Summer transfer thread 17/18 season (NEYMAR TALK IN OTHER THREAD)

Jayop

The Talking Bread wrote: »

The only top prize he is less likely to win the La Liga and Copa del rey............. Barca aren't in anyway hugely ahead of PSG in the "likelihood to win the Champions League" bracket. In fact, dare I say............

Ah stop, Barca had a poor enough year but if I was going to guess who was more likely to win in Europe in the next five years my money would be on Barca. Also, LaLiga as a lot more kudos than what PSG are likely to win.

As it stands PP agree's.

Barca are 4/1 favourites followed by Madrid and Bayern. PSG are 10/1.

Osmosis Jones

I honestly think the move to PSG shows massive ambition from Neymar, he's gone there to be the main man and to move them up a level. If he can get them alongside Barca, Real, and Bayern, genuinely challenging for the Champions League then that's a much bigger achievement than coasting along with Barca.

bkrangle

What odds on Barca trying for Mbappe now that Neymar is on his way out?

ERG89

Lucas Hood wrote:

Bayern might need to sign another attacker soon.

It's pre season yeah but they have looked quite bad. I'm sceptical of Ribery delivering after his injuries & how Rafinha is still at that club is beyond me. Quite a poor depth beyond the regulars & 3 or 4 others. A few of them are injury prone too. Are James, Gnabry & Rudy good enough to make a real difference?
I don't know tbh.

The Talking Bread

Jayop wrote: »

Ah stop, Barca had a poor enough year but if I was going to guess who was more likely to win in Europe in the next five years my money would be on Barca. Also, LaLiga as a lot more kudos than what PSG are likely to win.

As it stands PP agree's.

Barca are 4/1 favourites followed by Madrid and Bayern. PSG are 10/1.

I am using my football logic that PSG are ever increasingly closing in on Barca and getting more and more ambitious and savvy in their acquisitions so as that the likelihood of them winning a CL is not massively behind Barcelona's more and more.
You are welcome to dismiss this, by your own opinion or Paddy Power odds, which ever way you want!

Eh, yes, I am well aware that La Liga is FAR more prestigious than Ligue 1. Not sure where I disputed this!!

Billy86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Never got one. Never trusted that he wouldn't do what he's done.

How prophetic!

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Neymar! Neymar! is the cry rising from the stands of the Camp Nou, Barcelona's genius has produced another moment of sheer brilliance to win the penalty and scoreally it again. He's stepping up for Barcelona tonight, he's the next great player for the Catalan club, he's the worlds next great player.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Busquets, Pique, Messi, Alba aren't even that old and the next main man of Barcelona is already in the team (Neymar)

Andersonisgod wrote: »

they should be posting about Neymar who is the superstar to take over from Messi,

Andersonisgod wrote: »

By the way, I love Neymar and I love how much Neymar loves Barça.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Suarez being better than Neymar is entirely debatable and we will see this season how that progresses, however in the long term is it certainly Neymar who will be the more important player for Barcelona.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Neymar will prove to be a star in the long term and he has contributed with key goals this season.

Oh, and this gem.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A major signing is needed. A player the caliber of Hazard or Neymar, Suarez, while undoubtedly talented, isn't worthy of playing for a club the stature of Barcelona.

The_Kew_Tour

Game set and match

The Talking Bread

Pete Moss wrote: »

Yes, any footballer has the right to make as much money as they possibly can throughout there career. Though there's a lot more to be said for a player who shows professional hunger.

Essentially, in my opinion, the "take the money and run" argument doesn't really wash when a gifted player takes a step down, especially when the player wasn't exactly struggling financially at their previous club.

Are you suggesting Neymar isn't showing any element or even a decreased element of professional hunger with this move?

ERG89

The Talking Bread wrote:

The only top prize he is less likely to win the La Liga and Copa del rey............. Barca aren't in anyway hugely ahead of PSG in the "likelihood to win the Champions League" bracket. In fact, dare I say............

I don't think PSG are good enough defensively to make extra progress in the latter stages. A useless goalie in Trapp, a shakey defence & their midfield dissolved under pressure against Barca last year. Problem now for them is spending 220m on Neymar will leave them with very little to improve the rest of the team. They ain't going to get much for what they do sell as most of them flopped.

pjohnson

Billy86 wrote: »

How prophetic!



Oh, and this gem.

the gift that keeps on giving.

AdamD

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I honestly think the move to PSG shows massive ambition from Neymar, he's gone there to be the main man and to move them up a level. If he can get them alongside Barca, Real, and Bayern, genuinely challenging for the Champions League then that's a much bigger achievement than coasting along with Barca.

It would be more ambitious to try and become an objectively better player than Messi, which should be doable as he declines. Rather than move to beat Messi to the Balon Dor by hoping his team wins and Messis doesn't

MisterAnarchy

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am using my football logic that PSG are ever increasingly closing in on Barca and getting more and more ambitious and savvy in their acquisitions so as that the likelihood of them winning a CL is not massively behind Barcelona's more and more.

Is it really your football logic or your absolute hatred of Barcelona though ?

Pete Moss

The Talking Bread wrote:

I am using my football logic that PSG are ever increasingly closing in on Barca and getting more and more ambitious and savvy in their acquisitions

Whilst acquiring, arguably, the third best player on the planet is far from idiotic, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to call PSG "savvy" with their acquisitions particularly when they're flinging €220m (plus wages and his father's fees) at one of these acquisitions.

The Talking Bread

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Is it really your football logic or your absolute hatred of Barcelona though ?

I have zero hatred of Barca? Zero? I have much more love for them as a club and for their ethos and past players than I have for, say Real. And I don't have any real disdain for them either, especially at the moment.
I have criticised the club and fans victim complex at times and hypocricy when things go there way but, lets be honest, certain obsessive Barca fans on these forums don't help people that don't support Barca, in this respect.

Think you are thinking of another poster mate.

greendom

£515,000 per week AFTER TAX!!! That is just insane

The Talking Bread

Pete Moss wrote: »

Whilst acquiring, arguably, the third best player on the planet is far from idiotic, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to call PSG "savvy" with their acquisitions particularly when they're flinging €220m (plus wages and his father's fees) at one of these acquisitions.

Football has it's own economy, lets be honest. As you said, at 25, he is the "media's heralded 3rd best player in the world"
A large amount of that price comes down to commercial issues (see Paul Pogba - see any half retired player heading to the footballing prestige of Asia), buying a player like Neymar will take the club, as a club to another planet, as well as their actual team and he will play the best years of his career there perhaps. It will lead to a domino effect where the prestige of playing for PSG will grow more and more over time.

As well as a unbelievable player, they are buying an unbelievable brand and clubs like PSG, who have the ambition and cash to reach these levels will always pay astronomical looking prices.

A club like PSG were never going to be able to haggle with Barca over Neymar, they pay the shelf price and right now these are the shelf prices for players like him.

They wanted him. They had the money. The player wanted to join. The only stumbling block was Barca's representatives. But they overcame that.

Look at the state of the market. It is monopoly money.

Pete Moss

The Talking Bread wrote:

Are you suggesting Neymar isn't showing any element or even a decreased element of professional hunger with this move?

Yes. The move is obviously motivated by money first and foremost. The dog in the street can see that much.

I've read the Ballon D'Or argument, as well as it being mentioned about Neymar stepping out of Messi's shadow, but this is no more than a smokescreen, IMO.

Will he win titles in France? Of course, It'd be hard not to, particularly as Monaco's impressive young team continues to be dismantled. Though I doubt Neymar Jr. dreamt of lifting the prestigious Ligue 1 title as a boy. Therefore, I would feel this move is step down for the player which shows a decrease in professional hunger, ambition, call it what you please.

Maybe me referring to this move as a "step down" is a bit harsh though, after all time will tell. Are Barca in decline? Depends really on what they buy. Are PSG on the rise? Depends really on what they've bought.

I don't really care much for Barca, PSG or Neymar (even though he is a hell of a talent) either way, but I must admit that there's a certain schadenfreude to this transfer which is just delightful.

MisterAnarchy

Interesting comments by Suarez in Dec 2015 (who is a better player than Neymar btw)

Asked about the possibility of leaving Barca to join another club :
"I suffered a lot to get here, it’s the club I always wanted to play for,” he said.
"Even if [another club] offered me triple the money to leave, I wouldn't leave.
"My family is happy. It’s impossible [that I’d leave]. I am going to stay here for many years."

Harry Palmr

Will PSG end up with garnish on a wobbly soft cake? They'll have to balance the books to at least some degree through traditional means with sales and there will be plenty of interest in various mid-fielders in particular I suspect.

blueser

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Interesting comments by Suarez in Dec 2015 (who is a better player than Neymar btw)

Asked about the possibility of leaving Barca to join another club :
"I suffered a lot to get here, it’s the club I always wanted to play for,” he said.
"Even if [another club] offered me triple the money to leave, I wouldn't leave.
"My family is happy. It’s impossible [that I’d leave]. I am going to stay here for many years."

Not sure what your point is, to be honest. They're two different people. With different outlooks, different personalities, diferent priorities in life. Are you seriously suggesting that because Suarez committed himself long term to Barca, that Neymar should do the same? You're not, are you?

thebaz

greendom wrote: »

£515,000 per week AFTER TAX!!! That is just insane

do people really enjoy watching footballers who make that much money - who cares if PSG win the CL - I'm all for footballers getting looking after , particularly those from poorer South American countries - how do average Brazilians relate to players making that ?

Rugby players put there bodies on the line , and they don't make that in a year - good luck

raze_them_all_

thebaz wrote: »

do people really enjoy watching footballers who make that much money - who cares if PSG win the CL - I'm all for footballers getting looking after , particularly those from poorer South American countries - how do average Brazilians relate to players making that ?

Rugby players put there bodies on the line , and they don't make that in a year - good luck

Rugby isnt nearlyt as popular worldwide.


It's weird, guards put their bodies on the line yet they dont even get 100k a year, do you really enjoy watching rugby players who earn that much

KERSPLAT!

I couldn't care less who pays who how much and what they pay the player in wages. I like watching football, what they earn has no bearing on that.

Osmosis Jones

I'd rather watch skilful players than ones who just throw themselves around. Watching someone "put their body on the line" isn't appealing in the slightest.

Billy86

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Rugby isnt nearlyt as popular worldwide.

It's weird, guards put their bodies on the line yet they dont even get 100k a year, do you really enjoy watching rugby players who earn that much

Not true, Osemele and Kevin Zeitler make over 10mn a year.



(I'll get my coat)

thebaz

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Rugby isnt nearlyt as popular worldwide.


It's weird, guards put their bodies on the line yet they dont even get 100k a year, do you really enjoy watching rugby players who earn that much

I just don't enjoy watching the very high level of football any more, for that reason - I can't relate to a footballer making over a 100k a week - perhaps a Messi or Ronaldo - when you watch league of Ireland players giving it there all , I can relate more - same for rugby or GAA players at top level , they are not making these obscene amounts .

Osmosis Jones

Since when have you had to relate to a football player? It's a sport, not art. I can understand someone not enjoying a certain musician because they can't relate to what they're singing about, but a football player? No way.

The Talking Bread

Pete Moss wrote: »

Yes. The move is obviously motivated by money first and foremost. The dog in the street can see that much.

I've read the Ballon D'Or argument, as well as it being mentioned about Neymar stepping out of Messi's shadow, but this is no more than a smokescreen, IMO.

Will he win titles in France? Of course, It'd be hard not to, particularly as Monaco's impressive young team continues to be dismantled. Though I doubt Neymar Jr. dreamt of lifting the prestigious Ligue 1 title as a boy. Therefore, I would feel this move is step down for the player which shows a decrease in professional hunger, ambition, call it what you please.

Maybe me referring to this move as a "step down" is a bit harsh though, after all time will tell. Are Barca in decline? Depends really on what they buy. Are PSG on the rise? Depends really on what they've bought.

I wrote some of this post earlier and I apologise for copy and pasting it again but, in response to that there is more to these moves than just money.
Obviously he and his family will be licking their lips at the weekly wages, they know they can demand but for people to suggest that once why is everything so "one or the other" when it comes to these type of moves.

Neymar clearly is an extremely passionate and emotional footballer on the field, noone can question his commitment, look at him when he plays for Brazil, he seems to have huge ambition as a footballer in his own right, always thriving to take advantage of his talents and doesn't seem like the sort of player that is just happy to pick up a wage packet and go through the motions.

He achieved everything at Barca. Careers don't end at Madrid and Barca.

Money aside,(and it isn't as if Neymar wasn't set to live like a King, stay or go anyway) there is also the topic of Neymar's ego at play here (in a positive manner)

Maybe Neymar wants a team built around him and not somewhat overshadowed by Barca's main protagonist Messi.

Maybe he wants to be the one who is remembered as the player that took PSG to the next level, where a huge club is centered around him as a player and, even, figure.

It is poor mentality for some players who are limited to an extent, something which Neymar clearly isn't, but he does seem to thrive in that role and loves the worship that he is subject to for his own national team.

It is a new venture, a new project. At the end of the day it is a career but it is a short one and certain players get itchy feet and seek new challenges, especially when the challenge reaps so many rewards.

He isn't going there to retire ffs.

He owes nothing to Barca, he has left so much on the field, they don't even owe anything to him apart from respect for the effort he has put in. (not pathetic posts calling him a traitor or a judas!!)

A change of scenery is always exciting to. Paris is a wonderful place to live, I can imagine. (not that Barcelona isn't) . It isn't as if he is f*cking off to Makhachkala or Dalian or Mumbai. And he will, once more, be surrounded by brilliant colleagues for a team that is desperate for top success





Sorry for the fairytale post!

~Rebel~

thebaz wrote: »

I just don't enjoy watching the very high level of football any more, for that reason - I can't relate to a footballer making over a 100k a week - perhaps a Messi or Ronaldo - when you watch league of Ireland players giving it there all , I can relate more - same for rugby players at top level , they are not making these obscene amounts .

I guess it comes down to what you're looking for from sport. Personally, I don't feel any need to relate to the players I'm watching. It's almost the opposite, I want to see people at the very top level do things that I could never even dream of doing. It's entertainment, with a dose of emotional connection.

Not that there isn't something great about relating to a sports person, like Olympians, many of whom make next to nothing for their efforts, and achieve incredible things. It's a far more powerful human story, with a more interesting background. But it's not a necessity for me to enjoy something at least.

Fromvert

thebaz wrote: »

do people really enjoy watching footballers who make that much money - who cares if PSG win the CL - I'm all for footballers getting looking after , particularly those from poorer South American countries - how do average Brazilians relate to players making that ?

Rugby players put there bodies on the line , and they don't make that in a year - good luck

They don't get it because nobody cares about that sport. If people did they would and the same complaints would be thrown about. If they start making more money would that put you off that sport too?

There's plenty of people in sport who put their body on the line to barely make enough to get by.

thebaz

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Since when have you had to relate to a football player? It's a sport, not art. I can understand someone not enjoying a certain musician because they can't relate to what they're singing about, but a football player? No way.

football grew as a game of the people - people supported clubs or country cause thats where the teams came from originally - sometimes people actually knew some of the players that made it - never one for putting anyone on a pedestal , perhaps the odd true great - a Maradonna, Messi, Zidane - but if people want to support players making over 200k a week thats your right - I don't , I'm getting too old for boards ...

The Talking Bread

thebaz wrote: »

I just don't enjoy watching the very high level of football any more, for that reason - I can't relate to a footballer making over a 100k a week - perhaps a Messi or Ronaldo - when you watch league of Ireland players giving it there all , I can relate more - same for rugby or GAA players at top level , they are not making these obscene amounts .

If you can relate to Ronaldo and Messi earning huge wages, surely you can stretch your mind somewhat for Neymar?


What is there to relate to anyway!

thebaz

Fromvert wrote: »

They don't get it because nobody cares about that sport.

Funny most internationals sell out faster than soccer - people do care - cop on

thebaz

The Talking Bread wrote: »

If you can relate to Ronaldo and Messi earning huge wages, surely you can stretch your mind somewhat for Neymar?


What is there to relate to anyway!

top level soccer sucks for me now - grew up loving it - you guys enjoy it today - I don't - I'm out

Fromvert

thebaz wrote: »

Funny most internationals sell out faster than soccer - people do care - cop on

In comparison to the soccer, rugby is nothing. I'm talking worldwide and soccer being so huge worldwide is what drives these crazy prices and wages higher and higher.

If overnight rugby became as big as soccer and all of the money associated with that poured in would it turn you off?

thebaz

Fromvert wrote: »

If overnight rugby became as big as soccer and all of the money associated with that poured in would it turn you off?

probably

ps I'm on my own on this , made my point - enjoy

Guffy

Neymar transfer is just disgusting.

Panthro

Have we signed Danny Drinkwater yet?
Hon chelsea.

MisterAnarchy

thebaz wrote: »

probably

ps I'm on my own on this , made my point - enjoy

I'm losing interest in football in general ,money is ruining it especially the Premier league.
When you see very average footballers like John Stones ,Kyle Walker ,etc going for over £50m it beggars belief.
The average fan is being priced out of it with ticket prices ,tv matches are spread across multiple providers so it costs alot to watch your team.
More and more money is being pumped into the league yet the product being served up is deteriorating .

yabadabado

thebaz wrote: »

Funny most internationals sell out faster than soccer - people do care - cop on

Rugby is a minority sport in comparison to football.Very few countries play rugby to a high level.
Sure Ireland are one of the best teams around atm so it's no surprise if they sell out quicker but I'd guess most soccer internationals out sell rugby.

POKERKING

On a kind of transfer topic(in terms of managers anyway) irishman Jon Daly taken over as interim manager of Hearts after they sacked Ian Cathro. First game at the weekend is away to celtic...baptism of fire.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Guffy wrote: »

Neymar transfer is just disgusting.

Why?

blueser

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I'm losing interest in football in general ,money is ruining it especially the Premier league.
When you see very average footballers like John Stones ,Kyle Walker ,etc going for over £50m it beggars belief.
The average fan is being priced out of it with ticket prices ,tv matches are spread across multiple providers so it costs alot to watch your team.
More and more money is being pumped into the league yet the product being served up is deteriorating .

You ARE aware that other clubs have spent big money in this window, not just City, yeah?

theoneeyedman

Does the money supposedly changing hands in these deals actually exist, or is a lot of it bull.

Does if show up on anything, is it just 'well we'll pay x millions' but it's on such strange terms over a long time that it never really changes hands, except to see a good chunk siphoned off into varying pocket of agents, advisors, Swiss bank accounts.....

It all looks like a big ponzi scheme to me.

blueser

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Does the money supposedly changing hands in these deals actually exist, or is a lot of it bull.

Does if show up on anything, is it just 'well we'll pay x millions' but it's on such strange terms over a long time that it never really changes hands, except to see a good chunk siphoned off into varying pocket of agents, advisors, Swiss bank accounts.....

It all looks like a big ponzi scheme to me.

I'd say most of it is on the drip. Even clubs that can afford to pay upfront, like us and PSG, will be reluctant to shell out major cash in one go.

retalivity

greendom wrote: »

£515,000 per week AFTER TAX!!! That is just insane

And doesnt france have a 70% tax rate for high earners? So the weekly gross is 1.7m....jesus christ

StringerBell

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He stopped by at training to say goodbye to teammates who had grown sick of his attitude. Good riddance.

raze_them_all_

thebaz wrote: »

I just don't enjoy watching the very high level of football any more, for that reason - I can't relate to a footballer making over a 100k a week - perhaps a Messi or Ronaldo - when you watch league of Ireland players giving it there all , I can relate more - same for rugby or GAA players at top level , they are not making these obscene amounts .

So if a league of ireland player gets signed by barca for 200k a week you'd be like nah **** that guy, I could relate to him last week but **** him now?

KaiserGunner

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

So if a league of ireland player gets signed by barca for 200k a week you'd be like nah **** that guy, I could relate to him last week but **** him now?

Well give a lot of people 200k a week and you will see their lifestyle change dramatically and even their attitude to life. So yeah that wouldn't be that far fetched that you suddenly couldn't relate to a guy after that.
(Not saying I necessarily agree personally)