Summer transfer thread 17/18 season (NEYMAR TALK IN OTHER THREAD)

Gbear

eagle eye wrote: »

We've seen it but 'repeatedly' is going way, way over the top.

I hadn't realised the 7-0 was so long ago (12/13).
It's 4 or 5 instances since then. Leicester was another example although it was at a lower level with a lower calibre of footballers in defence so less relevant.

I think the general point still stands though. That many heavy defeats for teams that are that good is anomalous in my eyes.

When they crumble, they crumble hard.

Part of it is the pace and quality of European football these days and you can be 2 or 3 down before you have time to blink but the way in which you see teams like Barca and Bayern following Pep or Pep-like models being exposed on the counter-attack does not, for me, suggest defensive solidity in the commonly understood sense of the word.

The kind of football that Pep plays seems to be on a more acute bell curve than teams that play deeper with full backs who don't play as wingers.

tastyt

Lads, the point is it doesn't matter about the price. Money means nothing anymore in the premier league because its swimming in it.

The fact is, last season city were shocking at full back and goalkeeper. This season it looks like they will have mendy and walker left and right and a hugely rated goalkeeper between the sticks. Do they care how much that costs if it wins them trophies?

Absolutely not.

Gbear

tastyt wrote: »

Lads, the point is it doesn't matter about the price. Money means nothing anymore in the premier league because its swimming in it.

The fact is, last season city were shocking at full back and goalkeeper. This season it looks like they will have mendy and walker left and right and a hugely rated goalkeeper between the sticks. Do they care how much that costs if it wins them trophies?

Absolutely not.

That might be true in general, but is Kyle Walker the absolute best FB in the world?

And, while money might not matter to City, £50m strengthens Spurs more than losing Walker costs them if they invest it even moderately well.
Whether they like it or not, Spurs have finished above them 2 seasons on the trot and that's something they have to take into account.

ThunbergsAreGo

Gbear wrote: »

That might be true in general, but is Kyle Walker the absolute best FB in the world?

And, while money might not matter to City, £50m strengthens Spurs more than losing Walker costs them if they invest it even moderately well.
Whether they like it or not, Spurs have finished above them 2 seasons on the trot and that's something they have to take into account.

Given how Spurs have bought the last few years, moderately well might be difficult

Jayop

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Would you class Gary Neville as a failed CB or just a great defender who wasn't tall enough to play CB full time?

FB is a fairly specialised position and has a huge difference in responsibilities depending on the style of play the team practices. Some have to be out-and-out defenders while others are decent defenders who have an adequate/good/great ability to offer an attacking option. It all depends on what they can bring to the team.

Prices are just mind boggling in every position this year so I am just switching off even thinking about the price at this stage.

I'm taking the piss because that's exactly what Carragher said to Neville.

Jayop

Who did city buy for goals again?

NIMAN

Jayop wrote: »

Same as. Haven't seem him so can't really comment. Ye don't have a great record with big money signings really but this one is completely different from Benteke and Carroll. This looks like a proper scouted player rather than a panic buy.

This kinda sums up the madness in the transfer market these days.

You'd think if we are talking about a 65mill player, he'd be a household name and everyone would have seen him play.

For a guy to be worth that and be relatively unknown to football fans is crazy.

theoneeyedman

Gbear wrote: »

That might be true in general, but is Kyle Walker the absolute best FB in the world?

And, while money might not matter to City, £50m strengthens Spurs more than losing Walker costs them if they invest it even moderately well.
Whether they like it or not, Spurs have finished above them 2 seasons on the trot and that's something they have to take into account.

It's been a long standing tactic of City, buy an important player from a close rival. Did it for several years with arsenal when they were breaking into the champions league, and now it's Spurs.
The money is so crazy it's practically meaningless. Only in planet EPL is an ordinary enough player like walker worth that sort of money, buy in truth it's just silly stuff. We should stop counting or commenting on the prices, you'd be daft trying to rationalise it.

irishman86

Gbear wrote: »

That might be true in general, but is Kyle Walker the absolute best FB in the world?

And, while money might not matter to City, £50m strengthens Spurs more than losing Walker costs them if they invest it even moderately well.
Whether they like it or not, Spurs have finished above them 2 seasons on the trot and that's something they have to take into account.

Id say hes the best in the league ahead of a fit Coleman
See all this nonsense that hes second choice to Trippier which is just bull****, he was dropped as everyone knew he was on his way

SlickRic

It's quite obvious Pep has been given a blank chequebook. Nothing wrong with that. It's an amazing position to be in.

However, what will bother me is if he beats all before him and he's lauded as a genius.

If any of the top 8 managers in the league were told to name whatever player they want, in whatever position they need, that is at all gettable, at whatever price, they'd all make a good fist of winning the League.

rwbug

https://twitter.com/City_Watch/status/886225068283580417

Agent Coulson

He is going to be loaned straight back out to City's new Spanish club Girona FC by all accounts.

NIMAN

SlickRic wrote: »

It's quite obvious Pep has been given a blank chequebook. Nothing wrong with that. It's an amazing position to be in.

However, what will bother me is if he beats all before him and he's lauded as a genius.

If any of the top 8 managers in the league were told to name whatever player they want, in whatever position they need, that is at all gettable, at whatever price, they'd all make a good fist of winning the League.

This is how football has run for several decades now.

There was a book written about it. There is a direct correlation between money spent and trophies won.

So we often hear how Pep, Jose, Ancelloti and the like are geniuses. Despite the fact that they are handed practically unlimited funds to buy the best. They don't ever accept jobs where money will be tight. They have to go to incredibly rich clubs, otherwise they might have to actually work a miracle and win by motivating players, tactics etc.

Its not often now, or recently, you can point to a manager that won the top trophies with a limited budget.

rwbug

Agent Coulson wrote: »

He is going to be loaned straight back out to City's new Spanish club Girona FC by all accounts.

"The Club will make a further statement about Douglas’ immediate development pathway in the coming days"

Certainly looks like he is going to Girona, not sure he would get a work permit yet anyway. The fee is around £10 million.

blueser

Jayop wrote: »

Who did city buy for goals again?

Everyone and their dog knows we badly needed to upgrade the defence, which we're working on. Walker signed along with Ederson in goal, and hopefully Mendy to follow (and Bertrand?). We're not too shabbily served for attacking options, even allowing that, at the moment, we only have one out and out old fashioned striker in Kun. Sane, Sterling, Jesus, KDB, Spanish Dave, Silva mk II, Gundogan; they can all chip in with a few goals. Another front man wouldn't go amiss though. Sanchez, maybe? And rumours still persist that we're trying to snare Mbappe, though I think he'll end up at Madrid (he's supposed to idolise Zidane, isn't he?).

SlickRic

NIMAN wrote: »

This is how football has run for several decades now.

There was a book written about it. There is a direct correlation between money spent and trophies won.

So we often hear how Pep, Jose, Ancelloti and the like are geniuses. Despite the fact that they are handed practically unlimited funds to buy the best. They don't ever accept jobs where money will be tight. They have to go to incredibly rich clubs, otherwise they might have to actually work a miracle and win by motivating players, tactics etc.

Its not often now, or recently, you can point to a manager that won the top trophies with a limited budget.

Agreed.

They don't all command the same aura and myth around them that Pep does though. He's as much a chequebook manager when needs be as anyone else is my point.

Gbear

We have seen examples of managers who don't succeed or don't succeed on the same scale.

City have spent enough cash since they made that brilliant team that won their first title to have done far better but they haven't had the kind of consistent success you'd expect.
They've failed in recruitment and in on-pitch performances.
Benitez failed at Madrid despite having the best team in the world.
Mourinho has had astonishingly brilliant teams and/or loads of money and has failed to a greater or lesser extent in 5 of his last 7 seasons, whereas nobody can dispute the acheivement of back to back record-breaking titles with Chelsea, spending or no.
Pep when starting out didn't just win but won a treble and the consistent success at Barca went hand in hand with an era-defining brand of football.
His time at Bayern, on the other hand, was just hitting par to an extent that any competent manager could have. There were positives and things he did that others couldn't have, but nothing particularly important.

For Pep to be a success he can't just win a league, a domestic cup and nothing else in a 3 year spell at City, like Pellegrini or Mancini.
He needs to make a serious statement in Europe, win back to back titles, win the most dominant title ever or something else to justify backing him and I'm sure everyone and their dog realises that.

That's the measure of sucess in these allegedly top class managers and what they need to do to separate them for the Mancinis, Di Matteos and Pellegrinis.

Gbear

NIMAN wrote: »

They have to go to incredibly rich clubs, otherwise they might have to actually work a miracle and win by motivating players, tactics etc.

That isn't enough on it's own.

Leicester's title win was impressive but even so, it shows the limitations of the lack of quality in the low number of points they won the league with.

That and the fact they nearly got relegated the following season show that motivating and tacticing your way with less good players amounts to treading water.
In an anomalous season they were able to sustain it long enough to win a weak league but if you're expecting to make a serious title challenge 5 years on the bounce and win most of them then it'll never be enough.

Comic Book Guy

Bakayoko to Chelsea is official.

irishman86

SlickRic wrote: »

It's quite obvious Pep has been given a blank chequebook. Nothing wrong with that. It's an amazing position to be in.

However, what will bother me is if he beats all before him and he's lauded as a genius.

If any of the top 8 managers in the league were told to name whatever player they want, in whatever position they need, that is at all gettable, at whatever price, they'd all make a good fist of winning the League.

Id say its more how he does it and how well he does in Europe rather than the actual winning of the league

irishman86

SlickRic wrote: »

Agreed.

They don't all command the same aura and myth around them that Pep does though. He's as much a chequebook manager when needs be as anyone else is my point.

For me Jose has a more impressive cv based on what he achieved with Porto
Outside that there isnt much between them, Pep always has the best team bar last season but he doesnt get judged on results more on the style he plays. Jose needs to win something to be successful as he doesnt have the same attractive style

NIMAN

blueser wrote: »

And rumours still persist that we're trying to snare Mbappe, though I think he'll end up at Madrid (he's supposed to idolise Zidane, isn't he?).

I don't think his feelings about ZZ would matter.

We are talking about playing for Man City v Real Madrid here. Its a non-contest, irrespective of money. There's few players who would choose City over Madrid, all things being equal.

rwbug

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't think his feelings about ZZ would matter.

We are talking about playing for Man City v Real Madrid here. Its a non-contest, irrespective of money. There's few players who would choose City over Madrid, all things being equal.

The majority would prefer Real but it isn't a non-contest. Only last season we saw Gabriel Jesus choose City ahead of Barca and Real Madrid and Nolito choose City over Barca.

SlickRic

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Bakayoko to Chelsea is official.

The dominoes continue falling.

Matic to Utd next I'd imagine.

TitianGerm

rwbug wrote: »

The majority would prefer Real but it isn't a non-contest. Only last season we saw Gabriel Jesus choose City ahead of Barca and Real Madrid and Nolito choose City over Barca.

He wouldn't start for either Real or Barca, he knew he would have a better chance for City so I'd say that played a part.

deaddonkey15

NIMAN wrote: »

This is how football has run for several decades now.

There was a book written about it. There is a direct correlation between money spent and trophies won.

So we often hear how Pep, Jose, Ancelloti and the like are geniuses. Despite the fact that they are handed practically unlimited funds to buy the best. They don't ever accept jobs where money will be tight. They have to go to incredibly rich clubs, otherwise they might have to actually work a miracle and win by motivating players, tactics etc.

Its not often now, or recently, you can point to a manager that won the top trophies with a limited budget.

In fairness to Mourinho, he won a Uefa Cup and Champions League with Porto and also a treble with Inter. He didn't have practically unlimited funds at those clubs.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

It's quite obvious Pep has been given a blank chequebook. Nothing wrong with that. It's an amazing position to be in.

However, what will bother me is if he beats all before him and he's lauded as a genius.

If any of the top 8 managers in the league were told to name whatever player they want, in whatever position they need, that is at all gettable, at whatever price, they'd all make a good fist of winning the League.

At least 3 of them have been...

TitianGerm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

At least 3 of them have been...

Jose and what other two? Wenger hasn't spent much, either has Poch or Klopp and Conte didn't spend that much has he?

martyos121

Leicester reject a £20m bid from Roma for Mahrez.

That's a highly optimistic offer, don't see him going for less than £40m despite his lack of form last season.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

At least 3 of them have been...

Pep and José.

rwbug

https://twitter.com/City_Watch/status/886297868524539904

martyos121

Federico Fazio joins Roma on a permanent deal having been there on loan last season from Spurs.

eagle eye

SlickRic wrote: »

Agreed.

They don't all command the same aura and myth around them that Pep does though. He's as much a chequebook manager when needs be as anyone else is my point.

Pep got that aura with the Barcelona team which won so much. There were loads of players who came through the club on that team and he came through the club himself both as a player and a coach.

He then got one of the biggest jobs in football at Bayern and broke records there even though he didn't manage to win the Champion's league. He maintained his status as one of the best managers in the world because his teams did very well.

He is at City now and a totally different environment and trying to make Manchester City a powerhouse of domestic and European football. It's a mammoth task but the money makes it possible. If he gets them to the top of European and domestic football consistently he certainly deserves to get lauded for it.

Zinedine Zidane is getting lauded for winning back to back Champion's league trophies and a club who have spent ridiculous money so Pep deserves the same plaudits if he gets City to the same level as Real Madrid imo.

Jayop

SlickRic wrote: »

Pep and José.

Jose has spent big on two players, the rest have been very reasonable. Hardly unlimited money on any position.

TitianGerm

Jayop wrote: »

Jose has spent big on two players, the rest have been very reasonable. Hardly unlimited money on any position.

Jose spent big at Chelsea the first time around as well.

SlickRic

eagle eye wrote: »

Pep got that aura with the Barcelona team which won so much. There were loads of players who came through the club on that team and he came through the club himself both as a player and a coach.

He then got one of the biggest jobs in football at Bayern and broke records there even though he didn't manage to win the Champion's league. He maintained his status as one of the best managers in the world because his teams did very well.

He is at City now and a totally different environment and trying to make Manchester City a powerhouse of domestic and European football. It's a mammoth task but the money makes it possible. If he gets them to the top of European and domestic football consistently he certainly deserves to get lauded for it.

Zinedine Zidane is getting lauded for winning back to back Champion's league trophies and a club who have spent ridiculous money so Pep deserves the same plaudits if he gets City to the same level as Real Madrid imo.

Pep is excellent. I've always said that.

He's just not as different to other elite managers as some want us to believe. That's my point.

Jayop

emmetkenny wrote: »

Jose spent big at Chelsea the first time around as well.

Surely we're talking current roles.

TitianGerm

Jayop wrote: »

Surely we're talking current roles.

Oh maybe he was but I took it to mean over the years?

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/886361136777637889

"Next on Manchester City's record breaking defensive shopping list: Danilo"


Spend,spend,spend until trophies arrive.Genius

Corholio

So, if true, City are spending huge money on a very good attacking but can be dodgy defensively right wing back only to follow it up with an ok going forward but really poor defensively right wing back. I'd be surprised if it was true tbh.

irishman86

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/886361136777637889

"Next on Manchester City's record breaking defensive shopping list: Danilo"


Spend,spend,spend until trophies arrive.Genius

Hes a poor Alves/Walker, a strange signing all around as hes been found out at the top level. Didnt have a sad record of being apart of every loss Real had last season

SlickRic

Corholio wrote: »

So, if true, City are spending huge money on a very good attacking but can be dodgy defensively right wing back only to follow it up with an ok going forward but really poor defensively right wing back. I'd be surprised if it was true tbh.

Pep isn't interested in his defenders being good defensively in the traditional sense. He's interested in pace. Why? Because his teams have all the possession and he wants recovery pace in case his team is hit on the counter.

Then he wants someone who is capable of creating an extra option in midfield as his full backs tuck in often.

Apart from that, he just wants them rampaging down their flank.

blueser

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/886361136777637889

"Next on Manchester City's record breaking defensive shopping list: Danilo"


Spend,spend,spend until trophies arrive.Genius

I presume you think the same about other managers in the league?

Armchair Andy

blueser wrote:

I presume you think the same about other managers in the league?

You heard it here first. Everton for the PL next season.

blueser

blueser wrote: »

I presume you think the same about other managers in the league?

No, it's only big bad citeeeaaa that spend big!

rossie1977

As far as what the top 5 clubs have spent since last summer

Man city 308 million
Man Utd 255 million
Chelsea 162 million
Arsenal 146 million
Liverpool 102 million

blueser

RoboKlopp wrote: »

No, it's only big bad citeeeaaa that spend big!

Apparently. We're the pantomime villian. Ah well. C'est la vie.

Turtwig

Maybe it's just me but I think Trippier is a better full back than Walker anyway.

Wonder with all that net spend by all the clubs this season what kind of product we'll get in the EPL next season.

Harry Palmr

rossie1977 wrote: »

As far as what the top 5 clubs have spent since last summer

Man city 308 million
Man Utd 255 million
Chelsea 162 million
Arsenal 146 million
Liverpool 102 million

What is Man Utd doing on that list?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What is Man Utd doing on that list?

Top 5 in spending only, Harry:pac: