DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Kellygirl

Lazare wrote: »

Ahh, so this is what cumulative fatigue is.

Need to walk backwards down stairs, didn't help parking in a multi story earlier and forgetting.

Time for an Epsom Salts Bath! I've bought the largest tub to keep me going.

Baby75

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Back from my LSR. 15 miles @ 9:17 mile/min average, most miles were around 9:30-9:40. Distance wasn't a problem and I wasn't out of breath through any of it really, felt like a really comfortable run fatigue wise.

As skyblue knows from Strava, my knee started giving out at mile 6, got sorer at mile 10 and even worse at mile 13. Still made it the full 15 and continued running too. Definitely have to get it checked out, was doubting the big day during the run tbh. Mad what some time to yourself can get your mind up to haha.

Even if I have to run 26.2 miles with a throbbing knee, that's what will be done. Will post up my weekly report tomorrow or so, just finished a nice fillet steak, which was well deserved in my books.

Get that knee checked and hope it is easily sorted hope your icing it now and get it up!

Baby75

Has everyone seen the medal for this year! I saw this on facebook

skyblue46

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Back from my LSR. 15 miles @ 9:17 mile/min average, most miles were around 9:30-9:40. Distance wasn't a problem and I wasn't out of breath through any of it really, felt like a really comfortable run fatigue wise.

As skyblue knows from Strava, my knee started giving out at mile 6, got sorer at mile 10 and even worse at mile 13. Still made it the full 15 and continued running too. Definitely have to get it checked out, was doubting the big day during the run tbh. Mad what some time to yourself can get your mind up to haha.

Even if I have to run 26.2 miles with a throbbing knee, that's what will be done. Will post up my weekly report tomorrow or so, just finished a nice fillet steak, which was well deserved in my books.

Damo be very careful about running on an injury. It's rarely the best thing to do. It could ruin all your preparation. Best get it looked at.m

Lazare

Kellygirl wrote: »

Time for an Epsom Salts Bath! I've bought the largest tub to keep me going.

My wife had a lovely surprise of one for me when I got home earlier. Was pretty amazing. May have another tomorrow.

quickbeam

Ah, that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask ... is there anyway to get the benefit of an Epsom bath but in a shower. I don't bath, you see.

skyblue46

quickbeam wrote: »

Ah, that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask ... is there anyway to get the benefit of an Epsom bath but in a shower. I don't bath, you see.

The most beneficial mineral in Epsom salts is magnesium. You cannot shower in it but you can buy a magnesium 'oil' spray to rub in after a shower. You can make your own using Epsom salts but I couldn't be bothered looking at YouTube videos to find out how! :rolleyes:

leesider77

quickbeam wrote: »

My week:

Monday - 2-3m easy - did 3.85km @ 7:12

Tuesday - 15m LSR - did 24.57km @ 8:13 broken down approx 20km ran @ 7:44 & 4.57km walked @ 10:12 - no need to go into it all again

Wednesday - 6.35km leisurely walk

Thursday - 4m easy - did 6.19km @ 7:05 - first run after Tuesday's failed LSR, so nervous. The first half felt tough as if I'd forgotten how to run. But second half felt marvelous and I remembered why I like this form of exercise and stomped it home.

Friday - 7m easy - did 11.39km @ 7:17 - enjoyable, relatively comfortable

Saturday - 3m easy - 4.98km Parkrun @ 6:13. Okay, a PB, don't shoot me, but delighted with the result. AMK, I see you're on the results, if I'd known I'd have said hi!

Sunday - plan to rest.

Total running - 46.41km


Next week, attempt a 16 mile LSR. Rather than one big loop from my house as I've previously done, I've amended the route to several smaller circuits - psychologically it feels less scary to be less far from home. And I'll need all the help I can get, I think. I've also bought a Hi5 gel to use on it, the first time trying any sort of energy device.

Question - if I fail to run the full distance is it better to finish the full distance even if walking it, or will I just cut my losses and leave off where I stop? This week's LSR I finished but only because I had to get myself home, it wasn't by design that I'd finished the full distance. But what is the advice in this scenario?

I've thought a good bit about this and I think if I gave myself an opt out then I'd always find an excuse not to finish the distance so imo unless you are injured it's better to finish the distance even if you need to walk.

Wubble Wubble

Week 11

Lots more great running from you again this week! Keep the updates coming in. Getting those long LSRs in the bag feels brilliant. In addition, a lot of you seem to have taken the advice on board regarding skipping easy days, rather than going out wrecked 2/3 days after racing.

I'd still be wary of trying to run through injuries. Especially over the next few weeks when the mileage plateaus, it's a high risk strategy which unfortunately doesn't often pay dividends. Bit of rest and recovery is always good :pac:

Slight increase in mileage for both plans next week. Boards has the first of its two 20 mile LSRs, but the Wednesday session is taken out.

HHN1: 4M easy + 8M easy + 4M easy + 16M LSR + cross
Boards: 4M easy + 8M easy + (4M easy with 5 x strides) + 20M LSR + 3M rec

Thanks as always to the guest contributors. Best of luck everyone!!

skyblue46

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Week 11

Lots more great running from you again this week! Keep the updates coming in. Getting those long LSRs in the bag feels brilliant. In addition, a lot of you seem to have taken the advice on board regarding skipping easy days, rather than going out wrecked 2/3 days after racing.

I'd still be wary of trying to run through injuries. Especially over the next few weeks when the mileage plateaus, it's a high risk strategy which unfortunately doesn't often pay dividends. Bit of rest and recovery is always good :pac:

Slight increase in mileage for both plans next week. Boards has the first of its two 20 mile LSRs, but the Wednesday session is taken out.

HHN1: 4M easy + 8M easy + 4M easy + 16M LSR + cross
Boards: 4M easy + 8M easy + (4M easy with 5 x strides) + 20M LSR + 3M rec

Thanks as always to the guest contributors. Best of luck everyone!!

Just a quick question re the boards plan. I seem to remember way back in the thread a reference to colour coding on the boards plan to indicate paces or types of runs. I thought all purple runs were PMP which would make Thursday's 4m and strides a PMP run?

Wubble Wubble

Well spotted young man, top of the class

That should actually be PMP as you point out. Try keep the strides towards the end if possible.

skyblue46

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Well spotted young man, top of the class

That should actually be PMP as you point out. Try keep the strides towards the end if possible.

It's nice when you say things like that to the oldie of the group! Full marks for that!

Baby75

LSR 15 mile is done and I am so glad it is over, but it was hard going the rain started which I did not mind but as we were going out so early we chose the Barrow Track all great till puddle hopping was becoming tedious and draining on the legs so gave up avoiding them, I was only delighted to see the track was closed which meant we ran on the road for a while so all good till we went back on it and the heavy rain started I was glad of the trees for shelter though. not sure how I will ever run longer :eek: It was really hard and Legs are feeling it. walking up stairs after wards was fun LOL but a nice Epson salt bath and food and I feel better. Got some blisters on my toes even with vaseline and won't mention the chafing from my sports bra :eek:

I tried out some tailwind today, hubby made it up last night so I found it had a bit of a taste off it, if made up fresh it does not it just taste like water, but I drank it anyway and it worked great I did not need anything else gave me a real boost around 18km mark

well done again to everyone else who ran your LSR

skyblue46

Just back from LSR in the Park. Lots of rain for the first hour or so and then it eased off. Took it nice and handy most of the way and then did the last 4 miles at PMP. All felt good, absolutely love running on the tracks. It was a bit muddy in places and a few puddles here and there but worth it for the tranquility and to see so many other headcases out doing the same thing!

Lazare

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just back from LSR in the Park. Lots of rain for the first hour or so and then it eased off. Took it nice and handy most of the way and then did the last 4 miles at PMP. All felt good, absolutely love running on the tracks. It was a bit muddy in places and a few puddles here and there but worth it for the tranquility and to see so many other headcases out doing the same thing!

Seriously impressed by that run, well done.

brownbinman

Week 10 Update

Monday - Rest. 16km on the sunday
Tuesday - 13 km - intervals of 6x1m with 1 mins interval
Wednesday - 4.65km run (very tough)
Thursday - Rest, shattered
Friday - Rest & Stretch
Saturday - Empty house we're selling
Sunday - 24km LSR. PB for half marathon. Felt strong up until 22km in, last 2km tough but delighted I broke that barrier

26km LSR next week

skyblue46

brownbinman wrote: »

Week 10 Update

Monday - Rest. 16km on the sunday
Tuesday - 13 km - intervals of 6x1m with 1 mins interval
Wednesday - 4.65km run (very tough)
Thursday - Rest, shattered
Friday - Rest & Stretch
Saturday - Empty house we're selling
Sunday - 24km LSR. PB for half marathon. Felt strong up until 22km in, last 2km tough but delighted I broke that barrier

26km LSR next week

I think you passed me on your run

brownbinman

skyblue46 wrote: »

I think you passed me on your run

*runs to check Strava*

RolandDeschain

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

How was your pace on the run?

I'd say try an abridged version, maybe 15 or 16 miles ?

Thanks for the advice WW. I am a terrible pupil though and just ended up doing the 19 miler today. I felt ok (as ok as one can feel in the circumstances) so just kept going after the 16m mark. Done some stretching and rolling and plan on taking it a bit easy tomorrow but hopefully nothing is amiss and I will get away with my stubbornness.

19 miles done and the first 20 miler next week. This s**t is starting to get real!

skyblue46

brownbinman wrote: »

*runs to check Strava*

You were part of a pair? You passed us at the back of the hospital I think. I was the auld geezer waiting on my S.O :pac:

brownbinman

skyblue46 wrote: »

You were part of a pair? You passed us at the back of the hospital I think. I was the auld geezer waiting on my S.O :pac:

AH!! Yeah that was us. I had only said to my cousin we saw ye two when we started off. Can put a face to the name now

muddypaws

Really busy week with non running stuff, so did my 3 miles on Tuesday, didn't get to do my 7 on Wednesday, so did the 4 mile on Thursday, then managed to fit the 7 mile in on Friday.

There was a full and half marathon on locally today so we did it as our 15 mile LSR. With that in mind yesterday should have been an easy day, but wasn't. Up at 6, and drove to Lough Key, got one of the dogs out training on the bike, and made him do most of the work, so didn't pedal much. Then walked Park Run, got some food and did another 3 mile dog walk! Was shattered by the time I got home, a good nights sleep didn't change that much.

We did a mile warm up then did the half marathon. I hadn't realised how hilly Enniscrone is. Of course we didn't have nice cooling rain, but horrible humid cloud cover. I walked more of it than I wanted to, but we did it with another mile cool down to get the 15 miles. Talking to people afterwards, everyone found it really tough, with the hills and the humidity. A local runner who is doing his 25th DCM next month said the hills made it a 15 miler without us doing the extra miles. Rumours of two women being taken to hospital, so delighted I finished it even if it wasn't fast or pretty. We went for a paddle in the sea afterwards, was lovely on the legs. Now in my PJs on the sofa with no intention of moving.

conor_mc

Kellygirl wrote: »

Well done to everybody on your runs this week. I'm very happy with mine and did 17.4 miles for my LSR today and very happy with pace and fuelling. I took High 5 gels every 45 mins.

I'm worried about nutrition though. I think it's what caused me problems in Cork and I don't think the gels were enough and hit the wall at 20 miles. An experienced marathon runner said to me today that if I use them all the time for training runs I'll more or less become immune to them and will just need more and more. Does anybody have an opinion on this? He thinks I should try do my training runs without them and will then getter a bigger boost on the day. I know they don't effect my stomach so don't have that worry.

He's partly right. Marathon training is about optimising the fat-burning system so that it provides a higher proportion of your energy needs during the marathon. If you feed on carbs/gels during LSR's then you're missing the fat-burning optimisation that comes with long slow running. By all means test out your gel of choice and do eat a breakfast before heading out on longer runs. If I'm struggling at the end of an LSR, I prefer to stop for a banana than take a gel but that's just me.

The bit I disagree with your friend about is the "boost" from gels. There is no magic sugar-rush boost! You've got about 2 hours glycogen in your system before you start a marathon, but it takes 20-30 mins to absorb and process a gel, longer if you're already bonking. In a marathon gels should be taken early enough, so you're topping up as you burn glycogen, not trying to top up with a boost when you're already out of gas!

ted1

Didn't get much running in this week.
290km on the bike commuting
7km in the pool during lunch

4.5 km Monday
8km Tuesday

10km Saturday ( sneaky Laps of the GAA grounds while the little one was training) 5.37 min/km

18.5km this morning, had a few glasses of wine in the in laws and left the car there last night so had a good excuse to go and collect it. 6.32 min/km


Is the marathon the last bit of hope for the imperial system ?

Thedogsgone

Had a very irritating experience this morning. Ran what I had route planned for 20 miles. Got home and the app I use to measure pace/distance etc had stopped working periodically during the run so had no idea how far id actually run. Turns out google maps tells me that I only did 17. Very frustrating. Wasnt a particularly good run, slow pace and nothing in the legs but took solace in the fact I was doing 20. Very annoyed but onwards and upwards. Need to find time in the next 2 weeks to actually do 20.

Ah well....whine over.

AuldManKing

Thedogsgone wrote: »

Had a very irritating experience this morning. Ran what I had route planned for 20 miles. Got home and the app I use to measure pace/distance etc had stopped working periodically during the run so had no idea how far id actually run. Turns out google maps tells me that I only did 17. Very frustrating. Wasnt a particularly good run, slow pace and nothing in the legs but took solace in the fact I was doing 20. Very annoyed but onwards and upwards. Need to find time in the next 2 weeks to actually do 20.

Ah well....whine over.

so did you do 17 or 20? How long were you running for?

Kellygirl

conor_mc wrote: »

He's partly right. Marathon training is about optimising the fat-burning system so that it provides a higher proportion of your energy needs during the marathon. If you feed on carbs/gels during LSR's then you're missing the fat-burning optimisation that comes with long slow running. By all means test out your gel of choice and do eat a breakfast before heading out on longer runs. If I'm struggling at the end of an LSR, I prefer to stop for a banana than take a gel but that's just me.

The bit I disagree with your friend about is the "boost" from gels. There is no magic sugar-rush boost! You've got about 2 hours glycogen in your system before you start a marathon, but it takes 20-30 mins to absorb and process a gel, longer if you're already bonking. In a marathon gels should be taken early enough, so you're topping up as you burn glycogen, not trying to top up with a boost when you're already out of gas!

Thanks for the reply. I think on my next LSR I'll hold off taking gels until about 2 hours in and see how I do.

I'm trying to figure out if I'll need something more substantial on the marathon day itself than gels. I think I'll be fine until about 3 hours but not sure after that. And what could I manage while running even if I did want to eat something more??

AuldManKing

Sorry Folks - been busy all weekend - GAA season is back in full swing

I see a lot of good runs happening and more importantly, a lot of consistent training.
No one run will help you get to the start line of DCM or help you complete DCM - its the consistency that you need and the ability (& the patience) to recover.

There's 2 good events coming up - the Race Series Half (23rd Sept) and the 3/4 Mara (8th Oct) - both offer good prep for DCM if done right.

The next few weeks are the most important part of the plan - mileage tops out, long runs get longer, People race the HM, people get nervous and do stupid training , people think they haven't enough done and train harder - - so take stock of where you are right now.

Write down your progress - where have you come from as a runner since starting this plan?
What are the small/big changes that you need to make in the coming few weeks BEFORE the taper.
What are the things that you NEED to do in the coming 3-4 long runs to better prep for DCM?

Feel free to share

Thedogsgone

AuldManKing wrote: »

so did you do 17 or 20? How long were you running for?

By Google maps it was 17. Im going to drive the route tomorrow night to make sure 🀣.

Ran for about 3 hrs 15 minutes. Very slow.

Gets into your head this marathon training.

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

Lsr done early, perfect running weather. I missed the target by 1km but it was my longest run so far. I miscalculated the route and couldn't bring myself to run past the car to get that extra 1km, I was just too fooked! So 29.5km in 3:03, not too much over the magic 3 hrs! Found the last 10km tough but I had the worst of the hills in that 10km and I was obviously tiring. My body was sore by the end, knees & hips were all giving out. But I was surprisingly ok once I got home, food, shower & stretch etc.

Glad to have it done and getting so close to the magic 20m now! Just a handful of LSRs left now, hard to believe

Super work - if you get to 1km of the DCM finish line, believe me the noise of the crowd will lift you up and transport you to the finish line.
3 hrs is a great milestone to have - take great confidence from that. Your body adapts to that distance/effort - great running.

Kellygirl wrote: »

Well done to everybody on your runs this week. I'm very happy with mine and did 17.4 miles for my LSR today and very happy with pace and fuelling. I took High 5 gels every 45 mins.

I'm worried about nutrition though. I think it's what caused me problems in Cork and I don't think the gels were enough and hit the wall at 20 miles. An experienced marathon runner said to me today that if I use them all the time for training runs I'll more or less become immune to them and will just need more and more. Does anybody have an opinion on this? He thinks I should try do my training runs without them and will then getter a bigger boost on the day. I know they don't effect my stomach so don't have that worry.

you say they dont impact your stomach, have you taken them while running at Marathon Pace?
I'd even advise taking one at the very end of a run - maybe the last 1m as this is where the biggest distress comes from - obviously you wont get the benefit of the additional fuel - but it does test the stomach when it is hurting the most.

Regarding the main point of your question, I would only take them if needed on a long run (once you are certain theres no distress) - your body becomes better at running on fats in training as has already been pointed out.

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Back from my LSR. 15 miles @ 9:17 mile/min average, most miles were around 9:30-9:40. Distance wasn't a problem and I wasn't out of breath through any of it really, felt like a really comfortable run fatigue wise.

As skyblue knows from Strava, my knee started giving out at mile 6, got sorer at mile 10 and even worse at mile 13. Still made it the full 15 and continued running too. Definitely have to get it checked out, was doubting the big day during the run tbh. Mad what some time to yourself can get your mind up to haha.

Even if I have to run 26.2 miles with a throbbing knee, that's what will be done. Will post up my weekly report tomorrow or so, just finished a nice fillet steak, which was well deserved in my books.

Watch that knee - ice after running.
Do calf raises during the week on stairs - build to 3x10 reps (google if uncertain how to do them)
Consider strapping the knee during a run.
Run on grass when you can.
Check your runners aren't worn out.