DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Sheep1978

D3PO wrote: »

Give them out free on the course

ah right sorry, hadn't realised that:o

ariana`

D3PO wrote: »

some are different than others in texture. Some are like a jelly almost, others like youghurt.

re gels somebody who knows a lot more about me in marathon running (sub 3 hour runner) says he takes one at 4 miles and a further gel for every 4 miles up to mile 20 so 5 in total.

other stuff ive read on google says you have enough carbs to sustain 90 mins of effort so take the first one after about 75 mins of running which is a lot more than 4 miles.

what im getting is that there is no one exact answer. I personally will go with one every 4 miles. as for trying different brands i didnt before I did DCM in 2014 I just used the gels on offer on the day.

generally I use High 5 or SIS gels for cycling but they all seem to agree with me so im not pushed.

Thanks for that. I got landed in a HM last yr when they ran out of water and all other forms of fuel well before the 2 hr mark so based on that experience i will be carrying my own gels etc.

I will plan for every 4 miles from mile 6, roughly 6, 10, 14, 18 & 22. But i'll be testing the strategy at a later stage on a 20 miler so will know better then.

Wubble Wubble

beakerjoe wrote: »

Popped over here more for advice for motivation.

History, I completed my first and only Dublin Marathon in 2012. I was fairly fit back then, eat well and finished in 3:42. It really was great.

But since then Ive let things go.

I stopped football in dec 2016 and havent ran a race since with the exception of the odd park runs. In may I decided to get back in shape with the goal of the marathon in Oct.

Since then Ive conquered around 10 5ks (21 mins being my best time) and go for runs alone during the week of about 7k max so far.

Ive still got the belly and finding it hard to motivate myself during the week to go running. Ive signed up for the 10 mile in August.

My lack of motivation stems from my lack of time. I work 9-6 most nights with 3 hours on top of that commuting. When I get home Im tired and happily fall into the chair and spend time with the family who i miss while I am at work.

I guess I know the answers already, "just get off my hole" but even writing this has helped.

Weclome beakerjoe!

Judging by your 5k times, speed is certainly not the issue here. And actually that's a fine time for your first DCM.

How many times would you get out to run during the week? Busy schedule all right. Would getting out for a run before going to work suit at all? It means everything on the running front is taken care of for the day, and you'll feel even better when you fall into that chair

Based on what seems to be very low mileage at the moment, I'd say HHN1 might be better for you this time. Let us know what you decide. Best of luck!

Wubble Wubble

Baby75 wrote: »

I am one happy little runner tonight ran to night in a fundraiser for a local lady it was a great turnout and I got a PB for 5k ( 27.58 / 28 .02 ) minutes a bit of a conflict with Strava and my watch it was an 8K race and I ran it in 46.26. I was conscious that I had 3KM more to do when we hit the 5k mark so decided to slow down a little felt good and no pain anywhere all the stretching has paid off

I know that is probably slow in comparison to everyone else times for 5k but it's huge progress for me I am chuffed feels good to get out running again as well

Well done on this, particularly after coming back from injury niggles

This is one thing we bring up regularly though....don't compare yourself to others here, it's all about what you can do and making the best of your training, time management etc. Seems like it's going very well so far!

muddypaws

Baby75 wrote: »

I am one happy little runner tonight ran to night in a fundraiser for a local lady it was a great turnout and I got a PB for 5k ( 27.58 / 28 .02 ) minutes a bit of a conflict with Strava and my watch it was an 8K race and I ran it in 46.26. I was conscious that I had 3KM more to do when we hit the 5k mark so decided to slow down a little felt good and no pain anywhere all the stretching has paid off

I know that is probably slow in comparison to everyone else times for 5k but it's huge progress for me I am chuffed feels good to get out running again as well

Well done. I think I know the run you did, seems like a huge turnout, great to see communities come together like that. Running really does seem to be good for things like that, with all levels of fitness and abilities joining in.


Do we know what brand of gels they give out in the marathon, or do they do different ones? I'm doing okay with the High Five ones, but if it is a different brand on the day, I may try them and see how I do on them, save me carrying my own.

I know a few people like to drink chocolate milk after a run, but Lidl again - I'll be looking for sponsorship from them at this stage - I have bought their 'iced coffee' drinks, and they go down an absolute treat after a run, not sure how healthy they are, but no worse than chocolate milk I wouldn't have thought, and only 79c a bottle.

Wubble Wubble

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks for that. I got landed in a HM last yr when they ran out of water and all other forms of fuel well before the 2 hr mark so based on that experience i will be carrying my own gels etc.

I will plan for every 4 miles from mile 6, roughly 6, 10, 14, 18 & 22. But i'll be testing the strategy at a later stage on a 20 miler so will know better then.

Reading all these posts about gels reminds me that I'll have to go for a wander soon and pick up my own stash for the next few months :pac:

Last year I got a box of them in Lidl, which had a load of High 5 isogels and some sachets etc IIRC. Not sure what's on offer there this time. Of course, you may find that they don't suit you at all; either (a) you find the taste disgusting, or (b) they have no impact either way. Like I say, some folks here detest them entirely.

I used some on my longer LSRs last year, as well as in the marathon itself. However, even in DCM I didn't take any more than four. If they take your fancy, give them a try and see what works for you

brownbinman

went out last night to see how the legs were holding up, ended up doing a PB for 10km. Legs a bit sore but don't think they'll hold me back.

Wedding at weekend so aiming to do a 14km or so tomorrow before I hit the road to Mayo

Wubble Wubble

brownbinman wrote: »

went out last night to see how the legs were holding up, ended up doing a PB for 10km. Legs a bit sore but don't think they'll hold me back.

Wedding at weekend so aiming to do a 14km or so tomorrow before I hit the road to Mayo

Seem to be holding up just fine? Probably not a good idea to chase PBs in training runs....although maybe the training is just pulling everything along that bit quicker.

Funny I was going over this thread the other day and randomly wondering when your wedding season was getting under way :pac: Take it handy tomorrow, and enjoy the Western wedding

brownbinman

funnily enough it was only when I was on 9km that I noticed I was on for a PB so just kept my pace, was delighted as was just intending to get through it.

Thankfully not my wedding but someone else's, can't afford to go through that again! Going to bring some gear with me and fingers crossed I'll get a run in, even if it's just a 5km.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

So i'll be buying a golf ball to try to roll the glutes/hip as the foam roller isn't really cutting it obviously. Any other recommendations for this area

Generally feel great today after it, much looser and legs less heavy (it was a rest day as well which i'm sure helped). I'm looking forward to tonight's pace run now

Baby75 well done on the 5k pb

Thanks Ariana, I have a tennis ball which I tried to use, but I must have got it wrong stretching after a warm up has worked wonders I found videos on youtube to help give me more intensive stretches, that may help you as well

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Well done on this, particularly after coming back from injury niggles

This is one thing we bring up regularly though....don't compare yourself to others here, it's all about what you can do and making the best of your training, time management etc. Seems like it's going very well so far!

Thanks Wubble, you are right as well I will remember that I do have a quick question, I am following the Hal Hidgon plan and last night run was not easy pace and more than the planned 3miles as I am only over my niggle I decided to cross train today and running tomorrow as planned. but I planned to run 6miles so I cover the correct distance for the week is that ok.

I must admit I am a little nervous about the Planned 10mile LSR this weekend it feels like a big jump but I am a little excited as it will be the longest I have ever run as well!

Muddypaws thanks, it was for Laura, such a great event and what a great turnout as well it was heart lifting I was very proud of Carlow last night

Wubble Wubble

Baby75 wrote: »

Thanks Wubble, you are right as well I will remember that I do have a quick question, I am following the Hal Hidgon plan and last night run was not easy pace and more than the planned 3miles as I am only over my niggle I decided to cross train today and running tomorrow as planned. but I planned to run 6miles so I cover the correct distance for the week is that ok.

I must admit I am a little nervous about the Planned 10mile LSR this weekend it feels like a big jump but I am a little excited as it will be the longest I have ever run as well!

Muddypaws thanks, it was for Laura, such a great event and what a great turnout as well it was heart lifting I was very proud of Carlow last night

Sure, give it a go! Both plans offer plenty of scope in switching runs around to suit your personal circumstances. In relation to the 10 mile LSR, it may feel like a big jump now, but once you have it done, you'll wonder why you ever worried

muddypaws

Baby75 wrote: »

I must admit I am a little nervous about the Planned 10mile LSR this weekend it feels like a big jump but I am a little excited as it will be the longest I have ever run as well!

Muddypaws thanks, it was for Laura, such a great event and what a great turnout as well it was heart lifting I was very proud of Carlow last night

Me too, 9 miles is my longest run so far. I did my 5 mile run last night, am going to do a 3 mile easy today, probably very easy, then the 10 miler on Thursday evening, as I'm going to London on Friday for a wedding on Saturday. I did consider doing the 10 miler on Friday, around Phoenix Park, I'm dropping dogs into kennels at 9am, flight isn't until 3pm, but I figured it would put too much pressure on me, so if I get it out of the way tomorrow, it will be done and I can recover on Friday. I have worked out the nearest Park Run to my hotel in Surrey, so will get my 3 miles in on Saturday

clickerquicklic

Is the general opinion on the long run that it can't be too easy? I've seen some opinion online suggesting that the long run should build up to marathon pace miles for the second half of it , and that in general it should be run as a progression run that simulates the fatigue in the latter stages of a marathon.

I've a 24km long run planned for this weekend , I do question the benefit of running that 24km at say greater than say 5:45 pace when I am hoping for closer to 4:40 ish per km pace for marathon. The plan I am following doesn't stipulate a goal pace for the long run it just says easy.
Unfortunately this weekend I am running my long run with a mate who wants to do about 5:30 pace , but I would have done at least the last 10km of the long run at goal marathon pace (unless I received advice here to the contrary) had I been running alone. Am I making a mistake with this approach for future long runs? Thanks

Damo 2k9

About the high 5 gels in lidl, there's around 6-8 boxes left in Finglas branch for 9.99 for the box (18-24 I think?) I seen them yesterday. Citrus flavour

leesider77

When do we need to start practising gels? I've run a (very slow even by my standards) HM race before without them and was hoping to put off using them for a while more. I think I've mentioned it a few times that I have a dodgy tummy and I thought that getting some training miles under my belt was more important that potentially disrupting my runs with emergency toilet trips at this stage. Do you think leaving it until after the FD10M will be ok? Or should I try them under race conditions in the 10M?

heebusjeebus

leesider77 wrote: »

When do we need to start practising gels? I've run a (very slow even by my standards) HM race before without them and was hoping to put off using them for a while more. I think I've mentioned it a few times that I have a dodgy tummy and I thought that getting some training miles under my belt was more important that potentially disrupting my runs with emergency toilet trips at this stage. Do you think leaving it until after the FD10M will be ok? Or should I try them under race conditions in the 10M?

I'm going to try jelly babies this weekend for the 14 mile LSR.
Will have a handful after 15k or so and see how I get on.

Wubble Wubble

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Is the general opinion on the long run that it can't be too easy? I've seen some opinion online suggesting that the long run should build up to marathon pace miles for the second half of it , and that in general it should be run as a progression run that simulates the fatigue in the latter stages of a marathon.

I've a 24km long run planned for this weekend , I do question the benefit of running that 24km at say greater than say 5:45 pace when I am hoping for closer to 4:40 ish per km pace for marathon. The plan I am following doesn't stipulate a goal pace for the long run it just says easy.
Unfortunately this weekend I am running my long run with a mate who wants to do about 5:30 pace , but I would have done at least the last 10km of the long run at goal marathon pace (unless I received advice here to the contrary) had I been running alone. Am I making a mistake with this approach for future long runs? Thanks

I think this viewpoint generally relates more to experienced/multiple marathon runners, who in the main will have far more aggressive targets than your average novice. The Asics plan I'm on at the moment takes this view. I'm running a bit longer, and heading for my third marathon, so I looked for something a bit more aggressive than the Boards plan, which I followed last year.

For most marathon novices, HHN1 and Boards plans will be more than enough of a challenge, and of course a very worthwhile and enjoyable one

Wubble Wubble

leesider77 wrote: »

When do we need to start practising gels? I've run a (very slow even by my standards) HM race before without them and was hoping to put off using them for a while more. I think I've mentioned it a few times that I have a dodgy tummy and I thought that getting some training miles under my belt was more important that potentially disrupting my runs with emergency toilet trips at this stage. Do you think leaving it until after the FD10M will be ok? Or should I try them under race conditions in the 10M?

I never used them until we'd started going over the HM distance for LSRs, and wouldn't dream of taking them for a HM or any shorter race.

Especially if you have a dodgy tummy, I would practice them as soon as your LSRs start going over HM distance.

But if you want to try them in the 10 mile, definitely practice in advance of this. Don't use them for the first time on race day :eek:

clickerquicklic

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I think this viewpoint generally relates more to experienced/multiple marathon runners, who in the main will have far more aggressive targets than your average novice. The Asics plan I'm on at the moment takes this view. I'm running a bit longer, and heading for my third marathon, so I looked for something a bit more aggressive than the Boards plan, which I followed last year.

For most marathon novices, HHN1 and Boards plans will be more than enough of a challenge, and of course a very worthwhile and enjoyable one

Cheers Wubble , that certainly makes sense . I just had a look the asics plan (similar to my own made up plan of bits of other plans) I will try incorporate a few of them suggested long runs in my own plan , possibly every third week as I don't have the running experience or body adaptations that come with years running.

ariana`

leesider77 wrote: »

When do we need to start practising gels? I've run a (very slow even by my standards) HM race before without them and was hoping to put off using them for a while more. I think I've mentioned it a few times that I have a dodgy tummy and I thought that getting some training miles under my belt was more important that potentially disrupting my runs with emergency toilet trips at this stage. Do you think leaving it until after the FD10M will be ok? Or should I try them under race conditions in the 10M?

I tried one last weekend on a 14m LSR. I did HM without them as well but i was just eager to try, i'm impatient me I just took one at around 8m and it was fine so i will leave them now and won't be using them again until maybe 18m or 20m, i'll see how i'm getting on. I'd rather not become dependent on them.

The Davestator

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

I never used them until we'd started going over the HM distance for LSRs, and wouldn't dream of taking them for a HM or any shorter race.

Especially if you have a dodgy tummy, I would practice them as soon as your LSRs start going over HM distance.

But if you want to try them in the 10 mile, definitely practice in advance of this. Don't use for them for the first time on race day :eek:

This, but also to add - don't get caught up having to have them at X mile. My advice is to know exactly where the water stations are and plan around them.
As soon as you see the sign for a water station you are planning a gel, take it and then take some water from the station to wash it down.

You DO NOT want a semi warm gel stuck in your throat!

beakerjoe

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Weclome beakerjoe!

Judging by your 5k times, speed is certainly not the issue here. And actually that's a fine time for your first DCM.

How many times would you get out to run during the week? Busy schedule all right. Would getting out for a run before going to work suit at all? It means everything on the running front is taken care of for the day, and you'll feel even better when you fall into that chair

Based on what seems to be very low mileage at the moment, I'd say HHN1 might be better for you this time. Let us know what you decide. Best of luck!

Right now I get out once for the 5k park run and at least twice at lunch break during work (sometimes three times.). Usually 6-7km depending on which route I take and how much time I have.

I may start doing it early as youve suggested.

Wubble Wubble

beakerjoe wrote: »

Right now I get out once for the 5k park run and at least twice at lunch break during work (sometimes three times.). Usually 6-7km depending on which route I take and how much time I have.

I may start doing it early as youve suggested.

Of course running at lunch break is perfectly valid :pac:

beakerjoe

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Of course running at lunch break is perfectly valid :pac:

My problem with lunch breaks is that i wont be able to strech out the distance as I gain fitness. Them are the breaks I guess.

Thanks for the advice though.

drkpower

Jelly babies vs gels

I tried jelly babies for first time on 17m LSR at the weekend and they were great; helps that they taste 'normal' and im used to them already - im dreading using gels; i'm not good with clawing artificial tastes, and i have enough bothering me on a long run without adding to my woes.

If you can take what some dude on the internet (below) says as gospel (which of course you can) it seems that nutritionally there isnt a huge amount between a gel and about 6 jelly babies, so they might be interchangeable [other than having to pop them more often (which i think i would welcome psychologically, rather than waiting for my 'hit')]. The absence of caffeine might be a problem though - is there a starbucks on the marathon route....?

http://traildragon.co.uk/2011/08/jelly-babies/

I’ll admit that the main reason I’ve always taken Jelly Babies on races rather than gels is because I can’t stand the taste of gels – I personally think they taste rancid. But, out of curiosity and to see what I might be missing out on (gels are expensive so have to be good, right?), I peeked at the back of bag of Jelly Babies and read the nutrition label. Lo and behold, it turns out that 36g of Jelly Babies (about 6 pieces) contains 120kCal and 28g of carbohydrate and it’s primary ingredient is also glucose syrup. So 36g of Jelly Babies is comparable to a single 45g energy gel. But then things get a little more interesting; where 100g of energy gel has only trace amounts of protein, 100g of Jelly Babies contains 3.5g (presumably from the bovine gelatine – Jelly Babies aren’t suitable for vegetarians by the way).

beakerjoe

drkpower wrote: »

Jelly babies vs gels

I tried jelly babies for first time on 17m LSR at the weekend and they were great; helps that they taste 'normal' and im used to them already - im dreading using gels; i'm not good with clawing artificial tastes, and i have enough bothering me on a long run without adding to my woes.

If you can take what some dude on the internet (below) says as gospel (which of course you can) it seems that nutritionally there isnt a huge amount between a gel and about 6 jelly babies, so they might be interchangeable [other than having to pop them more often (which i think i would welcome psychologically, rather than waiting for my 'hit')]. The absence of caffeine might be a problem though - is there a starbucks on the marathon route....?

http://traildragon.co.uk/2011/08/jelly-babies/

I bought a pack of gels for my one and only marathon, the taste was fine, very sweet and easy to swollow when running. Id recommend them over babies as I nearly choked on them running during a 10 mile.

The Davestator

drkpower wrote: »

Jelly babies vs gels

I tried jelly babies for first time on 17m LSR at the weekend and they were great; helps that they taste 'normal' and im used to them already - im dreading using gels; i'm not good with clawing artificial tastes, and i have enough bothering me on a long run without adding to my woes.

If you can take what some dude on the internet (below) says as gospel (which of course you can) it seems that nutritionally there isnt a huge amount between a gel and about 6 jelly babies, so they might be interchangeable [other than having to pop them more often (which i think i would welcome psychologically, rather than waiting for my 'hit')]. The absence of caffeine might be a problem though - is there a starbucks on the marathon route....?

http://traildragon.co.uk/2011/08/jelly-babies/

You'll get offered loads of jellies as you pass Bushy park heading for Terenure. one of my favourite little sections of the course!

scotindublin

Just catching up on the thread looks like some great times at the Fingal 10k well done to you all!

Another reinforcement of following the plan.

ariana`

beakerjoe wrote: »

My problem with lunch breaks is that i wont be able to strech out the distance as I gain fitness. Them are the breaks I guess.

Thanks for the advice though.

Lunch break would be fine for the 2 easy runs, these max at 5m iirc (someone else might confirm). Then all you'd have a to fit in is 1 medium mid-week run and the LSR at the weekend. Some cross training a 5th day is advised but maybe you could include the family in this or even do it on a 3rd lunch-time?

It seems quite doable when you break it down but as previously advised it really depends on much you want to do and whether you are willing to settle for just getting around or if you want to be more aggressive with your goal.

skyblue46

muddypaws wrote: »

I know a few people like to drink chocolate milk after a run, but Lidl again - I'll be looking for sponsorship from them at this stage - I have bought their 'iced coffee' drinks, and they go down an absolute treat after a run, not sure how healthy they are, but no worse than chocolate milk I wouldn't have thought, and only 79c a bottle.

The main advantage of chocolate milk is that it is quite close to the 3:1 carbs:protein ratio that is considered to be the ideal recovery drink in the 30 minutes after strenuous exercise. If the iced coffee comes close then it too is ideal. If not then it is simply a tasty refreshment and won't impart the same recovery benefits. I use Avonmore. It's only slightly above 2:1 but I eat a banana to top the carbs up.