Anti-social licensee

tatumkelly

Hi,

Basically as the title says, nightmare licensee in house share since March. Situation is completely beyond repair with aggressive behaviour, shouting, verbal abuse, sneering comments and generally unacceptable behaviour like leaving house alarm unset, windows and doors wide open with nobody in the house. No lease or written agreement. Others in house feel unsafe and intimidated and want person removed from house asap.

What is minimum notice period? How do I ensure that individual leaves and doesn't just refuse. I want to give 7 days, according to RTB website I think this is legal and more than fair.

Any advise appreciated?

Samuel T. Cogley

For them to be a licencee you need to be their 'Landlord' if you and they both share the same landlord then it's up to him/her to sort it.

Assuming you're the LL (either by being the owner or through a sublet) you need give reasonable notice only and in the case of an anti-social tenant I wouldn't even bother with that, it's near unenforceable. Ask them to leave and if needs be change the locks, but ensure you keep their stuff safe.

SwimFin

Advice from a 'burnt' landlord:-

1. If you do not have a Licensee Agreement draw one up and have it signed by Licensee, ensure it is not on email. Templates available.

2. Have a reasonable 'notice of end of Licensee Agreement' i.e. weekly rent= week's notice, month's rent = month's notice. More importantly have a proviso should the Landlord at any time feel that they are not safe in their home, that damage to the property has been done by the Licensee or any other behaviour deemed unacceptable by the Landlord then the Landlord reserves the right to terminate the Licensee Agreement allowing '24/48/72 hours notice' to vacate the premises.

3. All bills paid within 2 days of submission to Licensee.

4. A deposit is held. Spoke to Threshold today and they said any issues and the Landlord can keep deposit. Ensure deposit will cover you for at least a months rent.

5. Under absolutely no circumstances is damage to be done to the property. All unauthorised alterations etc are deemed illegal, will result in immediate eviction and the Licensee pays for same (not taken from deposit).

6. References (at least 3); double check, triple check. Trust me, last reference could be from a landlord who just wants 'rid'.

7. Get Licensee to sign Agreement with all the T&C's ensure you have a copy. Gardaí today told me without a signed copy then no recourse i.e. no agreement exists and no breaches have occurred. Given that there is damage already done to property etc (unpaid by Licensee) is neither here nor there to the Gardaí, they cannot tell the Licensee to pay, that it is a civil matter. The only way I could get my keys back was to state I felt unsafe in my home. It is an absolute nightmare.

In your situation get the Licensee Agreement signed, then when you feel there are 'breaches' in the Licensee Agreement allow said notice as outlined in Agreement for reasons to vacate within a shorter period of time.

Trust me, cover all angles.

There is no need for a licensee agreement. If the person is infact a licensee the homeowner can ask them to leave for any reason under the sun or no reason at all. There is no need for them to have breeched any "agreements".

Throw them out instantaly, put their belongings in the garden and change the locks.

SwimFin

Ideally Yes, however, from my own experience today - given that I had given a months notice (expires on Friday) I learnt about structural damage to my property 3 days ago and I advised that all monies due and owing for the damage (invoice provided) should be paid immediately, Licensee refused. Structural damage + other stuff. Gardai told me, in person, at my home that indeed I did not have any 'rights' to get my keys back even though Licensee had breached terms + conditions, had caused damage well in excess of deposit, and as I did not have a 'written Licensee Agreement' just T&Cs outlined in email (Gardai stated that didn't hold water). This is my experience and TBH my wisdom is due to 'hindsight' and I would advise anyone to do what I have outlined. You never know when a situation can suddenly escalate into a scenario that is untenable. Do not rely on he said/she said, have it in writing your terms and conditions and 'watch your back', unscrupulous behaviour is rampant and someone will 'take advantage of loopholes' if they can.

Mrs OBumble

7 days gives them wayyy too much chance to cause trouble.

The only legal requirement is being reasonable. If they're making you feel unsafe, then leaving immediately is reasonable.

Figure out where they could go tonight (eg a backpacker hostel - be sure it has vacancies). Tell them to leave.

runawaybishop

SwimFin wrote: »

Ideally Yes, however, from my own experience today - given that I had given a months notice (expires on Friday) I learnt about structural damage to my property 3 days ago and I advised that all monies due and owing for the damage (invoice provided) should be paid immediately, Licensee refused. Structural damage + other stuff. Gardai told me, in person, at my home that indeed I did not have any 'rights' to get my keys back even though Licensee had breached terms + conditions, had caused damage well in excess of deposit, and as I did not have a 'written Licensee Agreement' just T&Cs outlined in email (Gardai stated that didn't hold water). This is my experience and TBH my wisdom is due to 'hindsight' and I would advise anyone to do what I have outlined. You never know when a situation can suddenly escalate into a scenario that is untenable. Do not rely on he said/she said, have it in writing your terms and conditions and 'watch your back', unscrupulous behaviour is rampant and someone will 'take advantage of loopholes' if they can.

Not sure how correct that gardai was tbh. Licencees have no rights. Giving them a doc gives them more that they have. Kick then out, change the locks. Costs like 10 euro to replace barrel locks. Court for damages, if significant. Otherwise the deposit is all you have

SwimFin

I agree, personally, I don't think the Garda knew the background of Licensee Agreement, I did. I also had spoken to Threshold just to reaffirm my understanding of a Licensee Agreement. However, if it is verbal, on email, or whether or not the Garda was au fait with the Licensee Agreement T&Cs the fact was that to his particular Garda it didn't matter one iota, no paper no 'legality'.

By having an official 'Licensee Agreement' you hopefully will not have to endure what I can only say has been such a horrible experience. Awful.

SwimFin

SwimFin wrote: »

I agree, personally, I don't think the Garda knew the background of Licensee Agreement, I did. I also had spoken to Threshold just to reaffirm my understanding of a Licensee Agreement. However, if it is verbal, on email, or whether or not the Garda was au fait with the Licensee Agreement T&Cs the fact was that to his particular Garda it didn't matter one iota, no paper no 'legality'.

By having an official 'Licensee Agreement' you hopefully will not have to endure what I can only say has been such a horrible experience. Awful.

The guard was talking total nonsense. I'd argue the opposite, a licensee agreement can only be a bad thing as it may make the licensee think they have rights they don't.

You need to bring them to court for damages, having an agreement would not change that.

4ensic15

gardai are not lawyers or judges. They have no business giving legal advice. A licensee has the same rights as a guest in a hotel. Act the maggot and its out pronto.