Is it worth it anymore..... ?

Macy0161

No

CramCycle wrote: »

It should just be blanket, there is no need to differentiate. Just sit on the roadside and go after everyone who passes breaking a rule, be they cyclist or motorist. There needs to be major reform in regards legislation and paperwork for the gardai, as well as a huge drive in Garda recruitment or even contracting out some roles to private contractors (ANPR for Tax/Insurance, red light running, mobile phone use etc.).

I 100% agree. At commuting times, no reason cameras couldn't be used for cyclists RLJ too.

However, aren't camera's for speeding just "shooting fish in barrel" - speeding so accepted that it's ok to complain about getting done for breaking the law! And sure Tax and Insurance - rather than ANPR's or check points, why aren't they going after "real" criminals?

magicbastarder

Macy0161 wrote: »

I 100% agree. At commuting times, no reason cameras couldn't be used for cyclists RLJ too.

licence plates for cyclists!

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

licence plates for cyclists!

If you don't remember what I look like after one look at me, a number plate won't help your memory

Macy0161

No

CramCycle wrote: »

If you don't remember what I look like after one look at me, a number plate won't help your memory

But we all look and act the same. All clad in lycra, breaking red lights after bunny hopping off the pavement....

magicbastarder

plenty more where this came from:

Compared with car users the estimated annual change in mortality of the Barcelona residents using Bicing (n=181 982) was 0.03 deaths from road traffic incidents and 0.13 deaths from air pollution. As a result of physical activity, 12.46 deaths were avoided (benefit:risk ratio 77). The annual number of deaths avoided was 12.28.

http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d4521

I love Sean nos

Atari Jaguar

godtabh wrote: »

People should be encouraged to share the road

I hate that phrase. The road is not being shared. One party is using a minimum of 2m of a road at all times, the other is using less than 1m and is only asking not to be killed while doing so.

07Lapierre

No

Just wondering how many people who are going to stop cycling are also going to Stop going on Holiday (plane crash)?

Look, cycling is healthy, efficient and an economical form of transport.

I accept it's not for everyone and has risks, but there are things you can do to make your cycle a little safer:

1: be more assertive! Don't cycle in the gutter. Take the lane at pinch points.
2: make eye contact with motorists when your manovering (e g turning right)
3: be patient on your commute. (Don't take risks)
4: obey the rules of the road..stop at traffic lights etc.
5: if you can, choose a route that involves less right hand turns, roundabouts, junctions etc.

Finally, do you really want to go back to rush hour traffic and/or public transport?

jon1981

No

By any chance, do we have details of the 7 deaths? circumstances ...etc. Typically the inquest is meant to reveal this detail, how soon is an inquest likely to take place after a death?

I'm interested because I want to know if there are lessons to be learned here for both Cyclist and Driver alike.

Furthermore, let's put things in perspective. How many dates per cyclist on the road did we have in 2012,2013...2016. I'm not saying deaths don't matter but we need to keep it in perspective, it may be no worse given there are both many more cyclists and motorists now sharing the road. I would hate if we saw a rapid decline in cycling due to misinformation.

mr spuckler

07Lapierre wrote: »

Just wondering how many people who are going to stop cycling are also going to Stop going on Holiday (plane crash)?

or driving. 188 people killed on irish roads last year.

07Lapierre

No

jon1981 wrote: »

By any chance, do we have details of the 7 deaths? circumstances ...etc. Typically the inquest is meant to reveal this detail, how soon is an inquest likely to take place after a death?

I'm interested because I want to know if there are lessons to be learned here for both Cyclist and Driver alike.

Well what we do know is All seven involved a cyclist and a vehicle.

We don't need expensive Tribunals, reports to tell us that there is an almost total lack of enforcement of existing Road traffic laws! Enforcement of existing laws for all road users would go a long way to improving things.

Crocked

I've been thinking along the lines of the OP lately as well.

I've seen absolutely nuts driving in the last 12 months especially. Only the other week coming down off the Wicklow gap in two separate incidents within less than 5 minutes of each other where it was only the actions of the biker in the first one and the other car in the second that avoided serious head on collisions. At a minimum saved the bikers life and probably catastrophic injuries to the occupants in the second incident.

A farmer was within 2 or 3 inches of taking out half our group in a club spin a few weeks previous to that.

I could add at least another dozen incidents which only through sheer luck and the reactions of the people they were about to hit mean that I haven't had to either witness someone being killed, or being killed myself.

Pretty much every time I get on the bike now it crosses my mind if I'll make it home to see my family.

I cycle on quiet enough roads but you still see a sizable amount of dangerous driving, it'll only get worse now in the summer.

I skipped a spin on Tuesday, a lack of time was part of the issue but I also didn't fancy going out as it was a nice evening and all the gob****es would be out driving too, so I went for a run.

Sad times as the Donald would say

Eircom_Sucks

On my way to work today 15km drive , 4 cyclists blatently going through red lights at 3 major junctions , while there idiot drivers dont assume the cyclist are not at fault , if these 4 were creamed by cars it be all " poxy drivers etc , not poxy cyclists

Annie get your Run

No

Parchment wrote: »

I agree but honestly it wont make a difference. I hate saying that but i am realistic about it. Cyclists will always be a minority and therefore wont have pull.

Think about things that were made illegal - using phones when driving, i see it ALL THE TIME. Nobody cares, randomly enforced - fines dont deter people.

Cyclists are paying with their lives - and nothing will change anytime soon. I hate being a debbie downer but i dont really want to gamble with my life anymore, i dont cycle for pleasure any longer. I commute and thats it.

They managed to radically change attitudes in The Netherlands. The same thing was happening there, cyclists (and pedestrian) deaths due to increased numbers of cars on the road and someone in power took control and made the changes that were necessary. I don't accept it can't be done, I do unfortunately accept it may not be done due to the lack of back bone in our leaders but that's not going to stop me trying!

At least you are still commuting. I think the more cyclists on our roads the more normalised it will become, people will eventually learn how to drive on roads that have many cyclists but hopefully no one else dies while we wait for them to figure it out

jon1981

No

07Lapierre wrote: »

Well what we do know is All seven involved a cyclist and a vehicle.

We don't need expensive Tribunals, reports to tell us that there is an almost total lack of enforcement of existing Road traffic laws! Enforcement of existing laws for all road users would go a long way to improving things.

Ok we all experience bad behaviour on the roads, also accidents happen. What I want to know is are there things the cyclist were doing that were also bad behaviour? No lights, helmets, positioning, ear phones...whatever! I just would like some analysis.

I'm a daily cyclist and I see more bad cyclists than good cyclists going through the Dublin city centre every day, it boils my f**king blood.

07Lapierre

No

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

On my way to work today 15km drive , 4 cyclists blatently going through red lights at 3 major junctions , while there idiot drivers dont assume the cyclist are not at fault , if these 4 were creamed by cars it be all " poxy drivers etc , not poxy cyclists

Couldn't agree more! some real nutcases out there on bikes! hence my comment regarding enforcement of road laws for ALL road users and my recommendation that cyclists obey the ROTR.

jive

jon1981 wrote: »

I'm a daily cyclist and I see more bad cyclists than good cyclists going through the Dublin city centre every day, it boils my f**king blood.

Does my head in too as they give a bad rep to other cyclists but at the end of the day I've never seen a bad cyclist harm anyone tottering along in the city centre. I don't agree with their behaviour but it's 100% a lesser evil.

Regardless, I'd like to see the guards actually enforce the law on all road users. I commute ~10km on the N11 to the city on my bike and in the half hour it takes I could tot up an endless amount of offences.

Annie get your Run

No

jive wrote: »

Does my head in too as they give a bad rep to other cyclists but at the end of the day I've never seen a bad cyclist harm anyone tottering along in the city centre. I don't agree with their behaviour but it's 100% a lesser evil.

Regardless, I'd like to see the guards actually enforce the law on all road users. I commute ~10km on the N11 to the city on my bike and in the half hour it takes I could tot up an endless amount of offences.

100% agree with this too although I do think they are causing harm indirectly by giving motorists the ammunition they need (I'm not suggesting that it makes it okay, I'm just saying if cyclists obeyed the ROTR then what reason would there be to close pass etc other than being a d*ckhead).

greenspurs

[QUOTE=





Love it. Mouthing off on a public forum is one thing but positive action is another. Well done to you.[/QUOTE]

Yes, i need to see what they think or will say.

The stretch of road for my first near one - the N24 has caused the death of 10 people in a few years due to bad layout of junctions, and the 2+1 lane structure ( separated by metal wire) and Minister Ross was invited to come down and take a look.
He hasnt come yet.
If cyclists could email their TDs and Councillors about the issue, MAYBE something could/will be done.

CramCycle

jon1981 wrote: »

Ok we all experience bad behaviour on the roads, also accidents happen. What I want to know is are there things the cyclist were doing that were also bad behaviour? No lights, helmets, positioning, ear phones...whatever! I just would like some analysis.

I'm a daily cyclist and I see more bad cyclists than good cyclists going through the Dublin city centre every day, it boils my f**king blood.

There most certainly cyclists of all those types on Irish roads, no use in denying that. Interestingly, some one pointed out to me that at least for most of this year, all of the cyclists that were killed in vehicular/cyclist collisions were helmeted, withe either hi vis or lights or both. Not sure if this still holds true. I know last year this was not true, but in one of those cases a man was cycling without lights in the dark, home from a public place. Interestingly the death was blamed on the lack of a helmet rather than where the person had spent most of the evening and the lack of lights but that is a discussion for another thread.

I suppose the long and short of my post is that while there is some awful behaviour by cyclists on the roads, fitting in with your description, which should be acted upon by the Gardai. It would appear that none of these actions are causing death or serious injury when another vehicle is involved (this year).

lucernarian

Worth what?

jon1981 wrote: »

Ok we all experience bad behaviour on the roads, also accidents happen. What I want to know is are there things the cyclist were doing that were also bad behaviour? No lights, helmets, positioning, ear phones...whatever! I just would like some analysis.

I'm a daily cyclist and I see more bad cyclists than good cyclists going through the Dublin city centre every day, it boils my f**king blood.

People really have to stop obsessing about high vis jackets, the law already mandates lights at night or reflectors at a minimum during the day. Likewise with helmets, not going to stop you being killed by a bloody tractor. Not a legal requirement and shouldn't be either. I don't get the relevance of earphones tbh, the bigger risk is using the phone while listening to music and cycling, to change song or whatnot.

Not sure what the positioning thing is about. In a nutshell, I see nothing wrong with at least 3 of the 4 things you mentioned.

I certainly don't appreciate having to dress up in aviation orange to protect myself against the metal box and the driver within on their phones...

CramCycle

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

On my way to work today 15km drive , 4 cyclists blatently going through red lights at 3 major junctions , while there idiot drivers dont assume the cyclist are not at fault , if these 4 were creamed by cars it be all " poxy drivers etc , not poxy cyclists

I think you will find in general around here, no one assumes fault. That is the job of contributors to the likes of the Indo or the Journal, sometimes it is also the journalistcolumnist who does this leap of faith.

Macy0161

No

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

On my way to work today 15km drive , 4 cyclists blatently going through red lights at 3 major junctions , while there idiot drivers dont assume the cyclist are not at fault , if these 4 were creamed by cars it be all " poxy drivers etc , not poxy cyclists

Last night, commuting by car, I had to wait when I had a green light for 9 or 10 cars to continue to break what must have been a clear red. Does this mean I can go back to making assumptions?

greenspurs

I'm not suggesting that it makes it okay, I'm just saying if cyclists obeyed the ROTR then what reason would there be to close pass etc other than being a d*ckhead).

Yes, but motorists seem to enjoy being a d*ickhead.
In my examples, thats 3 in 20 mins !

And in the hometown of Bennett and Kelly too ! :rolleyes:

We are cheap stories for the media, and broadcasters. They seem to have turned motorists completley against cyclists, as i have never experienced such hostility on the roads until recently.
Its not going to improve until somebody in a position of power decides to champion the cause of the cyclist.
i wont hold my breath .....

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

Last night, commuting by car, I had to wait when I had a green light for 9 or 10 cars to continue to break what must have been a clear red. Does this mean I can go back to making assumptions?

MOD VOICE: No one is making assumptions, nor should they.

07Lapierre

No

CramCycle wrote: »

If you don't remember what I look like after one look at me, a number plate won't help your memory

Wanna be a pretty big number plate too! How many of us can read and memorise a car reg plate that does a close pass? only for helmet cams, i doubt many people can.

magicbastarder

i've been known to pull in and enter it into my phone before i can forget it.

mr spuckler

greenspurs wrote: »

Its not going to improve until somebody in a position of power decides to champion the cause of the cyclist.
i wont hold my breath .....

agreed, given that our taoiseach is an avid cyclist yet i recall few if any public utterances by him on the subject.

smacl

No

Dcully wrote: »

Its bad when your kids of 11 and 14 are asking you not to cycle today.

I'm always encouraging mine (13 and 17) to cycle more and the bike has become a main form of transport for my older girl. My wife worries about the lot of us by times and I'm hoping to remedy this by getting her to cycle a bit more. We're lucky enough in terms of cycle lanes for the kids and me just getting out onto back roads very quickly. For the kids, particularly the younger one, I plan the routes out quite carefully, and get her to treat junctions like a pedestrian. I also worry about my kids cycling by times, but what can you do? Outside of exercise, I also think the independence it affords them is hugely beneficial.

07Lapierre

No

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've been known to pull in and enter it into my phone before i can forget it.

I'm sure a motorist would do the same. They'd never try to enter it onto their phone while driving!

Mooooo

The solution really is more cycle lanes ideally totally separate from roads from town/city centres to the outskirts etc. Obviously the cost and indeed space required makes it a big job to try and push. Until that is done enforcement and education is what needs to be pushed. Observation in motorised transport and cyclists/ pedestrians etc. Dunno if it's been measured but the amount of people walking and cycling with headphones on at busy periods and indeed pedestrians with heads down on smartphones must have increased the amount of accidents