How would Ireland cope with a '7/7' style attack?

jeanjolie

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

What do you think the aftermath in regards to our attitudes and the governments attitudes towards legislation would be? Would the Gardai be viewed as a serious police force compared to how we view them now?

Pyridine

jeanjolie wrote: »

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

These types of attacks would never happen in Ireland. Just picture the scene...some guy waiting for a bus or train all ready to do the deed. He just didn't realise that the bus or train will be 45mins - 1 hour late and so he just goes pop himself at some stop in the back of beyond as the timer runs out.

Everyone complains about how unreliable the public transport is in Ireland but it is actually a cunning plan by the authorities!

Dravokivich

Well for a start we can investigate and act on funding for these organisations. Which appears to be rather successful lately.

LithiumKid1976

we would just sit back and wait for them to tire themselves out of all the killings or run out of ammo, then our Gardai can run up and pepper spray them when they are at the weakest point...

Hector Bellend

we'd phone Joe Duffy and blame it in an innocent third party

Dravokivich

LithiumKid1976 wrote: »

we would just sit back and wait for them to tire themselves out of all the killings or run out of ammo, then our Gardai can run up and pepper spray them when they are at the weakest point...

They've only run out of ammo after they've blown themselves up. You'll be better off sending in a few cleaners.

murpho999

I often wonder about this.

I remember after the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris and how the guys were hunted down.

There were loads of police helicopters in the sky.

AFAIK the gardai only have two.

There's an armed respose unit but how big is it.

Ireland is ripe for attack and I wonder how it hasn't happened as I think we're poorly equipped to deal with it.

steddyeddy

I suppose how we coped with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The largest loss of life in a single day in the troubles. The D/M bombings were a result of collusion between security forces and terror groups. It would be hard for a group like ISIS to top that if they were working in isolation.

NIMAN

Simple answer is, we don't know how well we are prepared. Hopefully we will never have to find out.

I don't get those who use this as a stick to beat the Gov up with. We are no more ripe or ill prepared than a lot of nations are. Consider nations with a similar population to ours.

New Zealand
Turkmenistan
Oman
Croatia
Costa Rica

How well are they prepared?

Its hardly fair to expect a small neutral nation like Ireland with little or no defence spending to be as well equipped as France, Germany, UK, Spain etc. They are big nations.

osarusan

If somebody with allegiance to ISIS wants to rent/hijack/etc a car or truck and plough into a load of people, that is easily done, and there is very very little than could be done to stop it.

A few such incidents on busy shopping streets in major towns cities, or at sports venues, or outside nightclubs late at night, could bring the country to a standstill.

But they don't happen - which makes me think that the number of ISIS members/operatives in Ireland and Europe is probably dramatically overstated.

Dr Crayfish

I can't see it happening. No point in wasting a load of money on it a la Bear Patrol in The Simpsons. You would think we'd have plenty of experience anyway from the North situation and previous terror incidents here.

Omackeral

Shure look, be grand.

Omackeral

How long did the Love Ulster riot go on for back in 2006? That was more or less a load of scumbags acting the b*llox and robbing footlocker. They wrecked the gaff... and the authorities were ready for trouble on that day. Imagine now it's not just Anto and Deco but an operation with a semblance of organisation and a few automatic weapons at their disposal. Whether they hit on a random afternoon or a packed out Paddy's Day parade, we'd probably be sitting ducks.

keeponhurling

steddyeddy wrote: »

I suppose how we coped with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The largest loss of life in a single day in the troubles. The D/M bombings were a result of collusion between security forces and terror groups. It would be hard for a group like ISIS to top that if they were working in isolation.

Well that's worrying, given as the Barron Report concluded

• Department of Justice files just vanished into thin air (all of them)
• Gardai files went missing
• The Gardai were deemed to have stopped their investigation early
• The cabinet showed a lack of concern towards catching the bombers.

One would hope that 40 years on we would deal with it better, but who knows

Wile E. Coyote

jeanjolie wrote: »

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

I'm pretty sure procedure and preparation plans for possible terrorist attacks aren't released to the pubic for 'general knowledge' purposes.

gandalf

To have an attack on our public transport system we need to have a public transport system in the first place!

biscuithead

What exactly do you mean by "preparation"?

Do you mean "preventing" it, like what didn't happen in London?

The_Kew_Tour

Nobody will ever touch us

We are Irish

Everyone loves us.

Ole ole ole!

wakka12

There are some defences in place, I remember a year or two ago there was a military training exercise in dundrum shopping centre. Also the cost of keeping a well trained anti terror defence is not worth it here as the chances are unlikely. In other countries like france its needed and worth the cost because it seems to happen a lot and it reassures the population to some extent

Richard Hillman

osarusan wrote: »

If somebody with allegiance to ISIS wants to rent/hijack/etc a car or truck and plough into a load of people, that is easily done, and there is very very little than could be done to stop it.

A few such incidents on busy shopping streets in major towns cities, or at sports venues, or outside nightclubs late at night, could bring the country to a standstill.

But they don't happen - which makes me think that the number of ISIS members/operatives in Ireland and Europe is probably dramatically overstated.

I think peoples problem is that if there was a "Lone Wolf" attack (and they never ever turn out to be a lone wolf) it would take probably about 10-15 minutes before somebody with a gun arrives. You could go on a shooting or a driving spree in Dublin CIty Centre for yonks before an armed garda arrived.

Richard Hillman

I know there is a lot of stuff about costs but anybody that has been around the likes of France, Belgium and Italy of late will tell you that there are armed soldiers at most trainstations, shopping centers and tourist areas.

I dont think it is too much to ask to have a couple of armoured cars at the top of O'Connell Street and Grafton Street. Then an extra vehicle at Lansdowne Road or Croke Park for large events. It is not exactly breaking the bank to have 3 soldiers at each area that I have pointed out.

osarusan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think peoples problem is that if there was a "Lone Wolf" attack (and they never ever turn out to be a lone wolf) it would take probably about 10-15 minutes before somebody with a gun arrives. You could go on a shooting or a driving spree in Dublin CIty Centre for yonks before an armed garda arrived.

Sure, I agree, the lack of armed police would definitely make any immediate response less effective, and mean that an attacker is less likely to be stopped (in comparison to most other countries, where police are routinely armed).

I wonder, for example, if there was an attack in the centre of Ennis, just how long it would take for any armed police to arrive. The ERU has a number of bases, the locations of which are secret. Are there any police weapons anywhere in the county?

biscuithead

Whether there is someone with a gun or not rarely if ever affects the outcome significantly. Changing the whole fabric of a society to preempt something hypothetical and extremely unlikely is not they way we should live our lives.

Besides what good is a gun against a bomb that has just gone off?

hmmm

After a couple of thousand deaths, we'd all happily accept the leader of ISIS as our deputy head of government, while listening to a spokesperson for ISIS telling us all to "move on" and how these things happen as part of a war.

Oh wait, we only expect the Protestant community to do this.

biscuithead

3 soldiers and a few armoured cars will prevent what exactly? Nothing.

fixXxer

I always thought the bridges across the liffey would be an easy point to hit if someone wanted to attack Ireland. Heavy damage to O'Connell Bridge and a few of the other big ones and the city would be in chaos for months after.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

biko

jeanjolie wrote: »

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

Nice try Abdullah but do yer own fecking planning!

Your Face

We'd give them the dole.

oppenheimer1

hmmm wrote: »

After a couple of thousand deaths, we'd all happily accept the leader of ISIS as our deputy head of government, while listening to a spokesperson for ISIS telling us all to "move on" and how these things happen as part of a war.

Oh wait, we only expect the Protestant community to do this.

What?

topper75

fixxxer wrote: »

I always thought the bridges across the liffey would be an easy point to hit if someone wanted to attack Ireland. Heavy damage to O'Connell Bridge and a few of the other big ones and the city would be in chaos for months after.

Yeah.

But living 5 counties away as I do, I'd probably experience up to 30 seconds of mild disappointment and then carry on with what I was doing.

#extremistdubwatch

Grandeeod

I would assume the Army Ranger Wing would also be deployed along with the ERU.

fixXxer

topper75 wrote: »

Yeah.

But living 5 counties away as I do, I'd probably experience up to 30 seconds of mild disappointment and then carry on with what I was doing.

#extremistdubwatch

Yeah but Dublin is the capital and has the highest concentration of people and therefore the most obvious target.

#extremistshoulderchipwatch

Grandeeod

wakka12 wrote: »

There are some defences in place, I remember a year or two ago there was a military training exercise in dundrum shopping centre. Also the cost of keeping a well trained anti terror defence is not worth it here as the chances are unlikely. In other countries like france its needed and worth the cost because it seems to happen a lot and it reassures the population to some extent

We do have a well trained anti terror defense and have done since the 1960s. It was actually ramped up in the 70s because of international terrorism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdaBNQRo3I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Ranger_Wing

Richard Hillman

biscuithead wrote: »

3 soldiers and a few armoured cars will prevent what exactly? Nothing.

It will shorten an attack. We have already mentioned that.

Beta Ray Bill

We would not respond well on a Social or Reactive level

If it were a Gun Spree like it was in Paris
It would take a Garda a number of minutes to respond and get the response force in place to stop them.
I'd imagine they'd run out of ammo before the Garda could provide an effective response.

If it were an explosive/bomb attack, It would take the Ambulance service time to react
The hospitals are in a mess at the moment, they wouldn't react well either.

Our reaction as a nation however would go either one of two ways
1) People wouldn't care (hell of a lot of millennials out there).
2) There would be a revenge attack at a local mosque (Cause all Muslims are terrorists righ?)

We are a small country though and we don't war with anyone the way France, England, Russia and America do.
It is unlikely we'd be attacked.

BattleCorp

If I was Mr. Isis I wouldn't do a 7/7 style attack. Blowing up a few busses would generate fear in the population but life wouldn't change much. They could do much worse.

Imagine this scenario.

Mr. Isis goes into rural Ireland where there are plenty of primary schools with only one or two teachers. It'd be pretty easy to kill 20 or 30 children and the two teachers with a knife. Even easier with automatic weapons. Imagine the terror that could be caused if that happened. And to make things worse, the terrorist could easily get away. That's real terror.

How do you prepare for an attack like this? Intelligence will stop some attacks before they happen, if we are lucky but realistically we are totally unprepared for any style of terrorist attack. And lets be real about this, being prepared won't stop these attacks either.

It'll be our turn one day and all we can do is hope that it won't happen for a long time and when it does happen, it'll be small scale.

biscuithead

"It will shorten an attack"

Could you perhaps talk through how this might happen because all I can imagine is that your 3soldiers might only have any effect is if they have advance knowledge of a gun attack in their immediate vicinity. What use would they be if some guy walked onto a packed luas and set off a bomb? Seems to me that you are inventing a response and then attempting to dream up an attack to fit that response.

osarusan

biscuithead wrote: »

"It will shorten an attack"

Could you perhaps talk through how this might happen because all I can imagine is that your 3soldiers might only have any effect is if they have advance knowledge of a gun attack in their immediate vicinity. What use would they be if some guy walked onto a packed luas and set off a bomb? Seems to me that you are inventing a response and then attempting to dream up an attack to fit that response.

Not every attack (such as a bomb on the LUAS) but if you had somebody attacking pedestrians with a knife or a car, would you prefer that the police who were there/arrived first were armed with guns or not?

antodeco

Omackeral wrote: »

Imagine now it's not just Anto and Deco .

Allah Akbar

Fratton Fred

BattleCorp wrote: »

If I was Mr. Isis I wouldn't do a 7/7 style attack. Blowing up a few busses would generate fear in the population but life wouldn't change much. They could do much worse.

Imagine this scenario.

Mr. Isis goes into rural Ireland where there are plenty of primary schools with only one or two teachers. It'd be pretty easy to kill 20 or 30 children and the two teachers with a knife. Even easier with automatic weapons. Imagine the terror that could be caused if that happened. And to make things worse, the terrorist could easily get away. That's real terror.

How do you prepare for an attack like this? Intelligence will stop some attacks before they happen, if we are lucky but realistically we are totally unprepared for any style of terrorist attack. And lets be real about this, being prepared won't stop these attacks either.

It'll be our turn one day and all we can do is hope that it won't happen for a long time and when it does happen, it'll be small scale.

Better still, why not just attack the European head office of one of the world's largest companies. There's plenty to choose from.

Banjoxed

If there was a 7/7 style attack the usuals would end up protesting outside the Israeli embassy. Yay us.

Grandeeod

What are we actually talking about here?

If a terrorist attack took place in the likes of Dublin, it would be just like the UK, France, Germany etc. It would happen.

Are we talking about our security reaction? If we are, then it should be well handled, because despite the usual jokes about the Gardai and Army, the ERU and ARW have loads of guns, vehicles and more than two Garda helicopters available to them.

chocksaway

Croke park on all ireland sunday would be a prime target I'm sure

SEPT 23 1989

I'm sure the hospitals and morgues would cope very well

biscuithead

Would i prefer if the police responding were armed?

Now you're just drifting into "should the police be armed territory". Your hypothetical knife attack could happen at any time on any giv3n day or night anywhere and simply be a criminal matter. Are the 3 soldiers only to spring into action when it has been determined that your attack is in fact a terrorist attack and not some thug knifing a bloke?

gw80

Grandeeod wrote: »

What are we actually talking about here?

If a terrorist attack took place in the likes of Dublin, it would be just like the UK, France, Germany etc. It would happen.

Are we talking about our security reaction? If we are, then it should be well handled, because despite the usual jokes about the Gardai and Army, the ERU and ARW have loads of guns, vehicles and more than two Garda helicopters available to them.

I suspect you are right, there was a house fire up the road from me last summer, no one hurt, wasn't that bad a fire, so i brought the young lad up to see the fire engine, and an unmarked garda car turned up, the plain clothes detective got out but the turned back to reach into the car for something and you could see a hand gun on his hip, he obviously carries it the whole time.

Barry Badrinath

jeanjolie wrote: »

It's general knowledge that this country has virtually no preparation in the event of something like the London bombings occurring in Dublin.

Completely ignoring the fact that preparing for an event does not equate to stopping an event from happening.

Your first sentence completely undermines your statement. Just because you and largely the general public have no knowledge of security provisions, does not mean the country has no emergency planning, protocols or assets to deal with various scenarios.

There is little any countries security services can do to prevent a terror event. They come in all shapes and sizes and are largely undetectible until it is too late.

jeanjolie wrote: »

So if ISIS were to decide and successfully carry out a terrorist attack on our public transportation system, what exactly would it 'look like'?

How long is a length of string?

jeanjolie wrote: »

What do you think the aftermath in regards to our attitudes and the governments attitudes towards legislation would be? Would the Gardai be viewed as a serious police force compared to how we view them now?

I think tighter security controls, increased authority being given to state security services and more tax hikes would be on the cards if a major event occured.

There is realistically not much to stop it happening and tbh, its not really the fault of AGS or any other state service. Low capability attacks can yield large results for terror groups.

biscuithead

I agree with you about the usual jokes about the Garda. They are a fine police force. People talk about how they are useless and incompetent.

Just take one example of many. Lansdowne Road 1995. This could have been another Heysel or Hillsbourough or Charleroi or Bradford. The Garda emptied that stadium like a bathtub, keeping Combat 18 scumbags in place. A fine contingent of Dub and culchie gardai then proceeded to beat the tar out of these **** all the way to the ferries. I even witnessed gardai in their shirts, sleeves rolled up, dishing out a clubbing to the hooligans. No need for belgian or italian guns and tear gas.

Grandeeod

biscuithead wrote: »

I agree with you about the usual jokes about the Garda. They are a fine police force. People talk about how they are useless and incompetent.

Just take one example of many. Lansdowne Road 1995. This could have been another Heysel or Hillsbourough or Charleroi or Bradford. The Garda emptied that stadium like a bathtub, keeping Combat 18 scumbags in place. A fine contingent of Dub and culchie gardai then proceeded to beat the tar out of these **** all the way to the ferries. I even witnessed gardai in their shirts, sleeves rolled up, dishing out a clubbing to the hooligans. No need for belgian or italian guns and tear gas.

I was there that night and despite our shock at it happening, it was handled very well.

Ralf and Florian

steddyeddy wrote: »

I suppose how we coped with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The largest loss of life in a single day in the troubles. The D/M bombings were a result of collusion between security forces and terror groups. It would be hard for a group like ISIS to top that if they were working in isolation.

The government and Gardai response to the D & M bombings was a disgrace.