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Selling Privately
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Who values the property, decides on the marketing strategy, negotiates the price and deals with queries from purchasers architects and solicitors?Mr. Incognito wrote: »The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.0 -
wordofwarning wrote: »Well I know I would not buy off a private seller unless there was a significant discount. But the seller is selling for a discount off the market rate, than saving the 1% fee is false economy in the first place. Slapping up a sign and selling will not attract all potential buyers
I know some people don't trust estate agents. But if an estate agent lies about bids, they can lose their license and their livelihood. There is an incentive not for them to lie. Whereas a guy with a sign in his garden can lie left, right and centre with no recourse.
This makes no sense. A seller generally knows exactly what his house is worth. Much more so than any estate agent. He does not need to lie about bids in a rising market. Why lie and risk losing an interested party?
I have sold privately and it was painless and got well over the last registered house sale in the area.
This is how its done.
Advertise your house( daft.ie 300euro) at 20% below the market rate to get interest.
Get a professional photographer to take pictures and script a good ad with all the amenities and attributes of your property. (You know these better than any estate agent)
Arrange viewings either individually or an open viewing where you show your property to multiple viewers at a set date and time. Auctioneers love this one because it cuts down their work load.
Start accepting bids and go to each interested party and relay the bid to them.
If you like you can request proof of funds or mortgage approval for people to bid.
Once the highest bid is received you decide if you would like to accept it.
If you do you instruct the buyer to lodge a deposit (usually 5k) with your solicitor and then the sale is sale agreed subject to contract and the solicitor handles the rest.
There is a possibility the sale will fall through for many reasons but this is the same as a sale agreed through an agent.
Buyers usually prefer to buy privately as well. They get your direct line so communication is easy, and you are available after hours and weekends if you choose. You can answer questions that estate agents wont have a clue about, eg. who are the neighbours? when was the boiler last serviced? What specific contents are included? Whats the broadband like?0 -
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Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.0
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Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.
A seller can also list with an agent and also sell privately themselves. Let the agent know you are selling it privately as well. Works the same as selling with multiple agents.0 -
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listermint wrote: »The seller
Not every seller ( In fact the majority do not) has the skill or the detachment to do the work of selling their own property. The assumption that an inexperienced novice will be able to achieve the same price as a hardened negotiator is laughable.
Dealing with messer purchasers is another task that the DIY seller will have no experience of.0 -
I recently sold my property through private sale. Absolutely no problems easy to do. Solicitor did most of the work anyway. I arranged viewings and for buyers surveyor/engineer etc was no problem really.
Saved about 1.5% which is what estate agents were looking for.
In the process of buying a new house and would not believe a single word of what the estate agents are saying. We have been messed around by estate agents on the last 2 houses that we tried to buy.0 -
Mr. Incognito wrote: »The purchasers solicitor will not do the sellers solicitors job for a number of reasons.
1. It's illegal to act on both sides of a conveyancing transaction and for good reason.
2. He's not selling the title. It's up to the Purchasers solicitor to make sure they have good title and draft the documents to sell it.
3. It's up to the Buyers solicitor to check that the title you are buying is good title.
4. You assume wrong.
I assume that this legal work is a cost that is required for all property sales and is not included in the estate agent fees?0 -
I recently sold my property through private sale. Absolutely no problems easy to do. Solicitor did most of the work anyway. I arranged viewings and for buyers surveyor/engineer etc was no problem really.
Saved about 1.5% which is what estate agents were looking for.
Just as a matter of interest what were the solicitor costs i.e. was it a fixed fee or a percentage of the property price? Thanks0 -
Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.
Yep 1641 I reckon that you'd be an atypical purchaser (or else an estate agent).0 -
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Claw Hammer wrote: »Not every seller ( In fact the majority do not) has the skill or the detachment to do the work of selling their own property. The assumption that an inexperienced novice will be able to achieve the same price as a hardened negotiator is laughable.
Dealing with messer purchasers is another task that the DIY seller will have no experience of.
Hahahaha. And an estate agent does.. An estate agent does not care about the sale price of the property. Just wants to achieve a sale, the difference between an estate agent gaining an extra 10k is 150 euro. Not worth their while. A private seller will always achieve more than an estate agent if they have any modicom of interest in the sale of their property.
There is no way to deal with 'messer purchasers' except to ask for mortgage approval or proof of funds. A bid is not legally binding either way until contracts are signed even with a proof of funds or mortgage approval.
As an example just last week I bid on a property from an agent..5 % less than asking. I would have been prepared to go over asking. I called last week and eventually got a receptionist. (several messages usual bull with no returned calls). There was an offer of asking price. Rang again today to be told it was sale agreed. Agent never called me to see if i was interested before he sale agreed it. I would have paid at least 30k more but never got the opportunity. They would not give me the sale agreed price but said it was a little over asking.0 -
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Hahahaha. And an estate agent does.. An estate agent does not care about the sale price of the property. Just wants to achieve a sale, the difference between an estate agent gaining an extra 10k is 150 euro. Not worth their while. A private seller will always achieve more than an estate agent if they have any modicom of interest in the sale of their property.
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An estate agent wants to get the next house in the area to sell. Selling under value is going to harm his chances. Asking for proof of funds will not stop all messer purchasers. You failed to get a house, possibly because you were seen a messer.
The owner of a house is often thye last person who can value it accurately even if the owner is an estate agent. The owner has too much of an emotional stake in the property.0 -
An estate agent wants to get the next house in the area to sell. Selling under value is going to harm his chances. Asking for proof of funds will not stop all messer purchasers. You failed to get a house, possibly because you were seen a messer.
The owner of a house is often thye last person who can value it accurately even if the owner is an estate agent. The owner has too much of an emotional stake in the property.
Are you an estate agent by any chance?
The 'valuation' of a house is nothing. The price someone is willing to pay is determined in the bidding process and the seller or estate agent has no control over this. It is better to undervalue a house for the sole reason of getting people interested in a bargain which usually leads to a higher sale price.
Best advice to sellers out there is to attempt to sell it themselves if they have the time or interest, engage an estate agent as well in tandem on a no win no fee basis and if they achieve a higher price after their commision is included than you have a result.
My experience is a private seller will be able to answer a call immediately, arrange a viewing at short notice or weekends, answer any questions immediately and generally not experience all the frustrations of dealing with the majority of agents.
I doubt i would be considered a 'messer' as i am a professional landlord with multiple properties in the area in question and a cash buyer with proof of funds. I since sale agreed a house down the road through a different agent at i guess more than that house achieved. I am tempted to call to the owners of the other house and let them know my experience and see how their experience was with their agent. I am sure they would be raging if they knew a cash buyer was interested at higher than asking and was not actively pursued.0 -
I bought 2 years ago but had been looking for 18 months before that. So this was 2013-2015, and not in a city, before things started going crazy, so you would have expected EA's to be banging our door down.
From the carry on of them we encountered, I can't figure out what value they add. If anything they cost people sales as we refused to look at further houses from those agents.
We spent 18months in a nightmare.
They won't return calls/messages.
Cant be arsed showing up to viewings. One said the key is under a rock have a look yourselves. Got there to a building site with 200 rocks and no key.
No replies to actual offers.
Would only show a house if we could make it there in 20 mins as he had to collect the kids at 3.
Would not take an offer without showing it to "the husband" (me). Because women who make offers change their minds.
Loads of empty promises/outright lies.
Sold properties in the window/daft listed as available. I thought this was so you would ring and they could show the house down the road but id just get a "that's sale agreed" and they would hang up.
We finally got a viewing and by chance the owner happened to be there fixing something.
Ten mins chatting with the owner we had a fair price agreed, with both parties very happy. Sale was all done and dusted, our solicitor sent his solicitor the deposit and final payment, and 4 weeks later we moved in. Estate Agent did nothing.
If i was selling again i would pop it on daft. Organize viewings for a saturday and be there to talk to anyone coming.
Have a fair price in mind and if you get it, accept it. Dont get into the "other couple bid 2 grand more" nonsense. In lots of cases people get carried away bid 5-10 grand too far and can't afford it. When they drop out the initial bid you wanted has been taken off the table because of all the shenanigans and you have to start again.
Once you get an agreed price the deposit goes to your solicitor and they handle the sale. The estate agent doesnt handle any of the complex stuff.0 -
Claw Hammer and JSD1004 do not post on this thread again.
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Grumpypants wrote: »From the carry on of them we encountered, I can't figure out what value they add. If anything they cost people sales as we refused to look at further houses from those agents.
We spent 18months in a nightmare.
They won't return calls/messages.
Cant be arsed showing up to viewings. One said the key is under a rock have a look yourselves. Got there to a building site with 200 rocks and no key.
No replies to actual offers.
Would only show a house if we could make it there in 20 mins as he had to collect the kids at 3.
Would not take an offer without showing it to "the husband" (me). Because women who make offers change their minds.
Loads of empty promises/outright lies.
Sold properties in the window/daft listed as available. I thought this was so you would ring and they could show the house down the road but id just get a "that's sale agreed" and they would hang up.
Same kind of thing happened to me with my last house. We were looking at houses ~500k and it was like they couldn't be bothered. Walked away from 2 because of the EA messing around.
Refused to use an EA when selling my own because I could not see any value that they add.
Mother in Law selling her place at the moment and I was amazed at the lack of professionalism of the estate agents that were calling to value/put in a proposal. House worth 1.5-2 million in a desirable area. You would think they would be doing their best to get the business.
Couple of examples:
Not showing up at agreed time with no contact
Different EA Rang to say they were outside for the meeting we knew nothing about. Apparently their office was supposed to contact us.
Sent us the proposal for a completely different property. (this one wanted 1.8% of hse price as well)
Sent right proposal but addressed to different name.
These were all well known estate agents as well.0 -
Grumpypants wrote: »
We finally got a viewing and by chance the owner happened to be there fixing something.
Ten mins chatting with the owner we had a fair price agreed, with both parties very happy. Sale was all done and dusted, our solicitor sent his solicitor the deposit and final payment, and 4 weeks later we moved in. Estate Agent did nothing.
Interesting - But are you suggesting that the Vendor did not have to pay the Estate Agent's commission in this case ? I thought that under the usual contract the Estate Agent is entitled to the commission if they "introduce" the buyer to the property ?
Best advice to sellers out there is to attempt to sell it themselves if they have the time or interest, engage an estate agent as well in tandem on a no win no fee basis and if they achieve a higher price after their commision is included than you have a result.
I thought that the vendor's engagement with the Estate Agent is generally on a no-win, no-fee basis (apart from advertising costs) ? I would be surprised if many Estate Agent's would be willing to engage with you on the basis you suggest here (unless the truly desperate). And if they did, it would be just one of the examples of a "messy situation" that I would want to avoid.0 -
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Interesting - But are you suggesting that the Vendor did not have to pay the Estate Agent's commission in this case ? I thought that under the usual contract the Estate Agent is entitled to the commission if they "introduce" the buyer to the property ?
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I'm sure he got it from the seller, we didn't go behind his back, or try to cut him out, he just did nothing to get the sale or help it go through. It could have been done between the buyer and seller with much less hassle.
We chased that house for 3 weeks calling every day just to get a viewing. We only got it because we physically drove to his office and walked in saying we wanted to see it right now, that we had the money ready in our account and wanted to close by the end of the month. He reluctantly showed us the house ("you have 20 mins as I've to be gone by 3" was his words).
By showing the house he drove to it, didn't even open the door as it was already opened, and he stood outside chatting on his phone while we walked around inside.
This was for a client who had 3-4 properties listed with him and was actually in the house, you would think he would be showing off and going overboard.
We spoke with the owner, got the history of the house, why it was for sale, the work that had been done on it, what he was fixing (a small leak), what the internet is like, who local can install sky, how to work the heating, what the neighbours were like! All great info you need when moving into an area/house.
Agreed on the price and agreed on the timeline. The estate agent then walked in and shook hands like he had brokered the whole deal himself.
There is an industry created by people who want to make the whole situation sound more difficult than it is. Estate Agents, and Mortgage & Insurance brokers take big cuts and do nothing you can't do yourself.0 -
Grumpypants wrote: »I'm sure he got it from the seller, we didn't go behind his back, or try to cut him out, he just did nothing to get the sale or help it go through. It could have been done between the buyer and seller with much less hassle.
There is an industry created by people who want to make the whole situation sound more difficult than it is. Estate Agents, and Mortgage & Insurance brokers take big cuts and do nothing you can't do yourself.
Grumpypants - I am not disputing that it is very possible for someone to market their own property without an Estate Agent. But it is a selling game - a lot of people are not comfortable with this (or good at it - particularly when it comes to their home where they have an emotional investment as well as a financial one). Will they reach the same price ? I suppose we will never know. But I do not think they will attract the same footfall as a good Estate Agent will.
Also, there is clearly a wide variability when it comes to quality, service and competence from Estate Agents. Anyone thinking of engaging one should do as much research as possible beforehand. Commission rates are important but should come second to research.0 -
As an example just last week I bid on a property from an agent..5 % less than asking. I would have been prepared to go over asking. I called last week and eventually got a receptionist. (several messages usual bull with no returned calls). There was an offer of asking price. Rang again today to be told it was sale agreed. Agent never called me to see if i was interested before he sale agreed it. I would have paid at least 30k more but never got the opportunity. They would not give me the sale agreed price but said it was a little over asking.
Exact same thing happened to us last time we were looking to buy. The vendor lost out on an extra 20K because the EA finished the bidding early. It was a Friday of a holiday so I can only assume they wanted the sale in that quarter.0 -
Hi all
firstly sorry if I am breaking any rules here by piggy backing this thread and I can create a new one if need.
My father wants to sell an apartment in Dublin City that he bought as an investment years ago. He wants to sell it and pay whatever the capital gains tax is and then look at gifting whatever is left to me to try get myself on the property ladder with the small mortgage I can get.
I am involved in sales for the past 10 years and we want to look at selling it ourselves to save having to pay an estate agent. We just need to notify the current tenant and then put it up for sale. we hope to get someone interested as soon as possible so we will put it up on Daft and see how it goes.
We hope we can keep the tenant in place until we have a sale date so my father doesn't lose out on a month or 2's rent.
this thread has been really helpful and thanks to everyone its put my mind at rest about selling privately and if there is any other advice that'd be great0 -
Where did you get a tenant like taht? Prepared to allow viewings, the apartment to be presented properly, freshened up with no clutter and smells and who will stay until a time agreed between you and the purchaser paying the rent to the last minute. Who won't go to the RTb objecting to your notice of termination, ban viewings and won't source new accommodation until the last minute.Hi all
firstly sorry if I am breaking any rules here by piggy backing this thread and I can create a new one if need.
My father wants to sell an apartment in Dublin City that he bought as an investment years ago. He wants to sell it and pay whatever the capital gains tax is and then look at gifting whatever is left to me to try get myself on the property ladder with the small mortgage I can get.
I am involved in sales for the past 10 years and we want to look at selling it ourselves to save having to pay an estate agent. We just need to notify the current tenant and then put it up for sale. we hope to get someone interested as soon as possible so we will put it up on Daft and see how it goes.
We hope we can keep the tenant in place until we have a sale date so my father doesn't lose out on a month or 2's rent.
this thread has been really helpful and thanks to everyone its put my mind at rest about selling privately and if there is any other advice that'd be great
next time you lose a tooth, put it under the pillow.0 -
Where did you get a tenant like taht? Prepared to allow viewings, the apartment to be presented properly, freshened up with no clutter and smells and who will stay until a time agreed between you and the purchaser paying the rent to the last minute. Who won't go to the RTb objecting to your notice of termination, ban viewings and won't source new accommodation until the last minute.
next time you lose a tooth, put it under the pillow.
Tennant has said he is happy to allow us access to show the apartment over the coming weeks and is happy to stay until we give them a proposed date of sale, they have been there for 6 years and we haved looked after them well and we have a very good relationship with them and they have no problem working with us. I don't think every tenant just runs to the RTB or bans viewings and that was not the point of my post so don't stress yourself too much on this end as i never asked for advice on that end
Good comment about the tooth fairy, real grown up0 -
I'm selling house without auctioneer and these are the few tips I've learned from t'interweb:
Solicitor: €1500 + VAT @23% = €1845/ Fixed price 1350 + land registry fees
Legal questions re title, planning, easements,, LPT, charges, VAT clauses, special conditions, draft the contract of sale, answer requisitions on sale and pre contract enquires, review the Deed of Conveyance/ Lease, give undertakings where required. Ensures buyer has the funds.
The seller's solicitor will draft contracts: deals with special conditions; replies to pre-contract queries; replies to requisitions on title; drafts closing declarations; explains the searches; redeems the mortgage; arranges for the mortgage to be removed from the title; etc. A purchaser's solicitor will only deal with a qualified solicitor with professional indemnity insurance, as will the bank. The bank issues a Letter of Loan Approval to the purchaser and will require a Certificate of Title from the purchaser's solicitor.
The purchaser’s solicitor will not do the sellers solicitors job for a number of reasons.
1. it’s illegal to act on both sides of a conveyancing transaction.
2. It's up to the Purchasers solicitor to make sure they have good title and draft the documents to sell it.
3. it’s up to the Buyers solicitor to check that title you are buying is good title.
If you are selling privately it would be well worth your time to get YOUR solicitor to perform all the legal checks the buyers solicitor will be carrying out and make sure everything is in order and correct. Otherwise the sale can be held up on your end. You're going to have to employ them anyway so you might as well use them to your advantage.
When I sold my last property, I didn't bother taking a booking deposit as it is completely refundable if the sale doesn't go through. So why go to all the hassle - a purchaser may be reluctant to give you a large deposit (usually 10% of the sale price) - but your solicitor may hold it on your behalf.
As regards a solicitor, any solicitor will deal with your conveyancing - some will work on a fixed fee while others will wait until the deal is finished and provide you with an invoice. (https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/sell-property-without-estate-agent.200501/page-2)
Estate agent: 1.5%+€300 (ads, photos, brochure etc)=€4800 (on 300K)
- Vendor’s engagement with the Estate Agent is generally on a no-win, no-fee basis (apart from advertising costs)?
Estate agents used to charge approx 1.5% of the sale price - that's a whopping €3,750 for a €250,000 house! I am more concerned about the house appearance during a viewing and reckon that the money might be more constructively used in house redecoration/ leasing of furniture etc.
Daft.ie Three packages. 300, 400 and 500 (daft.ie/ad-entry/sale). If I was going the DAFT route of paying 299 I would be buying myself a new phone though. That way when its done you can turn it off. Be careful when doing viewings as a few friends have mentioned about stuff going missing. This probably happens more often on open viewings where estate agents hang around the kitchen and people wander freely from room to room. Best to put valuables and photos away also until after going Sale Agreed.0 -
Thanks for the advice Logo, great idea about getting a second phone never thought about all the calls I would get on my work phone0
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One tip i picked up along the way. Don't make the pics on Daft look too good. Sounds silly, but you want people coming to view and being surprised that it is nicer than they expected, rather than dissapointed.0
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Tennant has said he is happy to allow us access to show the apartment over the coming weeks and is happy to stay until we give them a proposed date of sale, they have been there for 6 years and we haved looked after them well and we have a very good relationship with them and they have no problem working with us. I don't think every tenant just runs to the RTB or bans viewings and that was not the point of my post so don't stress yourself too much on this end as i never asked for advice on that end
Good comment about the tooth fairy, real grown up
Last night you hadn't even told the tenant. By lunchtime today he is cooperating? The tenant is there 6 years so the place most likely hasn't been painted in 6 years, has the same furniture and floor covering for the last six years and has all the tenant dirt and smells. All the great sales skills in the world won't make a silk purse out of that sow' ear.0
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