Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

team_actimel

biZrb wrote: »

Such a heartbreaking case. I do feel for Alans family (not anymore than I do for Clodagh's), I'm sure it must horrible knowing a family member was such a monster.

Well said. Alan's family also lost 3 grandchildren/nephews/cousins and a sister-in-law. They are suffering as much as Clodagh's family. My thoughts are with all of them.

robbiezero

livedadream wrote: »

did you read the post? he was abusing his wife and controlling the kids allegedly in regards to religion.
her family have asked for donations and more awareness be made of domestic violence and domestic issues other than just violence (things like controlling finances, access to own phones free time etc)

Yes I read the post. The questions I asked were not answered in it.
I am just interested. I have not really read that much in a long while about the case and I had not realized that they had established the reasons behind the murders.

jimmycrackcorm

political analyst wrote:

Considering that the priest who said the funeral Mass was a friend of Hawe, wasn't it a conflict of interest for him to say the Mass? Shouldn't he have passed on the responsibility to another priest?

Was it public knowledge at the time that Hawe was a wife beater? AFAIR metal health issues was assumed asset the time and it only came out after this want the case.

There are lots of other cases of filicide for example where there is empathy due to underlying mental health issues.

livedadream

robbiezero wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

did you read the post? he was abusing his wife and controlling the kids allegedly in regards to religion.
her family have asked for donations and more awareness be made of domestic violence and domestic issues other than just violence (things like controlling finances, access to own phones free time etc)

Yes I read the post. The questions I asked were not answered in it.
I am just interested. I have not really read that much in a long while about the case and I had not realized that they had established the reasons behind the murders.

''you said what was he doing to them'' the post you commented on sais he was abusing them, i wasnt aware you needed the ins and outs of what abuse is....
The inquest was put on hold, there is no offical final answer but her mother and sister have been very clear in the interviews they have done and the requests they have made.

robbiezero

livedadream wrote: »

''you said what was he doing to them'' the post you commented on sais he was abusing them, i wasnt aware you needed the ins and outs of what abuse is....
The inquest was put on hold, there is no offical final answer but her mother and sister have been very clear in the interviews they have done and the requests they have made.

Sorry, I wasn't aware there is only one single form of abuse.

Summer wind

I couldn't believe it and always thought it was wrong to bury him in the same grave as his wife and three lovely boys. It's completely unforgivable what he did to his family. On a day like today with the sun shining to think of where those lovely children and their mother are is horrible. I'm glad he's been moved.

El_Duderino 09

kfallon wrote: »

murpho999 wrote: »

No I'm not just don't think there's all this need for calling him scumbag etc, and reading comments on other fora for him to be thrown in the sea or dumped.

Just find that OTT.

Yeah tbh scumbag is a bit much for a man who butchered his helpless wife & children alright :rolleyes:

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the man wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health albeit the wife and child had nothing to do with it. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

livedadream

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

political analyst wrote:

Considering that the priest who said the funeral Mass was a friend of Hawe, wasn't it a conflict of interest for him to say the Mass? Shouldn't he have passed on the responsibility to another priest?

Was it public knowledge at the time that Hawe was a wife beater? AFAIR metal health issues was assumed asset the time and it only came out after this want the case.

There are lots of other cases of filicide for example where there is empathy due to underlying mental health issues.

it wasnt public knowledge about the abuse until a few weeks after the funerals.  from what i've gathered there was an inckling from the mother but had never been openly discussed until she did an interview with her other daughter and discussed how things in Ireland go on behind closed doors that arnt discussed and how domestic violence can be more than just physical abuse. 'It as noted in the interview that he was not an ill man who suffered years of torment and actual quote from the interview:
''Let me be perfectly clear here, Alan Hawe was not a man suffering from mental illness who broke down in the end with tragic circumstances. Alan Hawe was a controlling, manipulative man, who appeared to those who knew him to be the perfect teacher, neighbour, husband and father.''
he was a bully and a cold blooded murderer and needs to be remembered as such

kfallon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy?

livedadream

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it.  All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy?

i think the poster believes that Alan was a victim of mental illness so therefore non compos mentis when the act occurred, therefore removing his guilt.

the timeline and facts of the case would disgree but each to their own.

El_Duderino 09

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy?

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

kfallon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!

blue note

livedadream wrote: »

to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had,  it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

Where did you hear that? I remember various things being speculated at the time, but to be honest I got tired of everyone going around in circles and tuned out here. But I don't remember anything more than speculation in relation to prior domestic violence.

El_Duderino 09

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

livedadream

blue note wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

to be fair i think it was pretty clearly outlined at the time that it wasnt mental health issues that he had,  it was that he was a wife beater who was about to be outted so to prevent the fall from grace killed him family. its a bit unfair on people who have actual health health issues to lump this guy in with them.

Where did you hear that? I remember various things being speculated at the time, but to be honest I got tired of everyone going around in circles and tuned out here. But I don't remember anything more than speculation in relation to prior domestic violence.

ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

Lollipops23

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

I don't see him as a victim. He murdered 3 innocent kids and his wife, who died trying to protect her children.

He was a selfish coward and nothing more.

livedadream

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

You've some neck to call him a victim I tell ya!

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

who had a mental illness? and can you pass on a link to the information,  this is a topic im studying at the moment and would be interested to know where the info of his mental illness comes from.

Lollipops23

livedadream wrote: »

ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

I thought Clodagh's sister had said the priest bullied the family into burying him with the others. And when they came to their senses weeks later, they realised how awful it was.

tayto lover

Great news.
I've always said that he shouldn't have been buried with the victims.
If they were my grandkids he wouldn't have been in the first place. That's for sure.
Brilliant. I knew the family were not thinking straight at the time or were influenced by the priest. Should never have been buried with them.

robbiezero

livedadream wrote: »

ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

So where did you get the wife beater info?

SnakePlissken

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it. All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy?

I'm classing all 4 as victims to some extent or another.

Your sense of morality is just as wrong as your grasp of simple mathematics.

January

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

Except he wasn't mentally ill.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I'd be inclined to hold back the judgement on the family for burying him with his victims in the first place seeing as they'd just lost five family members suddenly and violently. The narrative that it was a tragedy out of nowhere rather than the culmination of years of abuse would be far easier to process, especially with next to no time to think it over.

I'm sure everyone saying it was a disgrace and an insult or whatever would have been happy to say that to their faces at the time, or even now and aren't just passing lazy judgements on people in a situation they'll luckily never have to endure. Sure.

livedadream

Lollipops23 wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

I thought Clodagh's sister had said the priest bullied the family into burying him with the others. And when they came to their senses weeks later, they realised how awful it was.

i heard it spoken about but i never saw or heard that interview so cant comment. seems to be now that they applied in march to have him moved and relations between the in laws are non existent due to the disagreement over his burial.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

He committed a horrible crime.

"No, he was mad."

How do you know?

"Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."

livedadream

robbiezero wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

ive posted a few pages back on it, the mother did an interview here she discussed wanting a voice for Clodagh and domestic violence, this was a few weeks after the funeral when the preliminary results of the investigation were released to the family. something obviously showed up in that as they wouldnt have buried him with them if they'd known.

So where did you get the wife beater info?

read the interview her mother and sister gave. it details the issues she was experiencing

Woodhenge

livedadream wrote: »

who had a mental illness? and can you pass on a link to the information,  this is a topic im studying at the moment and would be interested to know where the info of his mental illness comes from.

Is there evidence of prior physical or domestic violence? I don't remember hearing about any. It seems from the previous posts that the only 'proof' of this is that the family asked for donations to a domestic violence charity? That is not surprising since this was a disgusting and pre-planned incident of domestic violence. Where is the info about old injuries coming from?

This is welcome news all the same. Imagine having to see that name every time you wanted to go and grieve or just be with the children or Clodagh. Just the thought that he was lying there as well would be discomforting I would imagine.

El_Duderino 09

January wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

Except he wasn't mentally ill.

How could we possibly know that? The evidence is the murder suicide. I don't like the guy and I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him were he alive. Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

He committed a horrible crime.

"No, he was mad."

How do you know?

"Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."

Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.

January

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How could we possibly know that? The evidence is the murder suicide. I don't like the guy and I wouldn't want to go for a pint with him were he alive. Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

Because he left notes. His mother in law and sister in law have come forward and said he abused their daughter/sister. His final act of abuse was to murder them all rather than have it come out that he wasn't the squeaky clean pillar of the community he was thought to be.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, it's easy to pay lip service to mental health but it's another thing to actually deal with the reality.

He committed a horrible crime."No, he was mad."How do you know?"Only a madman would commit such a horrible crime."

Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.

livedadream wrote: »

kfallon wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We all pay lip service to mental health but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different story. I should think anyone can see that the mad wasn't in his right mind when he did it.  All 4 are victims of mental health. I'm just glad this issue didn't affect me but I don't see the point in slagging off any one of the victims in this tragedy.

Who slagged off the 'victims' in this tragedy?

i think the poster believes that Alan was a victim of mental illness so therefore non compos mentis when the act occurred, therefore removing his guilt.

the timeline and facts of the case would disgree but each to their own.

I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem

groovyg

Interview from Clodagh Hawes mom and sister back in December which say Clodagh was a victim of domestic abuse hence why they were raising money for Women's Aid

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/what-alan-evil-theres-no-8967033

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/family-to-set-up-refuge-in-memory-of-murdered-clodagh-and-sons-35493842.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warm-loving-bright-and-capable-mother-and-sister-of-tragic-clodagh-hawe-move-to-help-women-living-in-fear-35265105.html

Relations between the two families have deteriorated

robbiezero

groovyg wrote: »

Interview from Clodagh Hawes mom and sister back in December which say Clodagh was a victim of domestic abuse hence why they were raising money for Women's Aid

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/clodagh-boys-never-stood-chance-9367017

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/what-alan-evil-theres-no-8967033

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/family-to-set-up-refuge-in-memory-of-murdered-clodagh-and-sons-35493842.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warm-loving-bright-and-capable-mother-and-sister-of-tragic-clodagh-hawe-move-to-help-women-living-in-fear-35265105.html

Relations between the two families have deteriorated

Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

erica74

s4uv3 wrote: »

Thousands upon thousands of people have mental health issues and manage to not murder their entire immediate family.

And plenty of people with mental health issues do commit murder and serious acts of violence.
I'm not saying Hawe did suffer from mental health issues, the anecdotal evidence seems to suggest otherwise, however, a person can suffer from mental health issues and have voices in their head telling them to murder their loved ones and they act on those commands. For example, severe cases of post natal depression can leave a woman believing the best thing to do is murder her baby. Many people, who do not understand mental health issues properly, would label a woman, who murdered her baby while suffering from severe PND, as a disgusting monster.

groovyg

robbiezero wrote: »

Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.

robbiezero

groovyg wrote: »

Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.

Sorry, not saying you did. Other posters have said that.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.


I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem

No, horrible abusive controlling ****heads sometimes annihilate their families; as do people with serious mental health problems. It's pretty clear in this case that he was in the former category.

Some people with mental health problems are compelled to steal, physically attack gardai, roar abuse at strangers on the street. It doesn't mean that everyone who does those things gets a pass.

El_Duderino 09

groovyg wrote: »

robbiezero wrote: »

Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

Where did I call him a wife beater? I just posted links as people were saying he was mentally ill but her family are saying the opposite.

Mental illness and domestic violence aren't mutually exclusive. Familial Murder suicide is highly correlated with both.

El_Duderino 09

Paisleigh Weak Peace wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah I see your mistake I never said he didn't. I think he committed a horrible crime. I also think it's fairly clear this was a mental health issue.


I never said anything about removing guilt. He did it. Everyone knows that.

The opposite logic seems to be at play. People with mental health issues are to be pitied. I can't pity this man. Therefore he didn't have a mental health problem

No, horrible abusive controlling ****heads sometimes annihilate their families; as do people with serious mental health problems. It's pretty clear in this case that he was in the former category.

Some people with mental health problems are compelled to steal, physically attack gardai, roar abuse at strangers on the street. It doesn't mean that everyone who does those things gets a pass.

I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?

From the things that you typed in your posts.

Lady Spangles

The fact that he ended up being buried alongside his victims in the first place is quite staggering, so this is long overdue.

What's less surprising (but still saddening) is that this idea was the brainchild of a priest. Has the Catholic Church any sense of decency left, I wonder?

Anyway, RIP to the victims who're finally free of the man who murdered them.

robbiezero

robbiezero wrote: »

Where does it say that he was a wife-beater?

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Lollipops23

January wrote: »

His final act of abuse was to murder them all rather than have it come out that he wasn't the squeaky clean pillar of the community he was thought to be.

I'm curious as to how it was going to come out? Like had Clodagh told someone?

El_Duderino 09

Paisleigh Weak Peace wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I never said anything about giving anyone a pass. Where is that notion even coming from?

From the things that you typed in your posts.

Not once did I say his guild is diminished or he should get a 'pass'. I did say the opposite but whatever you're having yourself.

idnkph

murpho999 wrote:

Either way all the comments about 'rot in hell' and him being cowardly and disgusting actually show a complete misunderstanding of mental health issues which he clearly suffered from and no I'm not making excuses for him.

I think there is a difference between mental health issues and someone who was very calculated in the murder of his wife and children.
He didn't want to be outted for the domestic abusing sociopath that put his family through a horror what nobody could ever imagine.
With this type of spineless waste of air all that matters to them is what people think of him. It was always about his ego. He never cared for or loved his family. All he cared about was himself.
There is no making excuses for that kind of person because they know right from wrong.
At least now that lovely woman and her 3 amazing kids can finally rest in peace.

robbiezero

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Agreed.

end of the road

Lady Spangles wrote: »

The fact that he ended up being buried alongside his victims in the first place is quite staggering, so this is long overdue.

What's less surprising (but still saddening) is that this idea was the brainchild of a priest. Has the Catholic Church any sense of decency left, I wonder?

an idea which (with the greatist of respect) both families chose to go along with. the idea that somehow they were "bullied" or all else to go along with it doesn't wash with me i'm afraid. i believe it's simply people looking for something to try and rationalise why the original decisian was made because they don't agree with it and they want to blame the priest.
the original decisian was the families alone to make and they made it. we have a duty to respect it even if one disagrees with it. we have a duty to respect the decisian made to move him also, which i hope was made on the agreement of both families.

tayto lover

end of the road wrote: »

an idea which (with the greatist of respect) both families chose to go along with. the idea that somehow they were "bullied" or all else to go along with it doesn't wash with me i'm afraid. i believe it's simply people looking for something to try and rationalise why the original decisian was made because they don't agree with it and they want to blame the priest.
the original decisian was the families alone to make and they made it. we have a duty to respect it even if one disagrees with it. we have a duty to respect the decisian made to move him also, which i hope was made on the agreement of both families.

Don't agree with you on this one.
The events of today back up my argument. I think the family was coerced into burying them together and were not strong enough or confused at the time to object BUT they have seen the light since.

tayto lover

Candie wrote: »

Domestic abuse often includes, but is not limited to, physical violence.

Many victims say that emotional abuse is much worse.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Familial murder dioxide is a fairly stone cold case of a mental breakdown.

You say that we are not dealing with mental health, but then you use vague terms like "stone cold case of a mental breakdown". What exactly do you think Hawe was suffering from? Why do you think that?