Landlord Called Today (to tell us she's selling and we're out)

daheff

daheff wrote: »

No -and lots of people get scammed over something like that.


but you do have to have legal rights to rent it out.

And key -the person they originally rented it from is not the person that is telling them they now own it. Renter should be sensible and protect themselves by ensuring that they are satisfied that ownership has transferred as has the party to the rental agreement.


If you dont agree, i'll be around tomorrow to collect your rent.

The fact the the husband is not around looking for rent though makes it fairly clear that his ex-wife has taken over.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That means entitled in law. Not the person in receipt. Unless the correct formal notice has been provided regarding the transfer of ownership and the tenant notified then the Landlord remains as set out in the original lease.

Is there any requirement to give tenants formal notice of a change in owner, especially when no lease is in force? I'd doubt it very much. Look at how many properties receivers have taken over over the last few years and don't furnish anything?

Mr. Incognito

Barbara Victorious Lyrics wrote: »

The fact the the husband is not around looking for rent though makes it fairly clear that his ex-wife has taken over.

Is there any requirement to give tenants formal notice of a change in owner, especially when no lease is in force? I'd doubt it very much. Look at how many properties receivers have taken over over the last few years and don't furnish anything?

Yes, otherwise it is difficult to get enforcement.

There's a LOT of case law on this. Duffy for example where an assignee couldnt secure an order for vacant possession as the bank had not notified the mortgage holder of an assignment of a mortgage.

And every single receiver that has taken over a property will write to the tenants.

And there is a lease. It's a Part 4 Tenancy which applies the Act. A formal lease is not required.

Like I said. People not knowing the correct law and making bald ill informed assumptions leads to difficulties.

It's not hard. The information is available for free from many sources.

daheff

Barbara Victorious Lyrics wrote: »

The fact the the husband is not around looking for rent though makes it fairly clear that his ex-wife has taken over.

Nope...just means the husband hasn't been around looking for rent. Could be hes sold to somebody else. Or that he just hasnt been around.

could be the property was sold/transferred to the wife, but an agreement was in place he keeps rent for x number of years.....or a whole host of other things that the op has no visibility to. The OP (until properly advised otherwise) has a contract to rent the property from the husband (or whomever is named in the lease agreement).

I do agree that it does appear that the wife has taken over the lease agreement, but the OP needs to protect themselves and be properly informed of this change. Otherwise what is to stop the husband coming back asking for the rent that was not paid to him???

05eaftqbrs9jlh

She visited us with the estate agent and they told us that it's being sold as an investment property with tenants in-situ, so she won't be serving us any formal notice; it will be whoever buys it off her. They will become our landlord and if they want to kick us out, they'll have to serve us with the notice and we'll have the legally stated time (four months) from whenever that is.

We feel a bit relieved, for now. There will be people calling all the time to view it, which is a bit of a pain because we both work during the day. The estate agent has a key. I don't feel good about people coming and going when our pets are there. It's a bit of a mess really. Do we have any rights here? Can I specify that we will only accept visits at times when we're available?

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Also we're really worried about somebody taking something from the house when we're not there. I have a lot of expensive musical instruments and recording equipment which, if taken, would be irreplaceable. We've taken pictures of everything as it is in the house so at least we have timestamped proof of it being here, but it could be very difficult to prove.

I have set up Skype to discreetly self-answer on my tablet when I call, so I can survey the living room (where most of the instruments are kept) and the bedroom (where the recording equipment is). Can anyone recommend any other safeguards, seeing as we can't always guarantee we'll be here?

road_high

Could you buy the house OP? I mean if you're paying rent for a long period, hopefully then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to a mortgage. Especially if you're very happy and settled there.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

road_high wrote: »

Could you buy the house OP? I mean if you're paying rent for a long period, hopefully then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to a mortgage. Especially if you're very happy and settled there.

It would be twelve months before we had the savings together for the deposit, we're in our 20s, and work is just becoming more certain now. We're able to budget better this year because I'm on a fixed-term contract and my partner got a full-time contract. She wants a quick sale, so it might get snapped up in the meantime, but we'll certainly hope to be in a position to buy before it goes. Thanks for the suggestion though, we've talked about it laboriously!

dennyk

From what I know, you don't have to allow the landlord to have viewings at all so long as you are a tenant there. Your landlord cannot just barge in whenever she wants to show people around (nor can her agent), she can only enter the property for emergency repairs or for necessary maintenance and periodic inspections at a reasonable frequency with reasonable advance notice and with your permission. You are well within your rights to insist that viewings only take place when one of you are present and that they are scheduled according to your preferences and availability.

Edit: That said, it would probably be a good idea to make sure you work out the arrangements amicably with the landlord and make yourself available at reasonable times on a regular basis to make the process as easy as possible, otherwise the landlord may decide your rent money isn't worth the trouble and go ahead with serving you notice immediately.

Marcusm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I think that you are misunderstanding the definition.

Landlord is defined as person entiled to receive the rent.

The important word here is ENTITLED.

That means entitled in law. Not the person in receipt. Unless the correct formal notice has been provided regarding the transfer of ownership and the tenant notified then the Landlord remains as set out in the original lease.

In the present case it appears that the OP has clarified that he was correctly notified but the problem in Ireland where 80% of the rented properties are one investment property owners then misunderstandings like this are common and the reasons the PRTB was set up. Because unqualified and unsuitable persons are acting as Landlords and are treating it like their property instead of running it as a business.

Really? Posit a situation where the owner had conveyed the right to receive rent to a third party on an undisclosed party.

I think the situation here seems clear in that there is no suggestion that the erstwhile husband is challenging the situation and there is not necessarily a written tenancy agreement.

wordofwarning

dennyk wrote: »

From what I know, you don't have to allow the landlord to have viewings at all so long as you are a tenant there. Your landlord cannot just barge in whenever she wants to show people around (nor can her agent), she can only enter the property for emergency repairs or for necessary maintenance and periodic inspections at a reasonable frequency with reasonable advance notice and with your permission.

My two cents is that OP should be as accommodating as possible. In this market you want glowing references from a former landlord. If I heard that a to be tenant, as refusing lettings in their former rental. I would be onto the next potential tenant

jamesthepeach

wordofwarning wrote: »

My two cents is that OP should be as accommodating as possible. In this market you want glowing references from a former landlord. If I heard that a to be tenant, as refusing lettings in their former rental. I would be onto the next potential tenant

I agree totally
And remember that one the people you are making trouble for will be your new landlord soon enough.
If they think you keep the place badly and that you dont cooperate with your existing landlord you'll be getting your notice at the first available opportunity.
If they think you are a lovely tenant who keeps the place well, they will probably keep you on.

And remember that a reference from a current landlord is next to useless. Who landlords speak to now are the last couple of landlords before your current one.
They will be asking them did you always pay rent on time. Were you any trouble at all. Did you try to use the deposit as the last months rent.
Your references follow you around for years now, so be careful with them.

seagull

Zain Numerous Velvet wrote: »

We feel a bit relieved, for now. There will be people calling all the time to view it, which is a bit of a pain because we both work during the day. The estate agent has a key. I don't feel good about people coming and going when our pets are there. It's a bit of a mess really. Do we have any rights here? Can I specify that we will only accept visits at times when we're available?

It's your home while you're renting, and you dictate who can come in and when. You want to be accommodating, but don't let yourselves be walked over. If you're not comfortable with the property being shown when you're not there, say so.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I agree totally
And remember that one the people you are making trouble for will be your new landlord soon enough.
If they think you keep the place badly and that you dont cooperate with your existing landlord you'll be getting your notice at the first available opportunity.
If they think you are a lovely tenant who keeps the place well, they will probably keep you on.

Well after my partner took work off early yesterday to come and meet the estate agent for the measuring, he cancelled citing a family emergency and asked if he could do the same thing today. We told him we wouldn't be available until six today and he was alright about it, even though it's outside of office hours. I thought that was decent of him.

jamesthepeach wrote: »

And remember that a reference from a current landlord is next to useless. Who landlords speak to now are the last couple of landlords before your current one.
They will be asking them did you always pay rent on time. Were you any trouble at all. Did you try to use the deposit as the last months rent.
Your references follow you around for years now, so be careful with them.

I was in touch with her ex during the week and he promised to give a glowing reference so I'm not too worried about that. This was our first rental so all I have beyond that is my college landlord who I'm sure would be only too accomodating with references. We're very reliable tenants so we're not worried about that.

Ms Doubtfire1

I would be very reluctant letting a stranger into my home when I'm not there. I'd insist the agent work with me on my times

05eaftqbrs9jlh

seagull wrote: »

It's your home while you're renting, and you dictate who can come in and when. You want to be accommodating, but don't let yourselves be walked over. If you're not comfortable with the property being shown when you're not there, say so.

That's my feeling too, but when I told him that I wanted to be there when people would be calling, he looked at me as though I have four heads and started to argue that people wouldn't be available at the times I specified (any weekday after 3:30 and Friday to Sunday any time). I told him to try and work around us and we'll see about getting work off if it's unavoidable.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I would be very reluctant letting a stranger into my home when I'm not there. I'd insist the agent work with me on my times

Our timeframes are very broad so I think I'll stick to my guns. The landlady is looking for nearly 300,000 for it - that's 170k more than the house next door (not recently done up like ours, but one full house instead of three rental properties) which has been on the market for nearly two years now, is going for!

She said she wants a quick sale, she'll literally never sell it for that price. Not in this decade anyway. Her husband will be a grand reference for the next rental we pursue, and my college landlord. Being honest, I don't want her anywhere near my future because she's been an absolute nightmare to deal with and I wouldn't want to draw her on any potential landlords to come. Speaking to her can actually be incredibly exhausting.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Got a call from landlady Monday night at 11pm to say the first viewings would be on Wednesday at 4:30pm. No bother, we said.

Anyway, I had to leave work sick on Tuesday with respiratory problems for which I have since remained in hospital... so I was at home early and doing some work on my laptop in bed resting. The estate agent peered in the window all of a sudden saying "nobody's home now" to whoever he was with.

I ran to the front door and asked what the story was. The place wasn't a mess or anything but we had explicitly agreed Wednesday. No, it was Tuesday, he insisted. The place isn't fit, I said. He'd go upstairs first so I had a chance to hoover. I was tempted to bar him entry but I didn't want to make a bad impression on potential buyers.

So I ran around the house in ten minutes getting it organised as best I could. I fully put my hospitalisation the next day down to this exertion as I had an asthma attack, which has never happened me before.

My partner rang the landlady to tell her about the supposed mix-up. He had definitely told her Wednesday, of that I have no doubt. The upstairs tenants weren't even home when the viewings took place. Their homes were entered and viewed without their knowledge or presence, which is actually an illegal act.

My partner also rang the estate agent and told him that if anything like this happened again, we would involve the PRTB and Threshold. We also told him we've set up a webcam to film while we're out so we know if he enters our property illegally. The reasons we are so sure he did it on purpose are:

1. He was loathe to agree on times when we would be there
2. When he looked in the window, he said "there's nobody here now"
3. He also definitely lied to the landlady as she was coming to collect rent on Wednesday so that was the day we agreed.

That's the story anyway. We shouldn't have anything to worry about going forward as I mentioned, because I have the webcam surveillance and we're also deadlocking our door each day, which he cannot breach.

What a charlatan though.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Oh my god, the estate agent is completely taking the piss. He's been calling at times at didn't agree on. I actually went into hospital suffering from an asthma attack because I was home sick from work and he called unexpectedly; prompting me to have to run around cleaning for the viewing.

We called and told him in no uncertain terms that this was unacceptable, but our upstairs neighbours have just told us that he hasn't once told them when he's calling. He just lets himself in and traipses around their apartments when they're not there.

We have a dead lock for our door and we're confident enough that he won't trespass again but what recourse do the upstairs neighbours have? I've been a witness to two separate entries to both of their properties that I now see were without their consent. That's illegal.

pilly

Zain Numerous Velvet wrote:

We have a dead lock for our door and we're confident enough that he won't trespass again but what recourse do the upstairs neighbours have? I've been a witness to two separate entries to both of their properties that I now see were without their consent. That's illegal.

Have you looked at any other places yet? I'll be honest, if it was me I'd be concentrating on moving in if it's having such an effect on your health.

jamesthepeach

I think you are making a big deal of nothing op.
As anyone here who has ever sold or even viewed a house here will tell you , it is perfectly normal for the owners/occupants to not be present for any viewings.

Anyone viewing the property will be aware that you are being awkward, and should they buy it, would be unlikely to let you stay, as they would think what will you be like in future.

So when it's sold, it will probably get renovated and you given your notice.

If the landlord can't sell it and the feedback is that you are causing the property not to sell, then you'll be getting your marching orders too.

If you go along with the process in a normal way, you may be unaffected at all by any sale.

Also you said you have deadlock that the landlord can't open. Have you locked the landlord out?

testaccount123

Ignore the previous poster OP, he's happy to ignore tenancy law as a landlord and thinks by changing his username we don't know who he is.

Id consider denying all viewing access at this point, you are under no obligation to facilitate.

jamesthepeach

testaccount123 wrote: »

Ignore the previous poster OP, he's happy to ignore tenancy law as a landlord and thinks by changing his username we don't know who he is.

Id consider denying all viewing access at this point, you are under no obligation to facilitate.

What are you on. What was my username before? That's a new one on me.
I'm trying to help the op, by getting them to cooperate with their landlord and working this out fairly to both of them, with no I'll consequences to the op.
You are trying to hurt their situation. Why?

seagull

Next time the estate agent arrives at a time not agreed, tell him to go away. If he tries to enter, call the gardai. They are asking you for a favour, so should be accommodating your conditions.

Does the estate agent work for themselves or for a company? If for a company, contact their head office and make a complaint.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Also you said you have deadlock that the landlord can't open. Have you locked the landlord out?

We have facilitated all viewings, but he has repeatedly called at times not agreed upon. The landlady should probably have the deadlock key too, I doubt the estate agent does.

testaccount123 wrote: »

Ignore the previous poster OP, he's happy to ignore tenancy law as a landlord and thinks by changing his username we don't know who he is.

You'd never guess he had any bias, based on his estimation of things.

testaccount123 wrote: »

Id consider denying all viewing access at this point, you are under no obligation to facilitate.

We really do want it to sell so we can maybe go back to living normally here or somewhere else. Threshold said to get it in writing when he wants to view and have it signed by all tenants, maybe that's the avenue to go down. It seems awful complicated for somebody who can't even stick to a time right now.

seagull wrote: »

Next time the estate agent arrives at a time not agreed, tell him to go away. If he tries to enter, call the gardai. They are asking you for a favour, so should be accommodating your conditions.

Does the estate agent work for themselves or for a company? If for a company, contact their head office and make a complaint.

Works for himself. He's a total charlatan. The landlady went with him because he sold them the property first day but he's ridiculously incompetent. When we were on to him a minute ago to explain that the upstairs neighbours thought there was a break-in because their house was disturbed after his visit yesterday (English isn't their first language so they asked us to call on their behalf) he wouldn't let a word in edgeways and started going on about the value of some property that has nothing to do with us and then his signal cut out... I would not want him to be selling my property.

wordofwarning

OP you could write a letter or an email to the agent explaining if he enters the property again, you will report him to PSRA for misconduct.

The RTB would like just punish your landlord, who might not be aware she has hired a cowboy. But the PSRA can revoke his license and stop him from selling a property again.

I personally would be inclined to report his conduct to the PSRA now. He seems like he will not play by your rules. He might when the PSRA is involved.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

wordofwarning wrote: »

OP you could write a letter or an email to the agent explaining if he enters the property again, you will report him to PSRA for misconduct.

The RTB would like just punish your landlord, who might not be aware she has hired a cowboy. But the PSRA can revoke his license and stop him from selling a property again.

I personally would be inclined to report his conduct to the PSRA now. He seems like he will not play by your rules. He might when the PSRA is involved.

Thank you very much, having researched this body, I will be doing exactly this.

seagull

Does unlawful entry exist on the statute books here, and would the gardai take any action? Call your local station and find out. If they say yes, then just call them next time he goes into either your or your neighbour's property without authorization.