DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

clickerquicklic

RasTa wrote: »

What are you eating?

I've tried different foods and always felt more sluggish , on empty I feel much better. If the overwhelming advice is to eat (which it seems to be)I'll eat. I'll get up at 5am and have porridge and some toast.

I'll practice this routine in two weeks (not going to mess around at Frank Duffy) cheers lads for pointing this out .

scotindublin

It is vitally important that you get your pre race fuelling strategy nailed down and trialled before the big day itself.

As you say the marathon kicks off @ 0900 realistically you are going to be in town for around 0800 so even if you are Dublin based you will be up and awake a good 2 hours before the marathon itself. Throw in 4 hours to complete the race then a good 30 minutes to get through the finish chute etc then you are talking 1330 or there abouts before you are done.

One thing that surprised me after last year was that I had little or no appetite straight after the run!

My pre run breakfast was either porridge or toast with strawberry jam!

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.

The Muppet

harr wrote: »

If i can ask a quick question for a friend who is running her first marathon...currently up to 18 miles on the LSR this week and I think it was 15 last week..
She eats a couple of hours before the runs as she can't manage running on empty.
Anyway over the last 2-3 weeks she has been totally wrecked for a couple of days after lsr and by time she is starting to feel ok she has run mid week runs ...she is getting major stomach cramps right after the runs and they continue the full day...
she takes a zero tab after running.
Anyone have similar problems?

I think eating properly directly after the run is very important for recovery. Chocolate milk and a banana used to work for me , and the a proper meal an hour is so later. Eggs on toast was my staple If possible I believe peanut butter on a bagel or toast is also good .

I used a high 5 recovery drink a few times and always found them very good too, they certainly made a difference to my recovery.

skyblue46

Week 8 Boards Plan

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: 8.7k easy run

Wednesday: 1.6k w/u, 10k MP, 1.8k c/d

Thursday: 8.1k Recovery run

Friday: Morning 6k jog before work, evening 6.6k after work jog

Saturday: 5.1k slow jog

Sunday: 31k LSR

Week total 78.9k (49 miles)

Overall I am chuffed so far and this week in particular. Most miles ever in a week and longest single run ever too! I've been concentrating on keeping everything slow and easy to minimise the risk of injury and it seemed to pay off as I felt great on the LSR. Or maybe that was just the great morning in the Park that lifted the spirits at 6.30! I could easily have kept going for a few more miles. Did an 8 hour shift in work today too so maybe tomorrow's DOMS will knock the wind out of my sails.

Probably not ideal to have the long run 6 days before the FD10 but work dictated that. Still undecided about whether to race it or session it.

Going to try figure out more of the regulars here on Strava and just follow individuals. My activity feed is just filled with people who are far from novices, don't have a story unfolding on these pages and have nothing to say. I get great enjoyment from fellow novices reports on here, seeing where and how far they run on Strava, the highs and lows as well as following the mentors progress. If anyone wants to PM me their Strava names and save me some detective work that would be great.

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks Wubble , for some reason I absolutely hate running in Pheonix Park , just reading what it's going to be like is horrible.

Sacrilege!! Haha. I love the Park but I tend to keep away from the roads. Did 19 and a bit miles this morning, very early, and I only ran across a road 6 times. The early morning sun, dew on the grass, squirrels at every turn, the deer and fellow runners nodding their greetings....absolute heaven!!

AuldManKing

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.

My apologies - I didn't realise that it was due to stomach issues.

This advice is a bit generic to your needs, but take what you want from it:

Eating breakfast is important on the day of a marathon, but what and how you eat the 2-3 days before the marathon is much more important.

Eating a lot of smaller meals the day prior to a marathon is the way to go.
I ran a marathon last year and was stuffed that night as I ate too late, didn't sleep well and felt full the next morning.
Basically - dont do the pasta parties that you may hear about as you will feel too bloated.

If you have a stomach condition that causes you distress on race day, maybe you could find a carb drink that performs equally well, that you can take prior.

I also know a guy who ran a 2:48 marathon aged 50 who only ever has tea and toast before a marathon.

if you have ate and hydrated well prior to the race, all that you are doing on race morning is topping up the stores that have been used while you sleep.

Something small the next morning to help the blood sugars and top up the glycogen is all that is needed.
Be sure to find the right fit for you - and if that means no eating, then so be it.

AuldManKing

harr wrote: »

If i can ask a quick question for a friend who is running her first marathon...currently up to 18 miles on the LSR this week and I think it was 15 last week..
She eats a couple of hours before the runs as she can't manage running on empty.
Anyway over the last 2-3 weeks she has been totally wrecked for a couple of days after lsr and by time she is starting to feel ok she has run mid week runs ...she is getting major stomach cramps right after the runs and they continue the full day...
she takes a zero tab after running.
Anyone have similar problems?

If she is totally wrecked after long runs, it can be for a number of reasons;

Her long runs are too fast - slow down - our mantra this year.

(1) She is not fueling right before her long run - The 2 days before a long run are important fueling days. Carbs carbs carbs.

(2) She is not fueling right after the run. for each mile we utilise 120 calories ('ish) - so, we need to fill this calorie deficit.
We also need to refuel soon after a long run - within 20-30 mins with decent quality food.
Zero tabs help with salt replacement and some other micro nutrients, but would not offer any fueling.

For what its worth, I tend to suffer with my stomach after long runs, but it is normally down to the intensity that I run at - I know that I require 3-4 mugs of tea and about 2 hours before things start to settle down!!

Your friend needs to experiment a bit and make a diary for a few weeks until she finds the right combination that suits her.

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sacrilege!! Haha. I love the Park but I tend to keep away from the roads. Did 19 and a bit miles this morning, very early, and I only ran across a road 6 times. The early morning sun, dew on the grass, squirrels at every turn, the deer and fellow runners nodding their greetings....absolute heaven!!

agree, we are so lucky to have the PP - I never get bored running there.

skyblue46

AuldManKing wrote: »

My apologies - I didn't realise that it was due to stomach issues.

This advice is a bit generic to your needs, but take what you want from it:

Eating breakfast is important on the day of a marathon, but what and how you eat the 2-3 days before the marathon is much more important.

Eating a lot of smaller meals the day prior to a marathon is the way to go.
I ran a marathon last year and was stuffed that night as I ate too late, didn't sleep well and felt full the next morning.
Basically - dont do the paste partys that you may hear about as you will feel too bloated.

If you have a stomach condition that causes you distress on race day, maybe you could find a carb drink that performs equally well, that you can take prior.

I also know a guy who ran a 2:48 marathon aged 50 who only ever has tea and toast before a marathon.

if you have ate and hydrated well prior to the race, all that you are doing on race morning is topping up the stores that have been used while you sleep.

Something small the next morning to help the blood sugars and top up the glycogen is all that is needed.
Be sure to find the right fit for you - and if that means no eating, then so be it.

I'd agree that looking after your diet and hydration day to day is most important. Miles in the legs and following a good training plan are also essential. After that perhaps people worry too much. There are no magic gels that give superpowers, very little need for belts as there are feed and water stations on course.

At what point should gels, breakfast etc become an issue? To date I have done LSRs early morning without breakfast. I have not carried water or gel. Today for the first time I brought 8 wine gums...2 each after an hour, 90 mins, 2 hours and 2.5 hours. It has been a conscious decision to try to train my body to survive but when should I switch to taking any assistance available?

AuldManKing

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Thanks to AMK for the post about fighting the demons towards the end of an lsr a few pages back. I struggled with the 16 miles in week 13, kept doubting myself. Today I kept thinking of your post and it really helped me out

I'd love to say that it gets easier.................:D

Well done for toughing it out. Remember this and place it in the 'thought bank' for when things get tough.

heebusjeebus

Week 8 (Boards Plan)

Mon: Rest
Tues: 6.5k easy run (5:27/km)
Wed: 12.8km (8m) PMP (5:06/km)
Thurs: 6.6k easy run (5:24/km)
Fri: Rest
Sat: 27.4k (17m) LSR (6:01/km)
Sun: Lazy rest day

Week total 53.4k (33 miles)

No issues this week. Ran an extra mile in the LSR yesterday as I think the 3 mile step up to 19 miles in week 10 could be a shock to the system!
Plan on taking it easy on the FD next week (5:10/km is my goal) as I need to run the 19 miles only a few days later.
I'm going to Electric Picnic so plan on running the 19 miles on the Thursday morning.
Recovery run planned for the following Tuesday morning. Dreading it already

Baby75

Wubble Wubble great post on the FrankDuffy 10 mile Thanks so much

The FD 10mile will be a PB for me so I will take it handy and will just be glad to finish it but I want to run it well and finish strong

leesider77

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.

I've a dodgy tummy too and it's been trial and error to figure out what works. I have to eat at least 2 hrs before I run and have a coffee/ hot drink to get things 'moving'. The only thing that will not 'run' through me is a plain toasted bagel. Wish it could be porridge or something more substantial but at least it's something.

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'd agree that looking after your diet and hydration day to day is most important. Miles in the legs and following a good training plan are also essential. After that perhaps people worry too much. There are no magic gels that give superpowers, very little need for belts as there are feed and water stations on course.

At what point should gels, breakfast etc become an issue? To date I have done LSRs early morning without breakfast. I have not carried water or gel. Today for the first time I brought 8 wine gums...2 each after an hour, 90 mins, 2 hours and 2.5 hours. It has been a conscious decision to try to train my body to survive but when should I switch to taking any assistance available?

running on empty too much is not recommended as the quality of the runs suffer.

you've to train your body to both utilise fats but also to take gels.

heres some blurb: https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/marathon-long-runs-on-an-empty-stomach-or-fully-fueled/

leesider77

skyblue46 wrote: »

Week 8 Boards Plan

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: 8.7k easy run

Wednesday: 1.6k w/u, 10k MP, 1.8k c/d

Thursday: 8.1k Recovery run

Friday: Morning 6k jog before work, evening 6.6k after work jog

Saturday: 5.1k slow jog

Sunday: 31k LSR

Week total 78.9k (49 miles)

Overall I am chuffed so far and this week in particular. Most miles ever in a week and longest single run ever too! I've been concentrating on keeping everything slow and easy to minimise the risk of injury and it seemed to pay off as I felt great on the LSR. Or maybe that was just the great morning in the Park that lifted the spirits at 6.30! I could easily have kept going for a few more miles. Did an 8 hour shift in work today too so maybe tomorrow's DOMS will knock the wind out of my sails.

Probably not ideal to have the long run 6 days before the FD10 but work dictated that. Still undecided about whether to race it or session it.

Going to try figure out more of the regulars here on Strava and just follow individuals. My activity feed is just filled with people who are far from novices, don't have a story unfolding on these pages and have nothing to say. I get great enjoyment from fellow novices reports on here, seeing where and how far they run on Strava, the highs and lows as well as following the mentors progress. If anyone wants to PM me their Strava names and save me some detective work that would be great.

Great post! This is what I loved looking at previous years - getting the real feel for what it is like for a novice to attempt a marathon for the first time with all the highs and lows.

skyblue46

AuldManKing wrote: »

running on empty too much is not recommended as the quality of the runs suffer.

you've to train your body to both utilise fats but also to take gels.

heres some blurb: https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/marathon-long-runs-on-an-empty-stomach-or-fully-fueled/

That's useful information. I haven't had time for breakfast before long runs but l have had lots of carbs on the preceding days.

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sacrilege!! Haha. I love the Park but I tend to keep away from the roads. Did 19 and a bit miles this morning, very early, and I only ran across a road 6 times. The early morning sun, dew on the grass, squirrels at every turn, the deer and fellow runners nodding their greetings....absolute heaven!!

It's a smashing park to visit and I'm always there with the kids, it's more the races in there I dislike , did the great Ireland run this year and was cursing the hills.

drkpower

Week 8

Mon: 3.7m @ 8.48
Tue: 6m @ 8:00
Weds: 9.3m @ 8:15 (PMP run)
Thurs: 4.4m @ 9:03
Fri: Rest (and anniversary fancy lunch & piss-up)
Sat: Rest (and bad hangover)
Sun: LSR 8: 19.3m @ 8.50 [9.02 pace for first 12 miles, then 8.35 for last 7]

TOTAL: 43m

Another good week. Was feeling particularly energetic midweek so did two PMP (or better) runs mid week, while keeping the other runs and LSR at (broadly) LSR pace [8.55/9.00]

Really enjoyed LSR this week, was longest run thus far at 19.3m, though i had done almost 18m 2 weeks ago. Started slow and steady on a perfect morning for running; cool, mild breeze, sun poking through the clouds - so i went out to Howth and it was a grand run, comfortable enough. Stopped for water at Howth at about 10m and then turned for home. I usually listen to podcasts so i decided to try out some music for the second half as i cant see myself listening to nearly 4 hours of podcasts on the day itself. Couldn't believe the effect; felt energised and ran the second half a good bit faster than the first (mind you, whatever small breeze was there was more at my back now so that may have helped). That wasnt quite the plan but it felt right on the day. Didn't need to take a jelly baby, and managed a "sprint" for the last 500 meters or so. I'm toying with the idea of negative splitting the marathon (3:45/3:50 pace at the start, and then see if i can pick it up after that), so i was delighted that i was able to finish this LSR feeling as if i had a good bit more left in the tank. Few well deserved pints after to watch Mayo-Kerry!

Holiday weeks coming up at the end of next week so structure of the week and my plan will go off the rails - really looking forward to doing some long runs 'out foreign' though will have to get up at crack of dawn as i am a terrible hot weather runner.

brownbinman

Very much a good and bad week

Monday: Legs tired after the Rock and Roll. Train to Ennis was sore!
Tuesday: 5km Easy, more of a recovery run than anything
Wednesday: Traveling, walking and eating my way through Kerry
Thursday: 5km-ish run. Zero energy from last few days. Cut the run short
Friday: Travel back to Dublin
Saturday: 19km. Bro with me, wanted to do 23km but he had to stop. Felt strong overall
Sunday: Rest & hangover after a few drinks. Out late more than drink

Really feeling stronger and more confident on the longer runs. Never would have thought I'd run so much

ariana`

I just remembered that i found my arms and hands quite cold on my long run yesterday. I'm pretty sure I'd get too warm in long sleeves yet though. Anyone else find this? Maybe I am running too slow.

Baby75

Another week down, I really enjoyed my midweek runs this week and Sunday adventure race was great fun but it was max effort :eek: I am not exactly sure of what distance we ran in total I started my watch late and lots of running between each checkpoint to the next. I am glad I did it though I learned a few things!

Never change your breakfast!!! OOPS I suffer from a delicate tummy before races and it was a little worse because of that.
Water bring extra for the run ( one thing I did not like, it was a trail run and no water stops anywhere) they had said they would have water to refill our bottles but there was none! I felt a little sick and was very thirsty I managed but others were not so lucky more than a few were vomiting towards the end.
I was delighted to get back to my bike and get some water into me

Post-event I was delighted to have it finished and enjoyed the great fun I had with other competitors they were all so lovely and I think made the event great.I had thought I would do an easy 3miles on Sunday but nope legs needed the rest it actually took more out of me than the longest LSR I ran the week previous. I think I underestimated how much the bike can take out of you after a run but the pace felt fast.

On Nutrition, we ordered Tailwind which rehydrates and refuels you going to give it a go on the Frank Duffy 10mile which I am not racing.

http://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/category-16.html

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

I just remembered that i found my arms and hands quite cold on my long run yesterday. I'm pretty sure I'd get too warm in long sleeves yet though. Anyone else find this? Maybe I am running too slow.

I wore long sleeves and gloves yesterday morning!! :eek:

But I do have Raynauds Syndrome. So I'll be easily spotted at the FD as the only person wearing gloves in August!

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

I wore long sleeves and gloves yesterday morning!! :eek:

But I do have Raynauds Syndrome. So I'll be easily spotted at the FD as the only person wearing gloves in August!

I sometimes wonder if I have that, must mention it to my GP sometime. Last week my husband had the clever idea to eat dinner outdoors as there was some evening sun, by the end of dinner I had completely lost the feeling in the top half of 2 fingers and it was beginning to go in more of them. The fingers were the colour of death and the rest were very blue.... strange feeling that I could bite down on them and not feel a think. I will dust off the gloves I think!

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

I sometimes wonder if I have that, must mention it to my GP sometime. Last week my husband had the clever idea to eat dinner outdoors as there was some evening sun, by the end of dinner I had completely lost the feeling in the top half of 2 fingers and it was beginning to go in more of them. The fingers were the colour of death and the rest were very blue.... strange feeling that I could bite down on them and not feel a think. I will dust off the gloves I think!

That sounds very like Raynauds. Mine started with the tip of one finger from the last joint to the tip, one little white area, but now it's pretty much both hands and I often run on numb feet which believe me is a weird feeling!! There isn't any fix for it beyond keeping the extremities warm.

drkpower

Wave changes

FYI, i just spoke to the DCM office about wave changing:

1. On the day, you will be allowed to move down a wave (ie. to a slower one), no questions asked.
2. They are still taking requests to move up a wave ( office@dublinmarathon.ie ); however that will close off in about a week [the website said that wave changes would only be allowed up to 31 July)

Apparently they restrict moving up because they get loads of punters who want to start 'at the start' even if they plan to do a 6 hour marathon, which causes absolute chaos!; that's why they restrict 'up-waving' but have no problems allowing people to drop back. I am signed up to the sub 3.39 group which shows how much enthusiasm and energy i had about 3 months ago...... all the advice i have received since is - for a novice - is to go out very conservatively, and if you are feeling good at half way, up the pace then. Based on that plan, there is about zero chance of me starting in Wave 1!!

skyblue46

drkpower wrote: »

Wave changes

FYI, i just spoke to the DCM office about wave changing:

1. On the day, you will be allowed to move down a wave (ie. to a slower one), no questions asked.
2. They are still taking requests to move up a wave ( office@dublinmarathon.ie ); however that will close off in about a week [the website said that wave changes would only be allowed up to 31 July)

Apparently they restrict moving up because they get loads of punters who want to start 'at the start' even if they plan to do a 6 hour marathon, which causes absolute chaos!; that's why they restrict 'up-waving' but have no problems allowing people to drop back. I am signed up to the sub 3.39 group which shows how much enthusiasm and energy i had about 3 months ago...... all the advice i have received since is - for a novice - is to go out very conservatively, and if you are feeling good at half way, up the pace then. Based on that plan, there is about zero chance of me starting in Wave 1!!

Yeah I think it's something I will decide on the day. I was advised to get into wave 1 for a couple of reasons so I bluffed my expected finishing time to suit. Realistically I'm dreaming of 3:59:59! My reasons were a) less time hanging around at the start if the weather is bad b) I could plod along at my own pace in relative tranquility while all the faster runners belted ahead and c) when the best of wave 2 start catching and passing me I could use them as targets for a bit at a time.

Now though the idea of the 4hr pacer seems a more attractive if somewhat crowded and bustling option. I'll experiment with pacer during the half as I have never tried it before.

Spirogyra

Feeling 'not all that well' after my 20 miles yesterday. Stiff and actually stumbled into a delivery van , tearing my jacket off a ridge earlier... a bit better now after a meal, lot's of tofu, seeds and vitamin milk (hoping it really is good for me). Also still feel dehydrated. It was an unintentional 20 miler. Had aimed for 18 but I usually end up doing more than planned.

muddypaws

Spirogyra wrote: »

Feeling 'not all that well' after my 20 miles yesterday. Stiff and actually stumbled into a delivery van , tearing my jacket off a ridge earlier... a bit better now after a meal, lot's of tofu, seeds and vitamin milk (hoping it really is good for me). Also still feel dehydrated. It was an unintentional 20 miler. Had aimed for 18 but I usually end up doing more than planned.

I know that our bodies are going to struggle the days after the marathon, but maybe we haven't really considered that we will have done a lot of training by then, and so the long runs at the moment, even though they aren't full marathon length, are equivalent with the amount of training we've done so far - if that makes sense. Take it easy, eat and drink lots, and hopefully you'll recover within a few days.

I don't know what to do on the marathon weekend. I'll be travelling up from Sligo, dropping the dogs into a kennel in Kildare, on the Saturday morning, or more likely on the Friday. Should I pick the dogs back up on Sunday evening, drive home and then not have to worry about having to move around at all on the Monday, and just chill out for the day, scoffing my own bodyweight in snacks with some box sets, or stay in Dublin for the Sunday night, then pick the dogs up on the Monday and drive home? It usually takes about 3 hours from the kennels back to the house. Will I be much sorer on the Monday than on the Sunday I wonder? Will I be too tired on the Sunday evening for the long drive? Any advice would be appreciated. It would be nice to be able to go for a pint or two with my fellow boards travellers after the run, if I'm driving home obviously that won't happen, although not sure that alcohol will be the way to go anyway after the run, as one can of cider tends to knock me out these days.

positron

muddypaws wrote: »

I know that our bodies are going to struggle the days after the marathon, but maybe we haven't really considered that we will have done a lot of training by then, and so the long runs at the moment, even though they aren't full marathon length, are equivalent with the amount of training we've done so far - if that makes sense. Take it easy, eat and drink lots, and hopefully you'll recover within a few days.

I was thinking about this yesterday myself - I found it hard to sleep after LSR. LSR was not close to bed time, I felt wrecked and definitly wanted to sleep, but in bed I kept tossing and turning with aches all over. It's that very unsettling feeling that just doesn't go away you drink/eat or even sit down for a while - it's deep inside. I felt this way after cyling whole day as well - you just know something isn't right but can't figure out how to fix it. If half is this hard, what would it be like after a full?

But your comment makes a lot of sense - with a lot of running between now and end of October, feeling might be different. Here's hoping!

The Muppet

muddypaws wrote: »

I don't know what to do on the marathon weekend. I'll be travelling up from Sligo, dropping the dogs into a kennel in Kildare, on the Saturday morning, or more likely on the Friday. Should I pick the dogs back up on Sunday evening, drive home and then not have to worry about having to move around at all on the Monday, and just chill out for the day, scoffing my own bodyweight in snacks with some box sets, or stay in Dublin for the Sunday night, then pick the dogs up on the Monday and drive home? It usually takes about 3 hours from the kennels back to the house. Will I be much sorer on the Monday than on the Sunday I wonder? Will I be too tired on the Sunday evening for the long drive? Any advice would be appreciated. It would be nice to be able to go for a pint or two with my fellow boards travellers after the run, if I'm driving home obviously that won't happen, although not sure that alcohol will be the way to go anyway after the run, as one can of cider tends to knock me out these days.

Think I'd stay up on the Sunday, tiredness would be my concern rather than soreness, I was fine for driving the day after last year but we're all different.