Underpaid jobs

TerrorFirmer

ziggy wrote: »

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Why do people insist on taking things so personally? It's not 'in his eyes'. Unskilled is unskilled - it's not a matter of opinion. It's not dismissing the job or looking down on it. Everyone knows you could be in an unskilled position and earning a very good wage.

Unskilled is not a dirty or derogatory word. It just is what it is.

Parchment

topcatcbr wrote: »

Not true.

If you're parents are self employed you will not get any assistance. There are many other cases which may stop u being able to avail of third level education.

My parents are self employed - i was able to go to university. I worked through it and paid my own way.

I said its available to all - it is. Like others pointed out it may not be feasible for all - but its there if you want it.

davo2001

munstermagic11 wrote: »

In the age of more people being on mobile devices than at a PC, and with autocorrect features they have, can we not go spelling nazi when it's just a single word or two?

No, to be fair, I walked straight into that one

Ash.J.Williams

kbannon wrote: »

Public interfacing public servants e.g. gardai nurses and teachers.


I'm in IT so obviously the IT sector should pay waaay more.

IT is hilarious, for a standard IT service role you need to be a master of EVERYTHING!

Pure tashte

Permabear wrote: »

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Maybe the pay is similar in the UK, but conditions and opportunities for postgraduate training are higher, why else would so many nurses be going there? Australia is much higher, but New Zealand, Canada and America are also higher.

Of course, due to the number of nurses that are leaving after getting a free education, the HSE spends huge sums of money bringing in nurses from India and the Philipines. Surely if the HSE gave better starting wages to Irish nurses, it would save them money in the long term.

blanch152

topcatcbr wrote: »

I hate the way we put each other down. There is always those who think everyone else is paid too much.

The truth is that the difference in pay between management and staff in all sectors of society does not reflect the difference in work levels or responsibility. Especially when it comes to senior management.

The public sector is prime example. With all the cuts imposed on the frontline staff pay the management got proportionally less cuts. But when there is increases given eg benchmarking they got much higher increases.

The trend being that the gap between the rich and poor getting higher all the time.

So in my opinion this needs to be adjusted everywhere. All lower paid jobes should be brought up to a point that in all organisations the highest paid should get the same increase as the lowest paid. This system of management getting pay increase through efficiency by cutting the lower paid who actually do the work is unjust.

So stop belittling each other.

The bit in bold is so wrong it's unbelievable.

In the public sector, those earning less than around €33k have already had their pay fully restored to 2008 levels.

Those earning over 100k were subject to the highest pay cuts, see this link to the 2009 Act that imposed pay cuts:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/41/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2


In fact they also got one more pay cut than the others. As you will see from this link, the 2013 pay cuts only applied to those earning more than 65k.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/18/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2


They also got higher amounts of the pension levy imposed on them - which has been abolished for those earning under 30k.

It is amazing the myths that get propagated about public service pay.

draiochtanois

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Permabear

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draiochtanois

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Permabear

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Tell me how

Permabear wrote:

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That's isn't the purpose of the thread.
It's just asking for opinions on identifying underpaid professions.

There's no surer way to shut it down than to turn it in to a political type conversation on taxation and expenditure.

maudgonner

Carers.

dev100

topcatcbr wrote:

I know with the Army now they need to fill 800 positions now with hundreds leaving every month. They are finding it difficult to get people to join.

The defence forces job is no longer a good pensionable job that it once was for the ordinary foot soldier
All the military wants now is young lads out of school keep them them for 5 or 10 year and feck them out then.
They don't want any oul lads or oul ones unless you move up the ranks but not everyone has that opportunity to do so.

topcatcbr wrote:

For years people have said if its that bad why join. Now its a reality. People don't want the public sector jobs. When once it was a case of being able to attract the best people for the jobs with more than enough of the right people. Now its a case of take what you get and this will effect those services in the future.

You can be guaranteed people will apply for the military. The pay is ****e because people are going for it. If people stopped applying the wages would have to go up. Supply and demand.

murpho999

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Gardai and nurses. Friend of mine is a SHO in a regional hospital and I was shocked at how little he told me he's paid considering the crazy hours he's expected to work

So your friend is neither a garda or a nurse.

An SHO is a doctor. Recently qualified and will have a career path onto good money as they move up the scale.

topcatcbr

dev100 wrote: »

The defence forces job is no longer a good pensionable job that it once was for the ordinary foot soldier
All the military wants now is young lads out of school keep them them for 5 or 10 year and feck them out then.
They don't want any oul lads or oul ones unless you move up the ranks but not everyone has that opportunity to do so.




You can be guaranteed people will apply for the military. The pay is ****e because people are going for it. If people stopped applying the wages would have to go up. Supply and demand.

But its not. I am in the army and know that there are people waiting since last year to be called because they couldn't get enough to fill a platoon.

andekwarhola

Teachers, child care workers and nurses.

Also Luas and bus drivers who perform infinitely more critical functions than the above and should be on at least 150k a year.

topcatcbr

blanch152 wrote: »

In the public sector, those earning less than around €33k have already had their pay fully restored to 2008 levels.

In general pay will have increased as those who were on a lower scale in 2008 will be now on a higher level of that scale. This will give an impression that the averages will have gone up. Especially since their was recruiting embargo.

But for those who were on the highest level in 2008 their pay is still considerably less.
I have pay slips going back 20 years. I can prove it.

Parchment

andekwarhola wrote: »

Teachers, child care workers and nurses.

Also Luas and bus drivers who perform infinitely more critical functions than the above and should be on at least 150k a year.

I totally agree with childcare workers. The profession will never be taken seriously unless the vital work done there is valued and paid for appropriately. Its a job that requires huge patience, responsibility and its totally underpaid.

Permabear

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OldNotWIse

Firefighters.

OldNotWIse

andekwarhola wrote: »

Teachers, child care workers and nurses.

Also Luas and bus drivers who perform infinitely more critical functions than the above and should be on at least 150k a year.

Luas drivers should be on at least 150k?

andekwarhola

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Luas drivers should be on at least 150k?

I was being sarcastic :pac: (about Luas and Bus Drivers).

Agreed it's galling to see how little of the exorbitant fees charged by creches actually appear to end up in the wages of carers although I don't know the overall cost of running such a business.

topcatcbr

andekwarhola wrote: »

I was being sarcastic :pac: (about Luas and Bus Drivers).

Agreed it's galling to see how little of the exorbitant fees charged by creches actually appear to end up in the wages of carers although I don't know the overall cost of running such a business.

I don't know but id imagine that the cost of property and insurance has a big role to play.

Permabear

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Geuze

blanch152 wrote: »

In the public sector, those earning less than around €33k have already had their pay fully restored to 2008 levels.

Is this correct? Let's check.

The first pay cut was 5% for wages up to 30k. Above that it was a 7.5% pay cut.

Then there was the second pay cut, the PRD.

What has happened in the LRA? Have these been fully reversed?

The PRD has been abolished for those earning up to 28,750.

Okay, for somebody on 28k, the PRD has been abolished, and they have got the following pay restoration:

1-Jan-2016 = +1%
April 2017 = +1,000

So 28k less 5% = 26,600

Jan 2016 +1% = 26,866
April 2017 +1,000 = 27,866

So, somebody on 28k has seen much, but not quite all, of their two pay cuts restored.

topcatcbr

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree. Life is as difficult now as i can ever remember. Costs keep going up but salaries are stagnant. We constantly blame pay for rising costs.

I do think there is more to it. We are still paying for banking sector failings through taxes. We are also paying for it through higher banking costs and insurance premiums. This is pushing up prices all the time reducing living conditions of those on average wages.

Geuze

topcatcbr wrote: »

The public sector is prime example. With all the cuts imposed on the frontline staff pay the management got proportionally less cuts. But when there is increases given eg benchmarking they got much higher increases.

Higher earners in the PS took higher pay cuts than lower earners.

OldNotWIse

andekwarhola wrote: »

I was being sarcastic :pac: (about Luas and Bus Drivers).

Agreed it's galling to see how little of the exorbitant fees charged by creches actually appear to end up in the wages of carers although I don't know the overall cost of running such a business.

Oh I've lost my Boards touch!

Permabear

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Geuze

Permabear wrote: »

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Taxes in Ireland are below European averages.

The price level is 20-25% above the EU average.

This is due to excessive costs:

• extremely high property costs
• massive insurance costs
• high legal costs
• high medical costs [e.g. a GP in France charges 23-25]

Govt policies do contribute to these high costs, yes.

PMBC

Sosurface wrote: »

The other side of the coin. Who doesnt get enough dollar? I'll start the ball rolling with my own profession: Engineering. World literally cannot function without us. Relatively well compensated in some places. Just thrown on the pile of middle income mediocracy in the Irish idiocracy.

Don't get me started.
Why didn't we study Med., Accountancy or Law? Leaving myself out, the lads in my class were the best of their schools.
EI don't do a lot for the guys on the ground. Cheated worse than GOs by Contractors on sites. CEs let down the team by taking the money for BLG; so Councils are no longer a place to work. Big contractors use us like subbies, squeeze til dry and then throw away! Poor training post qualification, become part of the construction boom and bust cycle. I laugh when Tom P looks for emigrants to return - who is he suiting. Stay where you are if you are doing well. As I said, don't get me started.

Sosurface

Geuze wrote: »

Taxes in Ireland are below European averages.

The price level is 20-25% above the EU average.

This is due to excessive costs:

• extremely high property costs
• massive insurance costs
• high legal costs
• high medical costs [e.g. a GP in France charges 23-25]

Govt policies do contribute to these high costs, yes.

20-25% is just income tax though. We have a whole army of stealth taxes and similar sneaky measures. Like for example: Motor insurance. It's illegal not to have insurance BUT the state neither provides an outlet to supply this legal requirement or regulates the price. I know this is off topic a bit but how is that not illegal state aid to private industry?

topcatcbr

Geuze wrote: »

Is this correct? Let's check.

The first pay cut was 5% for wages up to 30k. Above that it was a 7.5% pay cut.

Then there was the second pay cut, the PRD.

What has happened in the LRA? Have these been fully reversed?

The PRD has been abolished for those earning up to 28,750.

Okay, for somebody on 28k, the PRD has been abolished, and they have got the following pay restoration:

1-Jan-2016 = +1%
April 2017 = +1,000

So 28k less 5% = 26,600

Jan 2016 +1% = 26,866
April 2017 +1,000 = 27,866

So, somebody on 28k has seen much, but not quite all, of their two pay cuts restored.

The pay increase for April 1 has yet to be given.
We also have had allowances reduced or abolished.
Ok. Now do that for somone on €33000. He is still down to €29668. And looking at my payslip paying €19.71 pw in pension levy. My pay is a little above €33,000 pa but not by much. Certainly less than €40,000. I have a BSc in construction and work as an architectural tech. And im on the highest point of my payscale.

I will be leaving this year because of the pay. I am not alone. I see many of my colleagues leaving and have already left in the last 2 years. Its lime rats leaving a sinking ship.

We are paid less now than we were 15 years ago. You can argue that the country cant afford to pay more. Thats fine. However we cant afford to stay. They can't attract people to join either. Theyre running a recruiting campeign looking for at least 800 and are worried as they are getting little interest. I was a few open days recently and saw first hand. There were more staff than people who turned up.

I know that there are people leaving at a rate of about 100 per month. Its getting serious.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Don't know how anybody can put teachers alongside nurses & garda. For the hours they work they do pretty well. And don't quote me any of that stress nonsense, the majority of jobs are stressful

Jodotman

Teachers? Really?

Primary school teachers do 9 to 3 and 2 months off in the summer. I couldn't think of a least stressful job. People saying teachers have never worked in a high pressure office environment.

Secondary school teachers have three months off in the summer and generally work 9-4. That's plenty of time to get your lesson plans done.

I know secondary school teachers have it tough in some schools but other schools it's piss easy.

If anything there paid too much.

topcatcbr

Geuze wrote: »

Higher earners in the PS took higher pay cuts than lower earners.

During the benchmarking just before the crash. Management got increase of approx 11% and got cuts of approx 8-9% while the lower paid got an increase of 4% during benchmarking and got pay cuts of approx 7% not including the pension levy.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

murpho999 wrote: »

So your friend is neither a garda or a nurse.

An SHO is a doctor. Recently qualified and will have a career path onto good money as they move up the scale.

Yes I know, I'm not a thick.
I answered the OP. I think guards and nurses should be paid more. If you check my previous post, I'm pretty sure talking about my friend started in a new sentence, where i stated I was surprised he was on a lot less money than you'd think considering his hours and work load.

valoren

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Average pay for HSE nurses is about €55k - €60k. How much more do you think they should be paid?

If you had 5 nurses and 4 earned 25k but one earned 50k, then the average pay would be 30k.

Averages always skew towards the higher earners.

spurious

Jodotman wrote: »

Teachers? Really?

Primary school teachers do 9 to 3 and 2 months off in the summer. I couldn't think of a least stressful job. People saying teachers have never worked in a high pressure office environment.

Secondary school teachers have three months off in the summer and generally work 9-4. That's plenty of time to get your lesson plans done.

I know secondary school teachers have it tough in some schools but other schools it's piss easy.

If anything there paid too much.

You need to qualify to do with teachers with 'those on full hours'.
This is not the majority of teachers.

There are schools where half the staff are on less than 14 hour contracts a week, where they are on a contract at all. They will still be there everyday, as their hours will be spread over the week.

Did you know who had full time hours and who was part-time out of your own teachers?

valoren

Perhaps a controversial one but professional footballers. Specifically, the elite leagues worldwide.
It's the world's biggest sport, and while a few superstars earn millions, the vast majority earn a pittance in comparison.
Now I know earning 5 to 15 grand a week sounds obscene but considering the short window of a career and what the game itself earns, then the players themselves are paid relatively little. That pay is usually the gross figure too. Tax usually accounts for circa 50% depending on the country you play in.

gossamer

Cleaners, full-stop. The money starting out can be farcical. Part-time cleaning work is taxed to the balls, too. Not to mention the absolute state fully-functioning adults leave the toilets in, pigs would be easier to clean up after. It's a valuable service, I have no idea why they're not getting paid more.

draiochtanois

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osarusan

valoren wrote: »

Perhaps a controversial one but professional footballers. Specifically, the elite leagues worldwide.
It's the world's biggest sport, and while a few superstars earn millions, the vast majority earn a pittance in comparison.
Now I know earning 5 to 15 grand a week sounds obscene but considering the short window of a career and what the game itself earns, then the players themselves are paid relatively little. That pay is usually the gross figure too. Tax usually accounts for circa 50% depending on the country you play in.

Carlos Tevez's monthly pay slip from Man City in 2010:

£747,287 gross, deductions of £338,889.

topcatcbr

osarusan wrote: »

Carlos Tevez's monthly pay slip from Man City in 2010:

£747,287 gross, deductions of £338,889.

How does he cope.

valoren

Tevez is an outlier example, he probably can't believe he earns such cash.
The Ronaldos et al are well compensated despite taxation, they are so good that it is inevitable.
And they, like professional golfers, can earn more off the field than on it.

I'm looking at mid table mediocrity teams, the Hull City's, Middlesborough's. You can't have a premier league with the top 4 teams. Say you're 28 and reaching the peak of your career, you get a contract for £30,000 a week (average PL wages) with West Ham and you earn ?780,000 a year. A brilliant wage for such a mid-table club.

You get ?3 million over a 4 year contract, meanwhile the game itself has in that intervening period earns multiple billions.
You start looking at that £3 million like crumbs from a main feast. That to me is being underpaid in the bigger picture.

It's no wonder you'd need a solid agent to negotiating for you, I would never begrudge a professional footballer earning what are looked on as obscene wages.

osarusan

valoren wrote: »

Tevez is an outlier example, he probably can't believe he earns such cash.
The Ronaldos et al are well compensated despite taxation, they are so good that it is inevitable.
And they, like professional golfers, can earn more off the field than on it.

I'm looking at mid table mediocrity teams, the Hull City's, Middlesborough's. You can't have a premier league with the top 4 teams. Say you're 28 and reaching the peak of your career, you get a contract for ?30,000 a week (average PL wages) with West Ham and you earn ?780,000 a year. A brilliant wage for such a mid-table club.

You get ?3 million over a 4 year contract, meanwhile the game itself has in that intervening period earns multiple billions.
You start looking at that ?3 million like crumbs from a main feast. That to me is being underpaid in the bigger picture.

It's no wonder you'd need a solid agent to negotiating for you, I would never begrudge a professional footballer earning what are looked on as obscene wages.

Wasn't disagreeing, was pointing out how much tax he pays.

Best paid player at Burnley is on £18,000 a week I think. I think Blackpool had a cap of £10,000 a week when they were in the Premier League too.

What's surprising is in leagues like MLS, you get the marquee player who makes millions, yet the home-grown talent could be on only 60 or 70 grand a year.

Kaka was getting $7 million a year at Orlando City, while his strike partner (who scored 17 goals to Kaka's 9) was on $167,000 a year.

cantdecide

Call centres. The stories you have heard are true but the worst truth is the sheer exploitation of the working poor.

I worked in a contact centre (doing backoffice admin) where people were being screamed at by the public for €19,500 starting wage. The worst thing is that it was a function outsourced by the government. Not that anyone should be screaming at anyone ever but you would easily believed you were talking to public servants who may have had some perks and some quality of life and not the working poor. Everyone involved in the enterprise should give themselves a pat on the back. Personally, I think anyone that presides over these exploitative outsourcing exercising are scum.

Donald Trump

Permabear wrote: »

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There are many reasons why Irish nurses might go abroad.....[/quote]

You forgot to mention - "have already exhausted all available supplies of mickey in Coppers" :P

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

Is this correct? Let's check.

The first pay cut was 5% for wages up to 30k. Above that it was a 7.5% pay cut.

Then there was the second pay cut, the PRD.

What has happened in the LRA? Have these been fully reversed?

The PRD has been abolished for those earning up to 28,750.

Okay, for somebody on 28k, the PRD has been abolished, and they have got the following pay restoration:

1-Jan-2016 = +1%
April 2017 = +1,000

So 28k less 5% = 26,600

Jan 2016 +1% = 26,866
April 2017 +1,000 = 27,866

So, somebody on 28k has seen much, but not quite all, of their two pay cuts restored.

You are right, it is only the first two or three points of the Clerical Officer salary that have had full restoration. Those above that have only had around 90% of the cuts restored.

However, the general points I made, that firstly, the cuts were more severe on the higher paid, and secondly, that restoration has focussed on the lower-paid, are true.

blanch152

gossamer wrote: »

Cleaners, full-stop. The money starting out can be farcical. Part-time cleaning work is taxed to the balls, too. Not to mention the absolute state fully-functioning adults leave the toilets in, pigs would be easier to clean up after. It's a valuable service, I have no idea why they're not getting paid more.

A part-time cleaner pays little or no tax, PRSI or USC.