The Aftermath of Collisions

AndrewJRenko

There will be a Coroner's Inquest for any of these deaths, though it can be months or years afterwards. I'd be concerned that Coroners frequently go beyond their professional training (medical or legal) to make comments or recommendations that are victim-blaming - helmets, hi-vis and that nonsense - rather than putting the responsibility on motorists to control their vehicles.

Mycroft H

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There will be a Coroner's Inquest for any of these deaths, though it can be months or years afterwards. I'd be concerned that Coroners frequently go beyond their professional training (medical or legal) to make comments or recommendations that are victim-blaming - helmets, hi-vis and that nonsense - rather than putting the responsibility on motorists to control their vehicles.

Are coroners inquests viewable online?

ED E

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was referring to scuba accidents.
however, air crash investigations take months, if not years

Not entirely true. Prelim reports come out quickly, remember R116's prelim and safety notices are out already from a March 14th crash.

jimmycrackcorm

I've posted it before but the NRA really need to do an advertising campaign to educate on the deadly mix of cyclist, trucks and junctions.

Their current advertising seems to be to tell drivers not to get annoyed about groups of cyclists travelling in pairs..

Unless you happen across reporting on a particular inquest, there is no good source of information about causes of collisions.

ED E

Mycroft H wrote: »

Are coroners inquests viewable online?

19. Can the report of an inquest be obtained?

Copies of the post-mortem report and depositions taken at inquest including a copy of the verdict are available from the coroner?s office on payment of the statutory fee, once the inquest has concluded. It should be noted that inquest papers are generally not available prior to the inquest being held.

The Freedom of Information Act 1997 does not apply to coroners inquests and inquiries. Documents are available under the Coroner?s Act 1962 [see also S.I. No. 429 of 2000 (Fees and Expenses)].

Danbo!

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Yes, it would be difficult for family and friends but education is more important. Every plane crash is investigated and published clearly so others can learn. This is true even when it's solely human error.

There was a motorcyclist in the UK killed when a car turned across his path and hit him. His mother released the helmet cam footage to highlight the dangers to others, both motorists and motorcyclists.

Very tough thing to do for her, but imo far more effective than any scripted road safety ad.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-29084417

Given that a couple of the recent fatal/serious crashes were on my commute, I'd like to know if there's anything at all I can learn from them. Using a camera myself, and after reading the story above, I've told the missus to release the footage if anything ever happens, even if it's a mistake I've made. Though I suppose it's an easy thing to say without having experienced anything like it.

ganmo

what happened to the white bike campaign?

AndrewJRenko

Mycroft H wrote: »

Are coroners inquests viewable online?

No, but most high profile incidents, like road deaths, are reported in the press.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I've posted it before but the NRA really need to do an advertising campaign to educate on the deadly mix of cyclist, trucks and junctions.

Their current advertising seems to be to tell drivers not to get annoyed about groups of cyclists travelling in pairs..

It is the RSA you're thinking of, not the NRA, which actually doesn't exist any more.

But I'm not sure that advertising campaigns like this are actually effective in achieving behavioural change.

average_runner

If you look at the accident with the Volkswagon yesterday. Six people in the car, which means one was not wearing a seat belt at least. Of course its not highlighted, we go with the sympathy route

ED E

ganmo wrote: »

what happened to the white bike campaign?

I asked that before in a previous thread. Policy/Procedure isnt precisely clear and you definitely would not want to upset the bereaved family but IMO they're an important reminder that should be erected.

May take on the Templeville road one myself. Would love input on when is too soon.

1bryan

ED E wrote: »

I asked that before in a previous thread. Policy/Procedure isnt precisely clear and you definitely would not want to upset the bereaved family but IMO they're an important reminder that should be erected.

May take on the Templeville road one myself. Would love input on when is too soon.

I would suggest you don't do that. It's up to the family to decide how their loved one is remembered.

ED E

1bryan wrote: »

I would suggest you don't do that. It's up to the family to decide how their loved one is remembered.

Sorry if that wasn't clear, with the families permission of course.

1bryan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There will be a Coroner's Inquest for any of these deaths, though it can be months or years afterwards. I'd be concerned that Coroners frequently go beyond their professional training (medical or legal) to make comments or recommendations that are victim-blaming - helmets, hi-vis and that nonsense - rather than putting the responsibility on motorists to control their vehicles.

let's be clear on what an inquest actually is here, because people are confusing them with trials.

After a fatality, a garda investigation takes place. The resulting report gets sent to the DPP who decides whether criminal charges are to be brought or not. If they are, it's put forward to the criminal courts. If the DPP considers that it was an 'accident' (ie: no charges should be brought), it goes forward to the coroner's court.

When a fatality occurs, the family are issued with a temporary death cert. This cert can initially be used to get access to some of the assets of the deceased. For example, if the deceased was the main earner in the family, bills will still need to be paid, etc.

The temporary death cert can not be used to claim from life insurance policies. The reason for this is that there is no official 'Cause of Death'. That is the role of the inquest - to determine the cause of death - NOTHING else. Certainly not to apportion blame.

An inquest will, to a large extent, follow the same procedures as a regular court case. A jury is sworn in, witnesses testify, etc, but the end result is to decide what goes in the 'Cause of Death' field on the death cert. For example, you'll hear things in the news about verdicts of 'Death by Misadventure', 'Accidental death', etc.

Basically, life insurance policies can't be claimed if a person took their own life.

At the end of an inquest, recommendations will be made. In my experience those recommendations come from the jury, not the coroner (who acts as judge). If any frustrations should be vented, it should be as a result of inaction on those recommendations.

Sadly, there was a cycling related fatality in my immediate family. I was involved in the inquest and saw this all first-hand. The recommendations that were made were reasonable and did offer some degree of comfort. However, nothing was ever done about it.

Inquests are a total waste of time, tbh.

AndrewJRenko

1bryan wrote: »

let's be clear on what an inquest actually is here, because people are confusing them with trials.

After a fatality, a garda investigation takes place. The resulting report gets sent to the DPP who decides whether criminal charges are to be brought or not. If they are, it's put forward to the criminal courts. If the DPP considers that it was an 'accident' (ie: no charges should be brought), it goes forward to the coroner's court.

When a fatality occurs, the family are issued with a temporary death cert. This cert can initially be used to get access to some of the assets of the deceased. For example, if the deceased was the main earner in the family, bills will still need to be paid, etc.

The temporary death cert can not be used to claim from life insurance policies. The reason for this is that there is no official 'Cause of Death'. That is the role of the inquest - to determine the cause of death - NOTHING else. Certainly not to apportion blame.

An inquest will, to a large extent, follow the same procedures as a regular court case. A jury is sworn in, witnesses testify, etc, but the end result is to decide what goes in the 'Cause of Death' field on the death cert. For example, you'll hear things in the news about verdicts of 'Death by Misadventure', 'Accidental death', etc.

Basically, life insurance policies can't be claimed if a person took their own life.

At the end of an inquest, recommendations will be made. In my experience those recommendations come from the jury, not the coroner (who acts as judge). If any frustrations should be vented, it should be as a result of inaction on those recommendations.

Sadly, there was a cycling related fatality in my immediate family. I was involved in the inquest and saw this all first-hand. The recommendations that were made were reasonable and did offer some degree of comfort. However, nothing was ever done about it.

Inquests are a total waste of time, tbh.

It's this kind of Coroners' recommendations that I was thinking about;

http://connachttribune.ie/helmet-might-have-saved-cyclist-from-fatal-injuries-987/

and similar stuff from the UK

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/warning-on-headphones-as-cyclist-ruled-to-have-caused-own-death/

Coroners don't really have the expertise to rule on these matters.

ED E

8th cycling fatality was in fact a pedestrian at time of collision. RIP.

ED E

IMAGES: Photos by Emma Loughran.

Family of Daragh Ryan, the 30-year-old man who lost his life in a recent collision beside the Islandbridge gate to the Phoenix Park in Dublin, said he a was a ?brilliant and kind young man with a bright future?.

His family have placed a ghost bike at the junction where the collision happened last month.

...
http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/26/family-says-daragh-wasnt-just-a-cyclist-as-they-place-ghost-bike-at-islandbridge-gate-to-phoenix-park/

ED E

Female Cyclists in her 60's killed in Cork today. RIP.

magicbastarder

ah crap. RIP.

Terrible news

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0913/904441-cork-rta/

Chuchote

ED E wrote: »

I've heard talk that one of the above may have been reckless behaviour on the part of the cyclist. If thats true it should be publicised a short while after they've been buried. A message like that could be a valuable lesson to everyone heading out of a saturday morning.

I "heard talk" last week that a cyclist had died after a crash on Howth Hill. The story included allegations about the speed shown on his speedometer.
The story was incorrect in every detail except the fact that a van and cyclist had crashed.

check_six

The RTE report of that poor lady who was killed by the tractor yesterday states: "The incident happened on the N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy road near Shanbally at around 1pm, when the cyclist collided with the tractor as both were travelling towards Ringaskiddy."

I just hate that phraseology. As it is written it claims that the cyclist crashed into the back of the tractor and trailer and it is their fault. We discuss this topic a lot, but it still bugs me when normally for a crash involving two motor vehicles 'blame' is carefully not apportioned to either side.

mamax

check_six wrote: »

The RTE report of that poor lady who was killed by the tractor yesterday states: "The incident happened on the N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy road near Shanbally at around 1pm, when the cyclist collided with the tractor as both were travelling towards Ringaskiddy."

I just hate that phraseology. As it is written it claims that the cyclist crashed into the back of the tractor and trailer and it is their fault. We discuss this topic a lot, but it still bugs me when normally for a crash involving two motor vehicles 'blame' is carefully not apportioned to either side.

This also happens with motorcycle crashes