Summer transfer thread 17/18 season (NEYMAR TALK IN OTHER THREAD)

MD1990

Remember when Pep was being praised for helping bring through players in La Masia lol.

bucketybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Anyone remember that thing about financial fair play? :pac:

Its basically financial doping, not that anybody would ever associate Pep Guardiola with doping of course.

Burial.

Rumours of Mendy having his medical today.

Trigger

Fair ****s to them, they haven't hung about!

Harry Palmr

MD1990 wrote: »

Remember when Pep was being praised for helping bring through players in La Masia lol.

City have got an excellent crop of U18s in particular but it's hard to see many getting a chance beyond the League Cup.

Cantona's Collars

Harry Palmr wrote: »

City have got an excellent crop of U18s in particular but it's hard to see many getting a chance beyond the League Cup.

A case in point of what City (and Chelsea) do:

https://twitter.com/MediaShaneBurns/status/868399826379079680

Giggsy11

MD1990 wrote: »

Remember when Pep was being praised for helping bring through players in La Masia lol.

It was myth. He promoted few young players at Barca (whom he knew because he managed them in Barca but at Bayern and City his record is poor.

Tbh it's not something that should be used to judge managers at top club. They are hired to win trophies.

MD1990

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It was myth. He promoted few young players at Barca (whom he knew because he managed them in Barca but at Bayern and City his record is poor.

Tbh it's not something that should be used to judge managers at top club. They are hired to win trophies.

It is a myth for sure. Pep is still an excellent coach . But next season is huge for him it is why City are on a spending spree.
The players they are targeting are much better than who they signed in previous years like Stones,Nolito,Navas,Mangala,Otamendi,Sterling & Bony all poor buys.

bucketybuck

MD1990 wrote: »

It is a myth for sure. Pep is still an excellent coach . But next season is huge for him it is why City are on a spending spree.
The players they are targeting are much better than who they signed in previous years like Stones,Nolito,Navas,Mangala,Otamendi,Sterling & Bony all poor buys.

The real myth is that City need to spend ?300m. They already have a squad more than capable of winning the league and a lot of those players listed are perfectly good players being made to look bad. Is it a co-incidence all their defenders look poor these days...

Gbear

MD1990 wrote: »

It is a myth for sure. Pep is still an excellent coach . But next season is huge for him it is why City are on a spending spree.
The players they are targeting are much better than who they signed in previous years like Stones,Nolito,Navas,Mangala,Otamendi,Sterling & Bony all poor buys.

Stones and Sterling are far too young to be written off.

If you actually stand back and look at Sterling's season and take his age into account it's been quite good.
Nearly 20 goals and assists for a 22 year old is a great return. It'd be more if his finishing wasn't so awful in comparison to the rest of his skill set.
People want to have a go because of his fee and because the way he left Liverpool made him look like a knob, but he's still one of the best players in the world for his age.

The way Guardiola plays has put huge pressure on Stones. Dumping all that **** on a young CBs plate isn't a great recipe for success, either individually or for the team.

It's not a coincidence that teams that play open expansive football with near-sucidally high lines that put massive amounts of pressure on their defence end up looking like clowns while ones who play with 1 or more DMs and sit deep look more coherent.

Defence isn't about individuals. It's about systems. If you're caught in a 1v1 situation something's already gone wrong and you're probably ****ed.
Anything the defender does to rectify it at that point is a bonus.

I think the main problem with City's signings since they got a lot of them right right around 2010-2012 are in the mature players that have neither been good enough, nor had any capacity to develop. Navas, their full back purchases, Fernando, keepers. What's good has been what has been there since they cracked it with their first title. If they hadn't bought loads of rubbish "proven" players maybe the younger signings might've had the room to develop they needed.

MD1990

bucketybuck wrote: »

The real myth is that City need to spend ?300m. They already have a squad more than capable of winning the league and a lot of those players listed are perfectly good players being made to look bad. Is it a co-incidence all their defenders look poor these days...

Otamendi is too slow to play in a high line. Stones is overrated but he is still young so could improve.

SlickRic

I've said it before, but Pep is just an 'easier on the eye' Mourinho.

He demands the best players for his ideas to come to fruition. No different. It's just handy that the reputation he gained at Barca when he had Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Puyol eye means he now has the clout to demand what he wants.

Give anyone in the world £300m and they'd have a decent shot at winning stuff.

MD1990

Gbear wrote: »

Stones and Sterling are far too young to be written off.

If you actually stand back and look at Sterling's season and take his age into account it's been quite good.
Nearly 20 goals and assists for a 22 year old is a great return. It'd be more if his finishing wasn't so awful in comparison to the rest of his skill set.
People want to have a go because of his fee and because the way he left Liverpool made him look like a knob, but he's still one of the best players in the world for his age.

The way Guardiola plays has put huge pressure on Stones. Dumping all that **** on a young CBs plate isn't a great recipe for success, either individually or for the team.

It's not a coincidence that teams that play open expansive football with near-sucidally high lines that put massive amounts of pressure on their defence end up looking like clowns while ones who play with 1 or more DMs and sit deep look more coherent.

Defence isn't about individuals. It's about systems. If you're caught in a 1v1 situation something's already gone wrong and you're probably ****ed.
Anything the defender does to rectify it at that point is a bonus.

I think the main problem with City's signings since they got a lot of them right right around 2010-2012 are in the mature players that have neither been good enough, nor had any capacity to develop. Navas, their full back purchases, Fernando, keepers. What's good has been what has been there since they cracked it with their first title. If they hadn't bought loads of rubbish "proven" players maybe the younger signings might've had the room to develop they needed.

Sterling numbers are ok. He has improved but I don't think long term he will be good enough to be a starter for City but can still be a very good squad player for them. He still cannot kick a ball correctly.

In Pep's attacking style you have to be able to defend 1v1. Paying 50m for a CB I would want them to be able to defend 1v1. It is probably why the top 4 all want Van Dijk.

As I said previously next season is huge for Guardiola. If they fail to at least show huge progress or win a PL or CL I think he could leave Man City.
His first season at Man City was a big failure for him.

Burial.

Sterling was one of City's best players this season, had a fine term. Far from a poor buy.

MD1990

Burial. wrote: »

Sterling was one of City's best players this season, had a fine term. Far from a poor buy.

No he wasn't. He improved & the english media would like you to believe he was one of City's best players but he wasn't.

Sane,Aguero,Silva,De Bruyne & Fernandinho all had better seasons. Jesus is a better player as well as is Bernado Silva.

Sterling is a good player but he does not have the quality to ever become a top class player.

Rayne Wooney

SlickRic wrote: »

I've said it before, but Pep is just an 'easier on the eye' Mourinho.

He demands the best players for his ideas to come to fruition. No different. It's just handy that the reputation he gained at Barca when he had Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Puyol eye means he now has the clout to demand what he wants.

Give anyone in the world £300m and they'd have a decent shot at winning stuff.

You could say Mourinho earned the ability to ask for any player, Pep is very lucky his first job happened to be with one of the best squads of all time.

I think most people had the feeling Pep would struggle when he faced a proper challenge and he has.

If you put Mourinho in a team like Liverpool or Spurs I think he wins trophies, I just don't think Pep would.

ERG89

zerks wrote:

80 million for Mendy/walker Will keep Aguero Want Alexis Will get one of fabinho/William carvalho Want one of Virgil van djik or bonucci. Want to sell bony,nasri,mangala,hart.

With that much spending I'd expect even Tony Adams to win the league with them.
He'll get about 73p for Bony

Gbear

MD1990 wrote: »

In Pep's attacking style you have to be able to defend 1v1. Paying 50m for a CB I would want them to be able to defend 1v1. It is probably why the top 4 all want Van Dijk.

There are players that are better or worse at it but in the end, you can only hold back 1v1s so much. If you keep giving them away you will concede. When the attacker can just run around you there's only so much you can do without there being cover.

The Messis, Hazards and other dribblers of this world aren't reknowned for beating isolated CBs on the wing. That's meat and drink to any attacker with a modicum of pace.

What defenders in this system need first and foremost is ability on the ball, because they need to be able to play through a press and not make stupid passes that put them under pressure, but of course City have done that repeatedly.

Of course, being a reltively good 1v1 defender, having good recovery pace and all that is a positive trait, but it's a mitigating factor when things go wrong.
A good keeper will bail you out, but you don't want to be in a situation where he's having to do that because you're more reliant on the attacker ****ing it up than anything.

If all is going to plan, City will have 70%+ of the ball, so it follows that what happens during that period will be what's most important.
It'd be interesting to see how many City have conceded from being opened up while sitting deep or even from normal counter-attacks, rather than their CBs getting caught high up the pitch because of poor use of the ball.

Good defences in the league aren't good because each individual is like a magical brick wall that nobody can overcome. It's because they have layered defences denying the space and that demands near-supernatural levels of close control and/or pace to get through regularly.

His team, like Klopp's, sacrifices having a defensive structure worth the name in favour of being able to reach levels of attacking play that wouldn't otherwise be possible.
If they want to go defensive, they do it with the ball rather than by sitting deep and absorbing pressure.

Cantona's Collars

SlickRic wrote: »

I've said it before, but Pep is just an 'easier on the eye' Mourinho.

He demands the best players for his ideas to come to fruition. No different. It's just handy that the reputation he gained at Barca when he had Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Puyol eye means he now has the clout to demand what he wants.

Give anyone in the world £300m and they'd have a decent shot at winning stuff.

About £200 million already spent,for HALF A BILLION!! including the projected spend this year they'd expect to win everything.

MD1990

Zidane is getting little credit for the job he is doing at Real Madrid compared to how much praise Pep got.
He is doing a great job at Real. Managed Ronaldo very well in particular.

Burial.

MD1990 wrote: »

No he wasn't. He improved & the english media would like you to believe he was one of City's best players but he wasn't.

Sane,Aguero,Silva,De Bruyne & Fernandinho all had better seasons. Jesus is a better player as well as is Bernado Silva.

Sterling is a good player but he does not have the quality to ever become a top class player.

Fernandinho had a really inconsistent season and at times was a complete liability. Has been one of the best midfielders in recent years but his season was very average given his standards and easily his worst in a City shirt. Nowhere near as good a season as Sterling. Jesus didn't play enough. Bernardo Silva hasn't played a minute for City so not sure how he is relevant to last season.

Sterling at times was City's runaway best player and was a front runner for City's Player of the season for a large part. Seemed sluggish and wrecked towards the end of the season alright but he's played a lot of football this season. Sterling gets a f*ck tonne of unwarranted abuse it's stupid. When he plays well it's ignored by everyone but as soon as he misses a chance abuse is thrown at him. He's already a top player... World class might be a stretch, but he is clearly a top player.

bucketybuck

MD1990 wrote: »

In Pep's attacking style you have to be able to defend 1v1.

If an English manager stubbornly stuck to a "system" that constantly left his defenders 1v1 and made his players repeatedly look like fools, that manager would be castigated and eventually sacked. If an English manager dropped Aguero and took that City squad to a limp 4th place finish he would be sacked.

Peps attacking style is Van Gaal levels of myopic thinking, he is damn lucky to still be in a job.

blueser

bucketybuck wrote: »

If an English manager stubbornly stuck to a "system" that constantly left his defenders 1v1 and made his players repeatedly look like fools, that manager would be castigated and eventually sacked. If an English manager dropped Aguero and took that City squad to a limp 4th place finish he would be sacked.

Peps attacking style is Van Gaal levels of myopic thinking, he is damn lucky to still be in a job.

3rd.

ERG89

Burial. wrote:

Fernandinho had a really inconsistent season and at times was a complete liability.

Wasn't he played as a makeshift right back?
Then in midfield behind Sane, De Bruyne, Silva, Sterling & Aguero who don't work too hard. Not sure if say he was liable for not being able to impress in a side that unbalanced.

Skylinehead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you put Mourinho in a team like Liverpool or Spurs I think he wins trophies, I just don't think Pep would.

Based on what? Mourinho has had money wherever he's gone outside of Portugal. And even then, the dodgy finances and third party ownership enabled Portuguese teams to get great Brazilians on the cheap at the time.

Burial.

ERG89 wrote: »

Wasn't he played as a makeshift right back?
Then in midfield behind Sane, De Bruyne, Silva, Sterling & Aguero who don't work too hard. Not sure if say he was liable for not being able to impress in a side that unbalanced.

Played the last few games of the season at RB yes, and a few throughout the season when City's defence was crippled...remember him at RB against Liverpool where he was poor but when moved back to midfield he played well.

Gbear

bucketybuck wrote: »

If an English manager stubbornly stuck to a "system" that constantly left his defenders 1v1 and made his players repeatedly look like fools, that manager would be castigated and eventually sacked. If an English manager dropped Aguero and took that City squad to a limp 4th place finish he would be sacked.

Peps attacking style is Van Gaal levels of myopic thinking, he is damn lucky to still be in a job.

You can have all the money in the world but it still takes time to implement a totally different way of playing.

In a sane world where City aren't spending billions and put under the pressure that goes with that, maybe Pep gets 3,4,5 seasons and he might well need that to get them ticking the way he wants.

What's key is that at the very least, this season sustains City financially and in terms of clout. It's fine to pursue an ambitious type of football so long as you're not undermining the club in the process by missing out on CL. Utd fans, or those who rightfully disdain the deeply troubling source of City's wealth might go into histrionics about it but while 3rd or 78 points is hardly good enough, it's not a crisis either.

I think there's more at stake here for City than purely trophies.
If they can build consistent success and/or play a defining brand of football it legitimises them more than just buying a load of silverware.
It's different with the first few titles but now they have that, adding another one every few years doesn't really represent progress for the club.

You won't get that with a Mourinho or a decent manager that ticks the boxes and finishes on par 2 seasons in 3 and wins a couple of titles. You might with Guardiola.

Guardiola's first league win isn't talked about because they were plucky paupers beating mighty Real Madrid or because they won a load of trophies in general. It was how they did it. It's that they're talked about as being one of the greatest in the history of football.

City winning with a style of football that's so hi-risk as to be holding their opposition in contempt is a statement about the club that I think City very much want to make. In a sense, it's a bit small time having to do that to put themselves up there with other European royalty, but if they actually acheive it, nobody will be laughing at them.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Skylinehead wrote: »

Based on what? Mourinho has had money wherever he's gone outside of Portugal. And even then, the dodgy finances and third party ownership enabled Portuguese teams to get great Brazilians on the cheap at the time.

Porto had 2 Brazilian players in their champions league winning team.Both of whom (Derlei and Carlos Alberto) weren't exactly world beaters.

He done a brilliant job with them and he did an excellent job with Inter although Inter's lack of success prior to Mourinho was in large part due to Mancini being a fairly poor manager.

Burial.

Pep would be great at that Spurs team. Would be a perfect fit. Imagine Mourinho having Dele Alli at CB for half the season.

MD1990

Burial. wrote: »

Fernandinho had a really inconsistent season and at times was a complete liability. Has been one of the best midfielders in recent years but his season was very average given his standards and easily his worst in a City shirt. Nowhere near as good a season as Sterling. Jesus didn't play enough. Bernardo Silva hasn't played a minute for City so not sure how he is relevant to last season.

Sterling at times was City's runaway best player and was a front runner for City's Player of the season for a large part. Seemed sluggish and wrecked towards the end of the season alright but he's played a lot of football this season. Sterling gets a f*ck tonne of unwarranted abuse it's stupid. When he plays well it's ignored by everyone but as soon as he misses a chance abuse is thrown at him. He's already a top player... World class might be a stretch, but he is clearly a top player.

Fernandinho still played well last season despite being moved around.

Sterling still too inconsistent but he did have a good season but not City's POTY by any means. Certaintly wouldn't call him a top player.

Burial.

Think it's more to do with his ol doll being in Italy. Does put to bed the whole Morata + cash for De Gea.

Harry Palmr

Another Madrid "star" who has had enough! It's just as well the market has gone mad or their level of wastage would be an issue.

Ulysses Gaze

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Porto had 2 Brazilian players in their champions league winning team.Both of whom (Derlei and Carlos Alberto) weren't exactly world beaters.

He done a brilliant job with them and he did an excellent job with Inter although Inter's lack of success prior to Mourinho was in large part due to Mancini being a fairly poor manager.

Inter were the Champions of Italy when he took them over with the following World Class players at his disposal:

Julio Cesar, Walter Samuel, Javier Zanetti, Maicon, Christian Chivu, Nicolas Burdisso, Ivan Cordoba, Marco Materazzi, Dejan Stankovic, Luis Figo, Patrick Viera, Esteban Cambiasso, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Hernan Crespo, Julio Cruz, Adriano.

Let's face it, a team with that quality of defence was tailor made to play Mourinho Catenaccio. So we are not talking about a rebuild here. The core foundation for his success at Inter was already there.

What Mourinho had (and has) was better man management skills than Mancini (who has none to be honest). Mancini is a spoofer. Only won the title with City because Utd conspired to throw it away. And nearly bottled in on the final day.

pjohnson

Ah here is this a thread about Peps tactics or summer transfers. If we keep mentioning Pep we'll summon AIG.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Inter were the Champions of Italy when he took them over with the following World Class players at his disposal:

Julio Cesar, Walter Samuel, Javier Zanetti, Maicon, Christian Chivu, Nicolas Burdisso, Ivan Cordoba, Marco Materazzi, Dejan Stankovic, Luis Figo, Patrick Viera, Esteban Cambiasso, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Hernan Crespo, Julio Cruz, Adriano.

Let's face it, a team with that quality of defence was tailor made to play Mourinho Catenaccio. So we are not talking about a rebuild here. The core foundation for his success at Inter was already there.

What Mourinho had (and has) was better man management skills than Mancini (who has none to be honest). Mancini is a spoofer. Only won the title with City because Utd conspired to throw it away. And nearly bottled in on the final day.

Still you have to credit Mourinho for getting the job done.Looking back now that Inter team didn't get anywhere near the credit they deserve they were a truly great side.

What is noticeable is that the players at Inter seemed to really love him but since Inter his man management skills have massively declined and he seems constantly at odds with the players which was never the case before then.

bucketybuck

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Inter were the Champions of Italy when he took them over with the following World Class players at his disposal:

Julio Cesar 30, Walter Samuel 32, Javier Zanetti 36, Maicon 28, Christian Chivu 29, Nicolas Burdisso 28, Ivan Cordoba 33, Marco Materazzi 36, Dejan Stankovic 31, Luis Figo 36, Patrick Viera 33, Esteban Cambiasso 29, Zlatan Ibrahimovic 27, Hernan Crespo 33, Julio Cruz 34, Adriano 27.

Even allowing for the very loose use of the term "world class", its worth noting that the average age of the players you have listed was over 31.

I don't even disagree that Mourinho didn't have talent at this disposal, but including the likes of the retiring 36 year old Luis Figo just hurts the case you are trying to make.

Dirty Dingus McGee

bucketybuck wrote: »

Even allowing for the very loose use of the term "world class", its worth noting that the average age of the players you have listed was over 31.

I don't even disagree that Mourinho didn't have talent at this disposal, but including the likes of the retiring 36 year old Luis Figo just hurts the case you are trying to make.

The team itself for the final in 2010 was brilliant.Only 1 player on it (Goran Pandev) would not have been considered to be a genuine world class player at some point during their career and pretty much all of Inter's team were at their peak or close to it in 2010.

Skylinehead

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Porto had 2 Brazilian players in their champions league winning team.Both of whom (Derlei and Carlos Alberto) weren't exactly world beaters.

He done a brilliant job with them and he did an excellent job with Inter although Inter's lack of success prior to Mourinho was in large part due to Mancini being a fairly poor manager.

It does seem the third party problems came a few years later, although you forgot Deco

Porto is still his greatest achievement, Inter were great but as you say already a multiple league winning team and tailor made for him, especially the defence.

Giggsy11

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Inter were the Champions of Italy when he took them over with the following World Class players at his disposal:

Julio Cesar, Walter Samuel, Javier Zanetti, Maicon, Christian Chivu, Nicolas Burdisso, Ivan Cordoba, Marco Materazzi, Dejan Stankovic, Luis Figo, Patrick Viera, Esteban Cambiasso, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Hernan Crespo, Julio Cruz, Adriano.

Let's face it, a team with that quality of defence was tailor made to play Mourinho Catenaccio. So we are not talking about a rebuild here. The core foundation for his success at Inter was already there.

What Mourinho had (and has) was better man management skills than Mancini (who has none to be honest). Mancini is a spoofer. Only won the title with City because Utd conspired to throw it away. And nearly bottled in on the final day.

So many world class players but did nothing in CL before and after Jose eh?

Lucio, Sneijder, Milito, Eto'o, Motta were among the key players and all of them were signed in 2009, Jose's second season.

Most of the players you mentioned were on their pension money, calling them world class means every decent player is world class.

eagle eye

I clicked on t thread to see what big transfer had happened as there were so many posts since last night and I see that none of them are about a transfer. 🙄

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

I clicked on t thread to see what big transfer had happened as there were so many posts since last night and I see that none of them are about a transfer. 🙄

I hope you appreciate the irony of that post.

irishman86

If Pep next season goes and wins the league after spending 500 million in two years, I really dont see it as that big a achievement
Now if hes gets City playing like the great Barcelona and wins the league it will be, hes purpose at City is to install a style of play
If he doesnt win the league next year, I dont see a third season of Pep

Harry Palmr

If managers count Silva is now the Watford manager (for a while)

Kristopherus

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If managers count Silva is now the Watford manager (for a while)

Hope he lasts longer than the last half dozen:D.

marklazarcovic

personally a manager would need to be at a club for upwards of 4 seasons to to implement a youth development integration into the first team,if they just think short term 2-3 years why bother with it if moving again.

SlickRic

eagle eye wrote: »

I clicked on t thread to see what big transfer had happened as there were so many posts since last night and I see that none of them are about a transfer. 🙄

It's reaction to a ton of money being spent by Pep on transfers. It's not that weird.

the whole year inn

irishman86 wrote: »

If Pep next season goes and wins the league after spending 500 million in two years, I really dont see it as that big a achievement
Now if hes gets City playing like the great Barcelona and wins the league it will be, hes purpose at City is to install a style of play
If he doesnt win the league next year, I dont see a third season of Pep

But that's what's he's trying to implement, and at times was there, if he is there abouts next season it might take another season to get that extra gear.

irishman86

the whole year inn wrote: »

But that's what's he's trying to implement, and at times was there, if he is there abouts next season it might take another season to get that extra gear.

If hes not able to implement it after 500 million well is he ever going to.
This season I like many give him leeway, I wouldnt next season if he doesnt win anything when spending that much
For me City is his big challenge
Barcelona/Bayern were ready made teams with stars that could adapt to Pep

deaddonkey15

Burial. wrote: »

Pep would be great at that Spurs team. Would be a perfect fit. Imagine Mourinho having Dele Alli at CB for half the season.

Why would he do that?

the whole year inn

irishman86 wrote: »

If hes not able to implement it after 500 million well is he ever going to.
This season I like many give him leeway, I wouldnt next season if he doesnt win anything when spending that much
For me City is his big challenge
Barcelona/Bayern were ready made teams with stars that could adapt to Pep

Well the players he gets in this season, he will have to bleed them all in, basically a whole back line and even the players he worked with this year going to need more help, I could understand why he would need time and if he does implement it, it will be a worth while effort.