Bill from a hospital - debt collector

Lollymcd

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of the following, I'm wondering if my situation has truly been rectified or if I should expect more hassle / unprofessionalism.

Was in A&E in <a hospital> on 21st March.

Received invoice for €100 on 28th March.

Paid invoice by credit card on <the hospital's> website on 11th of April.

Funds left my bank account on 13th of April.

Received receipt from <the hospital>dated 12th April.

Yesterday, 8th of May, received a letter from <a debt collector> dated 4th of May, informing me that <the hospital> has instructed them to communicate with me their intention of collecting the outstanding balance of €100.

I have called the hospital and they have said they will contact <the debt collector> and inform them that the account has been settled. I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with this? Should I trust the hospital (who have already messed up) with dealing with this? Should I contact <the debot collector> myself? Should I expect more letters, phone calls and harassment? From reading various threads on boards.ie this seems to go hand in hand with <the debt collector>?.

[Totally aside, does 5 weeks (28th March-invoice date to May 4th-letter from <the debt collector>) seem like an unreasonable short amount of time allowed before the hospital contacts a debt collection agency if a debt is unpaid? I know they have to do it but I thought something more along the lines of 3 months or 6 months would have been acceptable.]

Mr. Incognito

Debt collectors have no standing to collect the debt.

Throw it in the bin and forget about it.

They will threaten the sun moon and stars but they cannot affect you in any way.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'd engage with them once and only once. Say I've paid the bill, I have the proof and I want no further communication. If you believe I've not paid the bill see you in court. Then get on to the admin office at James' and give them a polite but firm earful.

In fairness if you were in James' A&E department you know the challenges they face re getting payment so they are probably a bit trigger happy with the debt letters.

Peregrinus

Lollymcd wrote: »

[Totally aside, does 5 weeks (28th March-invoice date to May 4th-letter from <the debt collector>) seem like an unreasonable short amount of time allowed before the hospital contacts a debt collection agency if a debt is unpaid? I know they have to do it but I thought something more along the lines of 3 months or 6 months would have been acceptable.]

A creditor can take action to collect what is due to him any time after it has fallen due.

Mr. Incognito

Peregrinus wrote: »

A creditor can take action to collect what is due to him any time after it has fallen due.

These parasites are not the creditor. They have bought the debt on the basis that they can send scary letters and hope that you cough up.

Just to be clear on the law;

1. They cannot instruct the sheriff
2. They cannot take you to Court
3. They cannot affect your credit rating
4. They are not the creditor.

I wouldnt waste a phone call on them. Throw it in the bin and forget about it.

Peregrinus

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

These parasites are not the creditor. They have bought the debt on the basis that they can send scary letters and hope that you cough up.

Just to be clear on the law;

1. They cannot instruct the sheriff
2. They cannot take you to Court
3. They cannot affect your credit rating
4. They are not the creditor.

I wouldnt waste a phone call on them. Throw it in the bin and forget about it.

Don't know what the arrangement between the HSE and <the debt collector> is, but a creditor - let's assume the HSE is a creditor - can assign their rights to a third party, unless the contract under which the rights arise forbids this.

I was answering the general question of whether a creditor has to wait a while before taking enforcement action in respect of a debt due. The answer is "no". If the debt falls due on Monday and isn't paid, the creditor can issue court proceedings on Tuesday, if he wants to, or take less dramatic action like issuing a letter threatening court proceedings. And if the creditor can do that, so can an assignee of the debt, or an agent acting on behalf of the creditor.

Mr. Incognito

Peregrinus wrote: »

Don't know what the arrangement between the HSE and <the debt collector> is, but a creditor - let's assume the HSE is a creditor - can assign their rights to a third party, unless the contract under which the rights arise forbids this.

I was answering the general question of whether a creditor has to wait a while before taking enforcement action in respect of a debt due. The answer is "no". If the debt falls due on Monday and isn't paid, the creditor can issue court proceedings on Tuesday, if he wants to, or take less dramatic action like issuing a letter threatening court proceedings. And if the creditor can do that, so can an assignee of the debt, or an agent acting on behalf of the creditor.

Apples and Oranges.

You are talkinga about the rights of a CREDITOR

Firstly there is a limit in law to the types of Debt that can be assigned. In essence they must be assignable. Things like mortgages, Loan Agreements etc can be assigned.

Trade Debts cannot.

These debt collection firms are NOT CREDITORS. They buy up trade debts and send filmsy letters which cannot be enforced.

The HSE has no contract to assign. They have a trade debt. It is not capable of assignment.

There's lots of fancy law on this I could refer you but its a waste of time when you cannot even grasp the basic fundamentals here and keep referring to the wrong thing.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

the14thwarrior

same sort of thing happened to me. i got an invoice from <a hospital>, forgot to pay it, in the next 21 days or less as far as i remember. got a letter from same company, threatening etc. i paid, i was not intentionally trying to get away from the bill. i thought it was just outrageous, that i was put off to a debt collection company in less than a month. i called to complain etc. stupid policy. 25 days is not standard i don't think. and i fully agree with the hospitals trying to get their money back, i think its harsh and terrribly frightening for someone to get such a letter in such a short time.

Pat Mustard

Mod note:

Names of parties removed.

Peregrinus

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Apples and Oranges.

You are talkinga about the rights of a CREDITOR

Firstly there is a limit in law to the types of Debt that can be assigned. In essence they must be assignable. Things like mortgages, Loan Agreements etc can be assigned.

Trade Debts cannot.

These debt collection firms are NOT CREDITORS. They buy up trade debts and send filmsy letters which cannot be enforced.

The HSE has no contract to assign. They have a trade debt. It is not capable of assignment.

There's lots of fancy law on this I could refer you but its a waste of time when you cannot even grasp the basic fundamentals here and keep referring to the wrong thing.

Why can't a trade debt be assigned?

Genuine question. Debts are choses in action. Choses in action are in principle capable of assignment, unless there's a specific obstacle - a contract term forbidding it, a statutory prohibition.

So what prevents trade debts being assigned? Quote me the fancy law!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

NUTLEY BOY

On a practical level I think that some hospital accounts bods almost do this sort of thing by rote.

I attended a public hospital A & E with a note in my G.P.'s own fair hand which I handed to the ambulance crew who handed it to the hospital staff who handed it to the triage nurse read who read it back in front of me. Guess what ? I got a bill for €100 within a week. Told the accounts department to sort themselves out..

I am uneasy about ignoring a debt collector's letter. I would prefer to simply reply to it once - as per Samuel T. Cogley - and indicate that the matter was settled with the hospital directly and immediately and that it ends there..

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Incognito

It appears that trade debts can be assigned in certain circumstances.

Excellent judgment here of Mr Justice Edwards.

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0/6D82CC04726FBCB780257B9C0049D2B7

I'm going to write an article on this area now. Will post a link when it's completed.

Lollymcd

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I will contact the debt collector to make sure they are aware that the bill was never in arrears/overdue.

Apologies for naming the hospital and debt collector Pat Mustard, I had a quick read through the forum guidelines before posting and must have missed that bit!

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Mod note:

Names of parties removed.

:):)

hullaballoo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It appears that trade debts can be assigned in certain circumstances.

Excellent judgment here of Mr Justice Edwards.

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0/6D82CC04726FBCB780257B9C0049D2B7

I'm going to write an article on this area now. Will post a link when it's completed.

Make sure to acknowledge the fine contributions in this thread.