Summer transfer thread 17/18 season (NEYMAR TALK IN OTHER THREAD)

Lukker-

There should be a relief thread where all United vs Pool arguments get moved and they can just run at each other with pots on their heads without bothering other fans

Buford T. Justice XIX

Lukker- wrote: »

There should be a relief thread where all United vs Pool arguments get moved and they can just run at each other with pots on their heads without bothering other fans

I think it's called the Humour thread:P

Lukker-

Lukker- wrote: »

There should be a relief thread where all United vs Pool arguments get moved and they can just run at each other with pots on their heads without bothering other fans

Absolutely. Not sure was it mentioned in the feedback thread but it would be a welcome addition by almost everyone.

Cantona's Collars

Back to transfers,Stoke completed the signing of Maxim Choupo-Moting.

https://twitter.com/stokecity/status/894622849058603008

inforfun

irelandrover wrote: »

I read it on nu.nl and they referenced 6 million pounds. But they only referenced the english media.

havent read anywhere that mentioned 15.

I have seen others reporting that a russian club were willing to pay 15 million but no statement thats what Brighton paid

Well, there was talk during the winter break Zenith had put in an offer of around that amount.
PSV is a bit in the **** now they got kicked out of Europa by the mighty NK Osijek last week. They had a €6 million income in their budget as it comes to EL but i think playing only 1 round has costed them money.
So they had to cover that 6 million with something.
Sold a few guys they had massive salaries (for Dutch standards) and got mexican Lozano in on some weird deal. Huge sell on fee which means they have to sell him for 35 in order to make as much money as his old club does. 17 million to break even.

eh i dunno wrote: »

What's he like infor? Any views on klassan at Everton? Looks decent technically from the few Everton games I've seen but think he might struggle with the pace of the Premier league

Never really rated Klaassen and i think 27 million is about 2x too much.
As it come to never rating him... that is relative to the guys who played before him in his position.
Cant imagine Everton selling him on to clubs above them in 2 or 3 years. or Everton making the jump into the top 4 because of him.
Was always useful for Ajax as every season he had spells of games where he would score the winning goal in matches they shouldnt have won.
If he can do that for Everton too, he ll be closer to being worth that money they paid for him.

He is seen as the example for even younger players in Holland for not going abroad too soon.
But to be honest, had he been wanted by big clubs in the last 2 or 3 seasons he would have gone as well.
From all the interested clubs over the years, Everton is about the only one worth going without a risk of going down after season 1.

Which Propper does have with Brighton of course.
I think he can be better than what he have been doing last season where PSV was just ... meh.

Will he go the path of Wijnaldum or Fer...... (Move on to better places after relegation with your first club in the PL or moving from 1 relegation team to another for years). My guess it is the "Fer" route. Or worse, the Vernon Girlsname. Relegate and never see the PL again.

rob316

Mourinho talking up Bale. Cracking player but wouldn't it take an astonishing amount of money to buy a player who has been injured something like 20 times since joining Real.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Mourinho talking up Bale. Cracking player but wouldn't it take an astonishing amount of money to buy a player who has been injured something like 20 times since joining Real.

His release clause is 75 million I believe.
Which isn't that much in todays market.
Injuries are a concern yes, and it's most specifically ankle injuries that continue to re-occur.

JaMarcusHustle

M!Ck^ wrote: »

His release clause is 75 million I believe.

I find that very hard to believe. Plenty of sources online saying his release clause ranges anywhere from between €500m to €900m.

There's no way his release clause is only €75m. Sure that's less than they paid for him.

JaMarcusHustle

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe. Plenty of sources online saying his release clause ranges anywhere from between €500m to €900m.

There's no way his release clause is only €75m. Sure that's less than they paid for him.

I just searched that. Rumors it was put into his new contract last year.
Interesting question: Should the exact figure not be public knowledge in this case?
How do clubs know what the clause is before they make an approach for a player if it's not public information?

JaMarcusHustle

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I just searched that. Rumors it was put into his new contract last year.
Interesting question: Should the exact figure not be public knowledge in this case?
How do clubs know what the clause is before they make an approach for a player if it's not public information?

All those €75m rumours though look to be from 2015. He signed a new contract around this time last year, I imagine any €75m release clause (if it ever existed) was likely increased ten-fold.

I also imagine any club looking to meet a release clause for a player would be in contact with their agent to find out exactly how much it would take before making any bid.

gimli2112

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I just searched that. Rumors it was put into his new contract last year.
Interesting question: Should the exact figure not be public knowledge in this case?
How do clubs know what the clause is before they make an approach for a player if it's not public information?

I'd imagine it's a very short conversation between the buying club and the player's agent.

The Talking Bread

I dont know much about it as the significance of it all is really only starting to emerge in these huge transfers but looking at a supposed RC of 500 million, there would have to be situation's where such clause does not have to be met anyway.

There is no way Bale or his agent would have allowed for that high a release clause if this was the case. There has to be a meeting of minds during contract negotiations.

Putting such a release clause in is basically holding him in "a contractual hostage situation " until his contract runs out as let's be honest noone is going to pay that.
There obviously are Ts & Cs to it all.

I very much doubt he is going anywhere anyway.

TitianGerm

The Talking Bread wrote: »

There is no way Bale or his agent would have allowed for that high a release clause if this was the case.

Unless he was happy to stay put and had no intention of moving?

wally79

What I don't understand is if you're going to put a (supposedly unattainable) 500m or 1b release clause why not just ditch the release clause altogether

Amirani

wally79 wrote: »

What I don't understand is if you're going to put a (supposedly unattainable) 500m or 1b release clause why not just ditch the release clause altogether

Think they may be mandatory in Spanish contracts?

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

I'd imagine it's a very short conversation between the buying club and the player's agent.

Thanks. Yea, my question may have come across odd but I genuinely wasn't sure.

Trigger

"Barca are already in England to try sign Coutinho"

https://twitter.com/mundodeportivo/status/894834915283533824

The Talking Bread

emmetkenny wrote: »

Unless he was happy to stay put and had no intention of moving?

.........you are completely missing the point.

Yes but surely anyone with half a brain would acknowledge that this "happy to stay put " mantra may change before his contract has ran out in 2022 and the possibility he may not be getting any football 2, maye even a year inot this contract . They would hence, have to consider the terms of the contract so as that they can move on if things go that way.

This season is huge for Bale if he stays at Madrid.

Agreeing to a buyout clause which will never be met makes no sense to a top class player like Bale unless there are terms on this clause which would allow for such a scenario

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

.........you are completely missing the point.

Yes but surely anyone with half a brain would acknowledge that this "happy to stay put " mantra may change before his contract has ran out in 2022 and the possibility he may not be getting any football. They would hence, have to consider the terms of the contract so as that they can move on if things go that way.

Agreeing to a buyout clause which will never be met makes no sense to a top class player like Bale unless there are terms on this clause which would allow for such a scenario

Lots of players agree to contracts with no buyout clauses. The fact that Bale has a buyout clause at all is likely due to the fact that it is mandatory in Spanish law.

The Talking Bread

irelandrover wrote: »

Lots of players agree to contracts with no buyout clauses. The fact that Bale has a buyout clause at all is likely due to the fact that it is mandatory in Spanish law.

I am not saying he didn't agree to it. It is a contract and both parties have to agree to the terms. Hence what I mean by saying that putting an impossible to meet Buy out clause on his contract without any terms wherein the this whole amount would not have to be met, in certain circumstances is in a players best interest. 5 years is a long time. Bale having no realistic control in his own destiny in the interim makes no sense.

I am merely saying that a clause like that would have certain terms and conditions. Certain factors like game time would have an impact I would imagine on a player like Bale's contract.
There has to be, like any contract, reasonable terms and terms which simply dictate that the player MUST stay beyond his will (a reasonable thing to stay considering the cost of the buyout clause) until 2022 would be questioned in any arbitration process if Bale isn't getting game time and is extremely unhappy but Real want to keep him regardless.

Maybe there is some sort of a release clause attached to Bales contract also due to this above scenario.

I am sure there is also a clause where the club can agree to sell the player if he wants to go and he is surplus to requirement for them wherein the whole of the B.O.C. would not have to be met

In Spain the PLAYER himself must play the release clause. Which then is transferred (or part thereof) by the buying club to the player himself. I don't know why that is the rule but I imagine it is due to the fact the contract is a 2 party legal agreement. So it still gives the player that power. I imagine, like the buyout clause, such a release clause would have to have terms where this immense figure does not have to be met in full.


Again, I am no expert, but if any experts in the area are here, feel free to explain the system in a precise manner as it is very interesting for a player like Bale, considering his value as a first team player is slightly diminishing for Real at the minute. Something I am sure has left him frustrated, especially considering heknows there isn't a way out unless he pays this extortionate B.O.C. / R.C,

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am not saying he didn't agree to it. It is a contract and both parties have to agree to the terms. Hence what I mean by saying that putting an impossible to meet Buy out clause on his contract without any terms wherein the this whole amount would not have to be met, in certain circumstances is in a players best interest. 5 years is a long time. Bale having no realistic control in his own destiny in the interim makes no sense.

Of course the club can accept less than the buyout clause. You keep saying that Bale wouldnt agree to a contract with an unrealistic buyout clause. In most countries in Europe there is no legal requirement for a buyout clause in a players contract. Therefore lots of players agree to contracts where they have no get out at all except for running down there contract.

Bale signed a contract before with Spurs that had no buyout clause. What makes you think he wouldnt sign one that had a high release clause?

The Talking Bread

irelandrover wrote: »

Of course the club can accept less than the buyout clause. You keep saying that Bale wouldnt agree to a contract with an unrealistic buyout clause. In most countries in Europe there is no legal requirement for a buyout clause in a players contract. Therefore lots of players agree to contracts where they have no get out at all except for running down there contract.

Bale signed a contract before with Spurs that had no buyout clause. What makes you think he wouldnt sign one that had a high release clause?

I never said "he wouldnt sign one that had a high release clause"

I merely said that he and his agent would have negotiated certain terms on such an unreachable clause. It isn't that hard to understand. Contracts aren't just cut aand dry. I am sure Buy Out Clauses have plenty of terms attached to them also.
Neymars was diffrent perhaps in this regard as the club were desperate to keep him and he couldn't make the argument that he wasn't a guaranteed first team player, I am sure Bale may have contemplated such a term when agreeing to this.

Otherwise he isn't the brightest as surely he doesn't want a scenario when he is nothing but a periphery player kept by the club on the bench who merely want to keep him in reserve. Yet Bale has no control of this in any realistic way for 5 years.
if a club doesn't want to sell due to such a scenario, I am sure there is, like any employment law route, an arbitration process where Bale could argue some elements.
If the club who has the player’s registration refuse to release him, then it is likely an arbitration process would follow between the two clubs to assess the validity of the release clause.
There may be an issue with a release clause if the clause was so high that it was far beyond the market value of the player. Bales market value is not 500 million, hence why there would have to be certain terms attached to the clause.

I am just making a suggestion based on some sort of logic. You are refuting it. Fair enough.

The Talking Bread

I don't want to get into an arguing for the sake of arguing scenario as neither of us is 100% certain what terms can be attached to these clauses, lets be honest, but I will have a look later as it is, as I said an interesting topic, relating to Bale.

Cantona's Collars

The Standard:

#cfc's chief negotiator has travelled away from the Bridge to work on deals as club plan move for #LCFC's Drinkwater.

POKERKING

zerks wrote: »

The Standard:

#cfc's chief negotiator has travelled away from the Bridge to work on deals as club plan move for #LCFC's Drinkwater.

If chelsea arent careful they could end up like city the year after they won the league the first time with a bunch of mediocre signings.

The Talking Bread

Chelsea's squad really needs 4 or 5 decent players. Back in Champ League this season and have only really placed like for like with (to a point) Morata (assuming Costa leaves), Bakayoko (Matic), Rudiger/Zouma (returning from loan) (Terry and Ake) and Cuadradio and a few more squad periphery midfielders have only really been replaced with average players returning from loan who will likely leave anyway.

Looks like Conte is pretty p*ssed off with it all anyway, especially considering he didn't seem to have much say in Matic's departure

Lukker-

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Chelsea's squad really needs 4 or 5 decent players. Back in Champ League this season and have only really placed like for like with (to a point) Morata (assuming Costa leaves), Bakayoko (Matic), Rudiger/Zouma (returning from loan) (Terry and Ake) and Cuadradio and a few more squad periphery midfielders have only really been replaced with average players returning from loan who will likely leave anyway.

Looks like Conte is pretty p*ssed off with it all anyway, especially considering he didn't seem to have much say in Matic's departure

He was the one who left Matic behind from the tour, it was just that he preferred to sell to a foreign club.

Of course, Matic preferred United most likely because he was getting a 50% pay rise over what he got at Chelsea and Juve could at best probably only match what Chelsea were currently paying him.

United were willing to pay more in both transfer fee and wages, and the key factor was Abramovich, if you earn his gratitude and help him win titles, he will let you go if you want a change of scenery, even if it's to a direct rival like we have seen with both Cech and Mata.

It doesn't make the most sense from a competetitive POV, but from a human perspective Roman builds strong relationships with players who deliver and he just sees it as fair dues, obviously to the annoyance of managers.

GavRedKing

POKERKING wrote: »

If chelsea arent careful they could end up like city the year after they won the league the first time with a bunch of mediocre signings.

Every time we've won the league, we've failed to strengthen in the right, key areas, this will be nothing new, the boom/bust cycle is something Chelsea have down to a fine art at this stage. :pac:

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Chelsea's squad really needs 4 or 5 decent players. Back in Champ League this season and have only really placed like for like with (to a point) Morata (assuming Costa leaves), Bakayoko (Matic), Rudiger/Zouma (returning from loan) (Terry and Ake) and Cuadradio and a few more squad periphery midfielders have only really been replaced with average players returning from loan who will likely leave anyway.

Looks like Conte is pretty p*ssed off with it all anyway, especially considering he didn't seem to have much say in Matic's departure

3 players is the minimum I'd expect to come in, a WB, CM and a CF, maybe a winger too. There'll probably be another 2 loans from the current squad, Baker and Kenedy, I'd guess. If we get another CF, Remy will be sold/loaned before the end of the window.

Matic was always leaving, he didnt train with the team after they met back up for pre-season or go on the tour. Juventus was meant to be his destination but if Matic doesnt want to go to Italy or Juventus werent offering as muchmoney, theres not much Conte or the club can do at that stage.

pjohnson

I didn't hear money being used to explain Matic move before. Just seemed a good safe career move for him.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Zizouology/status/894904525080875012

"BREAKING: ESPN Brasil now reporting that Coutinho has asked Klopp to allow him to join Barcelona and his staff is pressing for an agreement."

The Talking Bread

Lukker- wrote: »

He was the one who left Matic behind from the tour, it was just that he preferred to sell to a foreign club.

That's what I meant really. He had no say really as to where he went as surely he knew selling hi to a rival club will only strengthen them, especially considering the positive impact it could have on Pogba and Herrera's roles in the team (freeing them up more)

Similarly to Mata I guess. R.A. often overlooks this to a certain degree

ThunbergsAreGo

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Zizouology/status/894904525080875012

"BREAKING: ESPN Brasil now reporting that Coutinho has asked Klopp to allow him to join Barcelona and his staff is pressing for an agreement."

I think they have reported that everyday for the last week

Andersonisgod

Excitement is building, lots of reputable sources say Barca have sent their negotiators to England to close the Coutinho deal, however they've stopped off in Germany first to close the Dembele deal. Imagine the scenes if Barca get their 3 targets.

TitianGerm

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Excitement is building, lots of reputable sources say Barca have sent their negotiators to England to close the Coutinho deal, however they've stopped off in Germany first to close the Dembele deal. Imagine the scenes if Barca get their 3 targets.

Still won't be as much of a circus as when Neymar left.

GavRedKing

Duncan Castles is saying Coutinho wants a move and is doing "very little training" in order to force a move after talking with Klopp.

Castles is the kind of guy that if he tells you its Tuesday, you'd check the calendar.

He comes up with a lot of whoppers and is nothing but a Jose mouth piece, or pro any club Jose is with, happened a lot at Chelsea and when he went to Utd, its happened there too, while taking the chance to deride Chelsea.

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Excitement is building, lots of reputable sources say Barca have sent their negotiators to England to close the Coutinho deal, however they've stopped off in Germany first to close the Dembele deal. Imagine the scenes if Barca get their 3 targets.

This Neymar deal has shook you to the point where your trolling is getting worse and worse!!

You are losing the bit of subtlety you once had!

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

Duncan Castles is saying Coutinho wants a move and is doing "very little training" in order to force a move after talking with Klopp.

Castles is the kind of guy that if he tells you its Tuesday, you'd check the calendar.

He comes up with a lot of whoppers and is nothing but a Jose mouth piece, or pro any club Jose is with, happened a lot at Chelsea and when he went to Utd, its happened there too, while taking the chance to deride Chelsea.

If Castles is writing some articles then what you said makes sense. He is reporting some transfer news (which has nothing to do with ManUtd, Jose), same news other journalists also reported, someone from Brazil reported Coutinho wants to push the deal.

GavRedKing

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Excitement is building, lots of reputable sources say Barca have sent their negotiators to England to close the Coutinho deal, however they've stopped off in Germany first to close the Dembele deal. Imagine the scenes if Barca get their 3 targets.

Theyed be spending all of the Neymar money and then some, on those 3 players.

At some stage theres a trade off between quality and quantity, theres no doubt the squad need the quantity but they wont replace Neymars output with any of the those players mentioned.

Andersonisgod

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This Neymar deal has shook you to the point where your trolling is getting worse and worse!!

You are losing the bit of subtlety you once had!

That's a report from Rac1 this morning. Gerard Romero also says Barca delegation currently in Germany to finalise Dembele before going to England for Coutinho. Both excellent sources, neither are trolls.

pjohnson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's a report from Rac1 this morning. Gerard Romero also says Barca delegation currently in Germany to finalise Dembele before going to England for Coutinho. Both excellent sources, neither are trolls.

Are they as good a source as Gerard Pique?

TitianGerm

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This Neymar deal has shook you to the point where your trolling is getting worse and worse!!

You are losing the bit of subtlety you once had!

What if AIG is actually the guy who cuts el presidente Piques dogs hair? He could have the inside track and Pique is updating him from the plane

Andersonisgod

GavRedKing wrote: »

Theyed be spending all of the Neymar money and then some, on those 3 players.

At some stage theres a trade off between quality and quantity, theres no doubt the squad need the quantity but they wont replace Neymars output with any of the those players mentioned.

I don't agree. Dembele is very young and was close to Neymar's numbers last season playing in an inferior team. Coutinho is being signed as an eventual replacement to Iniesta.

Andersonisgod

emmetkenny wrote: »

What if AIG is actually the guy who cuts el presidente Piques dogs hair? He could have the inside track and Pique is updating him from the plane

I've literally already posted the sources of the story. Do keep up.

GavRedKing

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If Castles is writing some articles then what you said makes sense. He is reporting some transfer news (which has nothing to do with ManUtd, Jose), same news other journalists also reported, someone from Brazil reported Coutinho wants to push the deal.

I just dont like Castles

I do think Coutinho will go to Barca though, it might not be this year as I think Liverpool would be stupid to sell him now, they dont need too and theyve done f**k all business and have failed in getting Van Djik and Keita so giving them circa 100m for Coutinho would do them no favours in replacing him with any player of quality, but in the near future I think he will be off to Barca.

I wonder will Barca president elect Pique, give us an update on the transfer targets over the coming weeks.

Giggsy11

Underrating of Neymar, overrating of Barca linked player starts.

Andersonisgod

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Underrating of Neymar, overrating of Barca linked player starts.

Hilarious given the amount of posters on here that said he was poor, or worse, last season. Incredible flip flopping.

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

I just dont like Castles

I do think Coutinho will go to Barca though, it might not be this year as I think Liverpool would be stupid to sell him now, they dont need too and theyve done f**k all business and have failed in getting Van Djik and Keita so giving them circa 100m for Coutinho would do them no favours in replacing him with any player of quality, but in the near future I think he will be off to Barca.

I wonder will Barca president elect Pique, give us an update on the transfer targets over the coming weeks.

My exact thinking, that Coutinho won't be sold this season but might go next season. Saying that if Barca puts pressure on Coutinho that it's now or never then who knows, player might push for the transfer (at least as per some journalists in Brazil).

Hopefully this will develop in to big saga

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Hilarious given the amount of posters on here that said he was poor, or worse, last season. Incredible flip flopping.

Who said he was poor? I don't know, at least I didn't. But what I know is you doing complete 180 degree on Neymar.

Not surprised though, it's comes naturally.

TitianGerm

Giggsy11 wrote: »

My exact thinking, that Coutinho won't be sold this season but might go next season. Saying that if Barca puts pressure on Coutinho that it's now or never then who knows, player might push for the transfer (at least as per some journalists in Brazil).

Hopefully this will develop in to big saga

I doubt he'll go this summer but he will eventually go to Barca. Most likely next summer unless Liverpool win something.

pjohnson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Hilarious given the amount of posters on here that said he was poor, or worse, last season. Incredible flip flopping.

Are you trying to complain over people flip flopping? Didya walk past a mirror lately?