Rent advise

Westwood

Hi all
Just looking for advise.
Renting 4 years now since 2013 to this july, only had a lease for the first 2 years which saw a rent increase around october 2015. Shortly after recievers took over payments and no increase since. Now the landlords have it back in their possession and want to meet up. Its somewhat below market rate for area, dublin.
Am i right in saying they can only put it up by 4% after two years have lapsed since last increase now, and must give 90 days notice? Appreciate any advise. Thanks

Baby01032012

Thats pretty much it in terms of rent increase. Of course they can terminate the lease without a specific reason since the Part IV (4 years) is ending once they give the required notice which ends on or after the 4 year anniversary. That said, any new tenants will be subject to the current rent plus 4% maximum.

Lux23

Is part IV not 6 and half years?

Paulw

Lux23 wrote: »

Is part IV not 6 and half years?

6 years on new leases started after 1st Jan 2017, but old leases it's still 4 years, but after the 4 years, it then becomes 6 years for the second Part IV. I think that's what it says now.

Michael D Not Higgins

Lux23 wrote: »

Is part IV not 6 and half years?

6 years and only for tenancies which start after the latest amendments from 17th January, i.e. we won't be hearing about end of 6 year Part 4 tenancies until after 17 January 2023.

Edit: there will be confusion between 2021 to 2023 on when people's part 4 ends but until then it's 4 years since the start of the part 4 or further part 4.

Westwood

Thanks everyone. So yes part 4 ends in july. If they renew again with no lease ie: we pay rent in august we are onto another part 4 i assume.
Also they could issue notice to leave of 122 days also.
But again no rent increase is allowd until octobor (2 years since previous increase... Regardless of end of part 4? Thats the but im confused over.
Thanks ever so much

Baby01032012

Are you in a PZ...then they can increase the rent every 12 months by no more than 4%

Michael D Not Higgins

Westwood wrote: »

Thanks everyone. So yes part 4 ends in july. If they renew again with no lease ie: we pay rent in august we are onto another part 4 i assume.
Also they could issue notice to leave of 122 days also.
But again no rent increase is allowd until octobor (2 years since previous increase... Regardless of end of part 4? Thats the but im confused over.
Thanks ever so much

They can give notice of termination before July with a reason (doesn't have to be one of the six Part 4 reasons in the RTA) with 84 days notice if they don't want a further Part 4 to come into effect. If notice is given after July the reason must be one of the six from the RTA and the notice period would be 112 days.

The rent increase is not tied to Part 4 and is solely based on the last increase so October, or more likely September was the notice date with 28 days in 2015's legislation into October. This means they could serve notice on the same day in September as your notice in 2015 but the notice period would be 90 days and the new rent would take effect from some time in December.

Westwood

Brilliant thanks michael.
The house condition needs updating and is well below market value, i get the impression they might serve us notice and gut the house and put it either on the market or for a higher rent. Surely if renovated they could hike the rent on these grounds?

GGTrek

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

They can give notice of termination before July with a reason (doesn't have to be one of the six Part 4 reasons in the RTA) with 84 days notice if they don't want a further Part 4 to come into effect.

Just one correction on the notice period and this comes from real experience and real legal advice: to be on safe side notice period should still be 112 days since one of the conditions for a valid section 34(b) notice is: (a) to be served before the 4 years are up (b) to expire after the 4 years have expired. There is almost no case law on section 34(b) notices and the very pro-tenant RTB tribunal might decide that 112 days is the correct notice period given the fact that the notice has to expire after the 4 years.

Reasons for section 34(b) is really just what is quoted above "landlord doesn't want a further Part 4 to come into effect" and the other section 34 reasons should be ignored. Except for the formal way it is written, it is for all practical effects a "no reason given" termination notice.

Michael D Not Higgins

Westwood wrote: »

Brilliant thanks michael.
The house condition needs updating and is well below market value, i get the impression they might serve us notice and gut the house and put it either on the market or for a higher rent. Surely if renovated they could hike the rent on these grounds?

Significant renovation is one of the 6 allowable reasons for terminating a part 4 tenancy. If the renovated property is let again, the previous tenants must be given first refusal however it's a new tenancy and the rent can be set at market rate.

the_syco

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Significant renovation is one of the 6 allowable reasons for terminating a part 4 tenancy.

Off topic, but is there any time limit on how low said renovations can take to do?

Michael D Not Higgins

the_syco wrote: »

Off topic, but is there any time limit on how low said renovations can take to do?

No, the qualifying element is whether there significant or not. If the landlord is replacing the carpet, it's not significant even if it were to be done by himself and would take weeks of his own spare time to do it.

A time limit would be too restrictive, as some jobs would be dependent on the size of the house and extent of renovations. My aunt had her house fully gutted and refit along with an extension. They had to move out for over 6 months to get it done.

Fian

Westwood wrote: »

Thanks everyone. So yes part 4 ends in july. If they renew again with no lease ie: we pay rent in august we are onto another part 4 i assume.
Also they could issue notice to leave of 122 days also.
But again no rent increase is allowd until octobor (2 years since previous increase... Regardless of end of part 4? Thats the but im confused over.
Thanks ever so much

Just to be clear - yes a new part IV begins if you remain in situ beyond July - but it can be terminated for any reason in the first 6 months - so you will not have security of tenure again until you have been in place for 6 months under the new Part IV - in February. Notice of termination can be issued at any time during that period - it does not need to expire before the 6 month anniversary it only needs to issue before then.

Michael D Not Higgins

Fian wrote: »

Just to be clear - yes a new part IV begins if you remain in situ beyond July - but it can be terminated for any reason in the first 6 months - so you will not have security of tenure again until you have been in place for 6 months under the new Part IV - in February. Notice of termination can be issued at any time during that period - it does not need to expire before the 6 month anniversary it only needs to issue before then.

That's incorrect. They've repealed section 42 within the amendments in the Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016. It must be one of the 6 reasons if the further Part 4 tenancy starts. Notice can be given in line with Section 34 b however with any reason but this is ahead of a further Part 4 tenancy coming into being.