DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

clickerquicklic

jake1970 wrote: »

Last year I done a 20 mile race as a progression run finishing with the last 5 miles at PMP. There are many ways to run 3/4 but running it at MP is not the way.

FWIW I think that you are well capable of a sub 3:20 marathon, your times over the shorter distances certainly suggest that. I was a novice in 2015 and my target was sub 3:20(finished in 3:18:30) and I had nowhere near the speed you have over the shorter distances but my endurance was probably better as I had a lot of miles under my belt. As Singer has already said your endurance might not be a problem going by your last LSR and he also suggested do some slower running every now and then, that is sound advice.

Thanks Jake , I actually have your log bookmarked as I read it recently and was super impressed with your training and results. Congrats on two great marathons back to back 3.18 then 3.11 fantastic results. I won't be running the 3/4 flat out after the helpful advice here, I'll have a look at it as a progression run or just skip it altogether .

Learning more everyday here, that's the beauty of this novices thread and the training logs you get to see what mistakes others have made and hopefully you can avoid them. I'm starting to see that strength is speed and more easy mileage builds the strength. I think back to last few years where I just ran 5k parkrun flat out each week and no other running and wondered why I wasn't getting faster ! A high mileage week was 10k

Sheep1978

RolandDeschain wrote: »

Question about doing an LSR on the course. Does the Strava route planner have audio cues? Because I have no idea of the course I'd need that or Google maps to direct me!

An app called RunGo was suggested to me last week on here. I haven't used it yet but it has some course runs saved into it from last years runners. I'm planning on doing one of my 20m runs starting at Myos pub and following the rest of the course by using this app. Be lost otherwise

Sheep1978

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

ariana`

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

When i signed up i entered Wave 3 which is 3:59-4:19, the dream finishing time was 3:59. That's still the dream finish time but the more realistic time is still 4:19 and the training hasn't really changed that yet.

BUT i think more importantly the training has changed my attitude and respect for the distance so that now i'd be dead proud with 4:19 or even 4:29 whereas if i'm being really honest with myself originally there might have been a part of me that would be a wee bit disappointed with a finish time > 4hrs

brownbinman

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

I was always aiming for a sub 5, but quietly looking at 4:30 now. Finish & Sub 5 is the target though

Damo 2k9

Booked in to the physio for 6 o clock this evening, hoping it's not too much bad news, here hoping..:(

AuldManKing

ariana` wrote: »

When i signed up i entered Wave 3 which is 3:59-4:19, the dream finishing time was 3:59. That's still the dream finish time but the more realistic time is still 4:19 and the training hasn't really changed that yet.

BUT i think more importantly the training has changed my attitude and respect for the distance so that now i'd be dead proud with 4:19 or even 4:29 whereas if i'm being really honest with myself originally there might have been a part of me that would be a wee bit disappointed with a finish time > 4hrs

Superb thought process & attitude.

brownbinman

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Booked in to the physio for 6 o clock this evening, hoping it's not too much bad news, here hoping..:(

Fingers crossed Damo

skyblue46

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

I'm probably more confused than when I started. A few months ago I had a very naive attitude that 4 hours would be done with a little bit of application. Now I realise that it may not be done even with loads and loads of effort! It has been an eye opening experience and great sharing others experiences too. I just want to finish it soooooo bad!

clickerquicklic

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

Problem for me was looking at calculators at the start and thinking if calculator says I can run x surely x + 20 mins should be easy enough. Definitely have more respect for the distance now than when I started. I'll likely start with an A/B/C goal and C will be finishing it regardless of time.

Unthought Known

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Problem for me was looking at calculators at the start and thinking if calculator says I can run x surely x + 20 mins should be easy enough. Definitely have more respect for the distance now than when I started. I'll likely start with an A/B/C goal and C will be finishing it regardless of time.

That's the attitude! Believe me, no matter what time you finish you'll still get a lump in your throat when you see the finish line and hear those crowds

leesider77

Unthought Known wrote: »

That's the attitude! Believe me, no matter what time you finish you'll still get a lump in your throat when you see the finish line and hear those crowds

I hope they will still be there by the time I make it over the line ;-)

RolandDeschain

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

I haven't changed my estimated finish time yet. I still would love to go sub 4. However, I know that the marathon is a beast and it must be paid a lot of respect. But I do have a voice in the back of my head tempting me with a 3:50. I think that is too ambitious. The plan is still to go at 9 minutes a mile for the first 1/2 to 3/4 of the marathon. Then if it's going well and I feel strong...go for it.

Now that I am so far into the plan and the date itself is getting closer, I'm worrying more about something going wrong that will stop me getting to the finish line #paranoid.

D3PO

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

Not here. Plan was 3.59.59 and even though training has been going pretty well (bar my current injury issue) and theres a chance i could go sub 3.45 I wont change my goal.

I dont see the point in pushing a new goal and between the jigs and the reels missing not only the new goal but the old one by being too bullish about things.

If I do 3.59.59 this time I can always target 3.44.59 next time.

i did very briefly for like 10 minutes after doing the FD10 think about dropping my planned marathon goal time but then copped on to myself lol

Sheep1978

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm probably more confused than when I started. A few months ago I had a very naive attitude that 4 hours would be done with a little bit of application. Now I realise that it may not be done even with loads and loads of effort! It has been an eye opening experience and great sharing others experiences too. I just want to finish it soooooo bad!

pretty much in the exact same boat. Early doors running at 9min miles and thinking 'I could easily run at this pace for a few hours'. total naievity:o

ariana`

Sheep1978 wrote: »

pretty much in the exact same boat. Early doors running at 9min miles and thinking 'I could easily run at this pace for a few hours'. total naievity:o

Seems a lot of us in a similar boat

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

Seems a lot of us in a similar boat

My confusion is the overwhelming thing. I have gone all in on a very easy paced, decent mileage, time on the feet approach. I haven't really been too out of breath on any run. I see many others doing most runs at near PMP and wonder should I be pushing harder. I can see from series race times how close to race pace some are training at. I see people with way faster series races times than I could do say 4hrs will be a real challenge and others who seem a bit slower than me very optimistic about breaking 4! I suppose the half will give us all a much clearer view.

D3PO

just see how you go in the half.

I did the rock n roll half already so have a guage on the realism of my time based on that most on here didnt do that one though. Id say yrace the Dublin Half and see how you get on and go from there.

FWIW I did the rock n roll half in 1 hr 53 mins 42 seconds and am planning on doing the dublin half in 1 hour 47 mins some based on extra training and partly based on the race profile, stick the the 1 50 pacer for the first half and then look to eek out 3 mins on the last 6 miles which are gradually downhilll.

Thats my plan anyway, granted its far faster than I need to be capable of running do go sub 4 hour but its the races are the only times ive pushed myself in terms of max effort.

This of course assumes my IT Band issue clears up, although physio was postive about it when he assessed it and reckons I can be back running in a week as its only a minor strain.

Unthought Known

D3PO wrote: »

just see how you go in the half.

I did the rock n roll half already so have a guage on the realism of my time based on that most on here didnt do that one though. Id say yrace the Dublin Half and see how you get on and go from there.

FWIW I did the rock n roll half in 1 hr 53 mins 42 seconds and am planning on doing the dublin half in 1 hour 47 mins some based on extra training and partly based on the race profile, stick the the 1 50 pacer for the first half and then look to eek out 3 mins on the last 6 miles which are gradually downhilll.

Thats my plan anyway, granted its far faster than I need to be capable of running do go sub 4 hour but its the races are the only times ive pushed myself in terms of max effort.

This of course assumes my IT Band issue clears up, although physio was postive about it when he assessed it and reckons I can be back running in a week as its only a minor strain.

I'd be careful about racing the half flat out if you're only back running next week. It might be better to be a little cautious, forget about a PB and run the first 6 miles at MP. You already have the speed and it's the endurance that will get you over the line on the day.

Your training and times are similar to mine last year. I managed to hit a 1:50 half in July, then got injured a couple of weeks before the Dublin half (I actually skipped that one). My race times all indicated I could scrape in under 4, but on the day I just didn't have the endurance and blew up after about 17 miles.
Mileage is they key for you at this stage, concentrate on getting through the long runs. Your body will thank you for it at mile 20.

Baby75

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Booked in to the physio for 6 o clock this evening, hoping it's not too much bad news, here hoping..:(

Good luck Damo it may not be as bad as you think, I went to the physio over pain in my left hip/butt area and pain in my right knee all caused by tight muscles which feel much better now and I have exercises to do to prevent it happening again, I also have hyper mobility in my joints, not a problem normally, but it is when my ankle can go over on me and if running can cause an injury, I suffered a calf strain from it before so working on strengthening my ankles as well

let us know how you get on!!

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

My confusion is the overwhelming thing. I have gone all in on a very easy paced, decent mileage, time on the feet approach. I haven't really been too out of breath on any run. I see many others doing most runs at near PMP and wonder should I be pushing harder. I can see from series race times how close to race pace some are training at. I see people with way faster series races times than I could do say 4hrs will be a real challenge and others who seem a bit slower than me very optimistic about breaking 4! I suppose the half will give us all a much clearer view.

I don't analyse anyone else's training very much to be honest. I will base my target time on (HM x 2) + 20mins or 10m x 3.

Candamir

Sheep1978 wrote: »

General q - how many peoples planned / estimated marathon times have changed (up or down) following the training to date.?

Starting out I was hoping for 3:59:59 which seemed reasonable based on past race times. But coming at this as a bit of a late starter after an injury, I think it probably would have been achievable, just, if everything in training went great and I had that 'Goldilocks' day in October. Unfortunately real life doesn't always work like that and I've missed 2 1/2+ weeks training. Although I'm getting back into it, I'm going to be a lot more conservative about targets. On the one hand I want to get back on target and hit the training goals (not timing based - just to get the distances done), on the other, I'm worried about ramping up too quickly and aggravating my injury/giving myself a new one! I'll be missing the HM, so I won't really have much of a clue about what a reasonable target for the marathon will be, but while my thinking before was to push the boat out and throw everything at my sub 4 goal, I'm thinking now that I'd like to get around and 'enjoy' the experience (or at least not give myself nightmares after it), even if it's at a slower pace than I'd have liked. I've also developed that 'respect for the distance' that others have mentioned. The marathon really is a beast that you can't comprehend until you see it up close, and we haven't even seen it up so close yet - I've a feeling the respect will grow as the day approaches and we finally get to tackle, and hopefully get around it!
The only caveat here is that I'm not sure I'll be someone who 'runs marathons' - this might be it for me, and that competitive streak in me will want to realise the sub 4 marathon that I'm sure is in me..........must try and keep that feeling under control!!

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm probably more confused than when I started. A few months ago I had a very naive attitude that 4 hours would be done with a little bit of application. Now I realise that it may not be done even with loads and loads of effort! It has been an eye opening experience and great sharing others experiences too. I just want to finish it soooooo bad!

In my non expert opinion I think 4 hours is well within your range. Just from following you on strava I would of guessed you were aiming for 3.45-3.50 range.

scotindublin

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Booked in to the physio for 6 o clock this evening, hoping it's not too much bad news, here hoping..:(

Good luck Damo.....hopefully get some positive news.

Spirogyra

Would it be a major disadvantage if I didn't do a half in the build up ?

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

In my non expert opinion I think 4 hours is well within your range. Just from following you on strava I would of guessed you were aiming for 3.45-3.50 range.

Haha...well I think it could well be possible but I'm the total hypocrite! I might encourage you to shoot for the stars but I have eyes only for 4 hours. Please God if I make the start in one piece I will settle in with the 4 hour pacers and stay there for the day! :rolleyes:

Kellygirl

Spirogyra wrote: »

Would it be a major disadvantage if I didn't do a half in the build up ?

I personally don't think so. I didn't for my first marathon and don't have one to do for this one either. Saying that I have done other races in the past so I know the drill on raceday etc.

Damo 2k9

I dont know if im happy or annoyed after that, I dont know why but I got the feeling that I should have had better results out of it.

After examining my knee etc, he couldnt find anything wrong with my knee and said that there both very healthy and in good shape overall, absolutely delighted with that as obviously if theres nothing standing out to a physio then it cant be that serious, right? Thats what im thinking to myself now. But in the back of my head im also thinking maybe he didnt find it, is there a better physio out there? Did I waste my money going to him to not find out whats wrong with my knee??

He gave me some resistance training exercises to help strengthen up, and also had me run a bit to see if there was anything contributing from that, and gave me some things to work on with that.

He had me practice some of the exercises in the attached gym room, and while doing them my knee started getting a bit sore. Immediately he checked it again inside to try see could he find where it was but couldnt again, it went hiding :rolleyes:

Hes told me to stick to my easy runs, but my long run on Saturday he told me to dial it back to a normal 10 miles, but then have a break with some exercise in between and then 4 miles on grass, so 2 miles off the full 16. So although im creeping up to that flare up point, im not actually reaching it.

Also mentioned was best case and worst case, best case is the exercises help strengthen my knee up and im fit as a fiddle going into the marathon. Worst case is I dont get to do the marathon this year, but ill be in even better shape for next year I just dont think I can settle for that, im a stubborn little fu*ker like that, yous will come to learn

I suppose ill just have to see how I get on, as I said im happy that theres nothing wrong but unhappy that I didnt get to the bottom of it. The show must go on.

positron

I can imagine you how are you feeling, that unsettling feeling is very hard to deal with that the actual pain itself. Best of luck with it! If this is any consolation, I think it takes more confidence for a Doc/Physio to give someone clear cert than to say there's something wrong, or start some treatment for something that might / likely / possibly going wrong etc.. I hope he is right!!

positron

Candamir wrote: »

The only caveat here is that I'm not sure I'll be someone who 'runs marathons' - this might be it for me..

In fairness, there might be a good few here who can relate to this feeling.