Patient confidentiality underage brother...

jeanjolie

My brother is 16 and started seeing a psychotherapist in December of last year. She told him that whatever he said would be kept quiet but it seems this was a complete lie from the start.

Now, I will admit that some things he says from time to time are quite disturbing however, he is polite in school and trouble and although he's had some serious problems they haven't amounted to anything.

He's shared a few things which she told my parents but the 'worst' according to her was a few weeks ago. He told her about how in 3rd year he jokingly told a classmate that he wanted to rape a Chemistry teacher who the whole class in his year hated and how surprised he was at some classmates disgust. She said that it was necessary to share this with my parents.

Don't see why though. My parents now are in greater distress and frustrated at my brother especially my mother and my brother is now angrier than ever when all he needed was someone to talk to.

He definitely isn't a threat to anyone else or himself. The incident happened a few years ago yet she feels entitled to basically be an unwanted messenger for him. She's honestly wasting our money for some crappy advice given how much we've spent.

I've seen online that one can report psychotherapists who violent this, however given that he's under 18 it may not be illegal or even recognized as an issue.

What do I do?

Airyfairy12

Counsellors and psychiatrists legally have to report anything that could potentially bring harm to the patient or someone else, she probably would have said this to him on his first session and had him sign consent form. She probably understood that it wasnt a serious threat but what he said could be taken very seriously and because he's underage she made his parents aware of what was said.

njs030

Well firstly the majority of people don't find threatening rape funny and it could be quite concerning when a child says things like that. The fact he was surprised at classmates disgust at his comments speaks volumes- it's a bit worrying you don't seem to find it shocking yourself?

As he's under 18 he is still a child and is under his parents care so yes she's allowed to discuss his issues with them especially ones that are of particular concern. She's not discussing his problems with random strangers, his parents are responsible for him.

Op perhaps you should talk to your parents about it all and try to understand why your brother needs help.

jeanjolie

notjustsweet wrote: »

Well firstly the majority of people don't find threatening rape funny and it could be quite concerning when a child says things like that. The fact he was surprised at classmates disgust at his comments speaks volumes- it's a bit worrying you don't seem to find it shocking yourself?

Honestly, it was a joke. Pretty extreme, but nonetheless something harmless.

And let's not forget that this was a spur-of-the-moment thing towards a teacher who a lot of students hated. She hasn't had the best reputation; that's why I'm not at all surprised, however I've told him not to make extreme comments to others in the future.

If he was talking about raping some 16yr old random innocent girl who'd done him no harm then yes I would have a big problem with that, however I believe IMO, it's a different scenario.

boobycharlton

I've hated a lot of teachers, but never heard anyone, or myself considered raping them as a funny or appropriate thing to say.

Therapist has a duty of care, and was definitely right to flag it with his parents. It's an odd thing to say, especially for a teenager.

Airyfairy12

OP I hated school and allot of my teachers and never once made a violent or inappropriate remark about any of them, joking or otherwise its not a normal thing to come out with. It sounds like youre set on defending this lad no matter what and you shout down anyone who draws anything to your attention or points out concerning behaviour. How can you expect him to improve if you keep making excuses for him and his behaviour? Reporting the therapist for bringing something to your attention just shows the lack of responsibility youre taking.

jeanjolie

boobycharlton wrote: »

I've hated a lot of teachers, but never heard anyone, or myself considered raping them as a funny or appropriate thing to say.

Therapist has a duty of care, and was definitely right to flag it with his parents. It's an odd thing to say, especially for a teenager.

I understand what you're saying but being honest how odd is it?

She seems to think that it's just an issue with him being undisciplined i.e lack of parental guidance. She says that spending too much time online is causing this.

I doubted this explanation as I said myself, I know plenty of kids who spend time online and none of them seem to be like my brother in terms of what he says though this does not necessarily mean the issue lies entirely with him.

If you do believe there's a problem here, what could it be and how common do you think it is in young adults/teens?

jeanjolie

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

OP I hated school and allot of my teachers and never once made a violent or inappropriate remark about any of them, joking or otherwise its not a normal thing to come out with.

How abnormal is this really? Have you ever heard about or experienced first hand some friend/classmate who made similar violent/inappropriate comments towards teachers or others when you were in school?

Airyfairy12

jeanjolie wrote: »

How abnormal is this really? Have you ever heard about or experienced first hand some friend/classmate who made similar violent/inappropriate comments towards teachers or others when you were in school?

No I havnt and if I did id have been avoiding the person who said it.

Edit: Just reading your other comment, ive a teenage brother who spends his life online and online gaming, id know his friends well from being in and out of my parents house, they'd never come out with a violent statement like that and if my brother made such a violent and misogynistic 'joke' id be very concerned as would my parents.

slits

A comment like " I'd give a teacher a good slap" sounds normal as a joke from an annoyed student about a teacher but rape sounds odd it could be that he didn't know it would be such an unfunny/awkward joke or he could have actually meant it but you won't know unless he says and he most likely won't if he did.
Your parents should know about things like this so he can be told its inappropriate, he might just not know social boundaries like taboo subjects in conversation. But also a lot of people who commit serious crimes a comment often coming from their relatives would be like what you're saying now "he would never do anything violent".
Try explaining why things are inappropriate/taboo so he understands why not to say or do them.
Hope this helps I often used to do/say inappropriate but people saying why helped. Never really said many violent things just silly things or lack of empathy situations.

Airyfairy12

I wouldnt even think its 'taboo', rape isnt funny and its concerning that he thinks it is and his family doesnt see any problem with that.

njs030

jeanjolie wrote: »

How abnormal is this really? Have you ever heard about or experienced first hand some friend/classmate who made similar violent/inappropriate comments towards teachers or others when you were in school?

No op it's very strange and I went to school in one of the most violent and dangerous parts of London with people who ended up dead or in prison.
Never ever would they think rape was something to joke or laugh about.
Or defend someone who thought it was funny.

Eimee90

jeanjolie wrote:

And let's not forget that this was a spur-of-the-moment thing towards a teacher who a lot of students hated. She hasn't had the best reputation; that's why I'm not at all surprised, however I've told him not to make extreme comments to others in the future.

jeanjolie wrote:

If he was talking about raping some 16yr old random innocent girl who'd done him no harm then yes I would have a big problem with that, however I believe IMO, it's a different scenario.

She hadn't the best reputation????? Can you hear yourself? Your tone and comprehension of his comments is disturbing.

There is no difference between a sixteen year old girl and that teacher. Rape is rape.

She did the right thing reporting the comments to your parents. Stop justifying his behaviour.

Eimee90

jeanjolie wrote:

How abnormal is this really? Have you ever heard about or experienced first hand some friend/classmate who made similar violent/inappropriate comments towards teachers or others when you were in school?

Joking about raping someone is NOT normal.

jeanjolie

notjustsweet wrote: »

No op it's very strange and I went to school in one of the most violent and dangerous parts of London with people who ended up dead or in prison.
Never ever would they think rape was something to joke or laugh about.
Or defend someone who thought it was funny.

Well I agree with you but to be honest, there's no surprise there. Rape and child molestation are usually considered the most 'henious crimes' specifically among macho males.

Funny that I bring that, up. The reason why my brother was taken aback wasn't because of the surprise of his classmates. He sort of understand how rape is a serious issue, the problem was that a classmates said in a surprising tone 'If I saw you do that, I'd beat the **** out of you'.

He's shared this problem with a recently made nurturing' female friend and although she was very concerned, her reaction wasn't one of anger or upset but sympathy and great concern that he didn't do that.

jeanjolie

elsa21 wrote: »

Joking about raping someone is NOT normal.

Okay, what I'm really asking people when I question 'normality' is not whether it's abnormal or not (we've already established that) but whether it's normal is in comparison to the young teens they've met in the past and currently meet.

I need some perspective If I'm to understand how far my brother deviates from normal behaviour of teenagers. Is it common to meet anyone who would express violent ideations towards teachers and/or students. Not constantly but an off remark comment?

Really Interested

jeanjolie wrote: »

Honestly, it was a joke. Pretty extreme, but nonetheless something harmless.

And let's not forget that this was a spur-of-the-moment thing towards a teacher who a lot of students hated. She hasn't had the best reputation; that's why I'm not at all surprised, however I've told him not to make extreme comments to others in the future.

If he was talking about raping some 16yr old random innocent girl who'd done him no harm then yes I would have a big problem with that, however I believe IMO, it's a different scenario.

I am as a rule never shocked by things on boards, but if this is true and this is your true reaction, then I am shocked, not by your brother (that sounds like a guy in need of help) I am shocked by your reaction. People do not make jokes about rape. In fact your brothers friends reaction should tell you all you need to know. Those boys the same age, not liking the same teacher, prob spending too much time on the internet, they all shocked by what he said if his friends react that way that should set alarm bells. While I accept he will not rape anyone he does need help and support not making excuses.

Stheno

jeanjolie wrote: »

Okay, what I'm really asking people when I question 'normality' is not whether it's abnormal or not (we've already established that) but whether it's normal is in comparison to the young teens they've met in the past and currently meet.

I need some perspective If I'm to understand how far my brother deviates from normal behaviour of teenagers. Is it common to meet anyone who would express violent ideations towards teachers and/or students. Not constantly but an off remark comment?

It's completely abnormal to think suggesting raping anyone is ok

slits

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I wouldnt even think its 'taboo', rape isnt funny and its concerning that he thinks it is and his family doesnt see any problem with that.

Sorry poor wording. He said his mother is more so angry with the brother which I find concerning because it could just make out to the brother that rape is only a women topic or a feminist thing so could be disregarded as such making him think even less of it. By the mother and female psych only concerned about it he may end up brushing it off as "boys will be boys" which would be disastrous to say the least.
Something worth mentioning as well is that where is the lack of innocence in the teacher? Are only 16yr old girls innocent? Rape is not ok to joke about in regards of anyone OP not just people you would deem "innocent".
Also don't take this as a bashing to you or your brother but realise that what he said could've been something he meant, and is something that really shouldn't be joked about.

Really Interested

jeanjolie wrote: »

Okay, what I'm really asking people when I question 'normality' is not whether it's abnormal or not (we've already established that) but whether it's normal is in comparison to the young teens they've met in the past and currently meet.

I need some perspective If I'm to understand how far my brother deviates from normal behaviour of teenagers. Is it common to meet anyone who would express violent ideations towards teachers and/or students. Not constantly but an off remark comment?

You answered your own question in your OP "and how surprised he was at some classmates disgust" I would be worried about any person whose verbal reaction to dislike of a women is rape.

jeanjolie

Stheno wrote: »

It's completely abnormal to think suggesting raping anyone is ok

Since this might be a psychiatric issue, how common is it for psychologists/psychiatrists to come across patients who express these ideations?

njs030

jeanjolie wrote: »

Okay, what I'm really asking people when I question 'normality' is not whether it's abnormal or not (we've already established that) but whether it's normal is in comparison to the young teens they've met in the past and currently meet.

I need some perspective If I'm to understand how far my brother deviates from normal behaviour of teenagers. Is it common to meet anyone who would express violent ideations towards teachers and/or students. Not constantly but an off remark comment?

Really I think you should discuss this with your parents and ask for a family meeting with his psychologist.

If I'm rembering from your other posts correctly you're also male and only a few years older so it's concerning you don't see the problem here and are trying to justify it.

Stheno

jeanjolie wrote: »

Since this might be a psychiatric issue, how common is it for psychologists/psychiatrists to come across patients who express these ideations?

No idea at all but it's disturbing both that your brother expresses these thoughts and that you question if it's OK. What age and gender are you?

Really Interested

jeanjolie wrote: »

Since this might be a psychiatric issue, how common is it for psychologists/psychiatrists to come across patients who express these ideations?

That is irrelevant, you asked about the discussion by the professional with the child's parents. Any issue that requires parental knowledge and action must be discussed with them. I would hazard a guess the boy has too much access to violent porn and is not mature enough to deal with it. If this issue is not addressed now then your brother may suffer harm in the future.

slits

jeanjolie wrote: »

Okay, what I'm really asking people when I question 'normality' is not whether it's abnormal or not (we've already established that) but whether it's normal is in comparison to the young teens they've met in the past and currently meet.

I need some perspective If I'm to understand how far my brother deviates from normal behaviour of teenagers. Is it common to meet anyone who would express violent ideations towards teachers and/or students. Not constantly but an off remark comment?

The lack of constance in those comments could be even more worrying because he might now realise its something he can't share.
To me that comment isn't just about violence though its about a sex crime so could reflect his possible desires.
I have heard young people say violent things, I'd say its common enough but I've never heard a young person say that.
And if he understood the severity of what he was saying when he said it, I would say he has some problems.

jeanjolie

Really Interested wrote: »

That is irrelevant, you asked about the discussion by the professional with the child's parents. Any issue that requires parental knowledge and action must be discussed with them. I would hazard a guess the boy has too much access to violent porn and is not mature enough to deal with it. If this issue is not addressed now then your brother may suffer harm in the future.

No, interestingly, he's actually being called a 'prude' by his classmates.

Apart from the disturbing aspect of his comments, a lot of people were surprised because he has the stereotype of being a 'goody two shoes'. He doesn't believe he's good or try to act good but just keeps quiet, doesn't interrupt does reasonable well when applies himself.

Knowing him, he has no interest in porn. Our parents aren't the strict type to block internet access (though they avoid sex discussions), but he doesn't masturbate as has no interest etc..

Judging by what he says without any history, it sounds like he looks up disturbing stuff on the internet but honestly, he's quite tame in what he does. Mostly goes on online forums.

slits

jeanjolie wrote: »

Knowing him, he has no interest in porn. Our parents aren't the strict type to block internet access (though they avoid sex discussions), but he doesn't masturbate as has no interest etc..

How do you know this? O.o
He is a teenage boy if you ask him about watching porn he isn't just going to say yeah I love it. And the masturbation part especially how do you know he doesn't? You seem to want nothing to be wrong with him but if has problems he needs them sorted not ignored so everyone can pretend he is a good boy.

Really Interested

slits wrote: »

How do you know this? O.o
He is a teenage boy if you ask him about watching porn he isn't just going to say yeah I love it. And the masturbation part especially how do you know he doesn't? You seem to want nothing to be wrong with him but if has problems he needs them sorted not ignored so everyone can pretend he is a good boy.

The OP is a male teanager as well, young boys talk about this stuff now I hear.

Fakediamond

jeanjolie wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but being honest how odd is it?

She seems to think that it's just an issue with him being undisciplined i.e lack of parental guidance. She says that spending too much time online is causing this.

I doubted this explanation as I said myself, I know plenty of kids who spend time online and none of them seem to be like my brother in terms of what he says though this does not necessarily mean the issue lies entirely with him.

If you do believe there's a problem here, what could it be and how common do you think it is in young adults/teens?

Lots of underage kids see inappropriate/disturbing stuff online, or play violent video games, with an over 18 rating, and most of them won't act out or be overly affected by what they see. Unfortunately, some people are more sensitive to this stuff and it may have adverse psychological affects. Perhaps the therapist is just trying to flag this to your parents.

A bunch of strangers on a forum cannot possibly dissect what complex issues might be going on with your brother, or within your family. My advice would be to let the therapist do her work for now and there may be some family sessions at some point, where everyone gets to air their views. You can have your say then, but try not to undermine the process for now as he's obviously experiencing some difficulties and probably needs all the support he can get.

cbyrd

When you brother started his treatment he would have been told that he can expect his sessions to be confidential with 2 exceptions. First one is if anything raises a red flag that is a potential to break the law, in any way shape or form.
Second is if he specifically asks for the therapist to advise his parents of a problem he has that he doesn't feel able to tell your parents about.
Also if she thought that there was a risk of suicide, you parents would be informed too.
It's about her having her ass covered if he acted out on anything she'd been told.
For him to bring that up so long after the event would raise a big red flag for me. You're not privy to what happens in these sessions or to the full context of the conversation afterwards with your parents. Tbh, I'd advise you to butt out and let the grown ups handle it.
Rape or the threat of it is very serious.

Tokyo

jeanjolie wrote: »

He told her about how in 3rd year he jokingly told a classmate that he wanted to rape a Chemistry teacher who the whole class in his year hated and how surprised he was at some classmates disgust.

jeanjolie wrote: »

How abnormal is this really? Have you ever heard about or experienced first hand some friend/classmate who made similar violent/inappropriate comments towards teachers or others when you were in school?

jeanjolie wrote: »

Since this might be a psychiatric issue, how common is it for psychologists/psychiatrists to come across patients who express these ideations?

It sounds very much like you are hell bent on normalising your brother's behaviour, rather than face the fact that he might have a problem OP, which in the long run will only do more harm than good.

His psychotherapist is a trained professional - you aren't. And she obviously saw something in his behaviour that were red flags that she felt a professional obligation to act upon. Rather than be in denial that your brother's behaviour is somehow acceptable teenage behaviour and vilifying his psychotherapist in the process, your efforts would be far better spent getting him the help he needs, whatever that might be.

Big Bag of Chips

Why don't you want your brother to get all possible help?

He's 16. A minor. Your parents are responsible for him. You say this happened in 3rd year, so a year ago? 2 years ago? If it was an off the cuff, throw away remark that he didn't mean then he wouldn't even remember it. But he remembers it. And he remembers being confused as to why his friends were shocked by what he said.

Your brother is seeing a psychologist for very good reason it would seem. She needs to do her job, both to help your brother through his problems and be better able to cope with life, and to protect people she may feel are in danger. She can't make a judgement call and ignore something based on "ah, he's a lovely fella, he wouldn't actually do anything".

You are too young and too close to be able to see your brother's problems. He's not attending a psychologist for no reason. You need to stop interfering and stop trying to block your brother's care. The best thing you can do for him is trust the (trained and professional) adults know better than you do what's best for him. The psychologist isn't running back to your parents with every word he says. There will be a lot he has said to her that she will never disclose to anyone, because there's no need. What she did tell your parents, needed to be told.

And I agree with others the fact that you can't see that is worrying. Have you ever threatened to rape someone? Have any of your friends?

leggo

I'm sorry, but while joking about rape isn't funny or okay, I think everyone here has forgotten what being a teen is like. You say dumb **** like this because you don't understand it/are looking for a reaction/pushing buttons/trying things out to see how they work. It's good that he got the reaction he did and, as such, it likely made him think about why he got that shocked reaction and about the topic at hand. This is how we learn, and that's what being 16 is there for. If he was in his 20's or 30's he should know better, but nobody ever once said that a 16-year old should know better because, put simply, they don't at that age. OP it's not that strange in reality and you're getting a lot of faux outrage here that's not in line with the real world.

However, onto your problem...there's obviously stuff which led your brother to this stage so, while your heart is in the right place and you likely want to see your little brother as normal and make excuses for him because you love him, I think you need to be more accepting of the situation. His psychotherapist is feeding stuff back to your parents because they have to cover their own arse and also make sure your brother is fully supported, so it's for his own good. Your parents may be distressed, but that's a parent's job, and better they be distressed with the facts than blissfully ignorant of the situation. You can act as a buffer for the situation in letting them know what is/isn't normal, but as far as whether the situation is normal with the psychotherapist giving them feedback, I would imagine so yes.

I Am_Not_Ice

Sigh...and so the war on boys continues. Teenagers say terrible things to and about to each other all the time - doing so doesn't necessarily indicate a deep seated pathology or some sort of sexual depravity. But in this day and age, where free speech is being stifled on all sides by the morality police, any hint of an off-colour remark by a young person - particularly a young man - is now grounds to brand them as a potential pervert or a danger to society.

I think the OP is justified in their frustration; the therapist is massively jumping the gun and creating an issue where (probably) none exists.

Afroshack

I Am_Not_Ice wrote: »

Sigh...and so the war on boys continues. Teenagers say terrible things to and about to each other all the time - doing so doesn't necessarily indicate a deep seated pathology or some sort of sexual depravity. But in this day and age, where free speech is being stifled on all sides by the morality police, any hint of an off-colour remark by a young person - particularly a young man - is now grounds to brand them as a potential pervert or a danger to society.

I think the OP is justified in their frustration; the therapist is massively jumping the gun and creating an issue where (probably) none exists.

war on boys?? FFS. He made a rape joke and then couldn't understand why it wasn't funny to others. Even worse, he comes from a family who don't grasp the severity of that remark and are downplaying the whole incident. This is bigger than an off the cuff joke made to friends.

The therapist is very justified in reporting these concerns.

Teyla Emmagan

I Am_Not_Ice wrote:

Sigh...and so the war on boys continues. Teenagers say terrible things to and about to each other all the time.

He made a frightening and threatening remark about a teacher, not one of his peers. Not that either are in anyway acceptable, rape is never something to be joked about. It's completely beyond the pale.

And 16 year old teenager is not "a boy" the way you are trying to pass this off. He could be the size of a grown man. This isn't the same as a bad taste joke by an 11 year old, it's not surprising he repelled his class with his comments. This kid does need to be seeing a professional.

And as for you OP and your bizarre "it's okay because the comment was about a grown woman no one likes" justification. It's not in anyway OK (???!!!). In fact that's one of the maddest things I have ever heard on Boards. I think that just establishes your lack of capacity to be involved in this situation.

You should butt out of it completely.

bee06

OP this obviously isn't just about one rape comment. You said yourself that your brother has had serious issues. Stop downplaying things and let the therapist work to give your brother the help he needs.

silverharp

the kid will likely now not cooperate with anyone or not be honest with them. A lot of teenage boys would be in "therapy" if every comment or joke they ever made was reported back. Unless the kid disclosed that he has a genuine compulsion issue now in a serious context im not sure why the need to report back with this particular anecdote. Surely its up to the professional to look for a pattern of behaviour that leads to a diagnoses of a possible personality disorder or leanings in the direction of one and take it from there

dudara

Right, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I am deeply uncomfortable discussing the ongoing medical treatment of a teenager, especially when there may be enough information shared to identify him.

OP, I'm closing this thread. I suggest that you listen to a lot of the responses you've received here.

dudara