N4 - Mullingar to Rooskey [route options published]

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352175#Comment_120352175

It is ridiculous to be designing projects which you don't even have the money to design, which is exactly what is happening here. They absolutely don't do that anywhere else. The solution is properly profiled and realistic spending plans and only progressing that which can realistically be delivered in the foreseeable future.

To get around the problem of limited funding but lots of projects needing funding, we are drip feeding funding to to keep projects on lists to keep people satisfied. They will crawl along the planning process for the rest of the decade with nothing meaningful happening.

Next year, we will likely spend more on designing road projects than actual construction. That would absolutely be ridiculous. It just creates a bigger backlog of projects looking for increased but still limited funding later. It is likely that some of these designed projects will sit on the shelf waiting for hundreds of millions of funding to be made available for so long that they will become out of date, permissions expire and have to be designed again. It has happened before. The other risk is that the mega project doesn't pass PSC gateways and the really necessary part of the project gets dragged down by the nice to have parts.

The way to avoid that would be to phase the project, basically just build a part of it for which absolutely needs to be done and is small enough to fit within funding envelopes. If it ends up like that, it would have been better to have pursued that part of the project earlier as a standalone.

Your comparison to having to upgrade the junctions on the M50 is in no way relevant. There is no way that 40km of new N4 is going to be built in one go anyway. The design now will likely be split at points where it touches the existing N4, no reason those sections couldn't be looked at separately while still allowing for further construction later. The initial part of the M18 finished at a junction with an extra bit of motorway built so the future section was just a continuation of that. Budget has to be one of the main considerations, this project is already falling victim to budget limitations and it is only looking for relatively small amounts of funding now!

KrisW1001

Designing schemes piecemeal is a really bad idea. And I never said that construction would be all in one go: actually, my point was the opposite - design the whole thing first, then divide it into buildable projects, so we're not disagreeing there. That way you don't end up building redundant sections of road that you very soon bypass (like spending millions on a brand-new N9 alignment at Moone and Timolin, then as soon as it was open, designing a motorway that would bypass that bypass).

You can't phase construction of a project if you haven't designed all of it.

L1011

The Moone Bypass got 9 years (and 9 days - both openings are recent enough to have online articles about them) as being the N9 at least.

The N4 Enfield Relief Road had under 3 years! Kinnegad's N6-only relief road got 7.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358492#Comment_120358492

The motorway network was designed and built piecemeal and it turned out alright. You just decide where to begin and end a particular section, then end it in a suitable way to later extend while having an appropriate junction with the existing road.

In the case of the N4 Mullingar to Rooskey, after the main route selection, they should select part of it for planning and delivery now. Bringing the whole lot through design is pointless as a) the funding isn't available to even design all of it and b) the funding won't be available to build it for a long time, probably into the next decade.

spacetweek

It's abundantly clear that large scale road projects will be in a holding pattern nationwide until after the departure of Eamon Ryan in 2025.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370646#Comment_120370646

Ryans departure will make no difference, the annual budget under the next minister still wont be sufficient to deliver a project like this plus all the others. There this already several billion € worth of projects for construction from 26 on but the annual budget will only be several hundred thousand. Those "in a holding pattern" aren't getting built any time soon regardless of the minister of the day.

spacetweek

Budgets change quickly along with political priorities.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380203#Comment_120380203

Not to the extent which would be required. Between 2020 and 2026, we will have commenced 4 €100m+ projects, there are about 10 such projects (not including N4 Mullingar-Rooskey) planned to commence between 26 and 30. Some of them are several hundred million € projects and the M20 would be €1bn on its own. And there are also lots of smaller but significant projects to consider as well (e.g. Slane bypass, Ardee bypass, etc.).

Basically, even with a big bidget increase, the next minister will struggle to get all the current pipeline started, nevermind adding more projects. For context, the roads budget for next year is to be €145m, at least €500m will be needed each year just to get through what is intended to be built.

Standard Toaster

Any movement on this project?

All I found was this article:

https://www.midlands103.com/news/midlands-news/n4-midlands-project-drop-in-the-ocean-after-transport-underspend-robert-troy/

People in the midlands are frustrated by the Department of Transport's €100m underspend when just two per cent of that figure, would be enough to progress the the N4 Mullingar to Roosky project.

That's what Longford Westmeath TD Robert Troy is saying after It was confirmed by both the Taoiseach and Tainaste that any underspend could be redirected to progress the N4 road upgrade.

The Fianna Fáil rep also discussed the discontent over a lack of support for transport for people with a disability.

Deputy Troy says the cost of the road is a fraction of the underspend:

L1011

No, and it won't ever be a priority with the current Minister.

KrisW1001

That €100 M underspend also includes a pile of public transport and active transport projects that aren’t moving. There seems to be a reluctance to spend money from the current Minister, regardless of purpose.

road_high

Sadly not any time soon. There’s no drive or will to build new roads- this is all would up in the various excuses and knots. In the 2000s there was a determined priority from the top to develop good roads. It’s pretty much the opposite now, any excuse not to build them

marno21

https://www.longfordleader.ie/news/home/1319775/longford-td-joe-flaherty-budget-confirms-funding-won-t-be-an-issue-for-n4-upgrade.html

..

Standard Toaster

https://www.longfordleader.ie/news/home/1415554/longford-td-confirms-funding-for-critical-n4-upgrade-is-imminent.html

Funding of in the region of €2 million to take the long awaited N4 upgrade to the next stage will be included in this year’s TII roads announcement.

cartoncowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730280#Comment_121730280

Seems this years road allocations are being leaked by all the TDs, with Frank Feighan making similar noises about the N17. The TDs love claiming credit, wonder if there is an election coming :-)

Standard Toaster

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/embattled-n4-road-project-sees-1-4-million-euro-boost-236989

Calls have been made at every level with local Councillors, Senators and TDs pushing for movement on the scheme.

1.4 million euro has been allocated to the long sought upgrade of the N4 Mullingar to Longford Bypass project.

Work on the project was paused over 17 months ago, with fears the design process and works would not materialise.

Calls have been made at every level with local Councillors, Senators and TDs pushing for movement on the scheme.

As part of the TII Road Project allocations for 2024, the funding has been allocated to Westmeath County Council to refine the route selection process.

Reacting to the news today, Longford Westmeath Fianna Fail TD Joe Flaherty says the TII support will see major progress towards a final route selection.

Speaking to Let's Talk today, Deputy Flaherty says the 1.4 million euro will keep the project rolling

Standard Toaster

I thought the route was already selected.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121808984#Comment_121808984

On the current generation of plans, the corridor was, final route not

Whatever there exists from the late 00s plans is irrelevant now due to different regulations

Standard Toaster

https://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2024/05/08/route-selection-for-n4-upgrade-can-go-ahead/

The selection of the route for the N4 Mullingar to
Longford upgrade can now go ahead, following an allocation of €1.4m. At a
meeting last week, members of Westmeath County Council welcomed the
allocation.

They were told that the draft documentation
on the route selection is being finalised to allow the consultation
process to commence. If more funds are available, the detailed design
process can begin.

The allocation is included in the €12.3m
allocated for national roads and greenways in the county. It includes
€4.7m for improvements, €5.5m for greenways, and €543,634 for
maintenance.

National Transport Authority grants of €4.5m
have also been announced for various projects in the county; the biggest
is Saunders Bridge in Mullingar, which is getting over €1.2m, and next
are Athlone footpath and cycleway improvements for six strategic routes
on €730,000.

The allocation for regional and local roads
is reduced, at €13.5m, but presenting the figures to the council, Jimmy
Dalton, head of finance, said that if non-recurring specific improvement
grants are taken out, they are generally in line.

Mr Dalton pointed out that the allocations
will be supplemented as the year progresses and further allocations will
be received under the TII national road pavement improvement and
maintenance programmes.

Jp177

Post from Seamus Butler Longford county councillor on FB:

"Breaking news!
I have been advised that Tuesday 2nd July 2024 is proposed as the date for presenting the N4 Emerging Preferred Route Corridor to the Councillors."

Anyone else hear this or have more details? I wonder will this be 100% the final proposed route i.e. it won't change? And local people can be free of the uncertainty (I realise it may never happen, but it may and that, in and of itself, is uncertain).

Standard Toaster

Just this nugget a few days ago but nothing new

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2024-05-16a.146

Pete_Cavan

Update email sent out yesterday;

The second public consultation for the project, ‘Route Corridor Options’, was held in February/March 2021. Due to funding restrictions, work on the project slowed, however the project is now nearing completion of the Phase 2 (Option Selection) process.  The Route Corridor Options have been appraised in accordance with TII Guidelines and the new Transport Appraisal Framework (TAF). All previous work has also undergone a review and has been updated to align with changes in policy and standards, including TAF. An Emerging Preferred Route Corridor has now been identified.

 …

On Tuesday 2nd July 2024, we will be launching our virtual public consultation via our project website: www.n4mullingartolongford.ie 

This will present further information on the project and will include an interactive mapping tool that will allow you to examine the proposals in further detail.  Alternatively, a series of in-person consultation events will also take place in Longford, Mullingar and Edgeworthstown.  Further information on these events is set out below:

·        Longford Arms Hotel N39 FK26:                     Tuesday 2nd July 2024                   2pm-8pm

·        Mullingar Park Hotel N91 A4EP:                      Wednesday 3rd July 2024              2pm–8pm

·        Edgeworthstown Library N39 F7Y8:                 Thursday 4th July 2024                 2pm-8pm

Should be interesting…

Standard Toaster

If you were a betting man, which one?
Route Corridor Option 1 (Navy) looks to me as the obvious choice.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305674#Comment_122305674

That was pretty much the route that was selected the first time round, around 2010, I believe. If chosen, that would take it to within a km of my new home. Not ideal but I'd imagine that the road surface would be quieter than what exists currently between Edgeworthstown and Longford.

spacetweek

A kilometre is fairly far for a road to be from your house, but I suppose it depends on the topography.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310628#Comment_122310628

The local road is about 100m from the house but it's a very very quiet road. The current N4 and nearest R road are both over 2km away but I can still hear the hum of traffic if there's a light wind from the direction of either road, during the otherwise quiet night time.

Rulmeq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122310628#Comment_122310628

We lived about 950m from the M4 (the bad section that they haven't resurfaced yet as they are waiting to upgrade it I guess) the noise levels would entirely depend on the wind direction. We were south of it, so only heard it on the days the wind would blow from the north. On the days we could hear it though, it didn't matter about anything else, there were other houses, trees etc in between us, but we could hear it as if we were on top of it (fortunately there were maybe a dozen days a year when we got northerlys), all other times it was as if it wasn't there.

SeanW

I just had a look over the maps and one thing I noticed is that the Yellow and Teal routes offer a Northern bypass of Edgeworthstown. That is, with these routes, people coming from the Granard/Cavan direction looking to get to the N4 would not have to go through the town anymore, as traffic from the South on the N55 can now avoid the town using the existing relief road to go onto the N4.