a local triathlon at the end of the month.

Thank you, I'll keep an eye out for them

BrownEyes79

Another week done!!

Monday: strength & conditioning video
Tuesday: 3 mile @ 9.40
Wednesday: 4.5 miles @ 9.25 + 5 x hill sprints + 1 mile c/d
Thursday: 4 miles @ 10.00
Friday: strength & conditioning + stretch video
Saturday: 13 mile LSR @ 10.49
Sunday: 30min on bike

Loved Wednesdays session, felt good afterwards.
LSR went well yesterday, had to keep checking my pace though! Started off a little to fast so slowed down, then was a little bit too slow, could feel my knees starting to get a bit sore and my shoulders in the last 2 miles. Managed to up my pace a little for the last mile.
I'm not doing the fingal 10k so I'll be doing another 13 miles next week!

Is it ok to go on the bike for a slow 30mins instead of the recovery run on Sundays?
Also is anyone taking glucosamine for their knees and if yes do they find it any good??

Dealerz

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Another week done!!

Monday: strength & conditioning video
Tuesday: 3 mile @ 9.40
Wednesday: 4.5 miles @ 9.25 + 5 x hill sprints + 1 mile c/d
Thursday: 4 miles @ 10.00
Friday: strength & conditioning + stretch video
Saturday: 13 mile LSR @ 10.49
Sunday: 30min on bike

Loved Wednesdays session, felt good afterwards.
LSR went well yesterday, had to keep checking my pace though! Started off a little to fast so slowed down, then was a little bit too slow, could feel my knees starting to get a bit sore and my shoulders in the last 2 miles. Managed to up my pace a little for the last mile.
I'm not doing the fingal 10k so I'll be doing another 13 miles next week!

Is it ok to go on the bike for a slow 30mins instead of the recovery run on Sundays?
Also is anyone taking glucosamine for their knees and if yes do they find it any good??

Hi-
Do you have a link for the strength and conditioning video or is it DVD?

Wubble Wubble

leesider77 wrote: »

Week 3 - a bit of a disaster all round but got my miles in ( just about!)

Monday - 3.1 miles on a threadmill.(10.2 pace). Nearly killed me dragging myself out of bed after 4 hrs sleep ( also it was 4am in the morning in Ireland)

Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday - long work days, lots of vino and very little sleep.

Friday - 3.1 miles @ 10.4 in 35degree heat.

Saturday - arrived home early morning so no fit state for usual LSR time.

Sunday - 9 miles @ 11.1 min pace.
Decided to try and run some of the marathon route in Phoenix park but keep getting lost. Is there any good app that can direct you as you run?

I fitted in all my miles this week but in 3 runs and it was tough - I realize that I won't be able to do this as the mileage increases. So made a pact with myself that if I want to make it to end October in one piece that I will have to be more sensible. With that in mind and since my body is very tired I'm going to take it easy in the 10km next week. I'm going to use it for race experience only.

Didn't get a chance to catch up this week with everything yet and I must admit I missed it as it helps focus me. Hope everyone is doing ok?

I wouldn't be overly upset about not hitting *everything* this week, especially with your being away.

Try not to go chasing lost miles! Say for example you miss a 4m easy run, don't try make it up adding on more miles to others, unless you feel particularly comfortable doing it.

Look after yourself next week, and no doubt you'll be able for a good strong 10k.

Wubble Wubble

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Travelled through the night, arrived in Gatwick today at 10am and was supposed to leave at half 2, delayed again for an hour, going out for dinner at 6 so LSR is gonna be a late one tonight!! Missed last week's so not missing it again.

Agree with Leesider, reading everyone else's progress really helps with your own training I feel, great to see everyone doing so well!

Serious dedication here, going somewhat beyond the call of duty at this early stage let us know how you get on!