cyclist and truck incident in smithfield this morning

Danbo!

Deedsie wrote: »

Eh, I drive a car and I can manage getting around safely without stoping on a cycle lane when turning onto another road.

A lot of his vids featuring "nosers" are around town and ranelagh, small side roads and parked cars can make it difficult/impossible to see up and down the road without nudging out a little. I see it repeatedly on my commute and it's just one of those things. I'd rather move out of the cycle lane around a bonnet than have someone risk pulling out without getting a proper look, especially when they're turning right.

Alek

The more expensive the noser's car seems to be, the somehow closer I am tempted to move to it... I almost brushed a Jaguar yesterday

(I don't mind genuine spots where a long car can't see shoite unless moving out a bit... but its a minority)

AndrewJRenko

Blowfish wrote: »

I really wish there was better training for the Gardai when it comes to cycling safety. Even the Rules of the Road disagree with him (p188):

I don't know the area well, but if it was on my commute, I'd be sorely tempted to keep a printout of P188 in my panniers to be able to whip it out and rub his nose in it if required.

crosstownk

CycleDub, in my opinion, is an antagonist. Yes, he maybe right in some instances but what is he trying to achieve? All he's doing is reinforcing the divide between motorists and cyclists. If I was to address every motorist on every transgression, my commute would take forever. Maybe I'm just not dedicated to the cause enough.

Maybe he should sign up to become a reserve Traffic Corp Garda.

Wishbone Ash

crosstownk wrote: »

CycleDub, in my opinion, is an antagonist. Yes, he maybe right in some instances but what is he trying to achieve? All he's doing is reinforcing the divide between motorists and cyclists.....

100% agree - I can't see anything positive in his actions. None of us are perfect. And why does he have to inform them that they'll be on YT or "I'm reporting you". Sounds like a 6 year old.

It's a pretty sad way to live your life. I manage to get around with very few altercations with others.


(...and I know I shouldn't say this but that awful 'train spotter' voice.......:eek:)

Lumen

Deedsie wrote: »

I agree that a lot of CycleDubs video complaints can be a bit pedantic, however he does highlight just how ****ty it is for cyclists out there.

I've been cycling in Dublin most days for the past 8 years or so. Not once did I think "this is ****ty". Not even when I was starting out.

Cycling in Ireland is great. I love it, with no reservations whatsoever.

CycleDub comes across as a miserable little spa'.

Chuchote

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What about this one

/lovindublin.com/opinion/why-i-hate-dublin-city-cyclists

or this one

(etc)

This website has form. It has been a platform for bashing cyclists.

Perhaps we should copy the approach of this Seattle group, who have been successful in their advocacy for safer neighbourhoods:

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/02/dont-say-cyclists-say-people-on-bikes/385387/

A recent post by PeopleForBikes blogger Michael Andersen notes that starting in 2011, a new group called Seattle Neighborhood Greenways has made a conscious effort to change the way they talked about biking, walking, and pretty much everything else to do with the way their city’s streets are used by human beings.

“Though the group made no secret of their biking advocacy, they didn't brand themselves as biking advocates,” writes Andersen. “They branded themselves as neighborhood advocates.”

SNG also developed a list of new ways to talk about their concerns and promoted it in handy chart form. Instead of “cyclists,” they suggest, use “people on bikes.” Instead of “drivers,” “people driving.” Instead of technical traffic-engineering terms such as “pedestrian/hybrid beacon,” say “safer ways to cross busy streets.” Replace “pedestrians” with “people walking.”

OleRodrigo

Deedsie wrote: »

I'd broadly agree with your point. I also love cycling, it's great no arguments there. However the way some others react to cyclists or don't have any consideration for cyclists or the two times I have ended up laying in the gutter because of motorists actions or the serious injuries and deaths that have happened to cyclists have left me feeling ****ty about getting around in Ireland.

Hearing the expression "bloody cyclists" as if our only aim in life is to inconvenience others.

Cycling in itself is not ****ty, how we are perceived by some, the lack of funding for safe cycling infrastructure, the potential dangers as a result of the layout of some our junctions etc etc makes me feel a bit shiite at times.

Most of the 'antagonism ' towards cyclists happens online in forums, BTL comment areas and trashy media programs . In the real world, most people are respectful towards other fellow human beings.

Riding confidently and correctly on the roads makes a difference to how you are treated. Same goes for driving. This seems to lost on the likes of CycleDub.

That said, there are some dangerous areas throughout Dublin city center that I would recommend anyone starting off to avoid. It seems these flash points of speeding traffic are spreading as more controls are applied to routes throughout the city. Examples of those are stretches on the south quays, from Capel St Bridge over to Islandbridge, Patrick St, Fairview, Smithfield to the Quays, Con Colbert Rd, Parnell Square West, D'Olier Street. You have to ride assertively and defensively in these areas, which is IMO something beyond what should be expected of utility cycling.

My wife doesn't cycle and we live in the city center. I wouldn't like her to start in this environment, as it is currently. Its not the Luas works either, because its not possible to accelerate directly around the works. Rather, its the bottleneck they help create which subsequently speeds up traffic once there is a clear run.

'Going forward' there will be more and more restrictions in the city center which, IMO, is bad news for cyclists around the city center peripheral roads, unless speeding traffic is properly policed.

AndrewJRenko

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Most of the 'antagonism ' towards cyclists happens online in forums, BTL comment areas and trashy media programs . In the real world, most people are respectful towards other fellow human beings.

The online hate does leak into the real world occasionally, with potentially disastrous consequences;

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/cyclist-hater-boasted-about-causing-fall-that-caused-riders-death/news-story/2af2d32a4f6d4d2261d5f2077c377012

But it also leaks into every discussion about cycle facilities, cycle lanes, cycle laws and all those other things that impact safe cycling.

OleRodrigo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The online hate does leak into the real world occasionally, with potentially disastrous consequences;

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/cyclist-hater-boasted-about-causing-fall-that-caused-riders-death/news-story/2af2d32a4f6d4d2261d5f2077c377012

But it also leaks into every discussion about cycle facilities, cycle lanes, cycle laws and all those other things that impact safe cycling.

That link is behind a paywall. I've never cycled in Oz but I did live there for a while. I think their variety of fruitcake has more aggressive tendencies than their Irish counterparts, so you cant extrapolate how things are here from what happens there.

I think most online discourse amounts to little more than frivolous entertainment and time wasting. Unless its about elections, then things get a bit more real..( https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/apr/05/donald-trumps-data-mining-advisers-to-meet-liberal-mps-in-canberra )

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

CycleDub comes across as a miserable little spa'.

True, but MiserableLittleSpa just doesn't have the same ring to it as CycleDub :pac:

AndrewJRenko

OleRodrigo wrote: »

That link is behind a paywall. I've never cycled in Oz but I did live there for a while. I think their variety of fruitcake has more aggressive tendencies than their Irish counterparts, so you cant extrapolate how things are here from what happens there.

I think most online discourse amounts to little more than frivolous entertainment and time wasting. Unless its about elections, then things get a bit more real..( https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/apr/05/donald-trumps-data-mining-advisers-to-meet-liberal-mps-in-canberra )

https://1london.net/sydney-man-who-killed-cyclist-guilty-of-manslaughter/

And this kind of stuff is happening in Ireland. based on the reference to 'the guards'

https://www.facebook.com/leroy.kulczynski/posts/10154541519951546

Chuchote

Again, I say, radio jocks and opinion writers are largely to blame for this, giving permission to - even encouraging - immature people to find and harm a hate object in ordinary people going about their business on bicycles, giving them abusive names - "MAMIL" and the like.

OleRodrigo

MAMIL is ok. Fred is ok. Elephant a**e is ok too.

Once they don't call us triathletes. That's taking it too far.

greenspurs

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://1london.net/sydney-man-who-killed-cyclist-guilty-of-manslaughter/

And this kind of stuff is happening in Ireland. based on the reference to 'the guards'

https://www.facebook.com/leroy.kulczynski/posts/10154541519951546

I think that happened near Ennis ? :mad:

Pinch Flat

I got into a heated argument with some one on Saturday night last, before the latest tragedy. He steadfastly stuck to his guns that the only way to address cycling safety is to licence, insure and tax cyclists - the "full house" of of ignorance that seems to be all too prevalent out there. His argument was that cycling is dangerous and, like other dangerous activities that require a licence - guns and drugs (?) his example - cyclists should be licenced before using the roads. A complete straw man argument and it's depressing to see the same argument on social media with the latest tragedy in Cork.

That we have raised a whole generation of motorists that think they in affect own the public infrastructure, that the safety issues don't lie with them and that cyclists are there as some sort of freeloader / guest / pest is truly worrying. I see the attitudes taking a whole generation to change - we need to be educating our school children early at 10 - 12 that the roads are there for all to use and that pedestrians and cyclists are the most vulnerable. Graduating straight from the back seat of mammy's SUV on the 300 meter school run to owning a car at 17, we're skipping the intermediate steps that are prevalent in other cyclist friendly countries.

I'd go as far as to say pictures of injuries inflicted by cars - along the lines of cigarette packaging warning of cancer - should be considered. People are truly ignorant of the mayhem a car can cause to the human body.

ellobee

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

greenspurs

ellobee wrote: »

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

.... life ?

The Gardai havent time to 'punish' motorists that are driving on the public roads that are passing close, overtaking dangerously and abusing people that are cycling.
Dont see how a licence could work at all. Might keep motorists happy tho..... "Do yaa have a licence for that?"

ED E

ellobee wrote: »

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

There is legislation already in place to deal with misbehaving cyclists. Its never used. What would be magically difference about a licence that would magically fix Garda attitudes.

ellobee

well currently a guard has no way of knowing if you are giving him your right name and address, with a licence it would be a lot easier for them.

Pinch Flat

ellobee wrote: »

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

Setting aside the fact that there's no other country that licences cyclists on the planet, Ireland would be the first country to do this - some countries had forms of licencing but withdrew them as they were not working. Also around 80% of cyclists are also drivers, so this means you're trying to capture a relatively small amount that are unlicensed - and how are children licenced? the system is unworkable. These points have been discussed many times on this forum.

Other cycling friendly countries address this by having an exam at primary school level - the "verkeersexam" in the Netherlands being an example. This means that all children have had a good basic grounding in school rules / road etiquette. Of course, many more people cycle as well as drive, so this helps changes their attitudes. We have a carcentric "them and us" attitude here, with motorists behaving like petulant school children when we try to limit their speed, behaviour or impacts of their road vehicles that cause injury and death. If more people cycled, they would appreciate what it's like to be on a bike and alter their behaviour when driving.

Lumen

ellobee wrote: »

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

We have compulsory licenses, tax and third-party insurance for drivers because they are driving massive killing machines at lethal speeds. The purpose is to create a regime for protecting other people.

Since cyclists don't hurt other people, this regime is inappropriate, in addition to being counterproductive and impractical.

ED E

ellobee wrote: »

well currently a guard has no way of knowing if you are giving him your right name and address, with a licence it would be a lot easier for them.

He can detain you to identify you, same as a car. It would just add a second offence of not carrying a licence.

Still doesnt fix him not stopping you.



I've commuted by bike for 14 years. I have been stopped once, and that was an info campaign (locks and hivis).

ArmaniJeanss

ellobee wrote: »

well currently a guard has no way of knowing if you are giving him your right name and address,

Is there evidence that this is an issue?
I'd say 99.9% of people give their real name/address when asked by a garda - only a tiny amount of people would want to turn a small offence of RLJing or whatever into the much more serious offence of giving a false name.

magicbastarder

AFAIK, if a garda is suspicious that you are providing false details when asked name/address, etc., he or she can confiscate your bike.

ellobee

Lumen wrote: »

We have compulsory licenses, tax and third-party insurance for drivers because they are driving massive killing machines at lethal speeds. The purpose is to create a regime for protecting other people.

Since cyclists don't hurt other people, this regime is inappropriate, in addition to being counterproductive and impractical.

So a cyclist has never caused an accident or hurt anyone, Thats good to know:rolleyes:

ThisRegard

ellobee wrote: »

but I can see the merits in licencing, I

You can? Explain?

Pelvis

We need to encourage more people to get out of their cars and onto a bicycle. That's the whole point of the Bike2Work scheme.

Licensing is quite possibly the dumbest idea imaginable.

mr spuckler

ellobee wrote: »

OK Tax and insurance maybe a step too far, but I can see the merits in licencing, I mean anyone can cycle a bike on the roads without having a clue to the rules of the road, some kind of theory test with a licence issued on passing, and then similar to a motor licence some kind of point system for people who break the law, it would then be a lot easier for the guards to punish cyclists who constantly break the rules, also cyclists would probably be less likely to break the rules if they thought they might lose their licence

it might have already been said but the first step should always be to look at what's causing injuries and deaths. so are cyclists breaking the rules of the road injuring or killing people? there are no stats on injuries to say they are and we know they're not killing people.

meanwhile 200,000 drivers get penalty points for speeding every year, last year saw 188 people killed on our roads in collisions involving vehicles, with (iirc) 7 of them cyclists and there is at best a loose attitude towards rotr among many drivers. on top of that it's estimated that there are 150,000 uninsured drivers on our roads.

btw, all of those people have been deemed fit to drive and provided with a license.

there are plenty of existing rules and regulations applying to all road users that if enforced would significantly impact on road safety for all of us much quicker than trying such an idea which would only serve to reduce cycling numbers, with all of the negative societal effects that entails.

Pinch Flat

ThisRegard wrote: »

You can? Explain?

It's a common belief among motorists that licencing cyclists will magically reduce injuries and deaths on our roads, the thinking being presumably that it works so well for cars.